SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[RT]

FD, Pictochat, and Japes are all okay stages for CP, but some places don't have the latter two legal. If you don't win the first match, you'll struggle to win the set.

 

[culexus・wau]

YI is sorta nice.

Honestly you shouldn't be going to crazy stages at all for this MU, stick with the neutralish areas.


winning the 1st match is essentiaaaaal

 

[RT]

Oh yeah, Yoshi's Island is okay, but most MKs will strike it for starter anyways. <_<

 

[culexus・wau]

YI isn't a neutral in my area ;_;

you lucky *******s

oh yeah and the difficulty of winning rises if its a 3/5 set.

 

[RT]

It's okay, most people strike it first against me anyways, LOL. And Trebla actually hates it...what a weirdo, lol.

 

[Rayku]

Yea, but As other smashers I don't call them by their tag if I personally know them. That goes for anyone xD

Aight cool dawg. You can call me JW and we can refer to M2K as JZ from now on.

 

[iRJi]

Ban Rainbow, Frigate, or battle field depending on the situation. Try to get MK on FD by all means. If you can't get him there, try to lean to the neutrals since it's more of a chance you can fight him on. CPing MK anywhere other then a neutral most of the time is not a good idea lol.

 

[Aurasmash14]

MK isnt exactly bothered by any stage CP-ing against him lol.

it just comes to bringing him where he rocks the least

 

[hichez50]

Well I think you should focus on where lucario rocks the most. It obviously doesn't matter for Mk but any advantage that benfit you and MK is a lot better than a advantage that only hinders MK and doesn't nothing for you.

 

[culexus・wau]

I forget.


how to punish/not get ***** by glide attack.

 

[iRJi]

I forget.


how to punish/not get ***** by glide attack.

1) When MK sweeps in with the glide attack, jump and fair first to clash out his glide, then use Dair to hit him.

2) Jump and Dair. The first hit of dair will clash out the swing of his glide and the 2nd attack of Dair will hit Metaknight.

Use those tatics to knock out his glide attacks normally and out of shuttle loop.

 

[Kitamerby]

I forget.


how to punish/not get ***** by glide attack.

I shieldgrab if they're dumb and attack my shield, usmash if they're dumb and try to attack me, or uair if they're dumb and try to attack me and they're too high for usmash.


If they're smart, dunno. I'd probably shield it and roll away if they spaced it.

 

[culexus・wau]

Is there any real surefire way for punishing gliding in general besides AS? [not the attack]

I know its a real safe recovery but I wanna know if theres anyway we can make it a hassle for Meta to glide and opt to sideb to the edge instead :<

I had a lot of trouble today VS a metaknight because I forgot how to deal with metaknights glide...
[The one I play agaisnt stays grounded most of the time and sideBs to recover mostly + its online.. :\]

 

[phi1ny3]

All I know is that when spacing against it you want to space it like you're anticipating it. You'll see in Ksizzle's videos vs. M2K that he threw AS too late and the thing would snatch him D:
So leave like an MK fair's worth of space between you and the glider.
Dair rox against shuttle loop, but it's kinda hard to space so you hit him when he loops, but once you get the zone, it's pretty distinct and you can do it pretty consistently. Uair imo is the best way to tackle the glide attack itself, usmash if you feel like you can get that groovy first hitbox, but I don't like Lucario usmash in general lol ;_;

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

First off I wanna begin by saying...

10% AURA SPHERES BEAT NADO, 10% AURA SPHERES BEAT NADO, 10% AURA SPHERES BEAT NADO!

21% Aura Spheres (104%, full charge, fresh) will beat MK's glide attack.

Seriously, Aura Sphere is <3 in this match-up. Keep it reasonably fresh if you can. Also, get good at B-Reversals, you'll need it.

Challenging a grounded MK with DAir is really risky:

• OoS Shuttle Loop
• Utilt beats Lucario's DAir

Pressure his shield with AS and he'll either be forced to Nado (which at higher %s you'll have enough time to charge up a 10% Sphere and knock him out of it) or take it to the air. If he Dair air camps try to keep your distance until you know you can hit him. If you're too aggressive he'll secure a better position on the stage and give you a harder time. DAir hits you at a weird horizontal angle too, so try to not get hit by it too much.

Edit: Oh and don't forget to DI/SDI his multi-hit Fair and Bair, you should be able to hit him if he whiffs the third hit.

Obviously you'll be able to hit him more if his shield is worn down. Limit his options and you'll be able to hit him more, yay!

Stages:
Final Destination and Smashville are my favorite neutrals for taking on MK. The more platforms there are/bigger it is the more that MK can harass you with Uair, Shuttle Loop, Nado, etc.
Uhhh pretty much everything else I've wanted to say has been said already.

55:45 MK.

Spoiler

(Also, if we all agree that its 55:45 MK there will most likely be an influx of players wanting to learn Lucario/help develop his metagame. Hint, hint.)

 

[F1ZZ]

^ I disagree with Smashville being a good choice with MK. The stage is too small and if the MK is aggresive you have no chance to charge your AS which is a very valuable move in the MU.

