Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***

[Shao-tan]

He meant MaNg0 plays Brawl.

And learns pretty quickly, why do you assume he's talking about melee?

MaNg0 wouldn't get 13th place in a Melee tournament LOL.

When I said he, I meant Sephirots Masamune.

how many times has Mango beat M2K in brawl? and who did he use?

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

There was really absolute no reason to bring up the fact that MK still wins tournaments despite the fact that we banned two of his weapons. Absolutely no reason. What possible contribution does it have to the current debate? None.

Not quite; I've read posts that say MK will either be banned or he won't; compromise [like limiting MK to being usable once per set or removing moves from his moveset] would be easily shot down by the SBR-B.

KID says MK is already being compromised in gameplay. Why would the SBR-B allow MK to be used in gameplay as a compromised character, which would contradict many posts in this thread saying that MK will either be banned or he won't? If anything is done to MK, does this now mean MK has to be banned?

I'm still undecided, just putting my 2c on the discussion.

 

[Master Raven]

You jumped to conclusions. All stupid ******** obnoxious MK superpowers aside, I would be anti-ban if he had some sort of counter. Which he doesn't. (In before SNAKE DIDDY AND FOX COUNTER HIM OMG).

By the way, if M2K is so confident that he's just so unbeatable that using MK doesn't even matter, why does he? I want to see him take down Dojo without MK.

Actually all it would take to end this debate is at least one even matchup (that is even on multiple stages and not just one stage).

Btw, Atomsk 3-1'd Dojo in a MM, M2K can do just fine.

 

[Yuna]

Not quite; I've read posts that say MK will either be banned or he won't; compromise [like limiting MK to being usable once per set or removing moves from his moveset] would be easily shot down by the SBR-B.

KID says MK is already being compromised in gameplay. Why would the SBR-B allow MK to be used in gameplay as a compromised character, which would contradict many posts in this thread saying that MK will either be banned or he won't? If anything is done to MK, does this now mean MK has to be banned?

I'm still undecided, just putting my 2c on the discussion.

No, da K.I.D. just admitted to the fact that MK being allowed with compromises does not make him ban-worthy since Fox has tons of stuff in Melee banned for his sake alone.

 

[OmniOstrich]

Something that doesn't seem to have been addressed so far is this:

Will all or even most TOs ban MK even if the SBR-B decides to do so? It doesn't really matter what is decided here if TOs dont enforce a ban.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

:flame:
Considering that there is only less than 10% difference between Yes and No, I doubt he's going to be banned this time. And this pole is mainly to let the Tournament Operators know what the general public feels about this, so that they can decide to ban or allow Metaknight at tournaments. Atleast, that's what I'm thinking.
:flame:

 

[IrisKong]

This whole debate is pointless really, when it will really come into effect is after we see the results for Genises.

 

[Noble-]

This thread is confusing.

 

[PK-ow!]

Something that doesn't seem to have been addressed so far is this:

Will all or even most TOs ban MK even if the SBR-B decides to do so? It doesn't really matter what is decided here if TOs dont enforce a ban.

Everyone is free to be ignorant.

A decision isn't just some proclamation. It's not the SBR saying "Hey guys, here's some rules." If it was, then yes, who the **** would care. On some things, we can, by necessity, take the SBR's statements on authority, since there's some reason for believing they have knowledge and, the more important, integrity.

But you aren't going to have someone just say "MK should be banned". Anyone saying it (or saying "MK should not be banned") is equally useless. The end result of the SBR's deliberation would be a statement and a reason. That is, reasoning.

Those reasons would make it matter, because - if they're really good reasons - it would make the statement right. Forget legitimacy. You're right that many TOs don't think too much about the idea of legitimacy and the whole gig with the SBR for uniformity in America. But I'm going to take this to a higher level than legitimacy.

This is like law and morality. Would you say litigators don't matter too much if there their laws won't be enforced... even when what they're investigating is what is good?

Of those ban cases, there is one of those which is the right thing to do, and TOs can be judged; they are subjective to normative* terms covering the health of the game. They can fail to do right by the game.
"It would matter" because the TOs that don't line up with what is shown would be subject to the negative terms of those norms*. They'd be bad. That's something at stake. And this, you know, the players can notice, and alter their attendance how they see fit.

