Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[_clinton]

Here is the list so far btw because I noticed some errors…along with a few comments...feel free to check...

Mario 3
Luigi 1
Peach
Bowser 2
DK -1
Diddy
Yoshi -2
Wario -2 (Diddy, DK (how is DK stronger again?), and Pikachu…loses)
Link 1
Zelda -1
Ganondorf 4
Tink
Yink (BS loses, Yink is packing world destroying power in Zelda: MM)
Samus 4
Zamus -2
Pit
Ice Climbers -3
ROB -4
Kirby -2
MK
D3 -2
Olimar -3 (Still don’t agree with Pichu)
Fox 3
Falco 1
Wolf 1
Falcon -2 (Losing to Diddy and Wolf is still BS)
Pikachu
Pichu -2
Pokemon Trainer (How is someone who is packing the stuff he has losing?)
Lucario
Jigglypuff -2
Mewtwo 2
Marth -1
Ike 4 (BS Sonic one)
Roy
Ness 3 (The draw with Peach is BS)
Lucas (Lucas has had Falco, Bowser (BS), Samus (BS), Kirby, MK (BS), and ROB)
G&W -4
Sonic 3
Snake 1

_clinton, there's something called an edit button. Maybe you should use it.

Funny...I do use it for the most part...however, when I think a post might be getting too long and isn't fully directed at one person...I think just making a new post is somewhat easier sometimes...

Paint making Lucas cry uncontrollably would really mess him up. Paint is a one time use though so it can't really be spammed.

4 PP sure is a lot to waste curing the eye sight issue...and yes...Fassad is awesome as hell...by far has some of the best lines in that game ^_^

Plus the whole fact that Itoi shows how his bad guys aren't 100% evil comes out with him in the end IMO pretty well...

 

[Samochan]

Lucas losing = BS

That's the gist what clinton is saying. =)

 

[PowerBomb]

He doesn't. :/

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Cyrus

All his dialogue is here, he makes no mention of it.

So I'm itching to know where does the "pokeballs nerf pokemon" come from.

I already posted it...

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Red_Chain

Unless it's basically from the fact that they aren't using their pwnage powers when you use them in battle. xD If the limitation is there, it should be up to the trainer how that limitation is used. Arceus and Celebi can use their powers well enough even when captured by trainer. But I guess if there weren't any limiter, the pokes could just as easily accidentally do major damage.

*shrugs*

Well that's kinda curious. Personally I haven't played PMD, though I probably should. I have to see those myself though, but if it were flying type for example (liek legendary birds, latias & latios or otherwise in pokemon canon depicted to be capable of flight/levitation/float), then it shouldn't be no problem. Ninetails is kinda funny though, but she's mystical enough as it is lol.

And doesn't Kecleon do that chameleon thingy, making it seem like he warps around?

Latias isn't a boss. Her brother is. Kecleon doesn't do a chameleon thing, the game says 'Kecleon warped!' and then he... 'floats'.

Lucas losing = BS

That's the gist what clinton is saying. =)

Obviously. Not really warranting a comment though

 

[missingnomaster]

The reason Pokemon Trainer loses a lot despite his incredible power is because of how terribly weak he is himself. Most characters in the list can kill him with only one attack. That also forces him to limit his strategies since protecting himself is of greatest importance unless he can dispatch his foe before they can dispatch him.


Powerbomb: Bulbapedia isn't infallible if it's proven wrong.

 

[§leepy God]

Lucas losing = BS

That's the gist what clinton is saying. =)

♪ That might be, but I kind of do agree with him with some of the match up's from Lucas like Falco, Samus, and Bowser. †

 

[PowerBomb]

The reason Pokemon Trainer loses a lot despite his incredible power is because of how terribly weak he is himself. Most characters in the list can kill him with only one attack. That also forces him to limit his strategies since protecting himself is of greatest importance unless he can dispatch his foe before they can dispatch him.


Powerbomb: Bulbapedia isn't infallible if it's proven wrong.

This.

So I wonder where that Poke Ball bit came from? I know it's not the anime, but where is it stated?

EDIT: Well, it's stated on the Poke Ball page. http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Poké_Ball
Not very helpful though.

 

[_clinton]

Lucas losing = BS

That's the gist what clinton is saying. =)

Did you even read the comment?

Lucas has had 6 match ups in case you didn't get that...he has an even number of wins and loses so far...

Even though he could just blast MK's ship down out of the sky, and MK can't attack him w/o his ship taking damage/him taking damage himself...because everything he can do...the power shield has in one way or another shown to protect vs. it...

Plus I don't see how PK Flash wouldn't **** with MK itself...

Hell...it's the same idea that was for Falco...

So...even though the match ups with Samus and Bowser are **** (I still like the logic for limiting Lucas' power but allowing things like the Star Rod, Phazon Beam, and Triforce parts...all which are either more restricted in the end than what Lucas has or just flat out taken away) it is still considered a tie total...

