Very rational posting
I'll address your comparison to Street Fighter IIIs, which I've sadly only played casually, not competitively (Chun-Li's strong punch = <3 ).
Get into SF4 while you can. The game's amazing.
x)
Beware of Zangeif.
O_O;;
There's a few things to note. First of all, when there are multiple characters with no bad matchups, the situation isn't so bad (example; Fox and Marth).
Not
so bad, but still bad huh?
Dunno about Marth, but I know people used to always argue over Fox's matchups seeing as certain character could mess him up just as bad as he could to everyone else considering you were smart enough.
Number of Characters, And Their Matchup Distribution
This is the least important difference, but there are twice as many characters in Brawl, making MK's dominance even more notable as more variety should be expected.
I also want to note that, from my understanding, Yun has an even matchup with Makoto, and Chun-Li actually has a LARGER advantage on every character in the cast than Yun does, with her only disadvantage being to Yun.
Meaning, if you play any character except Yun, Chun-Li is probably a worse matchup for you than Yun is. And finally, Makoto has no bad matchups except Chun-Li. Makoto, Yun, and Chun-Li are in the same tier because of this. Yun does not clearly dominate. Nobody suggests MK is in the same tier as the characters below him (except Inui).
Essentially, the top three are for the most part equal, something nonexistant in Brawl. It's closer to Melee Marth/Fox/Sheik trio (Chun-Li being the Sheik).
The Chun-li and Yun situation is very similar to what we have here.MK is only a few characters worst matchup. Most characters are wrecked by another character much worse, or just as bad by Marth. If I find that matchup chart for 3rd Strike I'll post it so you can see how similar it is to the one we have here.
The biggest difference being that Marth has two disadvantaged matchups,( debated aswell but not down to the wire like MK v Snake, more so and so thinks it's even)but if MKs counters ends up( after debate is finalized) in Wario/Snake's favor it will be more of a web than a trio. But that would fix the problem of his no bad matchups anyway huh?
We also have to take into consideration this is the 2nd tier list, made to reflect how well character were placing and at that time Ankoku's ranking list had MK far above any other character, where as he and Snake now share a place,with Wario climbing towards them both rapidly, even though MK has far more representation than both of them. We may be getting closer to trio that's near equal in dominance, but the way things look as of me typing this it may not include MK. Don't hate me for crossing my fingers though.
;D
Just throwing this out there though,as far as dominance in Melee, this might be surprising to many people because of the variety we had, but Marth was more dominant in Melee than MK is in Brawl. I think Ankoku had his current dominance in his his sig, I'll have to ask if this still hold true.
Stage Counterpicking
Smash Bros uses stage counterpicks to increase or decrease matchup advantages. Being able to counterpick a stage beneficial to your character, or poor for your opponent, enables you to reduce a disadvantage in a matchup. Other fights do not have this.
Metaknight breaks BOTH counterpicking systems (characters and stages) by not having a bad stage, either.
As far as characters there is still debate going on. Currently on Snake and Wario.
And as far as stages, several characters only have one bad stage, which banned allows them the same stage immunity as MK. Wario even sharing in some of his best stages.
Going deeper into that he does have stages where his usual prowess is lessened, being Yoshi's Island (Melee), Green Greens, and Final Destination or his survivability is decreased that of Norfair and Halberd.
Not a bad stage like Corneria is for Jiggly (especially v G&W -- disgusting matchup)
But not a neutrals or advantages either. And many character have 'bad' stages to a similar effect.
FD is supposed to be a bad stage for Luigi. The ceiling is higher which is where he gets most of his kills, but it's not like Rainbow Cruise for Peach.
Going off of what I said earlier though, if it comes down to Smash's unique stage counterpicking that makes him broken, shouldn't we input measures to fix that before banning?
Thanks to DDD all of what would have been his worst stages were eliminated.
Hitstun.
This is the most critical, IMO. Consider the difference hitstun makes. If you can read your opponent, even with a disadvantaged character, you only have to catch one mistake and you can punish it with a combo that takes away a significant portion of your opponent's HP, or even a super. Zero deaths exist.
In a game without significant hitstun, punishing one mistake (unless it's with a gimp, which virtually never happens to MK) is rarely enough to turn the side. You have to punish consistent mistakes. Which means that matchup gaps are MUCH MORE VISIBLE- you have to catch EVERY mistake, and when a character is capable of showing as few flaws as MK, that often means outplaying him by a wide margin.
A 6-4 disadvantage in Street Fighter < a 6-4 disadvantage in Brawl.
This is definitely the most critical. I can't even respond to this,besides saying I see your point. Yun having the advantage every character but one is in no way like MK having an advantage over all but one.
HDRemix Akuma was banned because he still destroyed everyone with an option no Turbo character is supposed to have, a 100% safe jump in.
This sound like what alot of people thought the tornado was for MK until a list with several moves for every character that beats it came out.
None are as epic as Jiggz' inner rest though.
The guy trying to get him banned, a former (and present) Zangief player also manned up and proved his **** and beat some dominators like Justin Wong to argue a case to get him banned.
This also sounds like something that happened with Brawl. The player being Overswarm. I remember him saying something about him being able to frame trap or something like that using d-tilt and f-tilt but I never saw it myself.
In anycase, sounds like the HD tourneys are going to be pretty fun. I might have to start practicing.
Some interesting parallels I found:
-Character is unanimously agreed upon as the best in the game.
-Character has advantage over most other characters, goes even with a few, and has only one possible disadvantaged match-up. (Some claim it to be a 40-60 disadvantage, many others claim it to be 50-50, and some maintain that it is, in fact, 60-40 or worse.)
Do you know if they were saying this before or after they found out Akuma had that 100% safe jump in because if after those numbers seem pretty ridiculous.
Still, it's important to remember that none of that provides outright justification for a MK ban in and of itself. There are similarities, true, but MK is not Akuma, and Brawl is not HDR. Whatever is best for Brawl should be the guiding factor here; not what others have done. I only posted this because numerous people have sporadically referenced Street Fighter and Akuma all throughout this debate, so I thought this information would be interesting to some people here. If it isn't relevant, feel free to remove it. (Or ask me to do so.)
It's always good to reference success to help guide though.
Thanks for the info.
Yes we can. We more than any other gaming community deserve to ban what we feel like, since we basically made Smash Bros what it is. From development of ATs to the style the majority plays in ( short hop approaches and the like). Brawl wasn't even supposed to be a fighting game, with it's random elements and half the disc being story mode video, but look at where it is now. It's no melee but it's worth putting time,effort, and money into for the fun and challenge we get in return.
If majority rules, then I guess it's bye bye MetaKnight. I can't say I'll be as upset as the people who said they'd quit Brawl if he is removed (lulz), but I will give a big sigh as he's the funnest character to play for me.
The best players are the best because of their skill not their character.
The top 3 for SF2 remained the top 3 even after Akuma was banned.
Anyway this is proof MK should be banned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBL5GqXbmuU
Even the game hates MK
Roffles.
Roffles indeed.
(:
If I could, I'd change my vote from "no" to "not sure."
Haha, I know how you feel.