That's how it's not the case that "it doesn't matter."


*normative means "evaluative" or "of measurement against a good/bad scale of some sort". 'Norms' are the scale (they're plural but scale is singular, I know).
EDIT: It is *NOOOOT* the same thing as "conformity" or "normalness".

 

[tekkie]

Btw, Atomsk 3-1'd Dojo in a MM, M2K can do just fine.

Then I'd love to see top MK players using other characters at future big tournaments. Didn't happen at WHOBO, maybe it'll happen at Genesis.

Just kidding. That'll never happen.

edit:

This whole debate is pointless really, when it will really come into effect is after we see the results for Genises.

I'm calling it now: Top two MK, Snake and maybe Falco/Dedede/Other high tier somewhere in top 5/6. Five or six MK's in top ten, and at least eight or nine will use MK at some point. Also, everyone is going to be amazed/cheering for those lower tier (3rd or 4th highest) and their placement.

 

[OmniOstrich]

Everyone is free to be ignorant.

A decision isn't just some proclamation. It's not the SBR saying "Hey guys, here's some rules." If it was, then yes, who the **** would care. On some things, we can, by necessity, take the SBR's statements on authority, since there's some reason for believing they have knowledge and, the more important, integrity.

But you aren't going to have someone just say "MK should be banned". Anyone saying it (or saying "MK should not be banned") is equally useless. The end result of the SBR's deliberation would be a statement and a reason. That is, reasoning.

Those reasons would make it matter, because - if they're really good reasons - it would make the statement right. Forget legitimacy. You're right that many TOs don't think too much about the idea of legitimacy and the whole gig with the SBR for uniformity in America. But I'm going to take this to a higher level than legitimacy.

This is like law and morality. Would you say litigators don't matter too much if there their laws won't be enforced... even when what they're investigating is what is good?

Of those ban cases, there is one of those which is the right thing to do, and TOs can be judged; they are subjective to normative* terms covering the health of the game. They can fail to do right by the game.
"It would matter" because the TOs that don't line up with what is shown would be subject to the negative terms of those norms*. They'd be bad. That's something at stake. And this, you know, the players can notice, and alter their attendance how they see fit.

That's how it's not the case that "it doesn't matter."


*normative means "evaluative" or "of measurement against a good/bad scale of some sort". 'Norms' are the scale (they're plural but scale is singular, I know).
EDIT: It is *NOOOOT* the same thing as "conformity" or "normalness".

Wow that was extremely aggressive, i didnt mean to sound condescending. The fact of the matter is a lot of tournaments with +40 entrants (which most people would consider large tournaments, correct?) do not currently abide by SBR rules with regards to stage bans.

For example, there have been lots of East Coast tournaments where Yoshi's Island(brawl) is not a neutral stage. I also hardly ever hear of Pirate Ship or Pokemon Stadium 2 being legal on the east coast, despite its position on the SBR ruleset.

All I'm saying is that until there is irrefutable evidence that metaknight makes the game unbalanced and that it is nigh impossible to win with any other character it is highly unlikely that TOs will ban him, outside of personal agendas and/or loyalties.

 

[Master Raven]

Then I'd love to see top MK players using other characters at future big tournaments. Didn't happen at WHOBO, maybe it'll happen at Genesis.

Just kidding. That'll never happen.

Dojo and Lee Martin would like to have a word with you.

 

[swordgard]

Why should I give you the benefit of tact when your sig is not only slanderous but also deceitful (openly lying)?

Anyway, so what was the point of bringing up the fact that MK still dominates despite the fact that we banned two of his weapons? You only wanted to do that to bring more focus to the fact that MK is really, really good.

Without being able to prove he's "Too good", you've chosen to simply concentrate on emphasizing, time and again, that he's really good, hoping to blind the less intelligent or analytical, hoping to sway unsure voters and people not too well-versed with the subject.

There was really absolute no reason to bring up the fact that MK still wins tournaments despite the fact that we banned two of his weapons. Absolutely no reason. What possible contribution does it have to the current debate? None.

Once again, im gonna have to agree with you. Saying MK is very powerfull wont change anything.

