Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[PowerBomb]

PK Love has reduced damage v. Samus. Very reduced damage.

You know, Samus can just tank a hit and freeze Lucas as he sets up a shield/counter. Or burn him.

EDIT: After he gets up from the Memento she can repeat the process.

Freeze him, wait as he thaws and Counter wears off, and repeat the process.

 

[Crystanium]

One thing got me wondering though, which might be real important.
If Lucas dies, and he gets revived with a Memento, does this also restore his PP?
Or only HP?

Might be pretty important, seeing as if Lucas can use PSI all over again Samus eventually will die. PK Love is pretyt powerful.

It just says it instantly revives him. Also, Lucas can only have this if his inventory isn't full. How much items can Lucas hold? It doesn't seem to me that PP is restored. Also, how much HP is restored from the Momento?

 

[warpd]

Isn't Lucas a little slow as well? He usually is the last person to attack on his team.

 

[Diddy Kong]

At least, he's faster than Ness. THAT dude is slooooooow... <_<;

Dryn, I think Lucas can have 16 items, 4 which must be his equipment. Other wise he really doesn't stand a chance here.

 

[PowerBomb]

I think that's right.

Seven mementos take up space as well. He has nine slots for HP/PP healing items.

 

[REL38]

At least, he's faster than Ness. THAT dude is slooooooow... <_<;

Dryn, I think Lucas can have 16 items, 4 which must be his equipment. Other wise he really doesn't stand a chance here.

Going by memory:

20 items for inventory

4 are used for equips.

7 are used for Momentos


20 - 7 - 4 = 9

Lucas has 9 free spots for w/e items he wants.


Subject to change if he has more/less spots, but he must still dedicate 11 spots to Momentos/Equips.

 

[Diddy Kong]

9 - 4 = 5 spaces. His equipment seriously takes 4 spaces. I suppose he could go without his weapon here to give him another space but... <_< Yeah, then Lucas would be another example of trying too hard.

The Mementos won't restore PP btw, just tried it out. And his HP scrolls up, as it litterally starts with 0 and slowly goes up. Samus would just keep on shooting missles, beams, lasers and whatnot and Lucas would be suprised how quick his Mementos go to waste.

Counter is his best bet here. But then again, Lucas likely has a lot less stamina than Samus.

EDIT: REL, I checked it seriously is 16 spaces. - 4 for equipment = 12 free spaces.

 

[UncleSam]

9 - 4 = 5 spaces. His equipment seriously takes 4 spaces. I suppose he could go without his weapon here to give him another space but... <_< Yeah, then Lucas would be another example of trying too hard.

The Mementos won't restore PP btw, just tried it out. And his HP scrolls up, as it litterally starts with 0 and slowly goes up. Samus would just keep on shooting missles, beams, lasers and whatnot and Lucas would be suprised how quick his Mementos go to waste.

Counter is his best bet here. But then again, Lucas likely has a lot less stamina than Samus.

and a lot less health. what's Lucas's max health?

 

[warpd]

Do any of the attacks Samus has inflict special side effects that could give Lucas problems?

 

[UncleSam]

plasma, magmaul and light beam can burn, and Ice, judicator and dark beam can freeze.
nova beam can OHK if coupled with x-ray visor
Imp can OHK if used correctly.
wave beam paralyzes.
uhh what else
shock coil does ridiculous amounts of damage, volt driver has rapid fire, and one more... grr I main Weavel I should know this
oh right battlehammer is a mortar-like weapon

 

[Diddy Kong]

Lucas's absolute max is 999 HP, but I don't think he'll get his HP that high under normal circumstances (aka without hacks).

 

[Ray_Kalm]

So, is it rough for Samus here, or the other way around?

 

[UncleSam]

that's 10 energy tanks? but that's hacks.
mhmm
and Samus can use crystal flash multiple times.
so he has to use 2 mementos for 1 crystal flash.
there are also reserve tanks.
Samus can outlast Lucas.

 

[PowerBomb]

Samus' Beams also give Lucas trouble.

Lucas can only be immune to one element/status at a time.

I also foresee the Dark Beam bypassing his immunities and uber-hurting them. Would the Dark Beam be able to 'poison' stuff, since it IS made out Dark Aether's toxic stuff. Or it looks like it.

