Lukingordex
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What exactly are your guys talking about? video please
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Silver Tongue: Move Analysis Changes and Tips
- Thread starter Sinister Slush
- Start date
Nordal
Smash Lord
Either way, most people's reactions are going to be to shield it if it doesn't fully connect, and we both know how that goes.
Also hi people! I'm back for good (whether you like it or not).
Does yoshi's down B break shields now? Not sure if wario just shielded in such a way that he didn't get shield poked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO6...sg5-NxWZw76QA&feature=player_detailpage#t=472
Edit: I think the rage effect might have something to do with it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO6...sg5-NxWZw76QA&feature=player_detailpage#t=472
Edit: I think the rage effect might have something to do with it
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Nordal
Smash Lord
It's always done some pretty heavy damage to shields, apparently just moreso now.
Yoshi bomb (among almost everything else he has) got a pretty huge buff.
Yoshi bomb (among almost everything else he has) got a pretty huge buff.
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Nikes
Smash Lord
Just canceled out a fully charged Samus charge shot with dash attack. This move is amazing.
Boshi PV
Just another Wolf
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I find myself playing Yoshi, like I play melee Fox. Run up Usmash, up throw up airs, 1 jab up tilt usmash, he feels like melee Fox to me at least. And that amazing dash attack though, it's so good.
JakubDi
Smash Rookie
I cannot record videos directly from 3DS so I have made two screenshots:
Keep in mind that in the second case Yoshi has already moved to the right a little bit. He was over the left side of the tree during the startup.
I find doing this consistently really hard on Circle Pad; egg roll often comes out instead of the throw.
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I don't believe dthrow / uthrow -> anything is guaranteed at any percent, at least not against anyone other than fast fallers. Pretty much everyone can just hold up and mash jump to escape any possible follow-up, and being above Yoshi really isn't very threatening because Uair's hitbox seems deceptively bad.
I agree that Yoshi actually hasn't changed as much as it might appear at first glance. While USmash and Dash attack seem way different, their usage is actually pretty similar to his old ones. Dash attack to jab jab is back to being super solid again, like it was in 64, so that's something.
I agree that Yoshi actually hasn't changed as much as it might appear at first glance. While USmash and Dash attack seem way different, their usage is actually pretty similar to his old ones. Dash attack to jab jab is back to being super solid again, like it was in 64, so that's something.
Dash attack is not the same as Brawl's. Neither is Up smash, and because of the limitations of the 3DS we have no idea if we have a fairly good DACUS like Falco Sheik etc. in Brawl.
Anyways even tho it prolly doesn't matter much, I did read all of ur stuph Celes, but didn't think there was much to post about but since I making a post now to respond to dis gai above me (bumping the thread kinda in this way) I mite as well read again and comment on a thing or two.
F-Tilt: We never killed with f-tilt anyways tho, so not sure why you brought that up.
U-tilt: I find myself using Utilt in most situations anyways compared to Dtilt or Ftilt, so gud fer me. Not sure on other yoshi mains, cause honestly there were times I completely forgot Dtilt was a thing until I just randomly used it.
U-Smash: From what I heard from people in SA, they've gotten kills with the back of Usmash at kinda sorta low % on light characters (of course). So I think it covers some ground behind us still.
As I said earlier, becuz of 3DS controls (unless somebody else does what gimr did and modifies their 3ds) no idea if we have a beastly DACUS since our Dash attack shoots us across at least half of FD.
F-Smash: During I think one or two videos that Smiley posted from that AZ tournament, I saw like 3 or 4 instances where Fsmash missed completely. I was kinda sad.
D-Smash: Because of it having more range and the new ledge mechanic with not automatically snapping to it cause the hitbox for it was bigger in brawl than Smash4, we can possibly use it to gimp some characters. That and of course only invincibility for first ledge grab and all.
Dash Attack: In some matches I've seen this move clank with some nasty **** along with still hitting the opponent, winning the trade. For example, I believe I brought this up in the skype group, but the Yoshi Dash attacked towards a Rosalina Charging Fsmash with Luma as well but it clanked and also hit the luma. Cause of Jab DA prolly being a thing and the fact DA comes out so quickly I can see us spamming this a bit from the quickness and the distance it'll give us from the enemy even if they shield/spotdodge it.