 

[PowerBomb]

Samus wasn't using the Phazon Beam vs. Lucas. I don't think she was, anyway.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Raizen? did say he'll redo every match-up as one before the finals.

 

[missingnomaster]

The Phazon Beam was brought up several times.

 

[_clinton]

The reason Pokemon Trainer loses a lot despite his incredible power is because of how terribly weak he is himself. Most characters in the list can kill him with only one attack. That also forces him to limit his strategies since protecting himself is of greatest importance unless he can dispatch his foe before they can dispatch him.

Yes...because even though he has things that that in someway have said they move at the speed of sound or so and more in some way...and are large enough to carry him w/o much trouble...

He will have issues with protecting himself...lets look at his options of fast movement...in various ways

By Ground...above or below even...above is faster of course it seems
By Sea...again above or below...
By Sky
By Teleporting around

 

[PowerBomb]

The Phazon Beam was brought up several times.

I didn't think she needed it. Oh well.

Yes...because even though he has things that that in someway have said they move at the speed of sound or so and more in some way...and are large enough to carry him w/o much trouble...

He will have issues with protecting himself...lets look at his options of fast movement...in various ways

By Ground...above or below even...above is faster of course it seems
By Sea...again above or below...
By Sky
By Teleporting around

There wouldn't exactly be water in the battlefield. And uh, he has a huge problem with starting out against some characters. Which ones do you have a problem with?

 

[_clinton]

Raizen? did say he'll redo every match-up as one before the finals.

Meh...fine then...it would seem better to do that anyway...

I still think some things like DK vs. Wario should be talked about again anyway as well...

 

[missingnomaster]

Yes...because even though he has things that that in someway have said they move at the speed of sound or so and more in some way...and are large enough to carry him w/o much trouble...

He will have issues with protecting himself...lets look at his options of fast movement...in various ways

By Ground...above or below even...above is faster of course it seems
By Sea...again above or below...
By Sky
By Teleporting around

Most people disagree with using the Pokedex. He is also limited by the speed at which he can command those pokemon.

Teleporting with pokemon is mega slow btw.

 

[_clinton]

Most people disagree with using the Pokedex.

So what...there are plenty of things talked about in the pokedex that happen in the games themselves...Lake of Rage is said to have been caused by Gyarados by more people than just said kid you are playing as...The three dogs being reborn because of Ho-Oh happens right in front of the trainer's eyes for that game as well...
I could probably hunt for more things as well if I wanted to...but I'm lazy like that ^_^

He is also limited by the speed at which he can command those pokemon.

I'm pretty sure some of them look build to take his weight w/o being affected much (Pidgeot for example, Rapidash is another one)

Teleporting with pokemon is mega slow btw.

How so? On the screen for the battle in these games it looks like it happens in the same round as any other move...

 

[missingnomaster]

So what...there are plenty of things talked about in the pokedex that happen in the games themselves...Lake of Rage is said to have been caused by Gyarados by more people than just said kid you are playing as...The three dogs being reborn because of Ho-Oh happens right in front of the trainer's eyes for that game as well...
I could probably hunt for more things as well if I wanted to...but I'm lazy like that ^_^
~~~


I'm pretty sure some of them look build to take his weight w/o being affected much (Pidgeot for example, Rapidash is another one)

~~~

How so? On the screen for the battle in these games it looks like it happens in the same round as any other move...

Yet the Pokedex also says such things as Charizard's fire being able to melt anything, Tyranitar's body not being able to be harmed by any attack, and Dusclops being able to absorb any object, however large it may be.

I hope you're noticing the paradox that results from Charizard and Tyranitar, and the stupidity that results from Dusclops being able to absorb the entire planet.
~~~
I meant that he still has to command the pokemon, which slows things down.
~~~
The pokemon is only teleporting itself when used in battle. It takes much longer when Red is teleported as well.

 

[PowerBomb]

So what...there are plenty of things talked about in the pokedex that happen in the games themselves...Lake of Rage is said to have been caused by Gyarados by more people than just said kid you are playing as...The three dogs being reborn because of Ho-Oh happens right in front of the trainer's eyes for that game as well...
I could probably hunt for more things as well if I wanted to...but I'm lazy like that ^_^

Don't they say 'it's said'? And Gyarados learns Thrash.
What? The dogs being reborn? NO. It does not even look like that! They 'wake up'. It looks much more like that. Ho-Oh doesn't even appear!

I'm pretty sure some of them look build to take his weight w/o being affected much (Pidgeot for example, Rapidash is another one)

It's not the weight, it's the trainer. The trainer is like...around 5 feet tall. And he's 10.

How so? On the screen for the battle in these games it looks like it happens in the same round as any other move...

