Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[Diddy Kong]

There's also the Mirror Shield, but that wouldn't reflect psychic attacks.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Yea, this one look sbasically over...

 

[Diddy Kong]

Anyone know if Counter works on arrows? Are they like beams?

I'm not too sure about what pit can do.

Ness doesn't has Counter I think. Only Lucas had it. Ness' PSI shields aren't really that impressive at all, but **** the boys a fricking tank... He hardly needs it.

Looking forward on Ness vs Lucas really.

Raizen, you considering doing Assist Trophies maybe after all this?

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

@Diddy: Yeah, I probably might.

VS.

Current Match-Up:
THE CHOSEN CHILD Vs. THE SPACE WOLF

Young Link Vs. Wolf

Vs.

Round 3, Match 4.

Who will win? YOU decide!

Overall Results

Wins +3:

,

Wins +2:

, , , ,

Wins +1:

, , , , , , , , , , ,

Neutral:

:mewtwo:, ,

Loss -1:

, , , , , , , , , , , ichu:

Loss -2:

,

Loss -3:

, , ,

 

[Diddy Kong]

Hard to tell. Didn't Young Link had like... 3 full days of Nayru's Love usage? Heard so earlier in this thread. If so, Wolf's fuel will probably run out, making him having to fight Young Link on foot. If Young Link's still invincible by then, Wolf can't really do anything I guess.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

How resilient is Goron Link...and I'm sure one of his masks could do something in this match-up..

 

[Diddy Kong]

Probably, but can Young Link attack Wolf? He'll need to do so to win...

 

[Kewkky]

Come on guys, speed it up! I wanna read the Samus battles' summaries and discussions!

Man, that's the only thing bringing me back to this thread... Her summaries make her sound like some unbeatable invincible crazy thing... Which I agree with.

 

[PowerBomb]

Well, there's the Giant's Mask, but think about this:

Can Young Link really catch a Wolfen zipping around?

Seriously, Yink can't really DO anything if Wolf decides to play hooky.

 

[Salem]

Well, there's the Giant's Mask, but think about this:

Can Young Link really catch a Wolfen zipping around?

Seriously, Yink can't really DO anything if Wolf decides to play hooky.

WTF.

Young Link can turn into Feirce Deity Link and projectile spam him. >_>

 

[REL38]

WTF.

Young Link can turn into Feirce Deity Link and projectile spam him. >_>

At something that is apparently moving faster than the speed of sound?

Good luck with that lol

 

[Alphatron]

Nayru's Love doesn't prevent knockback. Wolf can just continuously shoot him off a cliff or something. Mirror Shield doesn't reflect everything either. Non Windwaker/PH Link(Toon Link) is kind of lackluster. Giant's Mask should help him in this fight tho.

 

[Salem]

At something that is apparently moving faster than the speed of sound?

Good luck with that lol

lol

It's not moving at the speed of sound.
Nor is it IRL for it to be doing so.

Even in OOT, there is a beta enemy called the "Arwing" yet it does not move at such speed.

 

[REL38]

lol

It's not moving at the speed of sound.
Nor is it IRL for it to be doing so.

Even in OOT, there is a beta enemy called the "Arwing" yet it does not move at such speed.

Oh cuz I'm sure a space ship moves 20 MPH in space during battles against other space ships.

Makes perfect sense

Fail

Comparing two things that just so happen to have the same name, but work completely different as legit evidence.
lolwut?


Sarcasm aside, Sonic moves at super sonic speeds, but gameplay doesn't necessarily show this.
It would be too fast for the player to control.

Samus' boost ball moves at extreme speeds, but gameplay doesn't really show this.

Same deal with the Arwings.
They're moving well beyond the speed of sound. There's even canon info that says so.
The Arwing moves too fast for Linky to even hit.

 

[_clinton]

I'll just post this again...

http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/file/914622/42740

Again...according to this on Mother 3's canon:

"6 needles have already been removed. The dragon slumbering below is starting to wake."