Bair: One of the moves I loved spamming nerfed in a sense we can use it for combos anymore like we used too, but I'll take the spike/KO buffs over combo potential I guezz.
Eggroll: Nobody but you (and maybe raptor as a joke) used eggroll to kill lol. Eggshot seems interesting to use, and I guess the huge hop we get for some reason can be used to catch opponents off guard if we accidentally use it a few feet from the stage and just end up hopping higher and able to get away safely by UpB'ing away from them once we get out of it. Only use I can think of for the Super Jump.
Egglay: Heavies/Spacies. All that needs to be mentioned.
Yoshi bomb: Kill potential in the air being strong like melee? nobody has said anything bout that yet, but I've seen multiple shield breaks tho. It's fantastic to know if people are ballsy enough to shield the move they'll have their shield broken most likely, especially if they used it a second ago for even half a second.
Eggtoss: after watching all these matches, I honestly think it'd be better if we did a short hop and then throw an egg just to have a better angle to try and hit our opponent and even if they run to us we now have the momentum to just float away from them. Like, everytime I've seen a Yoshi just do a regular eggthrow while on the ground it's too low to go anywhere due to the new arcs Sakurai gave em, so yah. When not holding down the inputs for egg toss they don't go as far as a no input egg toss would've gone in brawl.
Standing Grab: didn't notice any changes, tho nice if others have. It needed a buff.
Dash grab: I've seen it grab people when it shouldn't have. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHv3eUXV-x0#t=28s
Agaian tho, good on that annoying thing of our tongue going through people and not grabbing them. For all I know, that video example could be a moment when it would've missed in brawl.
Gameplay: cause of the change to airdodging to the ground and our new fast/large DA, we can prolly punish landings a lot better ala Snake with his DA.
Just need to be aggressive this time around and I still believe if we still wanna try the campy style Yoshi, just don't bother with grounded egg throws anymore, do even a short hop to have better angles to hit your enemy and cause of the huge hop the first egg gives us we can maneuver around the air to either toss more or even get to the ledge.
No more momentum cancel? Has anyone tried eggroll to do it yet or wut.
tl;dr: Should've added OoS to remind people we can do stuph now. Yoshi's still have recurring nightmares it seems of no options in shield and I honestly have not seen any Yoshi's jump UpB or Usmash out of shield yet amazingly enough. Not sure why.
Anyways even tho it prolly doesn't matter much, I did read all of ur stuph Celes, but didn't think there was much to post about but since I making a post now to respond to dis gai above me (bumping the thread kinda in this way) I mite as well read again and comment on a thing or two.
F-Tilt: We never killed with f-tilt anyways tho, so not sure why you brought that up.
U-tilt: I find myself using Utilt in most situations anyways compared to Dtilt or Ftilt, so gud fer me. Not sure on other yoshi mains, cause honestly there were times I completely forgot Dtilt was a thing until I just randomly used it.
U-Smash: From what I heard from people in SA, they've gotten kills with the back of Usmash at kinda sorta low % on light characters (of course). So I think it covers some ground behind us still.
As I said earlier, becuz of 3DS controls (unless somebody else does what gimr did and modifies their 3ds) no idea if we have a beastly DACUS since our Dash attack shoots us across at least half of FD.
F-Smash: During I think one or two videos that Smiley posted from that AZ tournament, I saw like 3 or 4 instances where Fsmash missed completely. I was kinda sad.
D-Smash: Because of it having more range and the new ledge mechanic with not automatically snapping to it cause the hitbox for it was bigger in brawl than Smash4, we can possibly use it to gimp some characters. That and of course only invincibility for first ledge grab and all.
Dash Attack: In some matches I've seen this move clank with some nasty **** along with still hitting the opponent, winning the trade. For example, I believe I brought this up in the skype group, but the Yoshi Dash attacked towards a Rosalina Charging Fsmash with Luma as well but it clanked and also hit the luma. Cause of Jab DA prolly being a thing and the fact DA comes out so quickly I can see us spamming this a bit from the quickness and the distance it'll give us from the enemy even if they shield/spotdodge it.
Bair: One of the moves I loved spamming nerfed in a sense we can use it for combos anymore like we used too, but I'll take the spike/KO buffs over combo potential I guezz.