Offworld, and it takes like two seconds to teleport.

EDIT: Missingno ninja'd me

 

[BSP]

...Can Ike survive big falls or not?

And since Luigi won, I don't see how peach wouldn't win.

 

[missingnomaster]

Is the ground blessed? Why would a fall be different than a club to the head/other non-blessed impact?

 

[Kewkky]

To answer mariobrouser's question... I don't think Ike would survive huge falls. But, anything can happen in the game.

Why would Samus need the Phazon beam? What's wrong with the Hyper Beam, which is also fueled by phazon?

Is the ground blessed? Why would a fall be different than a club to the head/other non-blessed impact?

The "impact" you added in the end was enough for me to stop my need to troll. Without it, I would've been unrelenting. :D

 

[missingnomaster]

To answer mariobrouser's question... I don't think Ike would survive huge falls. But, anything can happen in the game.

Why would Samus need the Phazon beam? What's wrong with the Hyper Beam, which is also fueled by phazon?

By Phazon Beam, we meant MP3 Hyper Beam. Phazon Beam is more descriptive and a different Hyper Beam already exists in Super Metroid.

 

[BSP]

Is the ground blessed? Why would a fall be different than a club to the head/other non-blessed impact?

So ike's whole body is blessed, or has he shown immunity to huge falls?

 

[missingnomaster]

So ike's whole body is blessed, or has he shown immunity to huge falls?

I don't really know that. But I don't see why only his armor would be blessed.

 

[_clinton]

Yet the Pokedex also says such things as Charizard's fire being able to melt anything, Tyranitar's body not being able to be harmed by any attack, and Dusclops being able to absorb any object, however large it may be.

So...you are going to ignore everything that happens in these games or at least more than just a few parts of these game's canon story just because some parts of the pokedex for other pokemon are very (very) vague in their descriptions.

And it seems to be done on purpose I might add…some of info in the pokedex contradict other entries in it the same way Metroid Fusion’s definition of what Speed Booster was contradicted Super Metroid’s simple “high speeds with lol invinciblity” definition.

the stupidity that results from Dusclops being able to absorb the entire planet.

Sort of like Samus being invincible just because she can run fast I guess huh?

I meant that he still has to command the pokemon, which slows things down.

Serious moment here…

Fair enough reason I guess…

The pokemon is only teleporting itself when used in battle. It takes much longer when Red is teleported as well.[/QUOTE]

Please show…it’s been a while sense I’ve played a pokemon game…

What? The dogs being reborn? NO. It does not even look like that! They 'wake up'. It looks much more like that. Ho-Oh doesn't even appear!

I'm just quoiting off of the pokemon wiki for that area...and part of the reason it says that they are reborn is because they were caught in the tower when it burned to the ground in the game itself (as in before your character showed up)

I guess I could go hunt for a game script again...

 

[PowerBomb]

Ho-Oh doesn't even appear. No, it doesn't happen.

EDIT: If game script was followed in POKEMON to the extreme, it's like re-quoting the Pokedex.

 

[Kewkky]

Sort of like Samus being invincible just because she can run fast I guess huh?

If the Super Metroid game says Samus is invincible while Speed Boosting, and when you Speed Boost in the Super Metroid game nothing can hit you, then what the hell's so hard to understand?

Look, let me look for the exact description...

The Speed Booster, as the name suggests, will greatly increase Samus's speed whilst she runs. She also becomes invincible, as noted in the Super Metroid Instruction Manual, p. 24.

The manual says it is, and this website confirms it even more so. How can you keep denying that it makes Samus invincible? Get it through your thick skull.


By the way, the Screw Attack in Super Metroid makes you invincible.

It also enables her to jump off special Wall Jump Surfaces, similar to her Wall Jump ability in post-Metroid II 2D games. While Samus is performing this form of the Screw Attack she is granted an immunity to damage or "invincibility".

Super Metroid is a post-Metroid 2 game, so it has THAT version of the Screw Attack. It gives her invincibility.

Video proof that the Screw Attack goes through enemy attacks

Think about it... If Samus can go straight through enemy attacks as if they were nothing, yet touching bosses hurts her (does the same damage as touching them with no screw attack, and does less damage than touching the fireballs with no screw attack), then it MUST be a game mechanic designed to make it so that you can't Screw attack your way to victory in the boss fights. She is still invincible.

 

[missingnomaster]

By the way, the Screw Attack in Super Metroid makes you invincible.

Super Metroid is a post-Metroid 2 game, so it has THAT version of the Screw Attack. It gives her invincibility.

Video proof that the Screw Attack goes through enemy attacks

Think about it... If Samus can go straight through enemy attacks as if they were nothing, yet touching bosses hurts her (does the same damage as touching them with no screw attack, and does less damage than touching the fireballs with no screw attack), then it MUST be a game mechanic designed to make it so that you can't Screw attack your way to victory in the boss fights. She is still invincible.