The more needles that where pulled...the stronger Lucas' power (PK Love) got because the power below the island was being removed...therefore that shows that PK Love is linked to the "dragon"...and therefore is linked to Lucas...when Lucas only had PK Love alpha…the dragon was sleeping…but now that he has Omega…the dragon is close to waking up…

The power should be allowed in because things like the Triforce are allowed in...

According to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JU0C_l4aac
The Triforce does have some awareness of what is going on with its power as well...in fact it works the same way that the dragon works...if a good person uses it...good things happen...if a bad person uses it...bad things happen...

Diddy_Kong…again your comment about Lucas not having his power but you are ok with Link and Ganondorf having theirs is BS…the ideas behind them are the same...only Lucas has more rights to his...

Now as far as the limits on the power go:
”If the one who calls forth the dragon has a wicked heart, the dragon's power will obey him. If he so wishes, he could destroy anything and everything”

There is no limit…but there is no small amount either…they can destroy as much as they want if they so wish…if the power works both ways…which it does because again its dependant on the user…than the same can be said for the healing aspect of it…Diddy Kong…your comment about everyone surviving the end of the world and trying to down play this power is funny…because the only reason they lived is because Lucas wanted them to live…

You can do whatever you want with this power and on whatever level you want!

Now in reference with Mother 2:

”This island co-exists with an unlimited power. That power is the dragon. The power of the dragon sleeps in the darkness under this island. The dragon is stupendously large. It's pretty much the same size as the island. Because the dragon sleeps, this island is protected from calamity.

The “dragon” is the same size as the island because the power is sealed all over the island…just like in Mother 2 there is more than just one seal…again with the backing up…the Dragon is the power of the land according to Leder:

” The dragon is the power of the land. The one who removes the needles is said to be the dragon's master. However, the only ones who can remove the needles are the extremely limited humans.

This says some things as well: 1st off…it backs up the whole Lucas having rights to his power thing, 2nd off…PK Love is a limited power that only a few can learn…and as such only a few can learn the power of the land…PK Rockin was a limited power that was only able to be learned by a few as well…and the same few (that is 2) that learned PK Rockin also had use of a strong power that had a tie in with making and destroying things…but that’s another thing…

Boy…I like how you people can’t put two and two together and keep passing things off as similarities…

Ness, and Lucas’ power has far more in common with each other than they do differences…which their differences are pretty much none…name is hardly an issue…PK Love/Rockin can be named…in fact in the Japan version of Mother 2…Rockin had a different name…want to guess what it was and why it helps out my argument of the two powers being the same? I’ll give you a hint…the name meant Ness’ power was affected by his “mood”…which fun fact…This power in Mother 3…how does it work again?

The fact that Ness and Lucas have rights to “god” powers by far makes them more than just mortal…

Oh and in regards to the points I saw about the Hyper beam with Samus and the Golden Sun with Isaac…

Isaac never got the full power of the golden sun…if you check the end game script you should see that a good % did go to Alex…just not enough to keep him from getting screwed in the end…

Samus…loses her power all the time…I swear she has lost her power like 5 times from actual canon proof behind it…Lucas hasn’t been shown to lose it…in fact…because the needles are no longer there…and they were the only thing keeping the dragon’s power sleeping…he should have it…because the only reason why the power went to sleep was because it was not needed…but what part of you thinks Lucas’ isn’t going to not need his “god” power in these fights? W/O he is just a normal kid for the most part! In fact it’s the same with Ness as well for the most part!

Oh and you complaining about the ending for Mother 3 is funny as well...compared to if you look at the final stuff...

The final battle was going to be a lot darker, and the ending...well lets just say Itoi wanted to disappoint you...hell he didn't do a lot of things with that game...12 chapters compared to the final product of 8, at least 10 characters you could play as, a dark age, modern, and futuristic setting...
Porky was going to be doing a lot more than what he did...

Hell I like Itoi's thinking in general because unlike with certain other things...his characters aren't just 100% good guy and 100% bad guy...

