Should Metaknight Be Banned? The Poll (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[salaboB]

I beat Shadow's MK with Snake on RAINBOW CRUISE and BRINSTAR in tournament matches. DSF beat dmbrandon on RAINBOW CRUISE. Those stages are hugely in favour of MK.

If they're "hugely in favour" and MK vs. Snake is 60:40 Snake ...

MK should have won. All you're saying is the MKs you were facing sucked against your playstyle.

Also, tournament results disagree that it's 60:40 overall. Snake should be winning more frequently if it were.

 

[Overswarm]

And pardon me for addressing one of my best friends in the community by his first name LOL. I see him a lot and let him stay over and he's in my crew for Christ's sake.

YOU'RE the crew?! I remember hearing someone got him to join their crew by buying him a plane ticket.

 

[Shady Penguin]

Nope. Snake overall has the advantage and if Olimar bans Rainbow Cruise he can't be stage-gayed. Falco and Diddy can do the same thing. Game and Watch doesn't have bad stages, so good luck with that.

I'm not going to get into this, but I did notice something.

You said Snake having the advantage against MK was your opinion before, but now you're applying it to your argument as if it's a fact.

 

[rehab]

Ha, topic name change.

 

[Vulcan55]

I notice "no" has been gradually increasing...

 

[∫unk]

I notice "no" has been gradually increasing...

The no people are adamant and multi-accounts.

 

[CR4SH]

YOU'RE the crew?! I remember hearing someone got him to join their crew by buying him a plane ticket.

Oh come now overswarm, jason. No need for low blows, jason. This isn't a senatorial campaign or anything, jason.

 

[Sliq]

No one cares what place you get if you're MK anymore.

I never cared to begin with. Everyone is just jumping on the Sliq bandwagon, like ALWAYS.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

hey guys please be nice to inui. if you disagree with him then fine. Becasue I do disagree with him too... but charcter insults are just mean.

it makes your argument look better if you don't stoop so low anyway.

 

[Inui]

He doesn't.


Timeline of Inui:

-lots of crap no one cares about from a mediocre player
-people learn to consider Inui an irritating poster due to his posting
-Inui's posting slightly improves; community acceptance begins
-Inui mains Metaknight after losing to a Sonic
-Inui beats several players much better than him
-Inui starts winning tournaments
-Inui suddenly becomes very, very involved in the "don't ban MK" campaign
-Everyone realizes Inui is nothing without MK
-Everyone lawls

Wow, you're such a prick. Not only is that mostly wrong, but you twisted stuff with the sole purpose of trying to make me look terrible.

Why don't you actually debate points instead of trying to slander me?

YOU'RE the crew?! I remember hearing someone got him to join their crew by buying him a plane ticket.

Enemy Controller is the crew I'm in and we never got Jason anything. He just joined because he's good friends with Atomsk and I.

Also, tournament results disagree that it's 60:40 overall. Snake should be winning more frequently if it were.

Snake has numerous bad/even matches, more than MK, so he's not as good at winning tournaments.

Atlantic North prevents MKs from getting 1st the VAST MAJORITY of the time if you don't count Mew2King and teh_spamerer, who are godly players regardless.

 

[salaboB]

Why don't you actually debate points instead of trying to slander me?

I tried that, you ignored them.

 

[LeeHarris]

LeeHarris, how many more people must tell you that you know absolutely nothing about my region?

Did you fail in reading comprehension? I know exactly who is from your region.

Every tournament you do well at does not have your region's good players. It has the mediocre ones and the scrubs. At any tournament with actually good players, you completely ignore the results. Anyone can make themselves look decent by going to scrub tournaments, using MK, and posting only the results where you do well.

Imo:

MK ditto: 50/50
Snake: 60/40 Snake
Olimar: 55/45 Olimar
Falco: 50/50
Diddy: 50/50
Game and Watch: 50/50

So...I think MK is perfectly beatable.

Amazing. Can't people just read this and understand you have no idea what you're talking about? Should I even continue?!

You're acting stupid LMAO. Why do you keep saying such dumb things? I did a lot of things in tournaments WITHOUT Meta Knight for a long time before I started using Meta Knight.

You did things in tournament? WOAH!

I beat Shadow's MK with Snake on RAINBOW CRUISE and BRINSTAR in tournament matches. DSF beat dmbrandon on RAINBOW CRUISE. Those stages are hugely in favour of MK.

Please stop reference how you, the scrub, beat some other scrub. It doesn't matter.

Nope. Snake overall has the advantage and if Olimar bans Rainbow Cruise he can't be stage-gayed. Falco and Diddy can do the same thing. Game and Watch doesn't have bad stages, so good luck with that.

