"SMASH ATTACK" - April 03.-05. '09, Bremen

[Tonb3rry]

Yuna: Yeah, there are characters that actually can play on Mute city, like two Roy teams or something. And Mute City suffers unplayable lag with very common characters, I have never experienced that with Rainbow Ride, tbh. And if it got lag with a special matchup, I'd really like to see that, cuz I have video-proof of unlaggy matches on RR where I have played(teams). Mute City got really bad lag, but I haven't experienced lag on a very common Norwegian stage, I can't really say that I agree with you...

And yeah, I'm actually one of those guys who are against all kinds of lag<_<

 

[Rubyiris]

Yuna: Yeah, there are characters that actually can play on Mute city, like two Roy teams or something. And Mute City suffers unplayable lag with very common characters, I have never experienced that with Rainbow Ride, tbh. And if it got lag with a special matchup, I'd really like to see that, cuz I have video-proof of unlaggy matches on RR where I have played(teams). Mute City got really bad lag, when I haven't experienced lag on a very common Norwegian stage, I can't really say that I agree with you...

like two roy teams

two roy teams

roy teams

roy

wat .

 

[°UÇK]

Mute city lags and will be banned for teams. As for Rainbow Ride I actually did not know, would like to see some proof please. If it does lag the stage necessarily has to be banned either. Having both stages banned for teams would also mean "only" one ban per team.



I said the schedule will change, I looked over it again and this is what going to be like:

We start with brawl teams on friday at 19:00 and should be finished (easily) within 5 hours/have to be finished till 24:00 o' clock.
Saturday is the melee day starting with Teams at 09:00 in the morning, it will probably take longer than brawl teams will but as for now melee teams will get 5 hours as well ending at 14:00 o' clock. Even if teams takes longer thats not to big of a problem since because I took a 2 hour break into account after which melee singles have to start, thats 16:00 then. Melee singles have to be finished till midnight so there will be 8 hours which should be fine.
The last event, Brawl Singles, will start sunday at 09:00 and hopefully end around 15:00. Thats 6 hours of brawling.
Again more compact:

Friday
19:00-24:00 - Brawl Teams

Saturday
09:00-14:00 - Melee Teams
14:00-16:00 - Pause
16:00-24:00 - Melee Singles

Sunday
09:00-15:00 - Brawl Singles


I see a need in reinstalling the obligatory full charge for all. Otherwise the low pots for the events might even get decreased since most likely not every participant of the tourney would be willing to attend every event as well.
Well, I will reinstall this, just to inform you.

 

[Rubyiris]

Rainbow Ride is fine for teams. People should stop bawwwwwwing at a perfectly fine stage thats been used in tourney since ****ing 2003.

....

what

the

****

why can't you just make brawl teams and brawl singles one day?

I don't get it

You obviously don't understand how hard it is for some people to switch from one game to another lol And when theres money on the line like that, its even worse.

and what happened to crews?

 

[Tonb3rry]

You're planning to finish Melee Teams within 5 hours with the number of approx. 120 attendants?
Good luck!

You obviously don't understand how hard it is for some people to switch from one game to another lol And when theres money on the line like that, its even worse.

Maybe it's just me, but I have no problem with that =/

 

[Rubyiris]

A lot of american players have that problem

and many professionals don't want to do it because it messes up their game

but you don't even play brawl seriously lol

 

[°UÇK]

cash, is this you again? >.>

I want to finish in time. thats is why there will be events over the 3 days and not 2 only. Having two days only would mean brawl singles and teams take place on either friday or sunday only. So the tournament would have to start really early on friday, around midday or the tourney would end really late on sunday. I dislike both.
Btw you would get a hole night to switch from brawl to melee and vice versa. Thats totally fine.

Crews will happen friday and saturday night as unofficial events. Organised but unofficial since the rules say you dont have to play official tournament events past midnight which will be the case here.

And no, melee teams will probably take longer but you would have to use some time of the generous 2 hour break then.

 

[Rubyiris]

You should do brawl Doubles, then brawl singles.

end of day one

then melee doubles, and melee singles

end of day two

then crews

and low tiers(?)

end of tourney

like a normal tourney

<_<

edit:

cash, is this you again? >.>

wat

 

[Lawrencelot]

^ you do realize that only the saturday is a full day right? If I'm correct the tournament doens't last much more than 48 hours, and that is with the nights included.

I'm really looking forward to this btw. But UÇK, do you know yet if I can get housing for 2 persons the night after the tourney?

 

[°UÇK]

I dont have anymore space available at my place but there are other people willing to provide housing. I will check back with NINA and K.C. who both should be willing and able to house you. But please let me check this first. I will call them tomorrow and tell you asap.