Itoi likes to see people bring up theories as well I might add...that is why there is many questions not answered...

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Kirby and Mario is a tie after Kirby can use an advantage ablities in his match up?!? ._. ☆

☆ Current match up I'll say Wolf, the Wolfen is better than the Arwing on speed and power. But then again, I don't know anything about LoZ so I can't say. ☆

 

[_clinton]

Oh and another thing I should bring up with Samus/Bowser vs. Lucas...

How are they going to block PK Love/Rockin anyway? It works on everything...you can't defend vs. it canon wise (as seen with Claus using it in the battles...as well as with Giygas...when his full power is unleashed)

Oh and I still need proof PK Flash won't **** with them...Samus has been shown to have her mind messed with if you look at Metroid Prime 3 and some of the extra effects from that space goo...and Bowser is a **** **** so I don't see how he is going to avoid this...

 

[Salem]

Oh and another thing I should bring up with Samus/Bowser vs. Lucas...

How are they going to block PK Love/Rockin anyway? It works on everything...you can't defend vs. it canon wise (as seen with Claus using it in the battles...as well as with Giygas...when his full power is unleashed)

Oh and I still need proof PK Flash won't **** with them...Samus has been shown to have her mind messed with if you look at Metroid Prime 3 and some of the extra effects from that space goo...and Bowser is a **** **** so I don't see how he is going to avoid this...

*Ignores REL for a more important post*

She can screw attack to auto gain invinciblity frames and she can speed booster to do the same but infinite.

Now that I think about it... it's not actual invinciblity she is using, it simply has no collision box on the stuff she is doing. lol
That is how she dodges PK Moves, Game Mechs. XD

 

[_clinton]

She can screw attack to auto gain invinciblity frames and she can speed booster to do the same but infinite.

Now that I think about it... it's not actual invinciblity she is using, it simply has no collision box on the stuff she is doing. lol
That is how she dodges PK Moves, Game Mechs. XD

Actually if we are going off game mechs then I'm sure she should be getting hurt from "bullets" and such still...

But still...this is another reason why game mechs should stay in the game only and not be a large part of canon talk...they are easy to alter and screw with...canon is actually things that happen in the game...

Oh...and this is still the best thing to come from brawl:
http://www.cohagen.com/landmaster.swf

Oh and this is the "book of lies"
http://www.amazon.com/Notebook-Proof-Third-Lie-Novels/dp/0802135064

The main characters in these books are twins...care to guess what their names are?

 

[Salem]

Actually if we are going off game mechs then I'm sure she should be getting hurt from "bullets" and such still...

But still...this is another reason why game mechs should stay in the game only and not be a large part of canon talk...they are easy to alter and screw with...canon is actually things that happen in the game...

Oh...and this is still the best thing to come from brawl:
http://www.cohagen.com/landmaster.swf

Oh and this is the "book of lies"
http://www.amazon.com/Notebook-Proof-Third-Lie-Novels/dp/0802135064

The main characters in these books are twins...care to guess what their names are?

We don't know what we are suppose to use for the characters to fight, iirc.

Game mechs or Story/cutscenes.
Though I think we are using a little of both. O_o
Which is wrong, we should use one or the other, it gets confusing having them both together.
Not to mention it makes the thread unbalanced.

lol

Umm... no, I hate getting wrong anwsers. >_>

 

[_clinton]

We don't know what we are suppose to use for the characters to fight, iirc.

Game mechs or Story/cutscenes.

Story/cutscenes...they actually have ground to them...game mechs should only be used rarely...and really only for their own thing that they are from...unless you want things like Mario being offed in like 3 hits, or shrinking when hit then die if hit again all the time...do you think stuff like that should actually be factored in? I personally don't...they are put in only because of game mechs. (which is the same with Metal Kirby...sure he is immune to harm in that game...but Mario breaks through metal all the time...hell Sonic does as well...canon wise they have both shown that they can bust up metals)

Hell...how much health is 20 hearts anyway? Is it worth more than 14 energy tanks?