Heres the thing you can currently do:
Bring up new valid ban criteria.
Refute ban criteria.

Proove that MK is bannable by these valid ban criteria
Refute that he is.

Just saying hes really good randomly wont say shiz cause you need discrete and specific reasons to ban him.

 

[|RK|]

Dojo and Lee Martin would like to have a word with you.

Lee mains Lucario.

 

[IrisKong]

I'm calling it now: Top two MK, Snake and maybe Falco/Dedede/Other high tier somewhere in top 5/6. Five or six MK's in top ten, and at least eight or nine will use MK at some point. Also, everyone is going to be amazed/cheering for those lower tier (3rd or 4th highest) and their placement.

I have a feeling if over half of the top 10 at Genisis is MK, then things will change. And before anyone says how that placement wont matter, they are dead wrong, if over half of the top 10 is MK, it will show that there is a problem becuase all of the best players in the USA, possibly the world, for all the different characters are going to be there The best snakes//falcos/D3/G&W/Wario ect. if they cant take care of the MK problem, what makes you think the players that arent as good as them can? So again, we will have to wait and see, any debating until then is prety pointless and is just going to irritate people on both sides of the argument.

 

[Tommy_G]

GGXXAC has Eddie with his worst matchup being 55-45 to 50-50 arguably and is not banned

Smash 64 has pikachu with no bad match ups and is not banned.

SSF turbo II banned Akuma. The smash equivalent of akuma would be if falco had an instant kill move if you block his laser at a certain distance from him.

MK isnt broken. He's just hard to beat.

 

[Master Raven]

Lee mains Lucario.

He used to main MK and was a top MK then.

 

[tekkie]

Dojo and Lee Martin would like to have a word with you.

1: M2K=meta
2: Dojo=meta
3: DSF=meta/snake/wario
4: Lee Martin=lucario/meta
...
9: Ultimate razer=snake
...
17: Gnes=diddy
...
33: phantomx=wario

1: Razer (snake/diddy)
2: Gnes (Diddy/dedede)
3: Phantom X (wario)
*4: Dojo (diddy/kirby)

Lee Martin used MK at WHOBO. Dojo used MK exclusively at WHOBO. Without MK, he got shut down to fourth, getting beaten by the 9th, 17th, and 33rd placers at WHOBO.

 

[Master Raven]

Hylian has stated somewhere that Dojo won a tourney not too long ago at Texas beating a few ranked players using only Kirby/Diddy. He went MK only once.

Lee Martin only went MK once vs CO18 and barely won via timer by 2% on the last second.

Now of course the former isn't a major tourney, but don't fool yourself into thinking someone as skilled as Dojo wouldn't be able to win a nationwide event without MK if he winds up being banned. Lee Martin also regularly wins tournies at Lousiana going all Lucario most of the time.

 

[Yuna]

I have a feeling if over half of the top 10 at Genisis is MK, then things will change. And before anyone says how that placement wont matter, they are dead wrong, if over half of the top 10 is MK, it will show that there is a problem becuase all of the best players in the USA, possibly the world, for all the different characters are going to be there The best snakes//falcos/D3/G&W/Wario ect. if they cant take care of the MK problem, what makes you think the players that arent as good as them can? So again, we will have to wait and see, any debating until then is prety pointless and is just going to irritate people on both sides of the argument.

SFIII: 3rd Strike has Chun-Li winning pretty much every single tournament in existence and taking pretty much 75% of all Top 10 spots. Yet it was and remains one of the most Competitive and popular fightin games of all times.

Why? Because the members of other fighting game communities aren't as whiny, *****y and obsessed with "diversity" and "fun, fun, fun" as the Brawl community is. Welcome to life. Life is unfair. Your favourite character might not be viable.

Either drop your character for an actually viable character (of which there are several, not just MK) or suck it up and deal with it. This isn't GGXX where even the Bottom Tiers can win major tournaments. This is Brawl, where over half of the characters are utterly unviable.

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

No, da K.I.D. just admitted to the fact that MK being allowed with compromises does not make him ban-worthy since Fox has tons of stuff in Melee banned for his sake alone.

