D. Disciple
Smash Master
Just like me Zucco lol. I just do my preset game style against him and other characters if I don't know the actual match up and it works out for me.
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SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess
- Thread starter #HBC | Red Ryu
- Start date
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
My preset style isn't good enough.
Do stuff and hope they get hit is bad.
Do stuff and hope they get hit is bad.
ShippoFoxFire
Smash Lord
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Let's put it this way.
Is it as bad as Delphino/RC? No.
Is it going to be a good CP? If it's against a good DDD, probably not.
Is it as bad as Delphino/RC? No.
Is it going to be a good CP? If it's against a good DDD, probably not.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Kirby's hard if you don't know what you are doing, or if you get dooped and get ninjaspiked offstage.
Otherwise Kirby's pretty much gimmicks and bair.
Unless you're Chudat lol, Junebug hates playing him.
I used to play Timmy's Kirby until he went more MK when there's MUs he doesn't like so...
yeah
Otherwise Kirby's pretty much gimmicks and bair.
Unless you're Chudat lol, Junebug hates playing him.
I used to play Timmy's Kirby until he went more MK when there's MUs he doesn't like so...
yeah
junebug
Smash Journeyman
kirby beats lucario. D:
like seriously.
too bad there's hardly any kirbies around these days. (smirk)
like seriously.
too bad there's hardly any kirbies around these days. (smirk)
Pitbuller26
Smash Lord
I wish I could've played Chudat when he was here, but the Montebello crew(me included) were his bodyguards.
What do we avoid: **** that bair. Don't be like me and misjudge the range of the hammer.
She fulfills the "Just as planned" meme better
What do we avoid: **** that bair. Don't be like me and misjudge the range of the hammer.
She fulfills the "Just as planned" meme better
ksizl4life
Smash Hero
i planned to play chu but he quits. i shouldved money matched him at pound or mlg. i think i'd win though. you do have more experience so ill assume its toughkirby beats lucario. D:
like seriously.
too bad there's hardly any kirbies around these days. (smirk)
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
Kirby is ****ing annoying
its either his favor slightly or a reallly reallly annoying "50-50" like fox.
its either his favor slightly or a reallly reallly annoying "50-50" like fox.
Aurasmash14
Smash Lord
- Joined
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- 1,540
somehow we just cant stay on one subject can we?
so what, ROB or kirby?
so what, ROB or kirby?
iDeo
Smash Journeyman
Hmmmm, Rob I'm not too familiar with but I can say is that Lucario players will have to profile a bit while battling. What I mean is see how the Rob reacts in certain situations. We're all under the assumption that Rob players have the habit of spot dodging but I'm sure they've changed up a bit.
I think Lucario players should stay mobile during this MU because hanging back is gonna lead to Robs camping us and helps to avoid the broken fast tilts he has when he starts approaching. Another thing is to sense the spot dodge and punish with a charge smash attack; we have lasting frames so it should connect on his way out. Hold on to his beyblade when he shoots to limit his spamming and force his approaches.
As for his aerial game, its best when ur recovering to not air dodge close to him which is pretty obvious unless you wanna get punished by any of his crazy aerials. I can't really say there is a counter to this but just be mindful of it.
I think Lucario players should stay mobile during this MU because hanging back is gonna lead to Robs camping us and helps to avoid the broken fast tilts he has when he starts approaching. Another thing is to sense the spot dodge and punish with a charge smash attack; we have lasting frames so it should connect on his way out. Hold on to his beyblade when he shoots to limit his spamming and force his approaches.
As for his aerial game, its best when ur recovering to not air dodge close to him which is pretty obvious unless you wanna get punished by any of his crazy aerials. I can't really say there is a counter to this but just be mindful of it.
Fogo
Smash Shinigami
Junebug post + Kira = Win.
Dark 3nergy
Smash Hero
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thank you your doing me a great servicekirby beats lucario. D:
like seriously.
too bad there's hardly any kirbies around these days. (smirk)
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When are we going to discuss ROB so I can finally have that bonding time I promised my family? D:
iDeo
Smash Journeyman
i gave my input above, just add to it so we can keep it going.
i think the kirby MU is 50:50.
but let's stick to ROB plz.