You have no real clue as to what somethings are worth if you go by game mechs.

But with canon...you do...

There are some tricky things that get factored into this I'll admit...Ike's blessing or Link's ToC...which one is worth more? You really don't know...

Personally in this case I think it should be done this way...with a check list...it shouldn't matter what name it has...because in truth...a name doesn't matter IMO for this...

God power of some sort=yes or no
Amount of god power if character do have it=An item that grants it, The god's favor, the actual power
Type of god power if character does have it=creation, destruction, protection, more than one thing

Well bye again

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Will Nyrue's love and the healing property of 6 fairies outlast a Wolfen's fuel?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Oh and another thing I should bring up with Samus/Bowser vs. Lucas...

How are they going to block PK Love/Rockin anyway? It works on everything...you can't defend vs. it canon wise (as seen with Claus using it in the battles...as well as with Giygas...when his full power is unleashed)

Oh and I still need proof PK Flash won't **** with them...Samus has been shown to have her mind messed with if you look at Metroid Prime 3 and some of the extra effects from that space goo...and Bowser is a **** **** so I don't see how he is going to avoid this...

PSI Rockin' has a chance of failure if the enemy is faster than Ness. Which in Samus' case, would be true especially when she's Speed Boosting. Samus has no problems taking Lucas and Ness down however. She has a OHKO head shot move in Metroid Prime Hunters, which would deliver constant mortal damage to both characters.

In short: if they aren't healing constantly, they'll die as Samus has things like Hyper Mode, Phazon, and Super Missles which she'd fire constantly, probably even faster than the boy's HP bar rolls. They'll waste precious PP by healing only, and if they're out of PP Samus can still hurt them harder than they even if she's out of missles with Speed Booster and Screw Attack.

Screw Attack can be hitten through as seen in Metroid Fusion when you fight the SA-X. Both Samus and the SA-X use the Screw Attack, and both cna hurt each other with beams while using the attack. Missles don't work however IIRC.

Certain attacks would go through Screw Attack I think. Psychic energy or high level magic / elemental moves would work against Screw Attack. But not against Speed Booster I guess.

 

[Alphatron]

Well, in Young Link's defense, he can slow down time with the Ocarina at least. It's not a game changing difference in this fight though.

 

[PowerBomb]

Screw Attack just has massive defense. Start-up has invincibility, like Salem says. You can use the Screw Attack against every common enemy (including the oh-so-lol-gold pirate) and OHKO them.

Speed Booster is true invincibility. You cannot stop it once it starts up.

Don't PK Rockin'/Love have a chance of failing against faster enemies? Or is that just Rockin'?

Who knows what PK Rockin'/Love actually look like. They look like a force of something, but Samus takes various things with her godforsaken suit anyway.

@above: Doesn't the Inverted Song of Time not affect enemies or something?

 

[Falcon88]

In MM, the Inverted Song of Time slowed down time and all the NPCs, but normal monsters keep moving normally. So, ... I don't think it would affect Wolf. Edit: Would Wolf even give Link a chance to play it?

 

[JOE!]

Wolf has a wolfen..it shouldve ended then and there. What exactly can Ylink do against that?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Wolf has a wolfen..it shouldve ended then and there. What exactly can Ylink do against that?

Against the Wolfen, Young Link can do nothing. It all depends on how long Wolf can stay in the air, cause apperantly, Young Link can use Nayru's Love for a long period of time, possibly even the full 3 days in which Majora's Mask takes place.

Wolfen being out of fuel doesn't mean instant death for Wolf though. IIRC, Star Fox characters fought without verhiles in Star Fox Assault. Wolf probably has weapons like the blaster and grenades (just a guess didn't actually play Assault) as well. Thing is, Link may still have his invincibility with Nayru's Love.

Unless Wolf can stop Young Link before using Nayru's Love... There's nothing both can do really.