Eggroll: Nobody but you (and maybe raptor as a joke) used eggroll to kill lol. Eggshot seems interesting to use, and I guess the huge hop we get for some reason can be used to catch opponents off guard if we accidentally use it a few feet from the stage and just end up hopping higher and able to get away safely by UpB'ing away from them once we get out of it. Only use I can think of for the Super Jump.
Egglay: Heavies/Spacies. All that needs to be mentioned.
Yoshi bomb: Kill potential in the air being strong like melee? nobody has said anything bout that yet, but I've seen multiple shield breaks tho. It's fantastic to know if people are ballsy enough to shield the move they'll have their shield broken most likely, especially if they used it a second ago for even half a second.
Eggtoss: after watching all these matches, I honestly think it'd be better if we did a short hop and then throw an egg just to have a better angle to try and hit our opponent and even if they run to us we now have the momentum to just float away from them. Like, everytime I've seen a Yoshi just do a regular eggthrow while on the ground it's too low to go anywhere due to the new arcs Sakurai gave em, so yah. When not holding down the inputs for egg toss they don't go as far as a no input egg toss would've gone in brawl.
Standing Grab: didn't notice any changes, tho nice if others have. It needed a buff.
Dash grab: I've seen it grab people when it shouldn't have. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHv3eUXV-x0#t=28s
Agaian tho, good on that annoying thing of our tongue going through people and not grabbing them. For all I know, that video example could be a moment when it would've missed in brawl.
Gameplay: cause of the change to airdodging to the ground and our new fast/large DA, we can prolly punish landings a lot better ala Snake with his DA.
Just need to be aggressive this time around and I still believe if we still wanna try the campy style Yoshi, just don't bother with grounded egg throws anymore, do even a short hop to have better angles to hit your enemy and cause of the huge hop the first egg gives us we can maneuver around the air to either toss more or even get to the ledge.
No more momentum cancel? Has anyone tried eggroll to do it yet or wut.
tl;dr: Should've added OoS to remind people we can do stuph now. Yoshi's still have recurring nightmares it seems of no options in shield and I honestly have not seen any Yoshi's jump UpB or Usmash out of shield yet amazingly enough. Not sure why.
Une
Smash Apprentice
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This character is such a piece of **** jesus christ online Yoshis are the absolute worst. And I thought random Falcons (Side B and Down B kill now! Were they TRYING to make Falcon an online warrior character?) and Chariards mashing flare blitz were annoying. THIS goddamn character, wow. Running all over the place at the speed of sound with all these goddamn fast attacks with goddamn range and goddamn power. Dash attack goes like goddamn halfway across the entire stage. And that's actually not that much of an exaggeration. It goes absurdly far.
I should have recorded those matches with that Yoshi player and uploaded them to youtube. It would be a pretty memorable sight, tell you that much. Just look at little ole' me trying to carefully space and y'know, try to play decently . And meanwhile this GODDAMN YOSHI is running here, running there, throwing eggs, dashattack,dashattack,dashattack, forward smash mash, jab mash (of course) Get him in the air? Naw, he ain't scurred. Durr fly around the ****ing air because apparently Yoshi has invisible wings and falls down with his ridiculous hitboxes (plus that goddamn annoying boost he gets from tossing eggs) or just RANDOMLY DOWN B OUT OF NOWHERE not to mention I'm always shaking in my goddamned boots because if he hits me with a down air I eat like 1000000 damage and lose my ****ing lead. Oh and shield? LOL. Shield yoshi's down B? That **** does like 80% shield damage. Dair? LOL. It's like an aerial Melee Peach Dsmash! Why? I don't know, why does Bowser Jr's jab combo do TWENTY DAMAGE? Try to space with jab/tilt/whatever? HE ****ing DOWN Bs ME. Try to poke him with a jab or something? Guess what? DOWN B. Yes, when on the ground in front of him, he hits me with down B when I'm trying to poke him or something. APPARENTLY the move has some range in front of him and he **** uses it as a counterpoke or some garbage like that. Or he's just mashing. Wry play Bowser instead of Yoshi? Yoshi's like a slightly weaker Bowser but with like 3x the speed and a much better projectile!