 

[Rubyiris]

I suppose this means you wont be changing it

that's because Brawl came out and it's hard to be consistent because I keep switching between the 2 games and I only play on weekends now because it's too boring alone.

see? even m2k has this problem

 

[Kone]

Id just like to point out that the 'not so surprising' fact that cash mooney aint posted on this thread in sometime...


...i love being right

 

[Rubyiris]

Id just like to point out that the 'not so surprising' fact that cash mooney aint posted on this thread in sometime...


...i love being right

any reason why you're so obsessed with this guy?

 

[Luma]

srsly rubyiris, cant you just stfu for once, PLEASE?!

 

[Yuna]

Mute city lags and will be banned for teams. As for Rainbow Ride I actually did not know, would like to see some proof please. If it does lag the stage necessarily has to be banned either. Having both stages banned for teams would also mean "only" one ban per team.

Pick four characters which require a lot of rendering, for example:
* Ganondorf - His cape flows in the wind
* Peach - Peach's dress + hair
* Zelda - Dress + Hair
* Marth/Roy - Capes

Etc. Go to Rainbow Ride. Watch as lag ensues. This can be done on one's own without any help from human players by simply using 4 controllers or 1 controller + 3 computers. Also, try performing moves with them as certain moves will lag the game more.

Rainbow Ride is fine for teams. People should stop bawwwwwwing at a perfectly fine stage thats been used in tourney since ****ing 2003.

Then it is hypocritical to ban Mute City for lagging sometimes with some combinations since the same is true for Rainbow Ride. Both or neither.

Character combinations that does not lag Mute City, IIRC:
Sheik (Akke) + Peach (Yuna)
vs.
Marth (Ek) + Fox (Helios)

This was a few years ago, but Akke and I counterpicked HeliEk with MC without experiencing lag, IIRC. Adversely, on Rainbow Ride, I got lagged when I and someone else (probably Armada since I think it was a teams MM, if not, then I'm not sure since I switch teammates a lot) got counterpicked by two Norwegians (Fox + Marth, probably). So Peach + Fox + Marth + Someone else are apparently enough to noticeably lag RR.

 

[VA]

I actually think it's fairly typical to ban Mute City and not Rainbow Ride, I haven't ever watched doubles on Mute but there are plenty of famous matches on Rainbow Ride (Isai's come back on PC + King). Is the lag the same or more or Mute? I'm assuming it's more.

 

[Yuna]

I actually think it's fairly typical to ban Mute City and not Rainbow Ride, I haven't ever watched doubles on Mute but there are plenty of famous matches on Rainbow Ride (Isai's come back on PC + King). Is the lag the same or more or Mute? I'm assuming it's more.

Depending on the characters involved, you can get quite the lag going on both stages. But I believe Mute City has more laggy combinations than RR.

Still, it is highly hypocritical to ban one and not the other on the grounds of lag.

 

[Luma]

well if RR can lag it has to be banned, even if it would be only with haveing like 4 ice climbers or something (you know what i mean)

just tested it: it does lag, needs a ban

 

[°UÇK]

any reason why you're so obsessed with this guy?

http://www.smashboards.com/converse.php?u=55283&u2=61389

Knew it. Way to obvious Ian, Cash, Anonymous., turtlecake, Rubyiris. Do what victra said.

Stagebans:
I think the quadruple IC combinations lags stages even not considered laggy but yeah, RR will get banned (even though I dislike). Melee Teams will have only one stage ban per team then.

 

[Yuna]

http://www.smashboards.com/converse.php?u=55283&u2=61389

Knew it. Way to obvious Ian, Cash, Anonymous., turtlecake, Rubyiris. Do what victra said.

Stagebans:
I think the quadruple IC combinations lags stages even not considered laggy but yeah, RR will get banned (even though I dislike). Melee Teams will have only one stage ban per team then.

What abour Brinstar? There is absolutely no reason to ban it, especially since it's never banned ever and Green Greens and Corneria sometimes are banned.

 

[VA]

Brinstar should be on, but RR is used in a lot of American tournaments. Maybe cos they know peach isn't going to be in the teams finals

 

[Tero.]

What's this **** about banning rainbow cruise in teams ?
that's riddiculous, that stage wasn't banned in teams since melee came out. stop whining that stage is perfectly fine

Counterpick Stages:
-Fountain of Dreams(banned in teams)
-Brinstar <-- BRINSTAR
-Kongo Jungle 64
-Mute City (banned in teams)
-Rainbow Cruise
-Poke Floats
-Jungle Japes
-Corneria
-Green Greens

Also why are you complaining about Brinstar not beeing in? Or do i miss something? *shrugs*

 

[°UÇK]

Also why are you complaining about Brinstar not beeing in? Or do i miss something? *shrugs*

qft. Brinstar is in. what are you talking about yuna?