Sweet mother of crap. Olimar can't be stage gayed on anything but Rainbow Cruise? Do you guys use some kind of ******** rule set? I can list a ton of stages where Olimar gets destroyed.

 

[Espy Rose]

Atlantic North prevents MKs from getting 1st the VAST MAJORITY of the time if you don't count Mew2King and teh_spamerer, who are godly players regardless.

Out of curiosity, why would we NOT count M2K and spamerer?

Timeline of Inui:

-lots of crap no one cares about from a mediocre player
-people learn to consider Inui an irritating poster due to his posting
-Inui's posting slightly improves; community acceptance begins
-Inui mains Metaknight after losing to a Sonic
-Inui beats several players much better than him
-Inui starts winning tournaments
-Inui suddenly becomes very, very involved in the "don't ban MK" campaign
-Everyone realizes Inui is nothing without MK
-Everyone lawls

This is too funny; and Lee Harris is still too awesome.

 

[Inui]

Did you fail in reading comprehension? I know exactly who is from your region.

Every tournament you do well at does not have your region's good players. It has the mediocre ones and the scrubs. At any tournament with actually good players, you completely ignore the results. Anyone can make themselves look decent by going to scrub tournaments, using MK, and posting only the results where you do well.

No, you fail, and you're STILL a complete idiot.

Recently I got 2nd place only to teh_spamerer at a 71 person tournament. I defeated Bum, THE BEST DONKEY KONG IN THE NATION, and NinjaLink, THE BEST DIDDY KONG IN THE NATION. 4th place was Atomsk, who I beat, and he's considered a top class Dedede. 5th place was the best ZSS in the nation, Snakeee.

Why do you keep referring to these people as scrubs when they could go to Texas and take 1st at everything?

I posted 100% of the tournaments I attended since Brawl was released in that huge archive earlier, which included ones I did poorly at.

Out of curiosity, why would we NOT count M2K and spamerer?

They'd win regardless of what top tier character they used. They're just on another level than most players, especially M2K.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The no people are adamant and multi-accounts.

That can also be applied to the yes people.

 

[Overswarm]

That can also be applied to the yes people.

The overall ratio has stayed the same since the beginning so I don't think it matters, but there was a brief 4chan effort to vote "no" to show us "tourney***s".

 

[CR4SH]

Why do you keep referring to these people as scrubs when they could go to Texas and take 1st at everything?

Assuming makes an *** out of you. Just so you know.

Spoiler

Im not ripping you because I'm anti-mk, I'm ripping you because you come across as an entire ****ing belt of tools.

 

[ColinJF]

I already showed earlier in this topic that there weren't very many alt votes at all (as in, votes from users who joined after the poll was created). In fact, there were over three times as many of these suspect votes for Yes as for No, but as a ratio of the total, it's very negligible.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5653188&postcount=1102

I could rerun the script on the current results if anybody is interested.

Meta Knight shouldn't be banned by the way.

 

[Inui]

Assuming makes an *** out of you. Just so you know.

Spoiler

Im not ripping you because I'm anti-mk, I'm ripping you because you come across as an entire ****ing belt of tools.

I'm going to assume that the best Diddy and best DK could win in TX when they have the best...nothing. They also get constant practice against top players and legends. Bum was an extremely dominant Melee player, too.

 

[Mew2King]

WOWWWWWW @ OS and Lee criticizing inui when all they do is post super biased things themselves. Like I really don't know what else to say other than that statement. You two guys always post the most biased stuff leaving out the details. A great example of this is keep bringing up how good-Lee w/e he wants to be called, did better vs azens lucario than his MK. What you don't tell everyone, obviously, is that Azen's lucario does better vs me, forte, infernoomni, stiltz, and plank. Things like these, you guys have no room to criticize inui. Both of you guys are extremely biased, and this argument is stupid.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The overall ratio has stayed the same since the beginning so I don't think it matters, but there was a brief 4chan effort to vote "no" to show us "tourney***s".

The ratio 58-42 or somewhere around there has remained constant, both sides have had idiots vote for either side with fake accounts. No side is any less guilty than the other.

 

[CR4SH]

I'm going to assume that the best Diddy and best DK could win in TX when they have the best...nothing. They also get constant practice against top players and legends. Bum was an extremely dominant Melee player, too.

And Jiano was a seriously good melee player, but he doesn't even win my local tourny. Tactial does. Does that mean he's any worse at melee? no. Even though he frequents it.

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm going to assume that the best Diddy and best DK could win in TX when they have the best...nothing. They also get constant practice against top players and legends. Bum was an extremely dominant Melee player, too.