 

[REL38]

plasma, magmaul and light beam can burn, and Ice, judicator and dark beam can freeze.
nova beam can OHK if coupled with x-ray visor
Imp can OHK if used correctly.
wave beam paralyzes.
uhh what else
shock coil does ridiculous amounts of damage, volt driver has rapid fire, and one more... grr I main Weavel I should know this
oh right battlehammer is a mortar-like weapon

Dark Beam constricts the opponent.
It doesn't necessarily "freeze" them, but still accomplishes the same relative task.

Wave Beam, Volt Driver and Shock Coil are no go.
Franklin Badge nullifies electrical based attacks and returns said attack.

Imperialist is a OHKO in multiplayer.
It's not a OHKO in single player.

Ice Beam is a rather slow attack.
Judicator is more reliable.


Aren't these battles being considered the equivalent of "Boss Battles"?

@Powerbomb

I doubt the Dark Beam has "poisonous" properties.
If it did, it would have shown in-game.

 

[UncleSam]

warpd was asking for the effects.
All she needs is nova beam IMO

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I also foresee the Dark Beam bypassing his immunities and uber-hurting them. Would the Dark Beam be able to 'poison' stuff, since it IS made out Dark Aether's toxic stuff. Or it looks like it.

I doubt so. Didn't gamewise, so don't think so.

 

[Crystanium]

Aren't these battles being considered the equivalent of "Boss Battles"?

"Boss" simply means an opponent who is generally stronger than the opponents the protagonist has faced up to that point. I hope no one is going to attempt using the argument, "This or that doesn't work on bosses." It's simply a game mechanic. An example would be Samus being capable of inflicting damage on Kraid or Ridley with the Screw Attack, and even Bombs, in Metroid, but this is not possible in Super Metroid. The Screw Attack does not inflict damage on Ridley in Super Metroid. Instead, Samus goes through him. We notice that in Metroid Fusion, using a Screw Attack on SA-X will result SA-X using the Screw Attack, thus canceling out the attack. Samus took damage by hitting Kraid or Ridley with the Screw Attack, but this is merely a hitbox, something you'd find in Super Mario Bros. if you touched a Goomba or Bowser and died.

 

[REL38]

@Dryn

Figured something like that would apply.

I was gonna suggest Ice Beam won't freeze Lucas due to being a "Boss", but then I realized how rediculous that sounded

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

It's a shame Lucas's game didn't come out here in the states or Europe.
Oh well.

Can Samus use the grappling beam to steal the Franklin Badge like shields in Metroid Prime 3?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

It's a shame Lucas's game didn't come out here in the states or Europe.
Oh well.

Can Samus use the grappling beam to steal the Franklin Badge like shields in Metroid Prime 3?

Stealing is allowed, so I don't see why not.

 

[Crystanium]

It's a shame Lucas's game didn't come out here in the states or Europe.
Oh well.

Can Samus use the grappling beam to steal the Franklin Badge like shields in Metroid Prime 3?

While the Grapple Beam has shown to be capable of latching onto metallic and non-metallic objects, even living creatures (Korakk Beast), I don't think Samus will be using the Grapple Beam here, especially if she's going to try and take away the Franklin Badge from Lucas. I just don't really see the purpose it would serve. Yes, Ray_Kalm is correct, however. WhatIsRaizen? did allow stealing from others. Let's not forget that ships were allowed, so Samus does have the Gunship. Haha! But I'm going to try to avoid that for now.

 

[missingnomaster]

warpd was asking for the effects.
All she needs is nova beam IMO

Nova Beam normally only can pass through Phazite.

Luckily, she has the Super Metroid Plasma Beam, which means she can do head shots with the Nova Beam on almost anyone.

Pretty powerful stuff.

 

[PowerBomb]

iirc, Ice Spreader can freeze Metroid Prime.

Can't the Imperialist OHKO the hunters in single player? Besides, OHKOs to Lucas don't matter, his rolling HP bar would just go down for a while until he heals.

 

[_Keno_]

Just wondering, but how is Mewtwo at -2 and Peach at 0?

Mewtwo was so powerful in the original pokemon games that he was banned from competitive play. Peach is just a princess that can't really do anything...

 

[PowerBomb]

Princess Peach has items and has extreme attacks in some RPG games. She also has an invincible parasol that breaks the game.

Mewtwo has his limitations, and Pokemon are overrated. The reason why Mewtwo was banned is because he's Uber. He's still banned, but can be countered by some things. Not to mention, Pokemon games don't let some moves have much breathing room, such as Psychic. Which is just a telekinetic force slamming into something's body.