Goddamn again. And I thought some of those online Persona matches were embarrassing. Forget that Liz player that hit me with all these random DPs and lazer beams because of lag, this was MUCH, MUCH, worse. Thing is, he wasn't even a complete scrub or anything. He had spacing and stuff. But sorry. Can't respect a player that attacks so often and mashes so much and wins just because everyone (including me) is just so awful.
Well at least I've learned one thing that isn't incredibly terrible and depressing. That is - online, we all mash. It doesn't matter what game it is. Street Fighter, BlazBlue, Persona, THIS GAME, mashmashmash. Hell, I just played some Persona online. I hit someone with 5B, 5C, Lightning Car knockdown, dash up jump JB and most of the time it simply hits. Do these guys know about blocking? Naw. They probably play Smash 4.
Honestly I don't think I even know what I'm saying at this point but in terms of a garbage level of play tier list
S - Yoshi, Charizard, Bowser, Little Mac, Ganon, Falcon
A -
B -
C -
D -
E - MegaMan
Those are the guys so far. Charizard, Bowser, Little Mac, and Ganon have powerful moves that you can mash people with. Yoshi is just incredibly overwhelming. Just, goddamn. Fast, projectile, strong, heavy, armor, annoying BS. MegaMan I would have to assume is garbage at a scrub level because he doesn't have anything super easy he can mash out.
tldr - I hate Yoshi after a traumatic experience I had online. Seriously I've lost to people before, and some of them were actually decent! But there was nothing. NOTHING that gave me the sense of confusion and anger that this Yoshi player gave me. At LEAST those other guys didn't run around attacking constantly with me not knowing what to do at all. It's like going from Street Fighter to Marvel
I should have recorded those matches with that Yoshi player and uploaded them to youtube. It would be a pretty memorable sight, tell you that much. Just look at little ole' me trying to carefully space and y'know, try to play decently . And meanwhile this GODDAMN YOSHI is running here, running there, throwing eggs, dashattack,dashattack,dashattack, forward smash mash, jab mash (of course) Get him in the air? Naw, he ain't scurred. Durr fly around the ****ing air because apparently Yoshi has invisible wings and falls down with his ridiculous hitboxes (plus that goddamn annoying boost he gets from tossing eggs) or just RANDOMLY DOWN B OUT OF NOWHERE not to mention I'm always shaking in my goddamned boots because if he hits me with a down air I eat like 1000000 damage and lose my ****ing lead. Oh and shield? LOL. Shield yoshi's down B? That **** does like 80% shield damage. Dair? LOL. It's like an aerial Melee Peach Dsmash! Why? I don't know, why does Bowser Jr's jab combo do TWENTY DAMAGE? Try to space with jab/tilt/whatever? HE ****ing DOWN Bs ME. Try to poke him with a jab or something? Guess what? DOWN B. Yes, when on the ground in front of him, he hits me with down B when I'm trying to poke him or something. APPARENTLY the move has some range in front of him and he **** uses it as a counterpoke or some garbage like that. Or he's just mashing. Wry play Bowser instead of Yoshi? Yoshi's like a slightly weaker Bowser but with like 3x the speed and a much better projectile!
Goddamn again. And I thought some of those online Persona matches were embarrassing. Forget that Liz player that hit me with all these random DPs and lazer beams because of lag, this was MUCH, MUCH, worse. Thing is, he wasn't even a complete scrub or anything. He had spacing and stuff. But sorry. Can't respect a player that attacks so often and mashes so much and wins just because everyone (including me) is just so awful.
Well at least I've learned one thing that isn't incredibly terrible and depressing. That is - online, we all mash. It doesn't matter what game it is. Street Fighter, BlazBlue, Persona, THIS GAME, mashmashmash. Hell, I just played some Persona online. I hit someone with 5B, 5C, Lightning Car knockdown, dash up jump JB and most of the time it simply hits. Do these guys know about blocking? Naw. They probably play Smash 4.