I almost threw up. Saying something like that is just SICK. Re-read this until it gets drilled into your brain:

Assuming makes an *** out of you. Just so you know. I'm not ripping you because I'm anti-mk, I'm ripping you because you come across as an entire ****ing belt of tools.

The ratio 58-42 or somewhere around there has remained constant, both sides have had idiots vote for either side with sake accounts. No side is any less guilty than the other.

This.

Oh, and M2K, just don't.

 

[BentoBox]

I'm going to assume that the best Diddy and best DK could win in TX when they have the best...nothing. They also get constant practice against top players and legends. Bum was an extremely dominant Melee player, too.

Since when do you have to be the best of your character to win against the best of "X" character? I'm sorry but it just doesn't work like that.

For the record M2K, both camps are just as biased.

 

[rehab]

Everybody quit playing up nothing and talk about this stupid game concerning stupid stuff we apparently don't have anything more to say on already.

 

[QUIVO]

OS timeline:

Game comes out and he mains rob
Camps his way to victory for the first few months of the game
People figure out camping and he starts placing under 3rd in singles
Says he eats MKs alive (after "rebuilding" his rob) - this is almost a direct quote...
Loses to Vidjo and Kel (who won a game with peach btw)
Starts his crusade to ban MK
Mains MK to prove a point

You're my friend OS, but this whole thing with MK is ridiculous. I'll respect your opinion, but reading your hate posts makes me kinda disappointed. I NEVER heard you complain once about MK until you lost to kel and vidjo at rofas... I'm pretty sure most people we played with will agree with me. You lost to probably the two best mks in the midwest, and start this crap.

 

[BentoBox]

Peach is so underrated D:

She does very well against Oli/DDD/Rob, fyi.

 

[Deoxys]

Imo:

MK ditto: 50/50
Snake: 60/40 Snake
Olimar: 55/45 Olimar
Falco: 50/50
Diddy: 50/50
Game and Watch: 50/50

So...I think MK is perfectly beatable.

IMO, all the ones you call 50/50 are in MK's favor at least a bit (except for mirror, obv).

Jason M2K, if you're still here, what do you think about his numbers?

 

[Mew2King]

oh believe me, i realized both sides are just as biased

i think the whole argument is stupid and should be dropped immediately

MK ditto: 50/50 equal

Snake: 55/45 Snake favor, Snake's don't grenade camp enough (or PROPERLY), and let themselves be put in bad situations too often. I sincerely believe that while MK may me an overall better character, Snake has the advantage in the matchup if played right.

Olimar: 55/45 MK favor, or even. Olimar is an extremely underrated character and can be extremely deadly if you play him right. MK cannot tornado a good olimar, I know this because I play atomsk, and he is a very good olimar. Every time I tornado Atomsk he just blocks it (and if necessary, angles his shield up) and then dash grabs me when I try to get away. Even if I go on a platform he manages to catch me (with either Fair or up smash I forget which, I think fair). If you Dair camp vs olimar then he can easily just up B you, or randomly up smash or fair. Otherwise, you are never going to hit him with those dairs. MK has no projectile, Olimar can easily wait for MK to come to him (and keep throwing pikmin until he does) and then pivot grab. It's not like you are even forced to do the same type of camp anyway, but the point is olimar is very advantaged if MK has to come to him. Any ground or short hop approach Olimar is advantaged. If Olimar does not mess up his camp, Olimar can do very very well vs MK. However, most olimars give up because they get gimped once and give up on the matchup, when in reality that is MK's best/only real chance at having the advantage.

Falco: 60/40 MK favor

Diddy: 50/50 equal, if there is any advantage it is 55/45 MK

Game and Watch: 60/40 MK favor, at worst 65/35 if you play it right. In teams, GW has the advantage.

 

[QUIVO]

I'm just saying, he was acting like the reason he lost to kel was solely MK. It was a 2-1 game and from what IIRC, Kel said that OS was too busy trying to camp rather than just fair him from time to time.

 

[brinboy789]

I'm just saying, he was acting like the reason he lost to kel was solely MK. It was a 2-1 game and from what IIRC, Kel said that OS was too busy trying to camp rather than just fair him from time to time.

wow, OS made a HUGE campaign, started this whole ban business, and tried to BREAK OUR MK MAINS HEARTS BECAUSE OF THAT?

*sniff*

 

[salaboB]

i think the whole argument is stupid and should be dropped immediately

I agree, let's ban MK and be done with it.

 

[Turbo Ether]

After this weekend i'm convinced that MK shouldn't be banned. A few characters can win against him consistently. My opinions are based on the constantly-evolving, high level NJ/NY metagame and opinions. Matchup threads on character boards are much less relevant to me.

