Should Metaknight be Banned? **Take 2** (Post-podcast)

[da K.I.D.]

hed still be better than link

 

[dingding]

link is top tier..

 

[cutter]

While it is true the IC's don't have the best grab range in the game, being grabbed three times in a match is not unrealistic, even with these characters. 3 grabs, 3 stocks, game.

The forward throw IC grab is not that hard. It took me about 2 - 3 days to get the timing down on various characters. Try it; really isn't overwhelmingly difficult.

You must also not fight a lot of good IC's. Do you no how hard it is to separate these two? I play Melee_1, one of, if not the best, IC's in the nation on a weekly basis, and he constantly saves Nana left and right.

I'll give you the argument on D3, it's super easy, and usually results in a stock. But nagging and *****ing about a an infinite I have on 5 characters compared to what the IC's have on the ENTIRE roster makes no sense.

By your logic, it doesn't matter that the IC's have this infinite since it's hard to perform.

Therefore, a mastered broken tactic = justifiable since it's not an easy feat.

No.

In response to this I dug up this quote from Hylian:

Also, if people will main IC's to infinite every character...THEN WHY AREN'T THEY? Did you know I am the only IC play to even place top 5 in a brawl tournament? AND I ONLY USED THEM 5 MATCHES THE ENTIRE TOURNAMENT. Maybe it's because, despite the IC's having an infinite grab, they are VERY hard to use and their are many ways to beat them. If this technique was broken then you would see IC players EVERYWHERE. WINNING everything. But you don't. Because it's not broken.

Yeah I know it was back in May but the point remains: Even if the ICs can chaingrab every character they are not god tier nor do they dominate tournaments.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i have to agree...

 

[itsthebigfoot]

foursaken, I played melee1 when i went out to dallas, it wasn't hard to gimp the nana once i knew that i should gimp nana

he still one cause i had no clue what to do against IC's in general (first time playing em, brawl and melee included), but gimping nana is still not that hard, especially when you fake gimping nana and knock the human player across the screen cause they're trying to save nana

 

[Daimonster]

good luck oneing in the future.

 

[pyrnight]

bananas are broken lets ban diddy

winning is broken lets ban m2k




if we ban everybody but MK our problem will be solved.

 

[Atomsk_92]

no because m2k would still win XD

 

[XienZo]

Lets ban bans.

 

[brinboy789]

Lets ban bans.

captain falcon approves

YES

 

[Nic64]

what if we banned every character but captain falcon?

 

[bobson]

isnt there some kind of super grab break where if you hit A the frame you get grabbed, you automatically break out of the grab?

if so that is minimal interaction

That only works when you can react. If you're in the middle of a chaingrab or an infinite, you're still screwed until it ends.

 

[aeghrur]

what if we banned every character but captain falcon?

This game would then be too manly and epic to be played.

 

[St. Viers]

hmm...well ganon has an infinite (kinda) gotta ban him

G&W is too hard, gotta ban him

Peach uses item-like projectiles. gotta ban her. Same with Diddy

MK is broken. gotta ban him

DDD has an infinte on some chars, and is gay. ban him

pika makes fox unviable. gotta ban pika.

Azen uses Lucario, so lucario must be broken. ban

marth is too good if MK is banned. so ban

KDJ uses shiek, so sheik must be broken. ban.

IC have infinate grab on EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!! ban

falcon is too manly. ban

 

[Remzi]

no because m2k would still win XD

Your sig... change it.

I die a little inside every time you post.

 

[rehab]

Get that childish hyperbole outta here

 

[dingding]

bann diddy not mk..

 

[ShadowLink84]

Can someone who has played fighting games other than Smash explain the situations of characters in other games and why they were banned, then show the similar links and see what MK has in common in that criteria.

Its been mentioned repetedly.

magic the gathering: Ravager decks banned. Tooth and nail decks could beat it though.
Street Fighter 2: Akuma is banned (most extreme deck)
Yu-Gi-Oh: Number of +1 cards are banned.

in each case it was due to overcentralizing as well as stagnation of the metagame.
Not due to them being beatable.

Akuma was the most extreme case for a fighting game.

In several other games characters have been banned but that is due ot them not being typically available (ex and gold character in GG) or console exclusive (link, Spawn, heihachi from SC2).

