• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Should Metaknight be Banned? **Take 2** (Post-podcast)

Should Metaknight be banned?


  • Total voters
    1,590
Status
Not open for further replies.

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
22,906
Location
Milpitas, CA
NNID
SSBM_PLAYER
The only way to guarantee infinite drillshining in Melee was in a "cage," like Stadium's Rock stage valley. Anything larger would allow SDI to escape from the range of the Shine.

Infinite waveshining, however, requires only a wall to ensure inescapability.

You might be able to escape JC Shine infinite against a wall by SDIing up rapidly due to how quickly the Shines come (once every 4 frames), but I'm not so sure about this one.
 

Mini Mic

Taller than Mic_128
BRoomer
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
11,207
I voted no. I don't really care either way I only did it to cancel out your vote, yeah that's right yours, how does it feel punk? Huh? HUH?!
 

Vyse

Faith, Hope, Love, Luck
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Messages
9,561
Location
Brisbane, Australia
wtf? Get back to the PRoom Mic, don't make me come to Melbourne to deliver justice to your rear end.

...

Good choice on your vote though.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
The only way to guarantee infinite drillshining in Melee was in a "cage," like Stadium's Rock stage valley. Anything larger would allow SDI to escape from the range of the Shine.

Infinite waveshining, however, requires only a wall to ensure inescapability.

You might be able to escape JC Shine infinite against a wall by SDIing up rapidly due to how quickly the Shines come (once every 4 frames), but I'm not so sure about this one.
The hitstun was larger than the lag frm the shine, so you had to slow it down a bit.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
??? What's hitstun have to do with anything?
If you did the shine as fast as possible, you could SDI up repeatedly to get out since the shine was faster than the hitstun. Fox players could slow it down, and watch you SDI up, hit the ground, get shined again, repeat.
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
22,906
Location
Milpitas, CA
NNID
SSBM_PLAYER
If you did the shine as fast as possible, you could SDI up repeatedly to get out since the shine was faster than the hitstun. Fox players could slow it down, and watch you SDI up, hit the ground, get shined again, repeat.
...Yes, the reason you're able to escape is because SDI pulls you out faster than gravity can act on you. And hitstun is the reason you can slow the timing of the Shine. However, slowing it down would kind of kill the point of doing JC Shine infinite over a simple waveshine. :)
 

Delvro

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
530
Location
Lexington, KY
Let's ban Luigi's and mario's fireballs too, but only against Dedede

I use 100+ fireballs in a Dedede match... ban it!

On a serious note... I will *probably* be banning Dedede's standing infinites against the 5... although for 3 of them (Luigi, mario, and samus) it requires grab-hits (meaning you can get out by mashing really fast)... it doesn't seem to help except at low percents.
The video of wario getting out of Dedede's grab at 110% still concerns me, as I have not been able to replicate it. Is there a general consensus on the approximate max % you can get out of Dedede's grab with a single hit and then a Dthrough
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
mario is amazing....tis all
you tell 'em, boss! ^_^
Fixed for you Hero :p.
lol thanks, Mario's d-tilt is broken.
I think that we should ban Mario's D-tilt.
Lol nah, Dedede's infinite counters Mario down tilt :(.
That is unless... we space with it! DeDeDe can't get past the d-tilt!
Let's ban Luigi's and mario's fireballs too, but only against Dedede

I use 100+ fireballs in a Dedede match... ban it!

On a serious note... I will *probably* be banning Dedede's standing infinites against the 5... although for 3 of them (Luigi, mario, and samus) it requires grab-hits (meaning you can get out by mashing really fast)... it doesn't seem to help except at low percents.
The video of wario getting out of Dedede's grab at 110% still concerns me, as I have not been able to replicate it. Is there a general consensus on the approximate max % you can get out of Dedede's grab with a single hit and then a Dthrough
lol the plumber makes another house call...GOOD **** EVERYONE!!! XD
This thread is starting to fail...
Fix'd.

10redhats.


..!!!

I'm familiar with this tactic.

lets make this like every other thread on the sonic boards and FILL IT WITH STEAK
Are you trying to get this thread closed? That previous movement was something equivalent to an epic success and an epic failure at he same time.
:093:
 

Camalange

Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
May 12, 2008
Messages
9,420
Location
Seattle
NNID
Camalange
3DS FC
1160-9836-5007
Switch FC
SW-4197-1438-9208
rofl, I never thought I'd see so much win in this thread.

:093:
 

theONEjanitor

Smash Champion
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
2,497
Location
Birmingham, AL
NNID
the1janitor
I don't believe I made clear where I stand on this whole thing, but it's pretty cool of you to assume I'm for the ban just because I disagree with you. Yeah, it's also pretty cool that you think I suck since you think I'm for the ban.
Its even cooler how you don't understand the use of the universal "you".

Wait, you're talking about Meta Knight? For a moment it looked like Melee Sheik until you said "glide attack." Doesn't Meta Knight also have a solid nair, a fast comboable uair, a very good dtilt and ftilt, and one hell of a great finisher in Shuttle Loop? If players are using three moves the entire time with Meta Knight then yes, they are being predictable, and it's their fault, not Meta Knight's.
I'm pretty sure i said MK's use ONLY those three moves, and no other moves whatsoever, didn't I? Oh wait, no i didn't.
You can't win with metaknight if you DON'T use those moves. that doesn't mean you don't use other moves as well, genius. I defy anyone to try and win against someone of equal skill without d-smashing, f-air, or glide-attack.