Okaj, I checked RR again. I chose marth, roy, ganon & peach. The normal gameplay is fluent even with every character moving around or attacking but I think I have witnessed some lag (not hitlag, real slowdown) as the ship was "crashing" and sinking. But it doesnt affect the gameplay at all imo, its not like the stage is unplayable even for matchups of high rendered character much unlike FoD or mute city for example.
Even though this stage probably lags at times it doesnt mean this stage automatically banworthy due to the likelyhood of this expierence and not actually interfering with the gameplay. You also still have the option to ban 2 stages per teamswith RR allowed for melee doubles.

 

[Tero.]

qft. Brinstar is in. what are you talking about yuna?


Okaj, I checked RR again. I chose marth, roy, ganon & peach. The normal gameplay is fluent even with every character moving around or attacking but I think I have witnessed some lag (not hitlag, real slowdown) as the ship was "crashing" and sinking. But it doesnt affect the gameplay at all imo, its not like the stage is unplayable even for matchups of high rendered character much unlike FoD or mute city for example.
Even though this stage probably lags at times it doesnt mean this stage automatically banworthy due to the likelyhood of this expierence and not actually interfering with the gameplay. You also still have the option to ban 2 stages per teamswith RR allowed for melee doubles.

thank you.

The ruleset is pretty much ok now, I'd still like to have FoD as a neutral satge (because it was always neutral) but yeah w/e, it doesen't make a big difference anyway.

 

[Yuna]

qft. Brinstar is in. what are you talking about yuna?

Sorry, I missed Brinstar (somehow) when I checked the ruleset.

Okaj, I checked RR again. I chose marth, roy, ganon & peach.

Try throwing Fox in there or something. I believe we had noticeable lag pretty much throughout the match (or just whenever there was a lot of Shining) when we faced a team with at least one Fox (possibly two).

 

[Luma]

uck dont be stupid, RR does lag and it needs a ban

 

[VA]

Yeah that's why it's legal in America. it NEEDS ban. I don't agree with banning RR at all, I think it's a great doubles stage.

 

[Luma]

why should it care if it is allowed in america? there is a proof that the stage can lag, so it should be banned
otherwise mc should be unbanned aswell because it can be played without lag

if yuna and me do have the same arguments it def means something because normally i would never agree with him (sry just dont like you xD)

 

[Yuna]

Yeah that's why it's legal in America. it NEEDS ban. I don't agree with banning RR at all, I think it's a great doubles stage.

Then unban Mute City. Both lag. Banning one and not banning the other because of lag is hypocritical.

 

[VA]

A and B both have lag therefore A and B should both be banned. Not true. B lags less and has had many good matches on there, your applying logic without context. Luma read what UCK says. The lag on RR is marginal and situational, I'm using America as an example of this. Not saying, let's copy them! Just sayin' it works for them so it could work for us. Either way, I think RR should be on, but if it's not I don't mind too much just don't unban Mute.

 

[°UÇK]

Unlike Mutecity which is bound to have gameplay restaining lag Rainbow ride can and has been played without lag. It's cool to see you phil, chris and rob (somewhat) all agree on this topic but the lag is concerning only very certain character matchups and I rather see it as a personal preference but since this would affect the amount of bans of EVERY team I would like to hear some more opinions on this matter.
Stupid but democratic. thank you for your patience

 

[Luma]

well it doenst matter if it only lags for some chars
otherwise you could allow so many stages if you just put up a rule:

only banned if fox/falco is played

i hope you get what i mean

and about "there were so many great matches on it": so what, i've seen great matches with item and on mk2 aswell, doenst matter

 

[Yuna]

Unlike Mutecity which is bound to have gameplay restaining lag Rainbow ride can and has been played without lag. It's cool to see you phil, chris and rob (somewhat) all agree on this topic but the lag is concerning only very certain character matchups and I rather see it as a personal preference but since this would affect the amount of bans of EVERY team I would like to hear some more opinions on this matter.
Stupid but democratic. thank you for your patience

Then I say FoD, MC and RR are all banned only for team formations which lag.

Yes, all three. Yes, FoD can be played without lagging. Once any of the three stages has been chosen as a counterpick (FoD would be a CP) and each team has chosen their characters, go into the stage and see if it lags. If it does, a new stage must be chosen. If it doesn't, then play the match out.

Ban one, ban all. Muty City can be played with either marginal lag (as you argue as a reason for why RR shouldn't be banned) and even no lag.

I'm using America as an example of this.

Depending on where in America you go, King DeDeDe's normal running chaingrab might be banned (yes, it is banned in some regions).