Honestly I don't think I even know what I'm saying at this point but in terms of a garbage level of play tier list
S - Yoshi, Charizard, Bowser, Little Mac, Ganon, Falcon
A -
B -
C -
D -
E - MegaMan
Those are the guys so far. Charizard, Bowser, Little Mac, and Ganon have powerful moves that you can mash people with. Yoshi is just incredibly overwhelming. Just, goddamn. Fast, projectile, strong, heavy, armor, annoying BS. MegaMan I would have to assume is garbage at a scrub level because he doesn't have anything super easy he can mash out.
tldr - I hate Yoshi after a traumatic experience I had online. Seriously I've lost to people before, and some of them were actually decent! But there was nothing. NOTHING that gave me the sense of confusion and anger that this Yoshi player gave me. At LEAST those other guys didn't run around attacking constantly with me not knowing what to do at all. It's like going from Street Fighter to Marvel
Yoshi's aerial down B is very unsafe, and you can shield it and still punish, it does a fair bit of shield damage but won't break in one hit.
Anyway, there's two main things you need to know about the Yoshi matchup:
- if he hits you with anything other than USmash or Uair at kill percent, vector up and mash jump
- never airdodge except against eggs. Challenge with normals instead
This makes him far more manageable. His hitboxes are actually quite bad and if you challenge with aerials you'll usually trade or beat him cleanly. You can also escape all of his combos by just going up, which weakens his damage output a lot.
Incidentally, IMO Yoshi has the worst throws in the entire game. Down throw and UThrow lead to nothing as long as you hold up and mash jump, and his forward and back throws have no knockback, so even if he's at the edge you can't throw people off stage. This makes his matchup vs Little Mac extremely bad, probably 7-3 or 8-2.
Anyway, there's two main things you need to know about the Yoshi matchup:
- if he hits you with anything other than USmash or Uair at kill percent, vector up and mash jump
- never airdodge except against eggs. Challenge with normals instead
This makes him far more manageable. His hitboxes are actually quite bad and if you challenge with aerials you'll usually trade or beat him cleanly. You can also escape all of his combos by just going up, which weakens his damage output a lot.
Incidentally, IMO Yoshi has the worst throws in the entire game. Down throw and UThrow lead to nothing as long as you hold up and mash jump, and his forward and back throws have no knockback, so even if he's at the edge you can't throw people off stage. This makes his matchup vs Little Mac extremely bad, probably 7-3 or 8-2.
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CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
Gonna defend my boy Yoshi a lil bit.
Upairs range isn't so much the scary part of it, its how quickly I go from no where close to you, to right under you with a really quick kill move that has super armor on startup because of the jump. Idk man I feel like if there was ever a time to be afraid to be under yoshi in the air this is it.
If you held up and mashed jump to try to get away from an uptilt, you'll be hit by a lot worse on your way down. You're right though dthrow to uptilt is probably not anything for yoshi, but I felt like at least once I got it out in a way that felt pretty legit.
Also bruh Upsmash is WAY different. Again I used that move for everything in brawl. It was a way better all around move than it is now. Dash attack I'm still on the fence for though.
Ftilt: Never said we used to kill with it, just saying even though its our strongest tilt, it can't kill and it doesn't combo into anything so theres not that much use for it aside from pivot tilts.
Upsmash:THe behind range is actually identical to uptilt from what I tested. Like imagine jab 1, it has like half that range.
Fsmash: Christ like I only started noticing that recently but it lacks a hitbox really close to yoshi. So if you try to point blank an Fsmash you'll probably miss. Might be better if you angle it or something idk, but if they're getting that close to you, upsmash would more than likely be the better option.
Eggroll: Lmao im just mad because in Brawl I had this "I must eggroll kill every yoshi in the ditto" mentality. It was my favorite joke kill and now its gone
(i mean i got it on someone today but it was painful to let him live that long without accidentally killing him)Down b: Its kill potential in the air is almost identical to on the ground. If you hit someone at 120-140 range with it while in the air they're probably dead.
Eggtoss: Its what I do, and literally every egg that connects can be followed up on if you're even kinda close. Even if they shield it, you can probably get an egglay in (eggtoss validates egglay so much this time around).
Dash Grab: Holy ****. Yeah there is no way that would have worked in brawl. The Miss hitbox that was on this got moved to Fsmash or something.
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I gotta say so far, that Yoshi is REALLY looking good this time around. I'm slowly adapting into his playing style comparing to the last three games where I had a hard time playing him
Savez
Smash Cadet
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I haven't had the chance to read all the thread but I have to ask some advice to play vs. Yoshi instead of with him.
Why is a Dair that does 34% (yes it's 34 I've just checked the replay) a thing and how should I counter it? I mean, even the falcon punch doesn't do that much.