ShippoFoxFire
Smash Lord
Rob's annoying, semi-approach him, so camp him, IN HIS FACE :o
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Grab his gyro and charge AS.
It's silly how half his camp game goes with the Gyro confiscated.
It's silly how half his camp game goes with the Gyro confiscated.
#HBC | Red Ryu
Red Fox Warrior
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If I get bored I glide toss it back at him, I want Lucario to be able to do something with a glide toss. :/
ShippoFoxFire
Smash Lord
Grab Gyro and Spam Specials
-Advice Cario-
Camp Rob
-Advice Cario-
Camp Rob
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
omg I had the best idea.
In every export, an advice Lucario summarizes the MU ala memegenerator.net lol
I love this idea. We should definitely go for it.
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
I should do the images.
AlexoftheAura
yaylatias.gif
I will love you forever if you do this <3
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
ShippoFoxFire
Smash Lord
I helped :3
Advice cario needs a face...
Lets find one.
starturd's angry-cario in bad matchups.
and Alex's yay cario in good matchups
Advice cario needs a face...
Lets find one.
starturd's angry-cario in bad matchups.
and Alex's yay cario in good matchups
MythTrainerInfinity
Smash Champion
I asked the ROBs to help out with the match-up discussion.
Comparing frame data... (their's http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255281 )
Wow their Jab and DTilt comes out on frame 3?
Also their spot dodge to DSmash is silly. If frame perfect we have a window of 9 frames to hit them.
Their FTilt comes out on frame 7.
Hmmm it looks like they can really hassle us if we try to attack them while both of us are grounded.
They also seem to be uncertain if their air moves autocancel... So that's not gonna help. It seems to be missing his specials too...
Soooooo, up close...
Both grounded and close: He likely wins
In the air (us) vs. grounded (them): we hassle them pretty well as along as we don't fall into one of his smashes.
Close combat in the air: His UAir and FAir come out frame 7, NAir frame 18, and BAir frame 11, so if we are quick with our FAir or DAir we will hit him before he hits us.
Comparing frame data... (their's http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255281 )
Wow their Jab and DTilt comes out on frame 3?
Also their spot dodge to DSmash is silly. If frame perfect we have a window of 9 frames to hit them.
Their FTilt comes out on frame 7.
Hmmm it looks like they can really hassle us if we try to attack them while both of us are grounded.
They also seem to be uncertain if their air moves autocancel... So that's not gonna help. It seems to be missing his specials too...
Soooooo, up close...
Both grounded and close: He likely wins
In the air (us) vs. grounded (them): we hassle them pretty well as along as we don't fall into one of his smashes.
Close combat in the air: His UAir and FAir come out frame 7, NAir frame 18, and BAir frame 11, so if we are quick with our FAir or DAir we will hit him before he hits us.
Since when is 5+4 = 4?
ROB beats us on the ground in terms of spacing and overall attack speed. We beat him in the air. We can juggle him for a long, long time, as well.
Matchup hasn't changed at all in forever. <<
MythTrainerInfinity
Smash Champion
Ah good catch. You're right. I'll edit that...
The thing is we have not analyzed frame data. The benefit of looking at frame data is to see if we have any extra opportunities and if what we are doing is unsafe or not.
The thing is we have not analyzed frame data. The benefit of looking at frame data is to see if we have any extra opportunities and if what we are doing is unsafe or not.
ShippoFoxFire
Smash Lord
Camp next to him, the azen way.
He camps so hard...in your face :3
Anyway, yeah, utilt/uthrow(dthrow is very hard to read) to launch rob up and attack accordingly.
He camps so hard...in your face :3
Anyway, yeah, utilt/uthrow(dthrow is very hard to read) to launch rob up and attack accordingly.
MythTrainerInfinity
Smash Champion
Frame data does help.