I don't know if it really matters, but against Mother Brain, the blue circular attack she uses hits Samus out of the Screw Attack, while the red beams she fires from her arms do not. Though since the red beams are much more powerful, I don't know what to think of it.

So...you are going to ignore everything that happens in these games or at least more than just a few parts of these game's canon story just because some parts of the pokedex for other pokemon are very (very) vague in their descriptions.
~~~
And it seems to be done on purpose I might add…some of info in the pokedex contradict other entries in it the same way Metroid Fusion’s definition of what Speed Booster was contradicted Super Metroid’s simple “high speeds with lol invinciblity” definition.

~~~

Sort of like Samus being invincible just because she can run fast I guess huh?



Serious moment here…

Fair enough reason I guess…

The pokemon is only teleporting itself when used in battle. It takes much longer when Red is teleported as well.
~~~
Please show…it’s been a while sense I’ve played a pokemon game…


~~~
I'm just quoiting off of the pokemon wiki for that area...and part of the reason it says that they are reborn is because they were caught in the tower when it burned to the ground in the game itself (as in before your character showed up)

I guess I could go hunt for a game script again...

The fact that their is a paradoxical contradiction proves that the Pokedex isn't infallible. Obviously it is correct when proven, but otherwise, it's hard to take its word.
~~~
That was not a contradiction. One manual says that it is invincible, while the other fails to mention the invincibility, yet adds super sonic speed to the description. It would only have been a contradiction if one of the manuals said that the Speed Booster wasn't invincible.
~~~
Your searching skills are as good as mine. I don't have a good way of recording a video myself. I can tell you that when used out of battle, PT spins around in place for a couple of seconds before teleporting.

 

[REL38]

Late, but w/e.

Lucas didn’t destroy the world at the end for the last time…

Remember…The island was only there in the 1st place because the power was protecting it…with the power being transferred over to Lucas…the one thing that was protecting the island was no longer there…so of course it’s going to suffer the same fate that the rest of the world did (being destroyed)

Hmm . . . okay.
So the Needles are the only thing that keeps the Island/world whole, correct?

So the fact that the game flat out stats that the dragon and the user are reflected onto each other because of PK Love being the power of the dragon isn’t enough proof for you that Lucas did it then?

The fact that the Dragon reflects the user suggests that the Dragon is the one recreating the world/islands.

A good heart = rebuild
A bad heart = destruction alone.
(All Needles being pulled takes away from the Isles/world power source which causes it to be destroyed regardless of a good or bad heart)

Lucas and Claus are the only ones capable of pulling the Needles because they posses the ability of PK Love which is, metaphorically, the key to opening the locks, correct?
That does not mean that they recieved the power of the Dragon, piece by piece, unless the Dragon actually the Seven Needles.

The Dragon and the Needles are seperate entities. The Needles boosted PK Love alone (no other stat or ability at all) and whoever has possession of the most PK Love (aka Needle upgrades) is the one whose heart reflects whether or not the world is rebuilt or not, according to the Dragon.

PK Love is transfered from the dying Claus to Lucas so he can have it. This would only boost the power of PK Love, not any other stat or ability.
This is giving Lucas the highest power of PK Love (once he pulls the final Needle) which is showing the Dragon that, without any opposition (being the amount of Needles pulled by a bad heart), the Isles/world are to be recreated according to the heart of Lucas, who has the most power of PK Love residing within.
The Dragon reflects the good heart and recreates the world.
Not Lucas.
The Isles/world are destroyed anyway because the seal that gives the land power is hearby gone after the final Needle is pulled, but because of Lucas' good heart, the Dragon rebuilds the destroyed land because he bears the most PK Love which is symbolizing the pulled Needles.

Lucas indirectly assisted in recreating the world. The Dragon recreated the world because of Lucas' good heart. The only power Lucas got from the Dragon were the power upgrades of each Needle that went to PK Love.

The Dragon and the Needles are seperate entities.
Lucas only has the fullest power of PK Love and only PK Love.
Nothing less, nothing more.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/file/914622/42740

”Lucas, someone besides yourself removed this needle. The dragon of darkness is reflected in his soul.”

PK love is pretty cool huh?

”I'm sure you already know this, but the Dragon of Darkness is said to be reflected in the hearts of those who remove the needles. The strength within strength, the darkness within darkness and the light within light, will enter your soul.”

If you don’t think Lucas didn’t gain the power…I’m sorry but I have to disagree with you when the game stats that the power will enter you…

PK Love is where this power is reflected upon.
If the power of the Dragon truely was within Lucas, then he would have recieved upgrade to all of his stats after each pulled Needle. That also suggests that the Needles and Dragon are the exact same thing. If this were true, then why didn't Lucas get upgrades to all of his stats after each pulled Needle?
The Dragon is the god in Mother 3.
If the Dragon and Needles are one in the same, then I would expect every single stat be upgraded. Not just PK Love.