It has almost no landing lag since if I shield it I can't even roll away that he hits me with tilts not counting that I have to time the roll PERFECTLY otherwise he'll hitstun me since that move lasts forever. And shielding isn't even that appealing since it does a bazillion hits and it almost destroys it. What should I do other than try to predict it and roll away which can work but miss it one and you're 34% closer to death?
I play Samus mostly and I've had problems vs him (not as much as vs LM tho) so I'd love to know how to fight him other than throw him offstage and gimp him cause that's the only thing that's worked so far.
Why is a Dair that does 34% (yes it's 34 I've just checked the replay) a thing and how should I counter it? I mean, even the falcon punch doesn't do that much.
It has almost no landing lag since if I shield it I can't even roll away that he hits me with tilts not counting that I have to time the roll PERFECTLY otherwise he'll hitstun me since that move lasts forever. And shielding isn't even that appealing since it does a bazillion hits and it almost destroys it. What should I do other than try to predict it and roll away which can work but miss it one and you're 34% closer to death?
I play Samus mostly and I've had problems vs him (not as much as vs LM tho) so I'd love to know how to fight him other than throw him offstage and gimp him cause that's the only thing that's worked so far.
Also f**k this D: As if Samus needed to be hit harder D:
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34% weird, people are saying 33% and I think even I tested it and got 33%.
Anyways, until someone else who has the game and comes up to help you.
In brawl Yoshi vs Samus was basically Samus playing the keep away game and spamming projectiles and Zair until you're at a kill % or offstage for a spike/bair gimp.
Dunno bout Smash 4 outside of the fact Samus can't double missile from short hop anymore so that's already a nerf in that MU while Yoshi only got buff, so Zair maybe best thing still?
Also gonna update this thread this weekend with more stuph we been finding over the weeks since the release of the game.
Anyways, until someone else who has the game and comes up to help you.
In brawl Yoshi vs Samus was basically Samus playing the keep away game and spamming projectiles and Zair until you're at a kill % or offstage for a spike/bair gimp.
Dunno bout Smash 4 outside of the fact Samus can't double missile from short hop anymore so that's already a nerf in that MU while Yoshi only got buff, so Zair maybe best thing still?
Also gonna update this thread this weekend with more stuph we been finding over the weeks since the release of the game.
I have no real idea how Samus would do this in all honesty.
Nikes
Smash Lord
As Slush said zoning with projectiles and Zair to keep us away should work, we're going to want to shield or airdodge through your projectiles to get to you which you can then punish. I'm sad to hear she can't short hop double missile anymore actually, would've helped you in this matchup with super missile and regular missile mixups a lot.
As for the Dair's, probably best roll toward us if we're approaching with it early, as we can actually double jab pretty fast out of a Dair so yeah you'll want to be behind us. I think Samus having a slow roll can actually work to her advantage here due to going into morph ball and therefore dodging Dair completely, leaving us open to punish. That said, idk how much of an opportunity you'll really have to get in a punish though.
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. If I realize any strong counters she has against us I'll let you know, since both sides knowing the MU advances both characters.
Best of luck.
As for the Dair's, probably best roll toward us if we're approaching with it early, as we can actually double jab pretty fast out of a Dair so yeah you'll want to be behind us. I think Samus having a slow roll can actually work to her advantage here due to going into morph ball and therefore dodging Dair completely, leaving us open to punish. That said, idk how much of an opportunity you'll really have to get in a punish though.
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. If I realize any strong counters she has against us I'll let you know, since both sides knowing the MU advances both characters.
Best of luck.
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Thing is, in brawl the reason the missile pressure helped so much was because we couldn't jump OoS and it was 17 frames of horridness.
We can do that now so as I said before, Yoshi got buffs and buffs and some love taps on the wrist while other characters seem to got more nerfs over buffs.
We can do that now so as I said before, Yoshi got buffs and buffs and some love taps on the wrist while other characters seem to got more nerfs over buffs.
Nikes
Smash Lord
Only just realized this thread's gotten up to 7 pages.
I take it no ones managed to uncover anything on that ledge 'DR' thing yet?
I take it no ones managed to uncover anything on that ledge 'DR' thing yet?
CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
Not that I know of. Only that it seems like a universal tech. Pretty sure I did it with lucina like 5 minutes ago
Ok I recovered from the weekend and alive I think.
