Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword SPOILERS Thread (SPOILERS I TELL YA)

[Jam Stunna]

The tadtones section is one of the most blatant examples of filler in the game, so alot of people point to it when they start complaining. I absolutely hated it, but I do think there are worse examples in SS (the robot escort mission immediately comes to mind).

I dunno maybe I'm just an angry old man but I feel like it was better in the days when most games would drop you in a world and make you figure things out yourself and use good level design to show you the way. When a game drops tutorial after tutorial on you I just start losing interest

I started replaying LttP, and the difference between old Zelda design and new Zelda design couldn't be starker. Within twenty minutes I'd already completed one dungeon and was entering the second one, I already had my sword, shield, torch, boomerang and four hearts. And all that with dialogue that scrolled by the line, not by the word!

 

[etecoon]

Tadtones are blatant filler but there's still less filler in SS than in WW or TP I'd say, so it's less offensive to me. I don't like that part of the game much but it's not the worst thing about it IMO

And yeah that's exactly what I was talking about. You still see it in some indie games and a few other rare examples but on the whole games used to be much faster because they weren't designed to hold your hand the whole way, you just pick it up and play. This is a brilliant video on this subject

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM

 

[theeboredone]

Man, Egoraptor needs to make a new episode already. I subscribed to him for no reasons. The videos he "likes" or "favorites" are some of the weirdest **** ever.

 

[etecoon]

Yeah, I subscribed after someone linked me to that video and since then I think the only vid of his I've watched was where he had a blind bird hanging out on his porch...

 

[theeboredone]

So, another joke on Fi.

http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/996

 

[etecoon]

Hahaha I love it. It's so frustrating too because SS is otherwise brilliant, it really should be either the best or second best in the series for me but the baggage knocks it down a good 3-5 spots

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I dunno maybe I'm just an angry old man but I feel like it was better in the days when most games would drop you in a world and make you figure things out yourself and use good level design to show you the way. When a game drops tutorial after tutorial on you I just start losing interest

I can definitely agree with this, but look at where we are in the current age of gaming.

One of the most important aspects of a game these days is accessibility. Everyone should be able to play it. That said, I thought Fi was really cute with the constant percentage analysis and obvious statements, they played that off extremely well in my opinion. I really grew on her. It makes sense too, as she is sorta a robot.

That said, I think there should've been more customization. Making your own HUD, adjusting difficulty from the get-go, how often Fi appears, text scrolling speed. While all of them didn't bother me, I can see how they bother others.

On the subject of blatant fillers, I know that feeling. When the Leviathan guy told me I had to find three pieces at the different dragons, I sighed. I was looking up to the task, as it was blatant filler. But guess what, it was fun, and I was extremely glad that they included those parts in the game. It made the game bigger, made for more game play and fun. Give me more of that blatant filler if it means I'll have more fun, because damn, I only paid 60 euros for the whole package.

That said, I completed this game in less than 35 hours. I didn't do any sidequests, I'll do a hero mode run some time later, and try to experience everything.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I didn't mind the tadtones. It's hard to call something padding or filler when it is something you haven't done in the game before that point. The real issue is that something like that doesn't feel like it should be at the end of the game. It's so casual and relaxed that it should be near the beginning or middle imo. Near the end all I really wanted to do was kill the bad guy and beat the game, or at least be doing something really epic.

 

[etecoon]

I don't see what accessibility has to do with anything, we're talking about basic cognitive ability here. The amount of written instructions that it forces you to read make the game less accessible if anything...

Fi's personality is good, I really don't mind her outside of the "living tutorial" part. I agree that options would have dramatically improved the game especially on replay, all of that stuff still being present even in hero mode seriously hurt my impression of the game and the prospect of replaying it many times. Text speed and optional hints alone would have gone a long way towards assuring that the game is truly accessible.

While we're talking about options I also think Zelda games are long overdue for some basic audio options, replaying the other games atm and I've found that I really don't like the volume balance in a few of them, in WW and TP if I'm trying to play quietly at night I have to turn it down until the music is inaudible in order to get the SFX to a good level

Nitpicking the whole series at this point but I think these are good things for me to keep in mind for JS's project

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I don't see what accessibility has to do with anything, we're talking about basic cognitive ability here. The amount of written instructions that it forces you to read make the game less accessible if anything...

...How? Do you think an 8 year old boy likes being stuck in a room?
I know that for example in the lava/fire/earth temple thing, where you have to jump down, I completely forgot that I had to take a leap of faith there. Took me a long while. Now I don't stop easily and start checking everything, but not everyone does that.

While we're talking about options I also think Zelda games are long overdue for some basic audio options, replaying the other games atm and I've found that I really don't like the volume balance in a few of them, in WW and TP if I'm trying to play quietly at night I have to turn it down until the music is inaudible in order to get the SFX to a good level

Word.

 

[Spire]

On the subject of the Tadtones being an annoyance: we got to swim around Faron Woods! How awesome was that?