Well, that doesn't answer quite everything. If the result is gonna be MK is banned or MK stays, then why is planking banned? Maybe it's comparing apples to oranges, but I don't see much of a difference between banning planking and saying MK players have to map the special button to not existing; they both hurt MK's game.

The fox thing works though; if rules were put in place because of fox and fox alone in melee, then he should have been banned if the mindset of 'ban or keep' is to be maintained. I don't see how tournament results factor into this, maybe they do and I don't see it.

 

[Nic64]

Lee Martin used MK at WHOBO. Dojo used MK exclusively at WHOBO. Without MK, he got shut down to fourth, getting beaten by the 9th, 17th, and 33rd placers at WHOBO.

lee used MK once as a counterpick, he could have done the same with falco or IC's but being a former MK main he already knew the character best.

wow he placed worse with his secondary? who'd have thought it lol. random tournaments that ban MK don't really mean anything, it's not a permanent change that people are actually attempting to adapt to.

 

[Anth0ny]

I have a feeling if over half of the top 10 at Genisis is MK, then things will change. And before anyone says how that placement wont matter, they are dead wrong, if over half of the top 10 is MK, it will show that there is a problem becuase all of the best players in the USA, possibly the world, for all the different characters are going to be there The best snakes//falcos/D3/G&W/Wario ect. if they cant take care of the MK problem, what makes you think the players that arent as good as them can? So again, we will have to wait and see, any debating until then is prety pointless and is just going to irritate people on both sides of the argument.

I'm calling it now: Top two MK, Snake and maybe Falco/Dedede/Other high tier somewhere in top 5/6. Five or six MK's in top ten, and at least eight or nine will use MK at some point. Also, everyone is going to be amazed/cheering for those lower tier (3rd or 4th highest) and their placement.

I have a feeling that it will consist of 3 MKs, 1 Snake, 2 Lucarios, 1 Pikachu, 1 DDD, 1 Kirby and...eh...let's say a Wario. Or maybe a Falco. Or a Diddy. Or a ROB. It's all up for grabs!

I'm not gonna name drop, but I think it's pretty obvious who is going to place high at this tournament, and I honestly don't believe that more than three MKs will crack the top 10.

I also don't think that the top 3 will consist of 3 MKs

 

[DMG]

Hylian has stated somewhere that Dojo won a tourney not too long ago at Texas beating a few ranked players using only Kirby/Diddy. He went MK only once.

Lee Martin only went MK once vs CO18 and barely won via timer by 2% on the last second.

Now of course the former isn't a major tourney, but don't fool yourself into thinking someone as skilled as Dojo wouldn't be able to win a nationwide event without MK if he winds up being banned. Lee Martin also regularly wins tournies at Lousiana going all Lucario most of the time.

The tourney you are referring to was a small Dallas tourney. Not all of our best players were there, and he did go MK more than once (The tournament said you could only go MK for 1 game out of a set, including the Finals).

He also got 4th at HOBO 16 recently (MK banned). I'm not saying Dojo cannot/will not win without MK but even some of the better players who aren't ranked in our state/ranked on the lower end can give him a hard time where as normally only the top 5 in Texas would honestly pose a real threat to him in tournament.

Lee wins the tournaments in Louisianna because he's better than everyone else in the State (Ask Sudai or Cyphus). They have very good players like Sudai, Cyphus, Pierre, but Lee's just on a level above that.

Also Anthony, most people think MK will take the top 3 spots at Genesis. Something like M2K, Dojo/Tyrant/DSF, and then another one of those guys or someone good like TKD. I mean sure you could say there's a chance for me, Reflex, Fiction, DEHF, /top players of other characters to break top 3 but realistically we would not be the favorites to get into those spots.

 

[Master Raven]

The tourney you are referring to was a small Dallas tourney. Not all of our best players were there, and he did go MK more than once (The tournament said you could only go MK for 1 game out of a set, including the Finals).

He also got 4th at HOBO 16 recently (MK banned). I'm not saying Dojo cannot/will not win without MK but even some of the better players who aren't ranked in our state/ranked on the lower end can give him a hard time where as normally only the top 5 in Texas would honestly pose a real threat to him in tournament.

god****it Hylian rofl

Yeah I understand DMG but I just find it really silly that anyone would think a top MK main would never be able to use other characters at future big tournies. Lee Martin's placed quite well with Lucario in those events.