The Dragon reflects those who pull the Needles.
Bad Heart = no rebuilding
Good Heart = rebuilding

"Reflects"
Reflect does not mean one and the same. Only a reflection.

”To put it to ya straight...the moment Lucas pulled out that last needle, I was as scared as a baby. But, I believed in him. I believed him, but that didn't keep my body from feeling like it was going to float away with all the butterflies in my stomach. But everyone, everyone, everyone, is fine! It feels like we recovered something fantastically large."

"I just keep crying and the tears won't stop. What is this feeling?"

"It's my first time to see Kumatora cry. She looks so cute."”

I seems to me like they are aware of what Lucas did…how about that…

The destruction of the land from the last Needle being pulled is what scared the bejeevers out of em'.
The power source of the land is gone.
But the land was rebuilt because of Lucas' heart. The Dragon reflected that good heart and rebuilt the land.
Lucas was the soul reason the land was rebuilt, yes.
But he did not recreate the land himself.
The Dragon did based off of Lucas' heart.
Flint kept faith that Lucas' heart would cause the Dragon to recreate the world. The entire world was being destroyed and the only thing that would save them was Lucas' heart. Flint chose to believe that Lucas' heart would, metaphorically, be their savior.
Everything was riding on what Lucas' heart revealed, because if his heart turned out bad, then all hope was lost. But the world was indeed recreated which resulted in Flint's belief and hope, that Lucas' heart be pure, to thankfully turn out true.

-reference to Pork n' Beans- Yet…they can drive it…and it floats above the ground…

That proves that Lucas and team only managed to make it hover above the ground.
They never managed to make it fly. If they could, then the option would have been given in-game.
The Pork n' Beans could fly, but Lucas never managed to make it fly and thusly can't.

A Pn’B made by the Mr. Saturn race (as in the same people who made a device that transients time and space, and Porky’s ASC with Dr. Andonuts)

As a thank you gift for Lucas saving them from the Pig Army in chapter 7…to use it you just have to go back into the highway area by the graveyard to see it…

Oh and again…how is MK’s ship going to counter Lucas’ power shield and PK Love blasting him out of the sky?

Mr. Saturns managed great technological feats, but they got captured by the Pig Masks.
What they managed to achieve doesn't really matter :/

Lucas can't fly the Pork n' Beans. Never shown to actually be able to in-game. Only hover above the ground.
Besides, what proof do you have that PK Love will reach an airship thouasands of feet in the air.
All battles in Mother 3 are at a fighting distance away. You honestly don't expect me to believe Zombies fought Lucas 1000 feet away, do you?
Mr. Batty's flying 1000 feet in the air while you physically attack them?
I don't think so.

Didn't power shield eventually wear off or break?
Halberd has all day.

Yeah…that seems to be more or less part of the game’s humor…because the thing not only destroys any foe you come in contact with…but it slipped on a banana peel…

I hardly take that cut scene to be serious…based off some of the things Pn’B does do besides that…

Banana peel may have been humor, but it still broke from the sheer ramming force into the wall.
iirc Pn'B only managed to tear through minor enemies.

I like how you think the Halberd is the only flying foe Lucas has fought…oh and while the core reactor needs to be destroyed to take it down fully…it’s hardly the only thing Lucas can target (even though I don’t see him having any issue at all with just focusing his PSI to blow it up with PK love omega)

The wings have been shown to be open to attack for example…

Oh and again…how is MK going to hurt Lucas who is packing more than just a few defensive moves?

Mr. Batty and the Condor thing come to mind, but am I to believe Boney bites these flying enemies while they are 1000 feet in the air?
So now Lucas and team can leap tall building in a single bound?
No.
It's an RPG where characters take turns hitting each other. The flying enemies would be close to the ground for any direct attack to even hit them.
The Halberd is only shown to be destroyed when the core reactor is destroyed. The wings and turrets and whatnot can be blown to bits, but the core reactor will keep it afloat.
Again, what proof that PK Love will hit miles into the air? (or however high it is)

MK's Halberd can wait out until Lucas uses all of his PP and is left with no defense.
Shoots and done.
Lucas can't reach him while MK can keep spamming away.

The needle isn’t the power of the earth…it is only the container for the power of the earth…removing the needle only removed 1/7th of the energy that is keeping the island alive…

So the Needles are empty capsules of nothing that apparently upgrade the power of PK Love?
1/7 of the energy sounds a lot like the power of the land to me.
If they were simply capsules or containers, then why would the world be destroyed after they are all pulled?
Makes no sense.