An example of what I mean is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufL_Yvl3ZmM (I know this isn't Lucario but you will get the idea)

 

[phi1ny3]

Unfortunately, if you play with a conservative stage selection, you may have to get comfortable with Smashville, which all in all isn't too bad. Definitely not FD, but any MK with half a brain will strike/ban this stage, and you definitely don't want to take him to BF.
But yeah F1ZZ is right that you want a bigger stage so that you don't get sent as far, helps your AS/maneuverability, and livability vs. MK.

 

[RT]

Smashville, FD, and BF were the only starters at a recent local tourney I went attended. I struck BF, and the MK struck FD, so we went to Smashville. 95% of the time you'll probably end up on Smashville, unless you WANT to play on BF...which is a bad idea for the most part...

 

[iRJi]

You need to get rid of Smashville LOL. That's one of the worse possible stages to bring MK to xD

 

[RT]

Well, it's MK. Regardless what happens, you almost certainly won't end up on Yoshi's or FD. You just have to choose the lesser of two evils based on your own preference and win the first match. Or consider PS1 if your region has it as starter.

 

[Aurasmash14]

Smashville, FD, and BF were the only starters at a recent local tourney I went attended. I struck BF, and the MK struck FD, so we went to Smashville. 95% of the time you'll probably end up on Smashville, unless you WANT to play on BF...which is a bad idea for the most part...

you sure? Smashville is a horrible place to fight MK.

 

[iRJi]

Hmm. Discussion died down. Went over stages, so lets decide MU numbers, and post any extra information that people have not posted about yet. We still can cover alot more ground with MK though.

 

[Aurasmash14]

60:40 MK.

should be obvious >_>

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'll leave a bigger write-up when I'm not studying for a second midterm.

MK does have bad stages whether people want to admit it or not.

FD is a bad MK stage, most of the cast can do so much more on this stage compared to others. In Lucario's case it lets him get open space and live longer vertically. Yoshi's Island is good, gimping is less likely due to wall cling, make sure you don't get footstooled.

Green Greens and Corneria if legal are good CP stages, but again if legal.

Rainbow Cruise is the main stage that give me issues, I usually ban that stage from CP.

As for the whole starter stage deliema here is what my starter selection is,

Final Destination
Lylat cruiser
Smashville
Battlefield
Yoshi's Island

I strike BF and Smashville every time, usually they strike FD and Yoshi's. I can live with Lylat, although I sometimes face some oddball MK's that strike it and we go to Yoshi's.

 

[phi1ny3]

If you do happen to have Green Greens and Corneria, be sure to learn how to get out of "the M2K combo" before he tornados you off the ceiling, otherwise it'll be easy pickings for him.

 

[iRJi]

Need more Mu numbers mangs.

 

[RT]

40:60. 45:55 would be pushing it.

 

[culexus・wau]

40-60 def.

 

[D. Disciple]

55-45 .

 

[Inspire]

*sigh*

40-60 MK is scary

 

[iRJi]

Since I got everyone to post, The complete dominate number is 60:40 MK.

Our next MU is Wario.

If you want to post last minute information about MK, I will allow you too, but Wario starts.... Now.

 

[Popertop]

fart *****
watch out for half waft, it's really ****ing fast, not sure what beats it

Dair beats full waft if you are above him
utilt beats Dair whe timed correctly
run away and space Fsmash, its effective
watch out for Uair and Fsmash, you will die to these earlier than you think
Edgeguard him when at all possible, make him dodge an aura sphere and footstool him
throw aura spheres in the way of him biking back

 

[culexus・wau]

Don't lose the lead.

Wall with fair and tilts.

WATCH OUT FOR FART, KEEP THAT EYE ON THE TIMER.

more later.


I like to bring the game to his face because I don't want him to charge that fart.

its ok to retreat sometimes though

 

[RT]

Watch out for farts, obviously. Once it starts reaching the half charge, stay towards the middle to increase your chances of surviving the hit.

Uair and Fsmash are his other good kill moves. Ftilt is also can be nasty due to its range.

Dair is a very versatile move, so expect it to be used. Nair is also good. His aerial mobility really helps him avoid attacks.

Chomp has a deceptive amount of range and is essentially free damage if it lands, but if Wario misses, punish with AS or some other move with range.

This is one of those matches where getting the first kill really helps, but it isn't essential in order to win.

 

[F1ZZ]

^^
I would rather not be in his face when his fart is strong and powerful, instead I would back off and play more defensive (AS). Remember it would only takes one missed Fsmash or an other move with a long start up time and you would probably be sent flying.

Do you guys agree?

 

[Popertop]

his fart also beats out a lot of stuff

 

[culexus・wau]

Pretty much

Not killing Waft -> Take the fight to wario/bait him out if he's an aggressive type

DANGER WAFT -> You have like 30 seconds to bait it out or it let it disappear, play patient.


You shouldn't let Wario have the lead EVER if possible

Good god what horrible things could happen.

Texas knoz :x

 

[RT]

Pretty much

Not killing Waft -> Take the fight to wario/bait him out if he's an aggressive type

DANGER WAFT -> You have like 30 seconds to bait it out or it let it disappear, play patient.


You shouldn't let Wario have the lead EVER if possible

Good god what horrible things could happen.

RT knoz :x

Fixed for accuracy. It changes you forever.

 

[Popertop]

Volcano nachos changes a man

 

[iRJi]

Lately, we have been just talking about general information about the characters. I would like to have information on how to go about the matchups, and what works and doesn't work against him if possible.