 

[Mew2King]

First off, when I said drop it i meant the inui/oslee thing, and 2ndly, yes the kel thing was what started it all.

oh yeah there are WAY too many people who just decide to ban MK because they either lose against MK once or don't know how to fight against Tornado. I can't even count that high. If any of you need M2K training, come to NJ and I'll play/train you.

 

[ColinJF]

I reran the script to see if Overswarm's claim of 4chan involvement held any merit.

The following 15 users joined after the poll was created and voted to BAN Meta Knight: Buffles, coolstorybro, Drephigami, Handyman, Icntspll, Lifeshroom, luigismansion1060, qBALL6400, qerkdtx, Shaded_Snow, smashmelee22, STMH, Teran17, Vincent46, Zelgiu

The following 18 users joined after the poll was created and voted NOT TO BAN Meta Knight: BlackaDenBlack, Boom Cube, Burnttoast_90, D.mann, DrizztWar, Greasy, IAmSmarterThanYou, Isane, Martselsoep, morbidlyobssesed, Nocturne953, Oppo28, poisonedkris, rcspitfire, sprks, tabernacle, Ugg, Volacide

It seems that a few more dubious votes have been made since the last time I ran the script (when it was 14-3 Yes-No suspect votes), but it's still very negligible. The 4chan hypothesis appears to be bogus. Nevertheless, notice the rhetorical effect when Overswarm says 'there was a brief 4chan effort to vote "no" to show us "tourney***s".' He is cleverly suggesting that good players (tourney***s as he puts it) are the ones voting to ban Meta Knight, as opposed to leagues of scrubs, which is the actual case.

 

[AL2DAX]

First off, when I said drop it i meant the inui/oslee thing, and 2ndly, yes the kel thing was what started it all.

oh yeah there are WAY too many people who just decide to ban MK because they either lose against MK once or don't know how to fight against Tornado. I can't even count that high. If any of you need M2K training, come to NJ and I'll play/train you.

a little random here, but besides MK and dedede, are there any other characters you're very knowledgeable of?

 

[frdagaa]

I NEVER heard you complain once about MK until you lost to kel and vidjo at rofas...

As I remember, that tournament happened towards the beginning of MK becoming the dominating factor he currently is. Don't blame OS for being human. He didn't prophesy the coming problems: so what. He still was one of the first people to realize what MK would become.

O, and you've done nothing to counter the actual arguments of the pro-ban side. Epic success.

 

[Overswarm]

I reran the script to see if Overswarm's claim of 4chan involvement held any merit.

The following 15 users joined after the poll was created and voted to BAN Meta Knight: Buffles, coolstorybro, Drephigami, Handyman, Icntspll, Lifeshroom, luigismansion1060, qBALL6400, qerkdtx, Shaded_Snow, smashmelee22, STMH, Teran17, Vincent46, Zelgiu

The following 18 users joined after the poll was created and voted NOT TO BAN Meta Knight: BlackaDenBlack, Boom Cube, Burnttoast_90, D.mann, DrizztWar, Greasy, IAmSmarterThanYou, Isane, Martselsoep, morbidlyobssesed, Nocturne953, Oppo28, poisonedkris, rcspitfire, sprks, tabernacle, Ugg, Volacide

It seems that a few more dubious votes have been made since the last time I ran the script (when it was 14-3 Yes-No suspect votes), but it's still very negligible. The 4chan hypothesis appears to be bogus. Nevertheless, notice the rhetorical effect when Overswarm says 'there was a brief 4chan effort to vote "no" to show us "tourney***s".' He is cleverly suggesting that good players (tourney***s as he puts it) are the ones voting to ban Meta Knight, as opposed to leagues of scrubs, which is the actual case.

I like rhetoric.


and the ban MK thing was a gradual case, but if you're looking for a culminating event it was me vs. DSF and doing better with MK overall.... and then not even having to practice to destroy people.

 

[Inui]

After this weekend i'm convinced that MK shouldn't be banned. A few characters can win against him consistently. My opinions are based on the constantly-evolving, high level NJ/NY metagame and opinions. Matchup threads on character boards are much less relevant to me.

You said my exact thoughts in a much nicer way. Good stuff, Ether.

 

[Turbo Ether]

First off, when I said drop it i meant the inui/oslee thing, and 2ndly, yes the kel thing was what started it all.

oh yeah there are WAY too many people who just decide to ban MK because they either lose against MK once or don't know how to fight against Tornado. I can't even count that high. If any of you need M2K training, come to NJ and I'll play/train you.

I could use some training on how to properly nade camp as Snake!

Edit: Inui, yeah the whole MK situation is out of hand. People need to just play the game, learn and improve.