The person who this post was 1st for said that the Chaos Emeralds > Mother’s power…

Even though both of the powers are quoted to be unlimited…

”This island co-exists with an unlimited power.

Doesn't seem like my battle here, so w/e

In regards to Bowser vs. Lucas…If you don’t think the power of the earth is a god power…I think you’d better check again…

Except Lucas doesn't have the power of a god. Only his PK Love is displayed to recieve the power of the land which was created by the god of Mother 3, the Dragon, who is indeed the god power. The power of the land kept everything in balance, sure.
Each pulled Needle gave Lucas' PK Love more power as it is used to demonstrate to the Dragon whether or not the land should be rebuilt after all of them are pulled.
Lucas only posses the power of the land, but it is not the equivilant of being god. But it does show that PK Love will be a OHKO against anyone without some form of invincibility.
PK Love Omega against Porky only did so much damage. Double it because Lucas gets 4 more Needles applied to his PK Love which makes it a OHKO in my eyes.
Maybe even more powerful than PK Rockin' . . .

Land is regarded as holy/blessed in games/fiction all the time…

Metroid Prime: Echoes
The power of Aether was in no way "holy" or "blessed".

Definately not "all the time" in works of fiction or games which doesn't make it the equivalent of, say, Ashera's blessing.

Um…yeah…you didn’t get that example each time I’ve showed it?

idk

BS…Gods have a pecking order as far as power goes…something like Zeus’ blessing would be more useful than oh say…Ares…

In Greek mythology, sure.
But this isn't Greek mythology

How is destroy/create/change everything in one thing that much harder to interpret from another thing that destroy/create/change?

Because a game will not always show the full potential of the apparent "god".
The Dragon kept the world from being destroyed again because it put Needles to keep the land fine and dandy. The Dragon also has the potential of recreating said world according to whoever has the most PK Love as it symbolized the Needles pulled.

So can the Dragon turn water into wine?
idunno
Never shown in-game;

Ashera is one of those, "you do the work while I sit here" based on what I've read here.
So does that mean she can't topple mountains?
idunno
Never shown in-game.

Stuff like PK Flash, Hypnosis, paralysis are all example of telepathic powers…oh and as far as actual canon goes…considering how Peach was just one step away from being WTF mind controlled…I’d say she is pretty limited without equipment…

She may be limited without equipment, but who cares? That isn't the point.
"So and so would suck if they didn't have this!"
Does it really matter at all?

Ness is limited to PK Flash, Hypnosis and Paralysis because they are the only examples of telepathic powers he knows. You can't just give him random stuff just because they fall under "Telepathic".
Then that means Mewtwo can do all of these exact same things that you're giving Ness.
Everyone is limited to their movesets/pools.
Ness is no exception.

Oh and TK isn’t telepathic…

Okay.

Which is more or less linked to game mechs. really…I still want proof that it protects her from more than just physical means…

My new view on the matter of the parasol.

If Ike is allowed to die by getting hurt in loopholes like not being able to breathe or attacking tiny openings in armor, then Peach should be knocked out of the parasol if hit at the feet.

Those said foes Ness fights happen to be stronger as well actually…and again…something like Starstorm being a stronger PSI than someone who can stop time (Ionia) should say something IMO…

Let me ask then, what would an enemy like Starmen be like if it were in Fire Emblem?
Would it be neigh impossible for Ike and his merceneries to even damage?

It doesn't really matter what enemies can do in their respective games. More so, just what kind of damage a character can deal and take.

Which is funny…because the powers they happen to be using are quoted to have unlimited power…

I don't even remember what you're referencing here >___>

Diddy Kong is going to be god tier then? Right…

Which is BS…because the thing that powers their invincibility happens (god power) happens to be something Ness/Lucas have access to…

Were bananas god power?
idk about Ness, but Lucas has no god power. Just the power of the land which is only displayed through PK Love which (IMO) should be a OHKO unless you're invincible.

Also, Diddy won't be too high since I don't see much any of his attacks to be very damaging.

Various arms equipment like for example one that is a product of Ness’ mind…and Ness’ natural talent by end game…

Sure.

Still want to know how not being able to talk = breaking concentration…

idk
Not really my discussion.

So…where’s Peach’s proof that she can take a beating from a giant monster?

Last I checked the single foe that gets the mega star in SPM and starts to chase everyone after becoming a giant is still going to **** Peach…

Covered by Justaway so Ima let you continue arguing it with him.

Yet…it’s proof that the Parasol isn’t invulnerable…

Hell…I’m pretty sure Peach’s entire underside is open to attack as well when using it…because landing on spikes=proof of that…

Not really my arguement anymore.
But my two cents, her underside is open, but that's on the ground.

Actually the Imperialist doesn’t always get a OHKO…plus that is for the multiplayer part of the game…I’m pretty sure the actual canon story for the game says otherwise…

I swear, the Imperialist didn't deal anymore than 170 units of damage (highest HP being 199) with a headshot.