 

[Crystanium]

iirc, Ice Spreader can freeze Metroid Prime.

If you ever get around to fighting Metroid Prime, try this. Once you fire your Super Missile, charge up your Charge Beam and stand in the part where the ground is lower so you can avoid getting hit. Then when Metroid Prime turns around, fire another Super Missile. You can do the same with the Ice Spreader. It helps you defeat Metroid Prime a lot faster. (I've fought Metroid Prime over 120 times. I lost count after that.)

About the Imperialist, I can't say. I've never played Metroid Prime: Hunters, but I would find a "lethal laser" to be lethal, especially against non-armored opponents. Are the enemies in Metroid Prime: Hunters protected by armor?

 

[thesage]

Lucas Equips:

Weapon: Mystical Stick (Offense +90, boosts other stats that I don't remember, but I know that it's better to equip than the real bat)
Head: Awesome Crown (Defense +20, PP +30)
Acc: Awesome Ring (Defense +30, PP +30)
Body: Well this one is a little bit more complicated. Usually by the end of the game, most people equip the good kid's shirt (Defense +17, IQ +10), but there is a shirt called the Knit Sweater which restores some HP every turn. Since a turn for Lucas is every move he does and his rolling hp meter, he's restoring hp a really fast rate. So even if he's dealt lethal damage he can just keeping waving his stick around and restore hp. Lolbroken. IDK how much health it heals, but even if it's like 8 health, and if he is at 20 health he just waves his stick every time after Samus Attacks him. She'll have to freeze him to make sure his health goes down to 0, and then he has the magypsy remains to bring him back to life. Thinking about it now, knit sweater's effect may be the same as refresh and heal 10% of Lucas' hp each turn.

PSI Lucas Knows (that will be helpful in this matchup):

Counter (12 pp) ~ halves damage taken then deals that much damage to enemy. Has 3 layers.
Defense up (6 pp) ~ raises defense (duh)
Pk Love Omega (50 pp) ~ does 800 - 820 damage to an enemy, ignores defence.
Pk Flash (12 pp) ~ 60% cry, 15% paralyze, 10% strange, 10% lethal damage, 5% nothing happens
Lifeup y (16 pp) ~ recovers all hp
Healing a (4 pp) ~ cures any status ailment
Refresh (20 pp) ~ restores 10% of target's hp every turn for 5 turns. Can stack with the effect of knitted sweater.

Items (16 total items he can carry)
4 for equips
7 for mementos
5 left over for New Years eve bombs

This is assuming he'll have to carry that many mementos.

Game Mechanics that affect this match:

Franklin Badge is considered a key item and therefore cannot be stolen by enemies.

Being Frozen only lasts for one turn.

When Lucas is defending his rolling hp meter goes down extremely slowly. If his hp is increasing the speed the meter rolls is not affected.

Stats:

I'm not sure of Lucas' stats... Lucas doesn't go anywhere near level 99 in his actual game (first time i beat the game I didn't learn refresh or pk ground lol).

Looking at some vids I think his max stats are 544 HP and 390 PP

Lucas' main strategy

Well Lucas has two main offensive strategies: spam either pk flash or pk love. Pk love does a lot of damage and pk flash can kill samus in one hit (though that has a 10% chance) and a 85% chance of messing her up in some other way.

Defense: Lucas has to be killed 8 times, being frozen only lasts one action (and he can still use psi while frozen), Rolling hp meter adds to his durability. He regens health and has recovery psi. He is not affected by any long term status effects. He also halves and counters any damage dealt to him.

I can't wait til we get to the Ness vs. Samus matchup, he has the most lol way of beating her (rust promoter dx lololol).

 

[Uffe]

I forgot about the rust promoter. Anyway, while still being here, thesage, do you know if the New Year's Eve Bomb works on other enemies or is that just a game mechanic in itself?

 

[Crystanium]

I forgot about the rust promoter. Anyway, while still being here, thesage, do you know if the New Year's Eve Bomb works on other enemies or is that just a game mechanic in itself?

If it's only useful against King Statue, then that means it's a dud to any other boss. We can toss that out. It's not like Samus goes by HP anyway.

I'll be back tomorrow for the other stuff.

 

[Uffe]

If it's only useful against King Statue, then that means it's a dud to any other boss. We can toss that out. It's not like Samus goes by HP anyway.

