Should Metaknight be Banned? **Take 2** (Post-podcast)

[arch knight]

ok this thread clearly is getting out of hand.. however i cant lock it and the mods dont really seem to care about this subject anyway. even though the banning of mk has been resolved.


GHEB IS 100% DROP DEAD SEXY

 

[_Phloat_]

The debate hasn't been resolved. There is an official decision, but people will always want to discuss it. This is why the thread is here, don't expect too much progress to be made, but it is here to absorb the spam that was here before this thread, and to some extent still exists.

Make sense arch knight?

 

[arch knight]

yea true but most view it as resolved so yeah it could be done with now its just becoming a spam thread now

 

[dingding]

lol this thread is a bit spammy..

 

[adumbrodeus]

So folks pro-ban folks, any progress on the ban criteria?

Catholics are evil mother****ers!

<_<

they sho nuff are.

im usually a very open minded person, and i usually dont like to hate on other peoples beliefs since mine are in teh vast minority

but catholicism is like, the dumbest religion ive ever seen...

Well obviously we are evil, mwahaha!


But seriously, why you guys hating on Catholicism? We've got one of the longest histories of support for open debate of any group and our dogma is also very internally consistent.

We're also one of the few religions to openly come out in support of separation of church and state and we're very explicit in condemning violence against any group.


But our crazies get a lot of press and historically leadership had some issues with things like "love thy neighbor", but I fail to see how certain people's failure to live up to the church's ideals is a commentary on the church itself.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Well obviously we are evil, mwahaha!


But seriously, why you guys hating on Catholicism? We've got one of the longest histories of support for open debate of any group and our dogma is also very internally consistent.

We're also one of the few religions to openly come out in support of separation of church and state and we're very explicit in condemning violence against any group.


But our crazies get a lot of press and historically leadership had some issues with things like "love thy neighbor", but I fail to see how certain people's failure to live up to the church's ideals is a commentary on the church itself.

I wasn't serious dude. I am a catholic.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i was serious

a few things...

this is a serious question.
were those priests that ***** little kids catholic
and wasnt the catholic church the one that started letting gay people in it despite the words clearly written in the bible?

now for things i really know
holy water. WTF is with that. so a priest says so and now this water can kill demons? so its regular water until a priest says a prayer and now its special. thats dumb.
the pope. WTF
so you are telling me that normal humans, vote for normal humans, to be closer to God than the rest of us normal humans? that doesnt make any GD sense

 

[Inui]

I noticed that unknown/bad players put a lot of effort into debating the game in this thread and are pretty darn good at it while the famous/top players are pretty lazy about it.

 

[NeoCrono]

Us bad players have to take time and effort in our arguments to win over people, when all the pros can just say we are all scrubs lol

 

[adumbrodeus]

I wasn't serious dude. I am a catholic.

I was more responding to da KID, I figured you were joking.

i was serious

a few things...

this is a serious question.
were those priests that ***** little kids catholic

Which incident do you mean? The sad truth is that little kids being ***** is common enough that you can point to multiple instances guilt by any group except really small ones, and not just religions.

Really the major issue with the priests that did it was Bishops covering it up, but again, people failing to live up to the ideals of a religion are the failure of the person.

and wasnt the catholic church the one that started letting gay people in it despite the words clearly written in the bible?

Where? I don't remember anything in the Bible restricting gay people from anything.

The Bible specifies certain ACTIONS as sins, not states of being. EVER.

now for things i really know
holy water. WTF is with that. so a priest says so and now this water can kill demons? so its regular water until a priest says a prayer and now its special. thats dumb.

It's a sacramental, holy water holds no inherent value, but is an outward sign, instituted by God, to give grace.

You want the tradition, it goes back to John the Baptist.

And no, demons can't be killed, they're spiritual beings.

the pope. WTF
so you are telling me that normal humans, vote for normal humans, to be closer to God than the rest of us normal humans? that doesnt make any GD sense

Inherently, humans acceptance of grace via free will allows them to be closer to God, but that's not what the pope is at all.

The pope is the successor of St. Peter, and derives no special "closeness" with God via that privilege.


I seriously think that you don't understand Catholic theology at all, so before you accuse Catholicism of anything, just ask me. Rather then clutter the thread, let's take this to PMs however.

I noticed that unknown/bad players put a lot of effort into debating the game in this thread and are pretty darn good at it while the famous/top players are pretty lazy about it.

Some people are just better at understanding then application.

*shrugs*

It happens.

 

[ShadowLink84]

i

a few things...

this is a serious question.
were those priests that ***** little kids catholic

What?
Dude that isn't something that is the result of the religion, that's the result of a stupids ystem.

and wasnt the catholic church the one that started letting gay people in it despite the words clearly written in the bible?

Really? Clearly you say?
Leviticus: if a man sleeps with another man as he does with a woman, they shall be put to death.

This "clear" psalm can be interpreted in several was.
The best one being that it does not condemn homosexuality.
The word homosexuality does not exist at the time so how they viewed homosexuals as we do was entirely different.
The "sleeping with a man as he does with a woman" part refer to sodomy of another man.

homosexuality as view it is
a sexual preference.

Acts 15 john: He who knows love, knows God. For God is love and he who does not know love does not know God.

So if a man and another man want to be together and it is because they love each other truly, it is endorsed.
Same for heterosexual couples.

Mind you I game the gist of things its not the exact psalm. I can dig them up if you want.

 

[HeroMystic]

Us bad players have to take time and effort in our arguments to win over people, when all the pros can just say we are all scrubs lol

Lol, I'm surprised this wasn't found out a thousand pages ago.

 

[da K.I.D.]