Grab release Options so far: DA on Sheik (New)
Usmash on Wario (Old)
Fair Offstage on ROB (New)
Landing Lag: Nair 11 Frames (+2 Nerf from Brawl's 9)
Fair 17 Frames (+1 Nerf from Brawl's 16)
Uair 14 Frames (No Change from Brawl)
Bair 19 Frames (+10 Nerf from Brawl's 9) Holy crap
Dair 24 Frames (No Change from Brawl)
With something found back in the Demo (still in Released game) where airdodging and using an aerial with the least amount of lag, you can shield quicker than the 22 frames from airdodging into the ground. For this our best move to use after airdodge is Nair.
Double Jumps armor was buffed to last even while the ascending from DJ has ended already, nothing on how long it lasts though.
Edit: man the more I add stuff that's found as the weeks go by, the more I wish I had a second post reserved.
Grab release Options so far: DA on Sheik (New)
Usmash on Wario (Old)
Fair Offstage on ROB (New)
Landing Lag: Nair 11 Frames (+2 Nerf from Brawl's 9)
Fair 17 Frames (+1 Nerf from Brawl's 16)
Uair 14 Frames (No Change from Brawl)
Bair 19 Frames (+10 Nerf from Brawl's 9) Holy crap
Dair 24 Frames (No Change from Brawl)
With something found back in the Demo (still in Released game) where airdodging and using an aerial with the least amount of lag, you can shield quicker than the 22 frames from airdodging into the ground. For this our best move to use after airdodge is Nair.
Double Jumps armor was buffed to last even while the ascending from DJ has ended already, nothing on how long it lasts though.
Edit: man the more I add stuff that's found as the weeks go by, the more I wish I had a second post reserved.
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Karaoke Man
Smash Apprentice
Even though Samus lost her missle cancelling, all hope isn't lost just yet; it just means that her game is likely going to center more so around her Zair, Charge Shot pressure, and overall movement. Still looking into Samus, but you can still pressure offstage opponents (Yoshi in this case) with consistent homing missles from the air. You can still use the heavy missles as well, as long as you keep in mind the distance that you'e shooting them from (preferably want to shoot them from long range since it has a lot of lag afterwards.
The best way to avoid Yoshi's Dair is to zone out Yoshi altogether; which is what Samus does best. Granted, you'll have to go about it differently than Brawl did, but the same concept applies more or less. That, and I believe Screw Attack out of shield is still a thing.
Egg.
Smash Journeyman
Confirmed! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9RmAFOZD2U
Nikes
Smash Lord
Well...we definitely know which crowd Nintendos determined to aim the Yoshi series toward...I mean it's always been a younger audience but anybody could still enjoy it. But...the suspended rocket ships are a little bit much
I'm complaining a lot here but the Wildlands music feels out of place too.
I'm complaining a lot here but the Wildlands music feels out of place too.
Just posting to say that forward smash has pretty much cemented itself as Yoshi's worst move by a mile and a half.
No active frames, no real range to speak of (although the screen may be affecting my opinion in this regard), dead zone in the neck/torso area and not very practical considering the buffed state rolls and dodges are in. This might see lots of use as an air dodge landing punish. Maybe.
P.S. - Slush, if you look very carefully at that GIF, you'll see that Yoshi doesn't actually hit the second bumper on the way down. Regarding the first bumper, even though Yoshi might not still physically ascend, he is considered "double jumping" until he begins to look straight down, which may give rise to the suspicion that his double jump lasts longer than it should. In reality, this seems to be working as intended.
No active frames, no real range to speak of (although the screen may be affecting my opinion in this regard), dead zone in the neck/torso area and not very practical considering the buffed state rolls and dodges are in. This might see lots of use as an air dodge landing punish. Maybe.
P.S. - Slush, if you look very carefully at that GIF, you'll see that Yoshi doesn't actually hit the second bumper on the way down. Regarding the first bumper, even though Yoshi might not still physically ascend, he is considered "double jumping" until he begins to look straight down, which may give rise to the suspicion that his double jump lasts longer than it should. In reality, this seems to be working as intended.
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I still think Fsmash is too risky to use even as an anti-air move solely because of how often even the few times I played the 3DS version I missed with it.
Anyways for the 2nd bumper thing, it misses him the first time somehow, but the 2nd time it does indeed hit him. Not too sure why it missed him the first time but didn't the second time when he didn't move at all.
Anyways for the 2nd bumper thing, it misses him the first time somehow, but the 2nd time it does indeed hit him. Not too sure why it missed him the first time but didn't the second time when he didn't move at all.
F-smash isn't an anti-air. He meant to punish a badly timed air dodge, due to the recovery animation. Even then, lack luster at best. There's just too few scenarios where landing f-smash is the best possible route to go for.
Depster
Smash Champion
Idk what you guys are talking about lol, i punish hard as all get out with fsmash after I hit people out diagonally with a bair or something.
I said even as one.
Not specifically used for one.
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But...it isn't one, and shouldn't be used as one either. It's not an anti-air period...
An anti-air isn't just an Usmash y'know.
For example Snake's DA was a good example of being an anti-air to **** us whenever we were in the air about to land, or at least try too cause of the huge distance and hitbox it had.
For a recent (Smash 4) anti-air example I guess, Megaman's Uppercut.
For example Snake's DA was a good example of being an anti-air to **** us whenever we were in the air about to land, or at least try too cause of the huge distance and hitbox it had.
For a recent (Smash 4) anti-air example I guess, Megaman's Uppercut.
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CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
It's a move that can be used to beat out things coming at you from the air. Like its not a good anti air but imo it counts. Though I think landing punish is probably more what slush was going for anyway.
You're gonna need upper body invincibility for a proper anti-air. F-smash has none, so...
I mean, the moves I mentioned don't have invincibility either, so
CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
Lol sorry but a move does not need to have any invincibility to be an antiair. I dont really know what gave you that idea. Literally just needs to be a grounded move that can hit people in the air.
Well, no matter what an anti-air truly is
forward smash is not that (or anything else that matters--terrible move). Great discussion (this move gets worse and worse every game ugh).
You know what, let me dial that back, because I haven't experimented with tilted forward smashes yet (do we even still have this?).
I figured I'd play around with some customs and got around to applying style themes to some of my Yoshi variations. One of them is strictly power; the hardest hitting moves no matter what the sacrifice. While the style obviously lacks finesse, the damage racks up incredibly quickly. Heavy Egg has some very interesting applications and the Timed Egg is just incredible for defense. I still need to play around with Egg Launch because I'm finding people escape almost instantly, which negates the purpose of the move. I would consider using a power-based Yoshi for some harder matchups to make some of his opportunities for those matchups count for more than what they do normally.
forward smash is not that (or anything else that matters--terrible move). Great discussion (this move gets worse and worse every game ugh).
You know what, let me dial that back, because I haven't experimented with tilted forward smashes yet (do we even still have this?).
I figured I'd play around with some customs and got around to applying style themes to some of my Yoshi variations. One of them is strictly power; the hardest hitting moves no matter what the sacrifice. While the style obviously lacks finesse, the damage racks up incredibly quickly. Heavy Egg has some very interesting applications and the Timed Egg is just incredible for defense. I still need to play around with Egg Launch because I'm finding people escape almost instantly, which negates the purpose of the move. I would consider using a power-based Yoshi for some harder matchups to make some of his opportunities for those matchups count for more than what they do normally.
Fsmash is most likely the weakest due to the changes in the engine. With lower pushback and lower shield drop animation, the move is even more risky to use as a bait and punish. It's still good near the ledge for pressure purposes, but things like anti-air are moreso trades because of him losing invincibility.
Usmash is still a good anti-air because of the range along with it being slightly disjointed (weaker than Melee though).
To correct some people, a move to have anti-air abilities is to reliably beat opponents' options when they're airborne. You could call U-tilt an anti-air because of this definition, but it's not going to reliably beat many moves. Most true anti-airs have temporary invincibility to COMPLETELY stuff the opponent's options out. That's why SRKs are anti-airs.
Usmash is still a good anti-air because of the range along with it being slightly disjointed (weaker than Melee though).
To correct some people, a move to have anti-air abilities is to reliably beat opponents' options when they're airborne. You could call U-tilt an anti-air because of this definition, but it's not going to reliably beat many moves. Most true anti-airs have temporary invincibility to COMPLETELY stuff the opponent's options out. That's why SRKs are anti-airs.