I'll be back tomorrow for the other stuff.

Something Samus is not. Which is why I asked. Chances are you probably can't use it on other enemies anyway because you probably need it specifically for the King Statue. And while she's not going by HP, we know from that description that it does a great deal of damage anyway.

 

[Samochan]

Counter shouldn't really work against samus, as it works against physical attacks only. And even if we take into account that it works against mother 3 equivalent of lasers (lol whut physical attacks), samus has many many weapons in her arsenal that are not lasers nor physical attacks (such as power bombs). PSI counter on the other hand works only against PSI.

Samus also has other means of "freezing" the enemy, aka charged Dark beam shots where the tendrils follow the target and then harden into a brittle shell, which can then be shattered with missiles.

Darkburst on the other hand forms an unstable dimensional rift, which causes massive damage and sucks in smaller targets completely (coincidentally lucas is small). When target is nearby, it basically rips apart their molecular structure and draws them into the rift. Rolling hp doesn't matter if that person is sucked into a void of no return lol.

Omega cannon is also fun.

"This proscribed weapon of mass destruction was called an abomination by the ALIMBIC ELDERS because of the harm it could inflict on anyone desperate enough to use it." -Logbook entry for Omega Cannon, Metroid Prime Hunters

The Omega Cannon is believed to be the Alimbic's "Ultimate Power." It fires a powerful but slow-moving ball of radioactive energy that has a timed detonation, traveling a significant distance before exploding, unless it comes into contact with an object, in which case it will detonate immediately. When Samus Aran fought Gorea at the Oubliette, she used this weapon to destroy the beast's final form, which was impervious to all other weaponry. The Alimbic Elders, although possessing it, refused to use it because of its horrible destructive power. Heavy gamma radiation emanates from the Omega Cannon, this suggest nuclear firepower. "

Samus definitely has some extreme firepower. =)

Btw, didn't we agree that items can be stolen? Link's sword and shield would also be considered key items, yet they can be stolen away. Samus also doesn't need to steal the franklin badge away, she only needs to knock it out from Lucas' possession.

Rolling hp is so game mechanic lol, I can imagine lucas getting headshotted, brains gusted out and everything yet he'd still be alive and sloowly losing energy and then being able to recover and continue the fight. =D

 

[Diddy Kong]

I doubt rolling HP will protect Lucas from getting his head shot... <_< Poor little guy.
Also, since the Crystal Flash is used by a Power Bomb, does it also do damage? O_O Seems broken as ****.

 

[UncleSam]

did I mention hypermode?
no I didn't.

 

[Samochan]

did I mention hypermode?
no I didn't.

Aah ****

Speed booster + hypermode = win. What can Lucas do to pseudo-invincibility, phazon radiation, superspeed and massive firepower? =)

But yea, darkburst >> Lucas. If that doesn't OHKO, I dunno what's supposed to then. Personally I cannot fanthom any counterarguments that could possibly prevent Lucas from getting sucked into a dimensional rift that sucks in every enemy not bigger than space pirate trooper. Ice spreader + Darkburst should be a deadly combo (as spreader homes in too).

Lol samus has so many weapons even I forget some.

Do all the enemies on Mother and Earthbound series use physical attacks and PSI attacks only? Cause I only saw Lucas and Ness being equipped with counter and shield that work against physical attacks and then PSI those, which only work against PSI attacks as stated on earthbound wiki (not forgetting the graphics are kinda psychedelic and indicate a psychic fight). I doubt Lucas is equipped to handle anything non-physical attack that's not PSI and as we very well know, Samus has tons of attacks that are not physical and none of them are PSI.

 

[PowerBomb]

Diddy, I think you meant PK Flash. Love will never OHKO Samus, even without defense boosts.

 

[UncleSam]

Aah ****

Speed booster + hypermode = win. What can Lucas do to pseudo-invincibility, phazon radiation, superspeed and massive firepower? =)

But yea, darkburst >> Lucas. If that doesn't OHKO, I dunno what's supposed to then. Personally I cannot fanthom any counterarguments that could possibly prevent Lucas from getting sucked into a dimensional rift that sucks in every enemy not bigger than space pirate trooper. Ice spreader + Darkburst should be a deadly combo (as spreader homes in too).

Lol samus has so many weapons even I forget some.

lies I downed an Ingsmasher with a Darkburst.
And I downed a Dark Ingsmasher with 2 lightbursts.
Lightburst will incinerate Lucas if it hits.