Also, who cares if there were many good matches on RR? There have been many good teams matches on MC as well (I saw one with Wes' Samus vs. KrazyJones' Peach (I think) and their respective teammates, and it didn't lag).

 

[ajp_anton]

When I have time I'll run a 1-hour match on a few stages using 2vs2 computer teams, all being the one character that lags the most (not ICs as the number of chars alive varies). Then record everything and analyse the slowdown(s).

And even though I have seen lag on RR in teams, it happens much more often on MC. You can't use "A and B both lags" to put them in the same category. All stages can lag in certain situations (more or less extreme). You simply have to draw the line somewhere, and usually that happens to go somewhere between RR and MC.

edit:

go into the stage and see if it lags. If it does, a new stage must be chosen

And who decides if the lag is noticeable of not? The other team may not like the stage and can just say "hey it lags, we can't play this".

 

[VA]

Ah, I've never seen Mute City played in doubles. Regardless I don't think it's hypocritical having one and not the other anyway.

 

[Samochan]

Mute city lags on every team combination so badly it's unplayable. Same with FoD. Rainbow ride doesn't and only with specific team combinations it might lag a little bit. I dunno these team combinations, but I presume it has something to do with chars that have projectiles, disjointed hitboxes, double chars or chars that are big. But I've played matches on rainbow ride without any lag or any noticeable lag with peach/falco & fox/sheik teams.

But hey, how about this? If players notice rainbow ride lags in the beginning, the players may call on a stage switch but still follow the cp rules, aka player pick stage, winners change char and losers change char. Neither team/players is also forced to play on RR if they notice a lag in the beginning of the match (the lag should be noticeable with the first movement you can make and not just some parts of the stage).

This should only apply to Rainbow ride as it's completely playable in about 95% of the team combinations and rarely lags compared to FoD and especially mute city, but if it just happens to lag, players may call for a reset. I've never really played on FoD on teams without noticeable lag, neither mute, but I've played many matches on rainbow ride without any noticeable lag. In a dispute about lag one could call on TO to see whether it lags or not, if it doesn't restart the stage and if it does, new stage and possibly chars may be played. I got one tourney where we reset RR cause of stage lag, but my opponents called on it immediately as the game began and we just reset it. It was Peach/Peach and Marth/space animal I think.

But banning RR cause of some lag might be present in 10-5% of the matches and because FoD and Mute are banned for much more prominent lag is not a real reason to ban a stage. You can't just ban this cause this stage might do something similar. Like brinstar has hazard, but it's not in any way comparable to green greens hazard, for example. Stages should be evaluated individually and reasons such as "this and this stage is banned too" should not be the deciding factor in stage banning.

 

[°UÇK]

short question here. the wii has a faster processor than the cube has, does this make a difference concerning lag and gameplay etc?

I wont decide yet "since this would affect the amount of [stage] bans of EVERY team [and] I would like to hear some more opinions on this matter."

edit:

(...)
But hey, how about this? If players notice rainbow ride lags in the beginning, the players may call on a stage switch but still follow the cp rules

I think I witnessed lag as the ship crashes into the static part of the stage and sinks. Your proposal is good but wouldnt help i guess

 

[Yuna]

*random forum mishap*

 

[Samochan]

edit:
I think I witnessed lag as the ship crashes into the static part of the stage and sinks. Your proposal is good but wouldnt help i guess

Well many more stages could be banned by reasons of situational lag, as ajp already said. But the ship crash only happens about 2-3 times per game and it's not random, neither it is always recurring and depends of the characters on play (along with that it may happen less, since your teammate might be dead by the time 2nd or 3rd time rolls in).

 

[Yuna]

And who decides if the lag is noticeable of not? The other team may not like the stage and can just say "hey it lags, we can't play this".

A group of TOs trained in seeing whether or not a stage lags or not. After all, why should I have to suffer lag on Rainbow Ride if I just happen to run into the wrong team formations?

Mute city lags on every team combination so badly it's unplayable.

That is a blatant lie.

short question here. the wii has a faster processor than the cube has, does this make a difference concerning lag and gameplay etc?

AFAIK, no.

I wont decide yet "since this would affect the amount of [stage] bans of EVERY team [and] I would like to hear some more opinions on this matter."

Just keep it at one stage ban per team. Since when do we have two?

I think I witnessed lag as the ship crashes into the static part of the stage and sinks. Your proposal is good but wouldnt help i guess

I just proposed the exact same thing... only it would apply to all three Big Lags.

Well many more stages could be banned by reasons of situational lag, as ajp already said. But the ship crash only happens about 2-3 times per game and it's not random, neither it is always recurring and depends of the characters on play (along with that it may happen less, since your teammate might be dead by the time 2nd or 3rd time rolls in).

RR lags constantly for some team formations.