 

[adumbrodeus]

Essentially, your using a tactic that takes your opponents controller out of their hands. When grabbed by a good pair of IC's, it's a stock. The " don't get grabbed " argument is so fallacious. It is impossible to not get grabbed in any one match, factoring in human error. IC's are in essence what DDD is if he had a moving wall next to him the entire match, AND having a chaingrab on every single character in the roster. Not only that, but it ends in either a spike or smash attack.

It's not impossible to not get grabbed, but highly unlikely. It's like saying CF can beat MK if all he uses is Falcon PAUNCH!!1.

I dunno, I've done it plenty of times with my Marth.

I rarely manage to grab Warios with my Ganondorf.

Etc.


ICs, even with the infinite, just aren't particularly good because their grab range sucks. For that reason they rarely get the infinite off in a lot of match-ups. The ones that they can reliably get the infinite off (or being outside infinite range puts the opponent at a disadvantage) are where their advantages lie.


So, in a lot of match-ups, don't get grabbed is PERFECTLY REASONABLE. Actually, there's a lot more complaints about DDD's infinite because his insane grab range makes not getting grabbed pretty much impossible.

While it is true the IC's don't have the best grab range in the game, being grabbed three times in a match is not unrealistic, even with these characters. 3 grabs, 3 stocks, game.

The forward throw IC grab is not that hard. It took me about 2 - 3 days to get the timing down on various characters. Try it; really isn't overwhelmingly difficult.

You must also not fight a lot of good IC's. Do you no how hard it is to separate these two? I play Melee_1, one of, if not the best, IC's in the nation on a weekly basis, and he constantly saves Nana left and right.

I'll give you the argument on D3, it's super easy, and usually results in a stock. But nagging and *****ing about a an infinite I have on 5 characters compared to what the IC's have on the ENTIRE roster makes no sense.

By your logic, it doesn't matter that the IC's have this infinite since it's hard to perform.

Therefore, a mastered broken tactic = justifiable since it's not an easy feat.

No.

Yeah, it IS unreasistic against A LOT of characters.

You get 3 grabs off a Marth or a MK or a Wario with ICs and either you both suck (you both have bad spacing skills) or you're a LOT better then your opponent.

I'm sorry, but their sucky grab range makes them grabbing a lot of characters VERY unlikely.

You're right about technical difficult not mattering, but practicality IS a major factor.

 

[Panix]

Lets not ban MK because of his overpoweredness. Lets ban people who should not be in brawl and are overpowered and shouldn't be.

So my votes for banns are...

King 3D - a animal with a hammer......
Game&watch - dude doesn't even have 3 diementions (spell check) lol
R.O.B - A robot who throws tops.

those three should be banned. now metaknight, looks the part. has the right name. and he's from dream land. obviously anyone who comes from a dream can do whatever he wants.

case closed.

 

[Atomsk_92]

Your sig... change it.

I die a little inside every time you post.

lame....but no

Luckystar is amazing

 

[Remzi]

lame....but no

Luckystar is amazing

worth a try >_>

 

[NeoCrono]

Lets not ban MK because of his overpoweredness. Lets ban people who should not be in brawl and are overpowered and shouldn't be.

So my votes for banns are...

King 3D - a animal with a hammer......
Game&watch - dude doesn't even have 3 diementions (spell check) lol
R.O.B - A robot who throws tops.

those three should be banned. now metaknight, looks the part. has the right name. and he's from dream land. obviously anyone who comes from a dream can do whatever he wants.

case closed.

ummmm, MK is not banned.... you should read the first page.....
you want D3, R.O.B, and Game & watch banned. If so, please put in detail why they should be banned. So until you can think of why they should be please do not post here again.....
Edit: Gheb is sexy

 

[Mmac]

I heard that Algol was banned in SCIV. Can anyone confirm this?

I only heard, I just want to know if it's true or not

 

[ShadowLink84]

I heard that Algol was banned in SCIV. Can anyone confirm this?

I only heard, I just want to know if it's true or not

Its being contemplated.

The reason I say that instead of Algol=banned is because there is a good amount of controversy and there have been tournaments where he has been banned. i think one or two were national tournaments. Not too sure exactly I'll look into it if you want but I don't really like SC.

 

[Flayl]

ummmm, MK is not banned.... you should read the first page.....
you want D3, R.O.B, and Game & watch banned. If so, please put in detail why they should be banned. So until you can think of why they should be please do not post here again.....
Edit: Gheb is sexy

Quit the smash debate group

 

[NeoCrono]

Quit the smash debate group

Fine, if you say so

 

[RDK]

What people aren't getting is just how big a ban is if it were to happen, even to MK. Once a character is banned, there's pretty much no going back.