 

[Samochan]

lies I downed an Ingsmasher with a Darkburst.
And I downed a Dark Ingsmasher with 2 lightbursts.
Lightburst will incinerate Lucas if it hits.

I mean suck into the portal, not just deal heavy damage (like grenchler)

Though I can't recall really if Ingsmasher is sucked into the portal. <_<

*edited my earlier post*

I'm also intrigued by this "concentration" thing. Concentration is needed for enemy and player to be able to use any PSI abilities. Some enemies can distrup this concentration, though this type of enemy is seemingly Earthbound exclusive.

Can you image Lucas being able to concentrate at all when he's being bombarded with Samus' weapons 24/7? Getting power bombed, imperialist sniped, frozen solid, burned by plasma, sucked into a rift by darkburst, speed blized with speed booster, made insane via exposure to phazon radiation (phazon induced insanity ftw)...

"Most bioforms in direct contact with Phazon, be it ore or liquid die within seconds. Even living within an area with high Phazon concentration can be fatal over time. However, bioforms with prolonged Phazon exposure that do not die are horribly mutated. Exposure to Phazon radiation destroys brain cells and cognitive thought in sentient beings"

 

[Crystanium]

Regarding Samus' health...

Metroid Fusion has shown Samus to hold a max of 20 Energy Tanks. Each tank holds 100 Energy Units.

20 * 100 = 2,000 Energy Units

Samus acquired 4 Reserve Tanks.

4 * 100 = 400 Energy Units

Crystal Flash fully restores all Energy Tanks, excluding Reserve Tanks. If Crystal Flash can be used 5 times...

5 * 2,000 = 10,000 + 4 = 10,400 Energy Units.

Without the Crystal Flash, it's simply 2,400 Energy Units.

Let's assume Lucas used PSI Love Ω. It uses 50 PP. Let's assume it does 820 damage. So, we have 10,400 - 820. We'll use this to find out how much Energy Units Samus would have left.

First Use: 9,580
Second Use: 8,760
Third Use: 7,940
Fourth Use: 7,120
Fifth Use: 6,300
Sixth Use: 5,480
Seventh Use: 4,660
Eighth Use: 3,840
Ninth Use: 3,020
Tenth Use: 2,200
Eleventh Use: 1,380
Twelfth Use: 560
Thirteenth Use: 0

50 PP is used each time PSI Love Ω is used. 50 * 13 = 650. What is Lucas' max PP? Well, I see 390 PP. We would also have to take Lucas' healing into consideration. And if those Momentos are used, it doesn't restore PP. Oh, and the Gravity Suit cuts enemy damage to one fourth. So it's only doing a quarter of the damage it should otherwise be doing. PK Love Ω doesn't appear to be as strong anymore. If I am doing this right, 820 * 0.25 = 205. If this is correct, even this would take 12 uses of PSI Love Ω to get rid of 2,400 Energy Units. 50 * 12 = 600 PP. That's still too much. Aside from this, I don't know how Lucas will be attacking an extremely fast target. He doesn't seem to have as much PSI abilities as his teammates.

 

[UncleSam]

Regarding Hypermode:
Samus expends 1 energy tank to fuel all her weapons with Phazon and she is impervious to everything except for Overload grenades which only Space Pirates have
her weaponry is:

Hyper Beam
This uses up a tiny bit of phazon to be fired, charging it up can release a scattershot that can be spread to hit multiple targets or focused in on one enemy.
Hyper Ball
lol, her morph ball becomes a rolling ball of death, you can use up phazon to electrify yourself (radiate yourself IDK which one) and will sap the opponents health.
Hyper Missile
I love this one <3 it expands 1/4 of the phazon that you use while in hypermode to fire a super missile fueled by phazon, the explosion is immense, and probably her best concussive weapon.
Hyper Grapple
The grapple beam in MP3C allowed you to sap HP from your enemies, or energize them, but in hypermode it's the opposite. energizing your opponents fills them with phazon until it corrupts the targets body killing them, or it can be used to sap phazon from other things.

short descriptions on hypermode weapons.
Hypermode lasts 25 seconds (unless she runs out of phazon b4 hand) but after 15 seconds she becomes corrupted and she continuously gains phazon. after 25 seconds she can use another tank and enter hypermode again.
^use the corruption to your advantage ppl.