Until I compared the data for Lucario vs. Snake, I did not realize we actually have a frame advantage if we roll behind him when he uses UTilt (38 frames, our roll is 32 frames) then we could do a 6 frame move (Jab or Grab). Its somewhat risky, but I did not know we actually had a frame advantage.
Some people handle things differently. I as a player like to have frame data backing up my actions as it makes me feel more comfortable doing them.
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Yeah, ROB can be a real pain in the *** if you can’t keep your ground game to a minimum. But lucky for you guys, Sakurai gave ROB his awkward frame.
Ok, so, here’s the number one rule in this matchup: GET THE GYRO
Seriously guys, it’s like, the easiest thing you can do to make this match up’s tide jump to 60:40 in your favor. I’d say a good 75-80% of his gameplay(more accurate figures to come later) is made up entirely by his superb control of his Gyro.
Obviously, Gyro is abused because ROB has one of the best glidetosses in the game. If done correctly, a glidetoss can cover half of FD. What you’ll see ROB use the most is a forward glidetoss to either a FSmash or a grab to a BThrow or FThrow. And that is something you most definitely do not want, as they are ROB’s strongest throws in terms of knockback. Just get a hold of the Gyro and try to hold on to it as long as possible.
Another thing ROBs might do is simply throw a Gyro at you to interrupt your approach. This isn’t used very often because most of Lucario’s aerials outprioritize a weak Gyro/if you’re at a high enough percent, but you should still be at least a little wary of it because a Gyro throw to a SHNair can really hurt you.
Which brings us to another point: Nair. Nair is easily one of ROB’s best killing moves, if not, his best aerial killer. Its hitbox is big and comes out fairly quick, and it can lead to an easy bubble kill if a ROB chases after you with his UpB. ROB can also use it to guard his tricky blind spots. But seeing as it's one of his most abused aerials, you could have a chance of reading it and throwing out a Fair first.
Although, once Nair is staled and becomes read, ROB still has Bair and Fair. Fair is ********, because you can pull out two of them in a SH, it comes out fast, has decent priority and damage, and can trip you if you're grounded. A ROB will also use it to WoP you into thhe blastlines. And Bair is just silly for the mere fact that its hitbox covers pretty much all of ROB's hurtbox and can slightly help his recovery.
Roflcopter is lol. This is why you can use your BAS as he uses his Gyro. He can't reflect it reliably and it has a good chance of beating out his Fair and Gyro.
FTilt is not your friend. ROB will use it to **** with your approaches, poke you, outprioritize you, poke you, and hit you out of your SH aerials. And poke you. Just PS or something, there's really not much you can do about this imo.
DTilt is weird. If a ROB crouches all the way to DTilt, it takes the same amount of frames as does a DSmash. It takes one frame to crouch, and DTilt hitbox comes out on the third frame, whereas DSmash's hitbox come out on the fourth frame. You might not see this too much except for some shield poking.
When dealing with SDDSmash, don't be dumb and try to buffer a shield/grab/whatever. It comes out too quick. Invincibility from SD starts on frame 2, and the move can be IASAd on frame 26, a full 10 frames before the animation ends. And since DSmash's hitbox come out on frame 3, if the ROB is frame perfect, you've only got nine frames to hit ROB, as Kita said. If you've got his Gyro, DI out of it or wait until the moce ends to hit him in his endlag.
--
I'll post some moar later.
Ok, so, here’s the number one rule in this matchup: GET THE GYRO
Seriously guys, it’s like, the easiest thing you can do to make this match up’s tide jump to 60:40 in your favor. I’d say a good 75-80% of his gameplay(more accurate figures to come later) is made up entirely by his superb control of his Gyro.
Obviously, Gyro is abused because ROB has one of the best glidetosses in the game. If done correctly, a glidetoss can cover half of FD. What you’ll see ROB use the most is a forward glidetoss to either a FSmash or a grab to a BThrow or FThrow. And that is something you most definitely do not want, as they are ROB’s strongest throws in terms of knockback. Just get a hold of the Gyro and try to hold on to it as long as possible.