The fact is that the majority of you pro-ban people are just lazy, and don't want to actually put in the effort or time to come up with a good strategy against decent MK's.

And no, Algol is not banned. It's being debated at best.

 

[Mmac]

And no, Algol is not banned. It's being debated at best.

So Algol is in the exact same boat as MetaKnight....
Kinda Ironic.... don't you think?

 

[Remzi]

What people aren't getting is just how big a ban is if it were to happen, even to MK. Once a character is banned, there's pretty much no going back.

The fact is that the majority of you pro-ban people are just lazy, and don't want to actually put in the effort or time to come up with a good strategy against decent MK's.

And no, Algol is not banned. It's being debated at best.

I'm proban, we've been actively trying to find counter strategies against MK since August when it became clear that he was the best character. And we're getting tired of his dominance. His lack of weaknesses to exploit leaves little to no room for a counter to develop.

 

[RDK]

I'm proban, we've been actively trying to find counter strategies against MK since August when it became clear that he was the best character. And we're getting tired of his dominance. His lack of weaknesses to exploit leaves little to no room for a counter to develop.

Whoever said you needed a counter? Even or close-to-even matchups exist for him. All you need to do is utilize them.

 

[ShadowLink84]

What people aren't getting is just how big a ban is if it were to happen, even to MK. Once a character is banned, there's pretty much no going back.

The fact is that the majority of you pro-ban people are just lazy, and don't want to actually put in the effort or time to come up with a good strategy against decent MK's.

And no, Algol is not banned. It's being debated at best.

The majority of people who are pro-life calls it murder.
The majority of people against homosexuality often say because its wrong to god.
The majority of people have no ****ing clue what they are talking about.

So why do you and several other people continue addressing STUPID reasoning? -_-

Address what's been said thats actually logical. It lets you get to the meat of things.

 

[RDK]

The majority of people who are pro-life calls it murder.
The majority of people against homosexuality often say because its wrong to god.
The majority of people have no ****ing clue what they are talking about.

So why do you and several other people continue addressing STUPID reasoning? -_-

Address what's been said thats actually logical. It lets you get to the meat of things.

I'm appalled that you would even compare my reasoning to that of anti-gays or abortionists, but nevertheless, it really doesn't matter because I haven't heard one single rational argument for MK's banning. Perhaps you could supply me with one.

 

[Inui]

Lets not ban MK because of his overpoweredness. Lets ban people who should not be in brawl and are overpowered and shouldn't be.

So my votes for banns are...

King 3D - a animal with a hammer......
Game&watch - dude doesn't even have 3 diementions (spell check) lol
R.O.B - A robot who throws tops.

those three should be banned. now metaknight, looks the part. has the right name. and he's from dream land. obviously anyone who comes from a dream can do whatever he wants.

case closed.

King Dedede is from Dreamland.

 

[NeoCrono]

King Dedede is from Dreamland.

Thank you Inui
*high five*

 

[aeghrur]

Dreamland is the reason why brawl sucks. Cuz there's no dreamland in brawl.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I'm appalled that you would even compare my reasoning to that of anti-gays or abortionists, but nevertheless, it really doesn't matter because I haven't heard one single rational argument for MK's banning. Perhaps you could supply me with one.

I comparing the fact that you are stating that the most vocal peole are the ones who provide an accurate reasoning for their wanting to ban MK.

As for needing to point you in where a logical argument has been made. I cannot bother to do so because it has been made in this thread as well as the other one and they aren't as far and between as one would think.

That and I don't think it'll kill you either.

 

[bobson]

The majority of people who are pro-life calls it murder.

Is there a better term for ending the life of another human without their permission?

That's right, I'm dragging this thread down even further.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Is there a better term for ending the life of another human without their permission?

That's right, I'm dragging this thread down even further.

Is there a better term than STFU?

Naw just messing with you.

it isn't murder primarily because the fetus which will become human is not even self conscious. it has no intellect, no consciousness of self or other things. It cannot give out permission let alone that it is alive only because the mother permits it to be in her body.

 

[RDK]

Is there a better term than STFU?

Naw just messing with you.

it isn't murder primarily because the fetus which will become human is not even self conscious. it has no intellect, no consciousness of self or other things. It cannot give out permission let alone that it is alive only because the mother permits it to be in her body.

Small correction; the fetus is human, just not a human being. It's just as human as the skin cells on my arm are human.