Ending the glide close to the ground results in no additional landing lag. Glide attacking late to avoid hitting a shield is an option. Glide attacking from a well-spaced position works to avoid being punished out of shield. Pick one, or just keep gliding past and grab a ledge.
If you keep gliding you'll get fsmashed by anyone who isn't brain dead. If you get in the way of a Metaknight after up b, unless he's ******** he will glide attack, period. there's nothing else to do. if you keep gliding, you will get punished.

G&W is pretty handily beaten by those who can deal with his aerial zoning game, since his ground game is more composed of finishers than approaches. Meta Knight just has more trouble with some characters than he would with most.
there's no character than can readily deal with his aerial zoning game. except possibly MK. brawl is an aerial game in general, over half the characters in the game have terrible ground games. and gw's is above average. and his finishers are retardedly strong such that you dont even have to build much damage to get kills.


I think they mean tournament finals being MK vs. MK ankoku... some people do better using a non-MK character, but ultimately Meta-knight mainers will be the winners of every tournament.
Good MK's will win most tournaments, because he's the best character. That makes sense. When you ban MK, good Snakes will win every tournament.

Janitor, you apparently haven't seen many brands of metaknight. Metaknight also has an incredible dash grab, he can dair people's shield while using his multiple jumps, walk up to several characters and just start ftilting.... plus the glide attack, plus the tornado, plus the fair. There's a lot of ways you can play him
you can not, i repeat, can not win with MK (against good players) if you don't use d-smash, and fair, and glide attack.

shield counters f-tilt. you'll only get hit by it if you make a mistake or misjudge the range.
dair is a problem but it doesn't win matches for MK. tornado is little more than a nuisance and most characters have an answer for it.
 

salaboB

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Messages
2,136
Good MK's will win most tournaments, because he's the best character. That makes sense. When you ban MK, good Snakes will win every tournament.
This is incorrect, because MK field-clears for Snake. If MK is gone, Snake will do worse for tournament wins.
 

ShadowLink84

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
9,007
Location
Middle of nowhere. Myrtle Beach
Its even cooler how you don't understand the use of the universal "you".
I think its cooler how you lack proper english.
you=singular
you people=universal.

I'm pretty sure i said MK's use ONLY those three moves, and no other moves whatsoever, didn't I? Oh wait, no i didn't.
You can't win with metaknight if you DON'T use those moves. that doesn't mean you don't use other moves as well, genius. I defy anyone to try and win against someone of equal skill without d-smashing, f-air, or glide-attack.
It can be done.
Fsmash kills, shuttle loop kills. MK has plenty of other tools if he suddenly lost those three moves.

If you keep gliding you'll get fsmashed by anyone who isn't brain dead. If you get in the way of a Metaknight after up b, unless he's ******** he will glide attack, period. there's nothing else to do. if you keep gliding, you will get punished.
So if I glide attack past you, you'll run up behind me and Fsmash me?

last i saw, only Captain Falcon and Sonic could perform such an act consistently and this is solved by going off stage and grabbing the ledge.

I shuttle loop I don't have to glide attack. I can glide attack whenever I feel I ams afe. I won't glide attack you because of your Fsmash. I glide attack without getting close to cancel my landing lag or glide past you.

The glide attack fails as an offensive option.

there's no character than can readily deal with his aerial zoning game. except possibly MK. brawl is an aerial game in general, over half the characters in the game have terrible ground games. and gw's is above average. and his finishers are retardedly strong such that you dont even have to build much damage to get kills.
Toon Link and Link are both characters that can deal with aerial zoning rather effectively.
A number of characters can deal with aerial zoning well not just MK.

Good MK's will win most tournaments, because he's the best character. That makes sense. When you ban MK, good Snakes will win every tournament.
Wrong.
unlike MK Snake has worse matchups overall and has exploitable weaknesses.
I highly doubt he would be the best in the game just because there are characters better than him overall.
he won't win every tournament, hell MK doesn't win every tournament.
So why would a much more flawed character win as much?


you can not, i repeat, can not win with MK (against good players) if you don't use d-smash, and fair, and glide attack.
I forgot to point out something, if this is true for M then the same can be said for every other character.

shield counters f-tilt. you'll only get hit by it if you make a mistake or misjudge the range.
dair is a problem but it doesn't win matches for MK. tornado is little more than a nuisance and most characters have an answer for it.
Lets completely forget that the Ftilt is rather afast and good for zoning. Or that he has his Dtilt which is faster and has greater range than the majority of grund mvoe sout there and is faster too.
big deal all the characters have an answer to the tornado. However, you must acknowledge the circumstances regarding those answers.
 

RDK

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
6,390
LOL omg I **** my pants when I saw that.

TheOneJanitor, all of your arguments are ridiculous and are basically a thinly veiled blanket statement mixed with a horrible slippery slope. I'm not even for the ban, but assuming Snake will suddenly dominate tournaments as soon as MK is banned is not only ridiculous, but also ignores the statistics. One of Snake's fortes at the moment is that he's a good matchup against MK. What happens when MK gets banned?

And picking apart a character's moves and saying he wouldn't be as good without __, __, and __ is just stupid. You can do that with any character. Your argument is hypothetical and has nothing to do with anything.
 

salaboB

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Messages
2,136
And picking apart a character's moves and saying he wouldn't be as good without __, __, and __ is just stupid. You can do that with any character. Your argument is hypothetical and has nothing to do with anything.
Hey, if you take away Snake's utilt, ftilt, and C4 he would still be as good!

Right? Right?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom