Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword SPOILERS Thread (SPOILERS I TELL YA)

[Phantom7]

What was said about the Shiekah? That they were followers of Hylia? What more beyond that?

That their duty given to them by the goddesses was to watch over the seal of Demise and make sure it doesn't give way to his power.

I wonder if that's what the eye means... that they're watching Demise's seal?

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

Skyward sword filled in a lot of Zelda story holes IMO, explaining a lot of things I've always wondered. Plus forging the master sword is such a...nice touch to the Zelda game.

 

[Phantom7]

After reading Fi's line, "I'll see you again in another life" I can never play another Zelda game (that features the Master Sword) the same way. It gives the Master Sword so much... life.

 

[etecoon]

I love the story in SS but I didn't like the whole Demise = Ganondorf thing. We'd had a similar idea of "what if Ganon was a demon that can be possessed by numerous people in history" explaining the Ganondorfs of OoT and FSA but I just didn't quite like the way it was executed. Still top 3 Zelda story though with Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening, SS gives me major anticipation for the series going forward in terms of storytelling as WW didn't quite hit me right except for the ending and TP was a bit too recycled for my tastes(good but too much "we've seen this before" in that game)

 

[Phantom7]

I love the story in SS but I didn't like the whole Demise = Ganondorf thing. We'd had a similar idea of "what if Ganon was a demon that can be possessed by numerous people in history" explaining the Ganondorfs of OoT and FSA but I just didn't quite like the way it was executed. Still top 3 Zelda story though with Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening, SS gives me major anticipation for the series going forward in terms of storytelling as WW didn't quite hit me right except for the ending and TP was a bit too recycled for my tastes(good but too much "we've seen this before" in that game)

SS was probably my favorite Zelda as far as storytelling goes. But what really did it for me was the character development. I absolutely love that Ghirahim's flamboyancy and asexual appearance can be associated with the fact that he's like a twisted, half-human existing only within his master's sword. It makes him seem so creepy and disgusting. And also, I've never felt more connected to Zelda before this game. It's like her character actually... meant something.

 

[etecoon]

Definitely best Zelda ever hands down, tbh I've actually DISliked most of the Zelda's before Skyward Sword's.

 

[Luigitoilet]

SS was probably my favorite Zelda as far as storytelling goes. But what really did it for me was the character development. I absolutely love that Ghirahim's flamboyancy and asexual appearance can be associated with the fact that he's like a twisted, half-human existing only within his master's sword. It makes him seem so creepy and disgusting. And also, I've never felt more connected to Zelda before this game. It's like her character actually... meant something.

Ghirahim is the opposite of asexual. I can't think of a more sexualized character in any of Nintendo's games.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Definitely best Zelda ever hands down, tbh I've actually DISliked most of the Zelda's before Skyward Sword's.

This so much.

 

[etecoon]

I think the word he was looking for is androgynous, though I wouldn't describe Ghirahim as that either, kind of effeminate but not "can't tell what gender this dude is" territory.

 

[MagmarFire]

I love the story in SS but I didn't like the whole Demise = Ganondorf thing.

To be fair, Demise implied that Ganon is an incarnation of his hatred, not that they're one and the same. ...Because, yeah, that would feel a little bit like a retcon, especially in light of The Wind Waker making us feel sympathy for Ganondorf, that he wasn't just some kind of power-hungry douche that just wanted to--you guessed it!--take over the world.

Definitely best Zelda ever hands down, tbh I've actually DISliked most of the Zelda's before Skyward Sword's.

Oh, dude, I hear ya. She has life. She's free-spirited and not staying behind and doing absolutely nothing, which has been gradually changing as the series went on. She's very much like Spirit Tracks!Zelda, whom I also really admire.

Spoiler

She's also soooooo cute. *shot*

I've not hated any Zelda in the series ever, but there's no doubt the latest two incarnations of her valiantly succeed in making you so completely attached to them within only a few seconds. Two minutes, tops.

 

[T-block]

After reading Fi's line, "I'll see you again in another life" I can never play another Zelda game (that features the Master Sword) the same way. It gives the Master Sword so much... life.

man that totally went over my head and i got the biggest nerd chills when i read this

 

[Luigitoilet]

it makes me sad to see regulars in this forum admitting to not even liking most Zelda games

 

[Spire]

I've begun to develop a liking for even Phantom Hourglass. I think all Zelda games are good games, but a good number of people have [ridiculously] high standards for the series, including yours truly. I'm trying to absolve myself of most of them.

 

[etecoon]

it makes me sad to see regulars in this forum admitting to not even liking most Zelda games

I was talking about Zelda the character, the only Zelda game I dislike is Phantom Hourglass.

And yeah, for how much Fi interferes with the game and annoys you, her departure is still pretty emotional. Great character minus Nintendo treating us like vegetables.

Standards for the Zelda series are a bit high but it comes with how consistent the series has been, core Mario games are really the only other series that have maintained such good quality for 20+ years.

 

[Phantom7]

I'm going to be honest, I was almost as teary during Fi's departure as I was when Zelda went to sleep. I was like holy crap... she felt emotion.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I was talking about Zelda the character, the only Zelda game I dislike is Phantom Hourglass.

And yeah, for how much Fi interferes with the game and annoys you, her departure is still pretty emotional. Great character minus Nintendo treating us like vegetables.

Standards for the Zelda series are a bit high but it comes with how consistent the series has been, core Mario games are really the only other series that have maintained such good quality for 20+ years.

Ahhhh!

In that case I wholeheartedly agree about Zelda.

I like the idea of Fi's character arc, but her end scene was not "earned" in my eyes. I felt nothing because the character was nothing, as far as personality is concerned. If Fi had had the strong characterization that Midna and Tatl had, or hell even just ANY characterization her final scene would have been quite moving.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Zelda was never lively or she just didn't appeal to me. That's all. I actually think all Zelda games I've played are well-made.

 

[Jam Stunna]

I've just about had it with Zelda sitting out the whole adventure. I think the whole "damsel in distress" thing is long past its prime. What would have been amazing was if instead of showing parts of Zelda's journey in the end credits, they'd shown them during the game. As Link does one thing, they show Zelda doing another, like a dual quest or something.

No matter how cool Zelda is, they ALWAYS sideline her. What's really funny is, when she has an alter ego she gets to kick ***, but then as soon as it's revealed that she's Zelda, then it becomes, "Well, time to go into hiding/get captured!" What good is a character if you keep her off screen for half the game?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Zelda wasn't a damsel in distress in SS though. She was definitely doing stuff and she didn't need 'saving' at all, Link pursued her for his own desires. Impa protected her and she even let Link know that Link wasn't good enough.

 

[Jam Stunna]

The point of the post wasn't just the damsel in distress thing (which did happen, both at the end and with Impa carrying Zelda's water), but that a great character was wasted.

I don't know, maybe it's just me. It's apparent that I'm on a completely different wavelength when it comes to this game.

 

[theeboredone]

Zelda wasn't a damsel in distress in SS though. She was definitely doing stuff and she didn't need 'saving' at all, Link pursued her for his own desires. Impa protected her and she even let Link know that Link wasn't good enough.

She would have been pretty screwed if Impa didn't come save her in the Fire dungeon. She was basically wandering around like a fool the whole time. I think it would have been cooler if Link and Zelda were traveling together the whole game. Would have made an interesting gameplay mechanic and story element.

I can't relate to the whole "Oh, Fi is with us the whole time." Is she in some sort of permanent sleep? Will she ever be "awakened"? And why the hell does she decide to show emotion in the last two minutes of the game when she had none of that for the first 40 hours I played? I get teary easily over anything when it comes to emotional scenes, but that part was so much BS that I was rolling my eyes at the cheesiness of what Nintendo did there.

 

[etecoon]

It's the old "robot learns emotion" trope. It was a bit cheesy but I still liked it. I doubt Fi will ever appear again given that there are probably thousands of years between SS and the last appearances of the master sword, it'd be really weird for Nintendo to throw in a game at the end of the timeline where she suddenly awakes

 

[theeboredone]

I'm fine if a robot decides to learn emotion...throughout the movie/show/game. However, to toss it in the last two minutes was as bad as when Arnold in Terminator 2 gave the lame thumbs up before he melted away.

 

[etecoon]

LOL that was exactly what I was thinking of, I almost mentioned T2 in that post. It definitely could have been executed better, I just didn't find it particularly egregious.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

The ending shows that it had been going on the entire game. She was recognizing it at the end. It all makes sense, why would a robotic figure, designed to assist you and assist you only, start about irrelevant things like emotion?

And no, Zelda traveling with us would've been extreme **** and would not make for an interesting game-play element.

 

[etecoon]

Anyone ever played ICO?

Brilliant game in a creative sense, I think it does a lot for gaming in terms of a model for storytelling through gameplay

But an entire game escort mission is not very fun.

 

[GwJ]

For the record, Ganondorf =/= Demise.

 

[theeboredone]

The ending shows that it had been going on the entire game. She was recognizing it at the end. It all makes sense, why would a robotic figure, designed to assist you and assist you only, start about irrelevant things like emotion?

And no, Zelda traveling with us would've been extreme **** and would not make for an interesting game-play element.

LOL! *****, please. It's crappy character development. Take those Nintendo fanboy goggles off. Why would a robotic figure, who practically annoys the hell out of you in a VERY ROBOTIC manner decide to display some sort of emotion in the last two minutes? It would have been way better if she steadily questioned her emotions and even interacted with Link about them about what she was feeling.
---------
Again, you guys are thinking of Zelda as a "damsel in distress." Isn't she supposed to carry some sort of magic or wisdom with her? It could be anything from assisting Link in solving dungeon puzzles where both have to work together to playing a role similar to how the chick from Prince of Persia (2008) played, in which she helps you access different locations.

If not for an interactive gameplay with both characters, at least having Zelda gameplay segments to see what she's up to, while not making her seem like a worthless character who needs saving would be fun as well.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Your argument is based on false assumptions. Who says I was annoyed by Fi? I know enough people who agree with me here and actually like her.
BUT HEY, THAT'S OUTSIDE THE REALM OF POSSIBILITIES FOR YOU, ISN'T IT?

I could go in on the rest of your arguments, but that would degrade into "my opinion is better than yours!!!111111oneoneleventy". Just know that your arguments are flawed as can be.

 

[theeboredone]

You're giving Nintendo way too much credit. You are inputting YOUR OWN story and characterization into the game. What Nintendo gave us, the product that was presented, and the characters that interacted...at no point...NO POINT did Fi show any hints of humanization. If this is acceptable, then what Terminator did is genius. What any movie, show, or game...where something comes out of left field with anything making sense is acceptable.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

k .

 

[etecoon]

I did agree that it could be better executed but I think you're being overly harsh and not really giving this a lot of thought. There is a change in circumstance in the parting ways, a lot of things can come out under different circumstance that people keep to themselves when the status quo is maintained. And PEOPLE don't even always show their emotions, so expecting an artificial intelligence to immediately understand and convey new feelings that may have been well beneath the surface and not perceived to begin with, it's not necessarily going to happen like that.

 

[theeboredone]

The reason I am being harsh is because no one else is. Games like Zelda always get a pass when other games or other forms of media get criticized for it. Brand name goes so far for this series that it's just plain ridiculous. Was this the best told story for a Zelda game? Absolutely. No question about that. HOWEVER, for whatever reason, that is good enough for everyone. No way does the story telling hold a candle to other games that have set standards higher. Yet hardly anyone gives a crap.

It's so evident that every review I've read, and has awarded it a perfect score, critics are either reeking of being a fanboy of this Nintendo product, or trying to oppose all of this for the sake of being cool (Gamespot.) There is no attempt at objectivity.

So when I say Fi's sudden human development was left field? Guess what? It was. Again, at no point in the game did they suggest she was developing such feelings. However, because it's Nintendo and Zelda, no one gives a rat's *** about it. Any other game, there would be people saying "WTF WAS THAT?"

 

[Luigitoilet]

I'm fine if a robot decides to learn emotion...throughout the movie/show/game. However, to toss it in the last two minutes was as bad as when Arnold in Terminator 2 gave the lame thumbs up before he melted away.

What the hell? T2 is one of the only things I've seen to effectively pull this trope off well. Comparing Fi to the T-800 is a serious insult to Terminator 2.

The ending shows that it had been going on the entire game.

Maybe, but having a couple of lines of text about "this feeling emotion that's called happiness" does not suddenly make any of your previous reactions with Fi any less cold and impersonal. It's easy for a character to just say something, but it doesn't carry any weight if it is never supported by the character's actions.

It all makes sense, why would a robotic figure, designed to assist you and assist you only, start about irrelevant things like emotion?

I have two theories:

1. When Demise (and I'm assuming Ghirahim) was absorbed into the Master Sword at the end, it's possible this could have influenced Fi's "psyche" in some way. Ghirahim and Fi are implied to be opposites. Ghirahim is passionate and emotional (as an extension, Demise is also implied to be powered by emotion) and Fi is stoic and disassociated. I don't think it's a large stretch to say that Ghirahim and Demise's essence changed Fi, allowing for the capacity for emotion...in fact, this is the only way that Fi could conceivably be seen to be a passable character in my eyes.

or

2. Nintendo realized that making Fi cold and objective in the most extreme manner possible that they set themselves up for failure in regards to the emotional impact inevitable departure of her and Link. They had to do something to make it more dramatic so they threw a couple vague lines about emotion out there and called it a day.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

So when I say Fi's sudden human development was left field? Guess what? It was.

hurrdurr when i say something it is right

but i digress. this argument leads nowhere and im just being mad and you happened to be dumb so yeah 1+1=these posts

 

[Luigitoilet]

Brosuke stop crap posting. This only reason this argument doesn't lead anywhere is because of your attitudes.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Have you taken a look at that ike guys posts? It's literally saying "what I say is right" without argument. The fact that he makes it a few paragraphs long doesn't change that it's crap. If you're holding me to that standard, you should hold him to it too.

 

[etecoon]

Was this the best told story for a Zelda game? Absolutely. No question about that.

I think I'd give this to Link's Awakening or Majora's Mask personally, LA really since I look at MM more like a collection of short stories taking place in the same time period/place than a single good story. Maybe I'm alone but I don't think LA's story gets nearly the respect it deserves.

It's so evident that every review I've read, and has awarded it a perfect score, critics are either reeking of being a fanboy of this Nintendo product, or trying to oppose all of this for the sake of being cool (Gamespot.) There is no attempt at objectivity.

I agree that people give it a free pass but not so much on the story, I think the game got a free pass on it's controls and flow(Fi interruptions, slow text, constant cutscenes and camera zooms for things that didn't need them at all etc). Granted these things have been criticized, but this was mostly fan backlash that came AFTER the major publications all gave SS perfect or near perfect scores.

 

[theeboredone]

What the hell? T2 is one of the only things I've seen to effectively pull this trope off well. Comparing Fi to the T-800 is a serious insult to Terminator 2.

Lol, it's been a long time since I watched that movie, though fair point. At least T8 shows hints of emotion and such throughout the movie.

I have two theories:

1. When Demise (and I'm assuming Ghirahim) was absorbed into the Master Sword at the end, it's possible this could have influenced Fi's "psyche" in some way. Ghirahim and Fi are implied to be opposites. Ghirahim is passionate and emotional (as an extension, Demise is also implied to be powered by emotion) and Fi is stoic and disassociated. I don't think it's a large stretch to say that Ghirahim and Demise's essence changed Fi, allowing for the capacity for emotion...in fact, this is the only way that Fi could conceivably be seen to be a passable character in my eyes.

I think that's a bit too deep for Nintendo. Then again, they did pull out the triple timeline so...

2. Nintendo realized that making Fi cold and objective in the most extreme manner possible that they set themselves up for failure in regards to the emotional impact inevitable departure of her and Link. They had to do something to make it more dramatic so they threw a couple vague lines about emotion out there and called it a day.

This is better.

I think I'd give this to Link's Awakening or Majora's Mask personally, LA really since I look at MM more like a collection of short stories taking place in the same time period/place than a single good story. Maybe I'm alone but I don't think LA's story gets nearly the respect it deserves.

Well, it's been ages since I played LA, but I did play MM this past Summer. I would say MM does a good job in story telling from a text aspect, and SS does it better from a cinematic aspect.

I agree that people give it a free pass but not so much on the story, I think the game got a free pass on it's controls and flow(Fi interruptions, slow text, constant cutscenes and camera zooms for things that didn't need them at all etc). Granted these things have been criticized, but this was mostly fan backlash that came AFTER the major publications all gave SS perfect or near perfect scores.

Well, there are definitely other issues I have with this game. I actually have a giant list of things that bothered me, and when I look back at them, I really don't understand why this game got so many perfect scores.

Have you taken a look at that ike guys posts? It's literally saying "what I say is right" without argument. The fact that he makes it a few paragraphs long doesn't change that it's crap. If you're holding me to that standard, you should hold him to it too.

You know...when I say the word "Why" in my arguments...I am looking for a counter point or an answer to my question, because I don't see the validity in such things.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Have you taken a look at that ike guys posts? It's literally saying "what I say is right" without argument. The fact that he makes it a few paragraphs long doesn't change that it's crap. If you're holding me to that standard, you should hold him to it too.

He's expressing his opinion on an aspect of this game and Nintendo in general. You might not like his opinion on it but he's at least putting forth debate points. You on the other hand are just posting passive-aggressive substance-less posts like

k.

and then just outright insulting him. you are definitely far being far worse in this situation. let's talk about this game some more.

About general storytelling, I definitely don't think Skyward Sword is the best in the series. I'm not sure if Majora's Mask will ever be topped in that regard. Skyward Sword is a big improvement over Twilight Princess' convoluted boring mess, but I'd put it about on par with OoT or WW in terms of storytelling.

I very much appreciated the minimalist approach of the narrative. There really isn't a whole lot of things that happen in the game as far as big plot points go. I thought that was a refreshing change of pace. I really enjoyed thet languid pace of the plot. I liked discovering all the little societies like the Mogmas and robots without the constant emphasis on the main plot. I was mostly allowed to be more preoccupied with just exploring the levels instead of advancing the plot. Many times, simple is better.