EDIT: I dunno much about Majora's Mask or Star Fox, so anyone can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Sasha]

Against the Wolfen, Young Link can do nothing. It all depends on how long Wolf can stay in the air, cause apperantly, Young Link can use Nayru's Love for a long period of time, possibly even the full 3 days in which Majora's Mask takes place.

Wolfen being out of fuel doesn't mean instant death for Wolf though. IIRC, Star Fox characters fought without verhiles in Star Fox Assault. Wolf probably has weapons like the blaster and grenades (just a guess didn't actually play Assault) as well. Thing is, Link may still have his invincibility with Nayru's Love.

Unless Wolf can stop Young Link before using Nayru's Love... There's nothing both can do really.

EDIT: I dunno much about Majora's Mask or Star Fox, so anyone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Uh. Nayru's Love is only in OoT unless I'm mistaken. You can use it for like, two minutes. And it uses up a ton of magic for each use. You might be able to use it four times before you run out of magic. Also, if he uses up all his magic for Nayru's Love, he won't be able to use the Giant's Mask.

Let's see... Other masks...

Goron Mask/Deku Mask - Shielding pretty much stops damage from anything coming from any direction. Except fire. Like actual flames. Goron's can withstand lava/magma but not straight up fire.

Zora Mask - Swimming and attacking electric forcefield for close up enemies. Not super strong defensively. And Yink needs defense in the MU.

Fierce Deity Mask - Pretty awesome. For real. But the energy disk things from his sword don't home on to enemies, so that effect is fairly limited.

Giant's Mask - See above.

Stone Mask - makes Yink invisible to normal/weak enemies. Don't think that would count against Wolf, but if it does that'd probably be his best defensive bet.

Bunny Hood - run fast, but not faster than a Wolfen.

Every other mask - Stay awake forever, smell hidden things, deliver mail, gather fairies, read magic stones, talk to Keaton, get weird responses from people...

If Stone Mask works against Wolf, then Yink can stall out and try to hit the Wolfen out of the air. But Wolf can fly the Wolfen WAY out of Yink's arrow range and proceed to shoot the ground a million times with his lasers. He might hit something eventually.

And I've never played any Star Fox after SF64, but is there any evidence that a Wolfen/Arwing ever runs out of fuel?

I'm leaning heavily towards Wolf in this MU.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Wolf it is.

Vs.

Current Match-Up:
THE HERO OF WINDS Vs. THE SPACE FOX

Toon Link Vs. Fox

Vs.

Round 3, Match 5.

Who will win? YOU decide!

Overall Results

Wins +3:

,

Wins +2:

, , , ,

Wins +1:

, , , , , , , , , , , ,

Neutral:

:mewtwo:, ,

Loss -1:

, , , , , , , , , , , ichu:

Loss -2:

,

Loss -3:

, , ,

 

[DoonKoon]

This isn't like the last MU at all. TLink's much better than YLink.

Hard to say who'll win. I'm going for Tink on this one.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Same results as previous match up. Toon Link has nothing that can stop Fox except for the Magic Armor. But that'll run out eventually, leaving Link open for lasers and bombs from Fox's Arwing.

 

[Kewkky]

For those of you who say "Mari has been able to break Metal before", and stuff of the sort...

Mario can break metal blocks into multiple pieces with a simple whack of the hammer, METAL BLOCKS. That means it's all metal... but, why can't he break metal chairs, tables, or even dent walls? What about enemies: if he can break metal blocks into many many pieces, that would mean he has some amazing power behind that hammer. Why can't he obliterate rock enemies with a single whack if that were true? And why is it that whenever he breaks metal blocks, we don't see huge chunks of metal falling apart, but instead thin pieces of whatever you hit? I'm guessing the blocks are hollow inside, and the external layers are incredibly thin.

If all of this keeps adding up, we now look at Kirby, which as Metal Kirby, is a ball of whatever metallic substance he might be. What makes Mario able to destroy Metal Kirby with a whack, but not rock enemies with a single whack? And, why even after being able to break open a ball of metal, is he not able to break even metal chairs (which are thinner than a ball of metal), which is just a collection of thin metal tubes bolted together? He can't even DENT them.