It was a totally different method of navigating a familiar area. I hope they take risks like this more often with the series. It's one thing to raise the water level in an indoor environment, but to do so for an exterior world space? While they're ultimately the same principle: rooms with bounds, flooding a forest is a lot more interesting than flooding a temple.

 

[etecoon]

...How? Do you think an 8 year old boy likes being stuck in a room?
I know that for example in the lava/fire/earth temple thing, where you have to jump down, I completely forgot that I had to take a leap of faith there. Took me a long while. Now I don't stop easily and start checking everything, but not everyone does that.

I got stuck a few times in LTTP when I was like 7 and I never swore off the game because of it, if you're going to tell the player every little thing to do then why even give them control to begin with? If something takes time and effort to figure out you feel better when you complete it, you're robbing the players of that sense of accomplishment when you have the assistant tell them what to do every other step and use suggestive camera zooms and such.

edit: Swimming around Faron Woods is indeed pretty neat even as much as I hate the swimming controls, probably a lot of why I really don't have a problem with the tadtones segment of the game.

Also to this day I still haven't beaten the original LoZ and I still hold a great amount of respect for that game and spent a pretty good amount of time playing it when I was very young. The game really gives you no idea what the hell you're supposed to do and you can go all around the world from the get go and it's pretty awesome like that, I never beat it but I had a lot of fun just wandering around. I should go back and finish that soon...

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

LoZ1 is just on an entirely different level from any game I ever played.

 

[etecoon]

It's funny how different it is from the other games, in many ways it more closely resembles an early version of The Elder Scrolls than a modern Zelda game.

 

[T-block]

I actually came to like Fi quite a bit too... only aspect of her I didn't like was how she felt the need to alert you when your hearts were low, but whatever.

I didn't mind the tadtones. It's hard to call something padding or filler when it is something you haven't done in the game before that point. The real issue is that something like that doesn't feel like it should be at the end of the game. It's so casual and relaxed that it should be near the beginning or middle imo. Near the end all I really wanted to do was kill the bad guy and beat the game, or at least be doing something really epic.

On the subject of the Tadtones being an annoyance: we got to swim around Faron Woods! How awesome was that?

It was a totally different method of navigating a familiar area. I hope they take risks like this more often with the series. It's one thing to raise the water level in an indoor environment, but to do so for an exterior world space? While they're ultimately the same principle: rooms with bounds, flooding a forest is a lot more interesting than flooding a temple.

These are fair points. My main issue is that it wasn't fun lol... it felt much more like a chore than any other part of the game. Even the robot escort was enjoyable to some extent. But maybe that's just me.

I can't help but feel that a large reason behind why the game explicitly shows you certain features of a room once you walk in is because of the infamy that OoT Water Temple gained lol... in the 3DS version, after you raise the water in the centre room, it immediately shows you the newly opened passage at the bottom haha. In any case, I didn't mind so much... sure, it was unnecessary sometimes, but the puzzles still felt rewarding in the end.

 

[etecoon]

The next time I hear someone complain about the water temple I must chastise them for ruining gaming...

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Could you ever go back and flood the place again in the same save file? They could have easily turned that into a time trial like they did with the hero's trials collecting the tears.

 

[theeboredone]

While I am neutral on the swimming controls, and I thought flooding the place was cool...I sort of agree with LT. Tadtones came at the wrong time, and at that point, it felt like unnecessary filler.

I mean good lord stupid annoying water dragon, how many times do I have to "prove myself?"

 

[MagmarFire]

Yeah, in retrospect, Faron was kind of a jerk. She must be the foil to Eldin and Lanayru, who are pretty cool guys. Ehty teachz u songz as soon as they can and doesn't afraid of anything.

I understand some of the hate about the escort mission (namely, the part with the two Lizalfos), but other than that, I don't see why. The game doesn't present many new opportunities to snipe enemies from a distance with your bow, which is perfect for that mission, and from what I see, that was a positive point for many people with Twilight Princess with the Bokoblin base.

 

[etecoon]

I had no problems with the escort mission, you can snipe off enemies before they ever become a problem and the bow is better in this game than it's ever been before, it's actually fun.

Protecting the sealed temple from the second form of the imprisoned on the other hand...

 

[ZIO]

Man, that escort mission was easy. i did that yesterday when I was playing on Hero Mode.

Even the Lizalfos part was not hard when I had a bottle of that pollen. forgot the name. I just jumped down, let loose the pollen, they were paralyzed immediately. Then proceeded to make quick work of them.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Imprisoned was a drag, but it was truly threatening.

 

[WindMajor]

It's understandable why we had to fight him numerous times though, similarly to why we had to fight Ghirahim numerous times. It's kind of a drag, but at the very least, it makes sense. You can kind of level with Link there too, cause Link is probably thinking the same thing, lol. I'm just glad that the Imprisoned boss got increasingly more difficult after each time. Even though I know exactly what to do against him, actually pulling off a win against Imprisoned 2 and 3 is still challenging. Ghirahim was the same to a lesser extent. I wish when Ghirahim said that he wouldn't play around anymore, he would actually stop playing around. It's cool that he's good at counter-attacking, but I figured that if he was going to take his gloves off because of you, he might as well get his hands dirty and beat your ****.

 

[Jam Stunna]

For me, the difficulty or tedium of the tadtones or escort mission is the secondary concern. What really bothers me is how blatant it is that those sections were added only to make the game longer; when you used the robot every other time in the game, you dropped exactly where you needed to go except for that time. Flooding Faron Woods was fine, but geez, it's like someone said, "You know what people really liked about WW? The Triforce hunt! We should definitely have a section like that in SS!"

And I really think the Girahim/Imprisoned fights were lazy. There are no words to describe how profoundly disappointed I was that Girahim was the boss in the Fire Sanctuary, and that he wasn't that different from the first time you fought him. Girahim round 3 was awesome though. And **** the Imprisoned. There was nothing fun to me about any of those fights, and by the third time I was actually angry.

Just in case you weren't keeping count, we fought three bosses a total of eight times in SS. The only other Zelda game I can think of that even comes close to that was when you fought Aghanim twice in LttP.

 

[MagmarFire]

^ I see your Imprisoned and Ghirahim, and I raise you six fights with Vanitas in Birth by Sleep, and that doesn't even include the Vanitas Remnant. Skyward Sword comes kind of close, using the recurring boss trope and all, of course, but still.

 

[T-block]

oh yeah the imprisoned was meh... i thought it was way easier the third time though o.o you only have to do that cycle once for the third fight.

i liked all the ghirahim fights... didn't really bother me that it was recycled.

scaldera was fun though =x

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Scaldera was when I wasn't completely used to item selecting, and I ****ed that up big-time the first time I tried. Needless to say, I had to adapt quick. Afterwards I never had problems with that stuff at all.

Third Imprisoned was easy but I thought I had to bomb open the way to his bomb supply or something. It wasn't until I asked Fi before the fight for the fourth time or something that I learned you have to fire yourself.
Thank you, Fi <3

 

[theeboredone]

I manage to do both. Bomb the rubble AND get on the launcher in the same fight. Too good.

 

[MagmarFire]

Somehow, I remember just getting into the Groosinator after talking to Groose and knew that I had to launch myself.

...I don't know what possessed me to do it, either.

 

[ZIO]

i like how the skyward strike has no charge after collecting the flames in hero mode. its the little things that make think they tried to sweeten the deal for doin hero mode.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

The third imprisoned is a MASSIVE joke. During the Boss Rush on the Hero Mode I remember fighting him and got onto the catapult to launch myself, was all hasty to not lose over something silly like this battle, and I launched myself OVER him and landed at the bottom.

I made it all the way back up and the dude was still basically in the same position. Way too freaking easy.

But I do agree they need to come up with more bosses to use instead of recycling, the second Ghirahim was definitely uncalled for.

 

[MagmarFire]

I had a similar experience with the Imprisoned's third form. Twice.

The first time, I was on his head with literally one strike away from winning. ...But then it ate the old lady.

 

[SSBMLahti]

Just finished (and 100%'ed the game today). Mad good. But mad easy. 'Tis all.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

This game...I finally 100%ed it. Well i didn't do Hero Mode, but honestly...meh.

The story though, oh my it's soooo good. I don't know what it is, but Demise is just...amazing.

 

[NatP]

I just want to say one thing: Groose is awesome. I'm not even kidding. Best character development I've seen in a while!

 

[GwJ]

I agree. Groose was a beautiful character.

 

[MagmarFire]

The story though, oh my it's soooo good. I don't know what it is, but Demise is just...amazing.

Someone else who understands! :'D

I'm not sure if the story's been this good since Majora's Mask and The Wind Waker. The games afterward had decent stories (especially Twilight Princess, though predictable), but Skyward Sword... *dies of happiness*

 

[ZIO]

I honestly don't remember much of a story. There was the intro. Then the beginning. Then there was Zelda's explanation after you've collected all the flames. And then we meet Demise and he says what he needs. Then the end implies some have migrated to the surface.



That's over simplifying it, I'm sure, but nothing really stands out to blow me away other than when Zelda said she was Hylia. At that point I was like "OH ****! They were all Hylia!"

 

[Phantom7]

I honestly don't remember much of a story. There was the intro. Then the beginning. Then there was Zelda's explanation after you've collected all the flames. And then we meet Demise and he says what he needs. Then the end implies some have migrated to the surface.



That's over simplifying it, I'm sure, but nothing really stands out to blow me away other than when Zelda said she was Hylia. At that point I was like "OH ****! They were all Hylia!"

The role of the Sheikah was explained... did that not mean anything to you? Oh, and I thought I was going to cry when Zelda went to sleep.

EDIT: Looooong time since I've been here. Anybody remember me? lol

 

[ZIO]

What was said about the Shiekah? That they were followers of Hylia? What more beyond that?