But I don't have the game anymore so I can't say much other than doubt the OHKO.

Ok…here is the fun fact because some people don’t get it for whatever reason…

A…I’m always pointing out before I post something that is debatable that it is a theory…so I don’t know how you get off thinking I’m making things up and passing them off as fact…when I give a disclaimer/make a reference to something..

I only recall you stating certain things as "theory" only a few times, but w/e.

2nd off…Being able to destroy everything because the game’s script says the power is the power of all powers isn’t exaggerating…if you don’t like it…I’m sorry…but it is in the bloody game’s ****ing script…that isn’t theory at all ok mate? That is actually brought up in the game…

Lucas never destroyed diddly squat.
He only destroyed robots if ya wanna get technical

Lucas pulled the 7 Needles which were responsible for keeping the world from blowing up.
As a result of the last one being pulled, the balance was gone and everything was being destroyed, regardless if the one(s) pulling em' had a good or bad heart.
The Dragon based whether or not to rebuild the world based on the one who had more PK Love because the more PK Love you had, the more Needles you pulled.
The Dragon thusly rebuilt the world because Lucas had the most PK Love.
He destroyed and recreated nothing.

3rd off…concerning “mind ****” it was more or less started as just me joking around with a not very clear reference to Ness’ telepathic abilities…it’s not my fault people didn’t get it

Alrighty then.

TK =/= Telepathy…

Okay.

Oh my…another person who doesn’t understand Ness’ role in that fight…and what the prayer really did to Giygas…

Ness couldn't hurt Giygas.
Ness coulda been the "one to end all", but he couldn't even scratch Gigyas.
Enough proof that he couldn't hurt nor beat Giygas alone.

As far as match ups go…I don’t even think 50% of the characters in this thread should be used anyway…having 3 Link's is just BS when they are the same in spirit...and Ness/Lucas are in spirit the same (god...Lucas' ultimate weapon belonged to Ness people...you know....the one he picked up right before you fight Porky)

Characters like ROB, the Ice Climbers, G&W, and Pit shouldn't be talked about as well IMO...because there isn't that much data on them IMO...

The problem is, by this logic, it's no longer taking the roster from Smash, but rather making exclusions on personal opinion (well aware you said imo).
Ness and Lucas are not the same.
The 3 Links aren't either.
They posses different abilities in their respective games.
Out of the NES characters, only Pit and IC's can actually do stuff and are kept. ROB and GaymanWatch are free wins.

As far as this post goes…

A. I’ve already proven that Peach isn’t going to be putting Ness to sleep
B. Last I checked…Sleep is a piss poor status affect anyway except in the pokemon universe…and also…I’m pretty sure Ness wouldn’t stay asleep if someone was jumping on his head…

Thusly realism and gameplay clash into one another, but the Peach vs Ness isn't really my battle anymore.

 

[warpd]

Kirby gets no love

 

[BSP]

I don't really know that. But I don't see why only his armor would be blessed.

So, can anyone find whether or not Ike was blessed or his armor? Can he fall from cliffs in his game?

I laughed while typing this for some reason.

 

[warpd]

If the hole is deep enough he can't get out anyway.

 

[Lovely]

Kirby gets no love

I totally agree, I blame those who makes him sound weak because of his size. );

 

[PowerBomb]

An 8-inch rock is going to hurt if it falls on someone's head.

 

[REL38]

An 8-inch rock is going to hurt if it falls on someone's head.

For all we know, Stone Kirby can weigh 2 tons.

:/

 

[_clinton]

The manual says it is, and this website confirms it even more so. How can you keep denying that it makes Samus invincible? Get it through your thick skull.

This is what it was before November 29th, as in before this debate about it:
http://metroid.wikia.com/index.php?title=Speed_Booster&oldid=49365

Before it became this on November 29th:
http://metroid.wikia.com/index.php?title=Speed_Booster&oldid=61842

June 16th 2009 to November 29th was the time frames in between those updates…
We have been arguing about this thing for more than 10 days…
God…I think I brought up the manuals for the 1st time on post #7430 which happened on November 28th…
But I’m pretty sure it could have been earlier and even brought up by someone else…
So…why was only one thing changed about the article?

Anyway…going on…it’s not like the speed booster has been the only move in Samus’ arsenal to get a description change and overall change with the removal of a few certain words…

Have you looked at any of the other power-ups and how their descriptions changed so that they make more sense?

By the way, the Screw Attack in Super Metroid makes you invincible.

I like how you can think that…The books for Super Metroid, Metroid: Zero Mission, Original Metroid, Metroid Fusion, and Metroid 2 have no wording at all for the term of invincibility…

There isn’t even some very (very) vague thing stating invincibility for the screw attack in those things like there was for speed booster…

The fact that their is a paradoxical contradiction proves that the Pokedex isn't infallible. Obviously it is correct when proven, but otherwise, it's hard to take its word.

Well...what do you want to accept as fact then? Because I'd rather use info from there instead of "the base speed stat of such and such is 91" because it goes back to the 1st issue we had with vagueness...

How fast is 91!?

It would only have been a contradiction if one of the manuals said that the Speed Booster wasn't invincible.

Again...though...they don't talk about it at all...it hardly means they accept it though...you know...it's not like the people who made Super Metroid are the ones who translated it to English...hell it could have just been an translation error as well...

And...like I said before...considering how their one sentence descriptions have gotten better in the booklets with each game for more things than just the Speed Booster...that should mean something as well...

Plus...Samus fights foes in the various Metroid games that have "speed booster" like traits...how is she killing them again if something like the speed booster makes you invincible?

I can tell you that when used out of battle, PT spins around in place for a couple of seconds before teleporting.

So? Your character always does something before using a special move...it still isn't showing how fast/slow it is...

And...I'll answer the other book of text below this latter...

 

[PowerBomb]

For all we know, Stone Kirby can weigh 2 tons.

:/

It's still gonna hurt? :3

GUYS

The Screw Attack is not invincible. It has extremely high defensive capabilities, but it is NOT invincible. The offensive potential of it is strong enough to knock off a third of the final boss on MP:Echoes' health. So the Emperor Ing gets hurt. Pretty badly too.

EDIT: _clinton, a lot of the Pokedex doesn't actually prove its descriptions. Dialga - controlling time? Master of time? Diety?

No. It's been shown Dialga can create/destroy galaxies when used in conjunction with the Red Chain(?), but no superiority over time. And I seriously doubt every time a volcano is created a new Entei is born. One Entei runs around in the games' canon, not ____ Entei's.

Plus...Samus fights foes in the various Metroid games that have "speed booster" like traits...how is she killing them again if something like the speed booster makes you invincible?

I LOL'D
Common sense, dude. Speed booster-LIKE traits. You even said that... they might be similar, but they're not the exact same thing... except for maybe Serris, who was actually invincible when he Speed-Boosted. You had to wait 'till he stopped and then shoot him.

And uh, you can run into the vast majority of the bosses, and they'll inflict stupid touch damage regardless. It's a game mechanic, nothing proves their skin is super acidic or basic or anything of the sort. Moreover, you can roll into them while in Morph Ball or walk into them and still receive damage, so it isn't the Speed Booster speed.

 

[IsmaR]

It's been argued that there is one "legendary" Entei that was revived from something else/created by Ho-Oh, and the rest could be common Enteis(which would/could explain why they appear in Fire Red/Leaf Green if you start with Bulbasaur, Coliseum, are in the possessions of random Battle Frontier trainers, etc.)

Am I...the only one....who finds typing like this....to be...annoying?...

 

[REL38]

It's been argued that there is one "legendary" Entei that was revived from something else/created by Ho-Oh, and the rest could be common Enteis(which would/could explain why they appear in Fire Red/Leaf Green if you start with Bulbasaur, Coliseum, are in the possessions of random Battle Frontier trainers, etc.)

Am I...the only one....who finds typing like this....to be...annoying?...

If that were true, then why can't tge player catch more than one Entei during the game?

@Powerbomb
Damage wise, Stone Kirby deals good damage.
That means he's gotta have weight >__>

 

[Samochan]

EDIT: _clinton, a lot of the Pokedex doesn't actually prove its descriptions. Dialga - controlling time? Master of time? Diety?

No. It's been shown Dialga can create/destroy galaxies when used in conjunction with the Red Chain(?), but no superiority over time.

>_>

Cyrus used the Red chain to call fort Dialga & palkia and command them. And it has been shown Dialga can control time, but basically Cyrus wanted to remake the world and if you can control both space & time, that's entirely possible. Control over time, basically means he could overwrite the whole history of the world. The area in sinnoh is warping, but you cannot exacly see in which way it's warping.

It's never proven nor said dialga can destroy/create, that power belongs to arceus, the creator of the pokeverse. Cyrus also himself states Dialga, master of Time & Palkia, Master of space and so on. Pokedex + Cynthia + The library and many npc's support this.

Not forgetting you can't just pull out random things out of your arse (sorry ) like "whoa dialga does nifty stuff, he must be doing this and that" when everything else points to him doing something different. You have no proof dialga can destroy/create universe, yet you state he does and totally ignore the fact that what he actually does there is bend time. >_> That's hypocritical to the core.

--

A brick can rupture human skull when you throw it at someone. I'm fairly certain stone kirby weights more than a brick too and is even more dense.

 

[Matamune]

Its funny how Ike + Ganondorf are all low tier and crap but in actuality they would kill everyone....