Another thing ROBs might do is simply throw a Gyro at you to interrupt your approach. This isn’t used very often because most of Lucario’s aerials outprioritize a weak Gyro/if you’re at a high enough percent, but you should still be at least a little wary of it because a Gyro throw to a SHNair can really hurt you.
Which brings us to another point: Nair. Nair is easily one of ROB’s best killing moves, if not, his best aerial killer. Its hitbox is big and comes out fairly quick, and it can lead to an easy bubble kill if a ROB chases after you with his UpB. ROB can also use it to guard his tricky blind spots. But seeing as it's one of his most abused aerials, you could have a chance of reading it and throwing out a Fair first.
Although, once Nair is staled and becomes read, ROB still has Bair and Fair. Fair is ********, because you can pull out two of them in a SH, it comes out fast, has decent priority and damage, and can trip you if you're grounded. A ROB will also use it to WoP you into thhe blastlines. And Bair is just silly for the mere fact that its hitbox covers pretty much all of ROB's hurtbox and can slightly help his recovery.
Roflcopter is lol. This is why you can use your BAS as he uses his Gyro. He can't reflect it reliably and it has a good chance of beating out his Fair and Gyro.
FTilt is not your friend. ROB will use it to **** with your approaches, poke you, outprioritize you, poke you, and hit you out of your SH aerials. And poke you. Just PS or something, there's really not much you can do about this imo.
DTilt is weird. If a ROB crouches all the way to DTilt, it takes the same amount of frames as does a DSmash. It takes one frame to crouch, and DTilt hitbox comes out on the third frame, whereas DSmash's hitbox come out on the fourth frame. You might not see this too much except for some shield poking.
When dealing with SDDSmash, don't be dumb and try to buffer a shield/grab/whatever. It comes out too quick. Invincibility from SD starts on frame 2, and the move can be IASAd on frame 26, a full 10 frames before the animation ends. And since DSmash's hitbox come out on frame 3, if the ROB is frame perfect, you've only got nine frames to hit ROB, as Kita said. If you've got his Gyro, DI out of it or wait until the moce ends to hit him in his endlag.
--
I'll post some moar later.
iDeo
Smash Journeyman
Lucario doesn't have enough to out camp Rob. All Luc. has is AS while Rob has a beyblade and a laser.
The only way to even that out is by holding the beyblade, but even then the laser is enough to keep Robs going. This, imo, only forces Robs to mix-up for a while until they can get the gyro back and make further mix-ups.
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It's called a Gyro...
iDeo
Smash Journeyman
i call it a beybalde, XD
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Or maybe it's the "smoothie groovy spin n' shooty".
But you can powershield rob laser pretty easily if there's no gyro to mix things up, which lets you charge your AS much more easily and get some new options.
ftilt is annoying, fair is annoying, getting gimped is annoying.
I always end up thinking my fair > ROB's and I always trade which isn't a great habit frankly. A better idea is to just get more vertically oriented or try to punish (which I have a couple of ideas I want to try soon). Jab is also a pretty good underused gtfo move, even though ROBs seem more prone to dsmash, jab is also nice since it's faster and sends you more horizontal which opens up other opportunities for stuff.
Also, I learned how **** it is to have transcendent hitboxes against attacking hurtboxes
But you can powershield rob laser pretty easily if there's no gyro to mix things up, which lets you charge your AS much more easily and get some new options.
ftilt is annoying, fair is annoying, getting gimped is annoying.
I always end up thinking my fair > ROB's and I always trade which isn't a great habit frankly. A better idea is to just get more vertically oriented or try to punish (which I have a couple of ideas I want to try soon). Jab is also a pretty good underused gtfo move, even though ROBs seem more prone to dsmash, jab is also nice since it's faster and sends you more horizontal which opens up other opportunities for stuff.
Also, I learned how **** it is to have transcendent hitboxes against attacking hurtboxes
THAT DOES NOT WORK.
You do realize that that means that we have to roll on the EXACT SAME FRAME that he does utilt?
Do you know how ridiculously impractical that is?
Have you ever been utilted by a snake who waited for your roll and then turned around and utilted you?
edit: Our roll is 28 frames. Where the hell are you getting your numbers?