 

[Popertop]

I think fiction will place top ten

 

[Yuna]

The tourney you are referring to was a small Dallas tourney. Not all of our best players were there, and he did go MK more than once (The tournament said you could only go MK for 1 game out of a set, including the Finals).

Oh I see. Dallas is Scrubville or Idioit Town.

"You can only play MK for a maximum of one match per set"? What an idiotic rule (worse than actually banning MK straight off, IMO). Either ban him straight off or don't. Laughable and pathetic.

 

[IrisKong]

SFIII: 3rd Strike has Chun-Li winning pretty much every single tournament in existence and taking pretty much 75% of all Top 10 spots. Yet it was and remains one of the most Competitive and popular fightin games of all times.

Why? Because the members of other fighting game communities aren't as whiny, *****y and obsessed with "diversity" and "fun, fun, fun" as the Brawl community is. Welcome to life. Life is unfair. Your favourite character might not be viable.

Either drop your character for an actually viable character (of which there are several, not just MK) or suck it up and deal with it. This isn't GGXX where even the Bottom Tiers can win major tournaments. This is Brawl, where over half of the characters are utterly unviable.

Umm.. im not complaining, im stating a very viable conclusion as to what may happen in the coming months. And other fighting games are much different than brawl, and to be honest, the smash brother games were never meant to be as competitive as they are, they were ment to be fun just for fun (dont argue that fact its pointless). Regardless if you think its not about diversity or fun, to alot of people it is. and believe it or not, the metaknight problem has caused people to stop playing brawl, at least in a competitive way. That is something we do not want, we want as many people playing as possible. I totally agree, half the cast isnt tourny viable, but even less are viable with MK in the picture. Im not complaining, im stating what I see and hear from other people. Genisis is going to show alot of what this game is about, and I have a feeling several things that are controversial will be put to rest by it, weather that be banning stages/characters/whatever.

 

[DMG]

Oh I see. Dallas is Scrubville or Idioit Town.

"You can only play MK for a maximum of one match per set"? What an idiotic rule (worse than actually banning MK straight off, IMO). Either ban him straight off or don't. Laughable and pathetic.

Yuna, the TO's name is Kirby Kid. The Dallas Scene put up with his weird rules (SUMMIT AND SKYWORLD WERE ALLOWED, MK was not allowed in teams, etc) for awhile because the players themselves would agree to allow MK in teams when they played each other and they agreed to not pick stages like Skyworld or Summit, but then at that tourney/the one before he introduced the rule about using MK only 1 game in a set. Next month most of the good players completely stopped going there and decided to run their own tourney/hold their own Smashfests. Trust me, Dallas isn't scrubville, the usual TO just wanted to do things his way instead of asking the players how they felt/following the SBR ruleset a bit closer.

Edit:

god****it Hylian rofl

Yeah I understand DMG but I just find it really silly that anyone would think a top MK main would never be able to use other characters at future big tournies. Lee Martin's placed quite well with Lucario in those events.

Oh yeah, no I agree MK mains (at least the very good ones) are not helpless without MK, they more than likely have the capacity to learn another character at a very high level. I was just pointing out that without MK he would have more threats against him in tourney. For example, a great Wario or Marth would be tougher for Dojo to beat with Kirby or Diddy (his best secondary characters IMO), than if he went MK just because the character matchups would tighten up a bit.

 

[|RK|]

god****it Hylian rofl

Yeah I understand DMG but I just find it really silly that anyone would think a top MK main would never be able to use other characters at future big tournies. Lee Martin's placed quite well with Lucario in those events.

Again, Lee Martin doesn't really use MK much. He uses Lucario and ZSS.

 

[aeghrur]

Oh I see. Dallas is Scrubville or Idioit Town.

"You can only play MK for a maximum of one match per set"? What an idiotic rule (worse than actually banning MK straight off, IMO). Either ban him straight off or don't. Laughable and pathetic.

Chill, no one said Dallas was scrubville or idiot town, and you shouldn't either.
I didn't know logic suggested that one tournament is supposed to represent a whole, million population, city.
That must've been a scrubby tourny though.

 

[Yuna]

Umm.. im not complaining, im stating a very viable conclusion as to what may happen in the coming months. And other fighting games are much different than brawl, and to be honest, the smash brother games were never meant to be as competitive as they are, they were ment to be fun just for fun (dont argue that fact its pointless). Regardless if you think its not about diversity or fun, to alot of people it is. and believe it or not, the metaknight problem has caused people to stop playing brawl, at least in a competitive way. That is something we do not want, we want as many people playing as possible. I totally agree, half the cast isnt tourny viable, but even less are viable with MK in the picture. Im not complaining, im stating what I see and hear from other people. Genisis is going to show alot of what this game is about, and I have a feeling several things that are controversial will be put to rest by it, weather that be banning stages/characters/whatever.

You cannot have it both ways. Either play Brawl Competitively and Play to Win and learn to play according to the Competitive mindset or go back to casual gaming. People cannot expect to play Brawl Competitively, yet also maximize (or at least place a lot of emphasis on) fun or diversity.

The people who stopped playing Brawl because of MK alone were whiny Scrubs. Good riddance to them. Because if you actually sit down and try to learn to deal with MK, you'll realize it's not really that hard... unless you happen to have a really ****ty match-up against him, to which I say "Either live with your horrible lifestyle choice or change yourself."

Yuna, the TO's name is Kirby Kid. The Dallas Scene put up with his weird rules (SUMMIT AND SKYWORLD WERE ALLOWED, MK was not allowed in teams, etc) for awhile because the players themselves would agree to allow MK in teams when they played each other and they agreed to allow MK in teams, but then at that tourney he introduced the rule about using MK only 1 game in a set. Next month most of the good players completely stopped going there and decided to run their own tourney/hold their own Smashfests. Trust me, Dallas isn't scrubville, the usual TO just wanted to do things his way instead of asking the players how they felt/following the SBR ruleset a bit closer.

Thank God, I thought Dallas had gone mad. Pft Kirby Kid. I'll remember that name.

Chill, no one said Dallas was scrubville or idiot town, and you shouldn't either.
I didn't know logic suggested that one tournament is supposed to represent a whole, million population, city.
That must've been a scrubby tourny though.

I just thought it was representative of how Dallas tournies usually are run ruleset-wise. I was mistaken.

 

[JayBee]

Umm.. im not complaining, im stating a very viable conclusion as to what may happen in the coming months. And other fighting games are much different than brawl, and to be honest, the smash brother games were never meant to be as competitive as they are, they were ment to be fun just for fun (dont argue that fact its pointless). Regardless if you think its not about diversity or fun, to alot of people it is. and believe it or not, the metaknight problem has caused people to stop playing brawl, at least in a competitive way. That is something we do not want, we want as many people playing as possible. I totally agree, half the cast isnt tourny viable, but even less are viable with MK in the picture. Im not complaining, im stating what I see and hear from other people. Genisis is going to show alot of what this game is about, and I have a feeling several things that are controversial will be put to rest by it, weather that be banning stages/characters/whatever.

i agree on that also after Apex will we see a very strong example of meta's supoosed dominance. if after apex and genesis meta clearly dominates, i dont see why people would not even consider a ban this year for him. if the board is quite diverse i may even switch over to non ban but seriously i dont think that will happen.

MK keeps other characters in check so that they aren't God Tier chars as well (DDD I'm lookin at u) and MK is still very beatable if you know what you're doing.

Bottom line, he shouldn't be banned.

if a character has no counters doesn't that contradict your theory that MK somehow makes the game more balanced?

 

[Master Raven]

Again, Lee Martin doesn't really use MK much. He uses Lucario and ZSS.

Did you not read my post where I've stated that Lee was a former top MK main?

 

[IrisKong]

You cannot have it both ways. Either play Brawl Competitively and Play to Win and learn to play according to the Competitive mindset or go back to casual gaming. People cannot expect to play Brawl Competitively, yet also maximize (or at least place a lot of emphasis on) fun or diversity.

The people who stopped playing Brawl because of MK alone were whiny Scrubs. Good riddance to them. Because if you actually sit down and try to learn to deal with MK, you'll realize it's not really that hard... unless you happen to have a really ****ty match-up against him, to which I say "Either live with your horrible lifestyle choice or change yourself."
.

LoL...Having fun is what videogames are made for. And saying that its not hard to fight against MK is a battle that will never be won. A good MK has the advantage over a good (insert character name here) to say that is wrong is just ignoring the obvious physics of the game. Again, once genisis is over, im sure the standings will put a number of things to rest. What I find funny is that alot of MK mains agree that he needs to be banned and a bunch of people who do not play him say he shouldnt be banned, my guess is they just havent played really good MK's. Im eager to see how Genisis pans out, APEX will be cool to see to, but im more concerned about Genisis.

 

[brinboy789]

^ alot of MK mains agree that he needs to be banned? who? besides OS?

 

[vicious1990]

is thread is so wack

 

[Tommy_G]

i hate the brawl community....

 

[JayBee]

Yun. Pickup and **** your friends.

Yes, why bother with a character you use to win who's style isn't as fun for you, when you can use a character who's style is fun for you and win.

I agree with that. Problem?


For now I'm gonna say that I'm a Brawl player, and I wouldn't miss all these whinners if they left.


(There's a difference between whinners and debaters/ people who have competitively relevant reasons for feeling a ways about something.)

1: Yun wasn't the best character, and the thing that made him ********, his SA Genei Jin, required skill to get the combo you needed, as he can still he hit , and blocked out of getting.


2: you cay that so easily, yet people have changed characters that aren't as fun for them, simply because they win. brawl ins't some magical exception to the rule.

3: wow. nice comeback, though the fact that you assume people who dont like MK are whiners is deplorable, and somewhat expected. brawl wouldn't miss people like that if they left...

4: so i guess nothing i said before was relevant to brawl in any way, it must have been relevant to something else than, for no other reason than that you couldn't see it. whatever.

 

[Yuna]

LoL...Having fun is what videogames are made for. And saying that its not hard to fight against MK is a battle that will never be won. A good MK has the advantage over a good (insert character name here) to say that is wrong is just ignoring the obvious physics of the game. Again, once genisis is over, im sure the standings will put a number of things to rest. What I find funny is that alot of MK mains agree that he needs to be banned and a bunch of people who do not play him say he shouldnt be banned, my guess is they just havent played really good MK's. Im eager to see how Genisis pans out, APEX will be cool to see to, but im more concerned about Genisis.

What part of "We do not ban things to maximize fun" sounded like "We do not have fun"?

1: Yun wasn't the best character, and the thing that made him ********, his SA Genei Jin, required skill to get the combo you needed, as he can still he hit , and blocked out of getting.

What Cirno said was that Yun didn't have any disadvantangeous match-ups, with his worst being, at most, even, the same as Meta Knight. Don't twist people's words.

Are you saying that the fact that what makes Yun so idiotically good requires technical skill makes him less bannable than were it easier to master? I say "No". Nobody cares about the lesser skilled people. Nobody cares whether less technical players can or cannot easily master something. If something is broken, it is broken.

We only look at the top players. Also, Geneijin is one long giant mixup where if you guess wrong even once he has a preposterously long combo on you (not to mention that it can be comboed into) which lasts for quite some time even after Geneijin runs out.

But Chun-Li ***** the game more, overall, yes. In fact, Chun-Li is the Meta Knight of 3S. And no one's whining about how she needs to be banned.

2: you cay that so easily, yet people have changed characters that aren't as fun for them, simply because they win. brawl ins't some magical exception to the rule.

And, just like all other Competitive fighting games, Brawl shouldn't be overly ban-happy.

3: wow. nice comeback, though the fact that you assume people who dont like MK are whiners is deplorable, and somewhat expected. brawl wouldn't miss people like that if they left...

He never said this.

4: so i guess nothing i said before was relevant to brawl in any way, it must have been relevant to something else than, for no other reason than that you couldn't see it. whatever.

There's a huge difference between simply whining "Meta Knight is too good, ban him!" and using invalid arguments and actually trying to create a coherent, cohesive, factual and logical argument.