Being able to break Metal Blocks in the game is only done so that you can't advance father than what you're supposed to, and advance past the current plot... Complete a goal, and you unlock the next goal... Not to mention that the only use for the Metal Hammer is busting Metal Blocks, you never need to use that to break enemy's metal casings and such, which bring me to my next point: Why can Mario break apart Metal Blocks, but not break apart Metal enemies? In TTYD, you can't heavily damage the X-Naut's robot boss (forgot its name) with a swing of the metal hammer, in fact, all you do is minimal damage unless you're backed up by badges... And it's not SOLID METAL. So, the Metal Hammer's metal-busting properties is only seen while busting metal blocks, which gives it THAT sole purpose... Otherwise, it's just a stronger version of the normal Hammer.


Now, I know this isn't supposed to be a realistic battle like the other thread, but you guys are putting too much pressure on simple things like 'game mechanics', and from what I can make out, such items whose sole purpose is to unlock further goals in the game fall under 'game mechanics'. Other things, like oh let's say, Samus's upgrades, don't fall under 'game mechanics' due to your ability to use them equally on all enemies, as well as some surfaces: you can burn ice with the Plasma Beam to move onto next areas and hidden treasures, as well as burn enemies, from the start till the end of the game.

 

[justaway12]

Kirby is far too slow to get Mario in metal form.

We even stopped talking about breaking him xD

 

[Kewkky]

I know you guys stopped talking about him 2 discussions ago, I just wanted to write up stuff about 'items whose purpose is a game mechanic'... While I was writing that, I remember that in the other thread (The Deadliest Brawler), there was this guy who was arguing that Samus would never win a fight against Link because the Golden Bracelet in OoT helped him pick up huge pillars, and that Link's bones were made of steel or else he'd be crushed by the pillars, and that Link threw the pillar a huge amount of distance behind him showing that he had superhuman strength... All from an item that has no use but remove an obstacle that is in the way of the current goal (a 'Game-Mechanic' item).

So, to make fights a little bit more manageable, people should really think about those kinds of items and what would they REALLY do against another opponent, and not just apply what the items imply themselves to be (the bracelet even said that it was for Link to pick up pillars, yet the discussion lasted like two weeks anyway! [/frustration]).

 

[missingnomaster]

Wait... The Deadliest Brawler had that debate too? Cause we had a debate just like that (minus Link having steel bones), and it lasted well over 100 pages.

 

[PowerBomb]

That bracelet never even augmented Link's sword-swing strength. Magical strength = magically lifting heavy pillars.

 

[REL38]

@Kewkky

Sure you aren't talking bout' Galekill from this thread?

Magic stuff was never used in TDB.

 

[PK-ow!]

Can Toon Link influence any kind of flying beasts to assist him? Are we allowing that?


Can he perhaps manipulate the wind enough to make effective use of an Arwing in the atmosphere impossible?
EDIT: By the way, the very notion of a ship that can be used both in space and in an atmosphere is absurd. In any universe that remotely resembles our own, one environment is going to have positive pressure, and the other, negative (extremely negative). A structure cannot be designed to hold up in both of them.



I haven't played WW; can the King of Red Lions transform into something?

Can TLink use a sea vessel and fire cannons at Fox's Arwing?


And even if he doesn't have any of that.... give a Link some credit. If the battlefield could be chosen favorably to Toon Link, it would be an area with sufficient density of Hook-shot-able* platforms for Toon Link to at least attempt to strike down an Arwing.


It's no different from fighting a flying, armored, fire-breathing bird, right? Or a dragon? Both Links did that.



*what's the Hookshot called in WW?

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Same results as previous match up. Toon Link has nothing that can stop Fox except for the Magic Armor. But that'll run out eventually, leaving Link open for lasers and bombs from Fox's Arwing.

I'll go with this.