@ SL
my stance on homosexualitly is taken from first corinthians 6:9
love can be interpreted many different ways. the bible says love your enemies as your brothers but that doesnt mean you should go inviting a guy that wants you dead over for dinner.
and as for love.
i love sonic
i love steak. (i actually really do love eating it)
i love my mother
i love my sisters
i love video games
i loved my ex girlfriend
all of these are different forms of love,
i can understand how gay people feel, i have a lot of gay and lesbian friends but that doesnt mean i should condone the things that they do.

@adum
if the pope isnt special what does he do?

and im going to have to do some research on the holy water thing.

 

[ShadowLink84]

@ SL
my stance on homosexualitly is taken from first tcorinthians 6:9

Corinthians...
sigh...

I CORINTHIANS 6:9-10 reads:

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

I placed two words in brackets. The first one, "malakoi", Scroggs (p. 14) says "literally means 'soft' and is no technical term for a homosexual." It apparently refers to young boys who would take the "recepient" position in anal sex, often for money. It's also translated in some Bibles as "morally weak".

"Aresenokoitai", on the other hand, is clearly a sexual term but, according to Scroggs:

Since... the New Testament occurrences are the earliest appearances of the word, it is not easy for us to be sure what it means. John Boswell in his recent study denies that it refers to a homosexual person in general but rather specifically to the male prostitute who could serve heterosexual or homosexual clients. At any rate, the sin is prostitution, not homosexuality in itself. (p. 14)

These words are the words used both in Corinthians and in I Timothy 1:10 which are commonly translated into modern bibles as "homosexual", "effeminate," and "self-indulgent." In these enlightened times, however,there is no indication that such terms are in any way connected to homosexuality in itself.

In fact, according to Is the Homosexual my Neighbor by Letha Scanzoni and Virginia Ramey Mollenkott:

the idea of a lifelong homosexual orientation or "condition" is never mentioned in the Bible... Bible writers assumed that everyone was heterosexual and that in times of moral decay, some heterosexuals peopled did some strange and unnatural things with each other. Since the Bible is silent about the homosexual condition, those who want to understand it must rely on the findings of modern behavorial science research... (p. 71)

In summary, despite common interpretations of the words "malakoi" and "aresenokoitai" in modern times, there is no clear evidence which links them unquestionably to homosexuality in itself. Instead, in every case in which they are used, there is an implied connection with either prostitution or child molestation. Modern research shows us, however, that such connections are fallacious. There is no research which clearly demonstrates that there is any correlation between homosexuality and the "sins" referenced alongside it in Corinthians and Timothy.


tl;dr: Corinthians discusses prostitution not homosexuality.

 

[Inui]

Wow... God bless ShadowLink84.

We need to be friends.

 

[aeghrur]

Inui, are you catholic too then?
and you also support gay marriage?

 

[Justblaze647]

Stuff

Wow...

*Nominates for post of the year*

 

[ShadowLink84]

XD that was a copy and paste. if you want I'll bring in my actual wall of text and it will address everything from leviticus, to acts 15. It does alot


@inui: XD you have my msn

 

[da K.I.D.]

im upset with you for the sole reason that we are having a serious discussion but yet you think that i wont read/understand the whole thing and feel the need to simplify your words with a tl;dr

anyway, some questions.
what bible do you use.
ive never heard of scroggs. what is that?
where can i find this book you were using to explain your thoughts?

 

[ShadowLink84]

im upset with you for the sole reason that we are having a serious discussion but yet you think that i wont read/understand the whole thing and feel the need to simplify your words with a tl;dr

Don't presume things kid.
The tl;dr was to basically make something short for anyone who didn't want to read the entire thing or only read part of it.

It was not directed to your specifically.

anyway, some questions.
what bible do you use.
ive never heard of scroggs. what is that?
where can i find this book you were using to explain your thoughts?

Scroog is a random website I sometimes refer to, just type corinthians 6:9 in your address bar.
his only discusses corinthians but not leviticus, romans, acts 15 and several other texts.

As for the bible I use, I recommend the New International Version.
King John version irks me at times.

 

[aeghrur]

Lol, King John's version is pretty hilarious at times.
So, SL, you should totally go to the Debate hall and debate over rather god exists or not.



Edit: King John's? James's? One of those is funny, I know it. Just forgot which one, lol. Ah crap, lol.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i thought the one a lot of people had was king JAMES...

any way im confused because by the definition of the 2 words that you gave me, they seem to be the same, and its odd that the scripture would state what is by your logic, the same offence twice in a row.

 

[The 5th Horseman]

How did this thread come to talk about the bible and gay marriage?

 

[HeroMystic]

Metaknight supports gay marriage.

 

[aeghrur]

Metaknight supports gay marriage.

Only because we all know Metaknight is gay.

 

[adumbrodeus]

@ SL
my stance on homosexualitly is taken from first corinthians 6:9

Check the Greek on that.

@adum
if the pope isnt special what does he do?

He IS special, but not in that way. No office in the church inherently confers special closeness to God, closeness to God is based on Grace.

He's a leader and there are certain theological guarantees attached to the office itself, but the understanding that the Pope shares a special closeness with God is incorrect and a misunderstanding of Catholic theology.

and im going to have to do some research on the holy water thing.

You'd be much better off just asking me, I have a theological teaching certification and most people who talk about Church theology simply do not know anything about it. Especially protestant sources.

If you insist on doing your own research, at least do it from a Catholic source, Catholic Encyclopedia is a good source.

Inui, are you catholic too then?
and you also support gay marriage?

Catholics SHOULD support the legalization of Gay marriage, unless a reasonable non-religious argument has been put forth (which to my experience, hasn't occured).

As I pointed out, the Church endorses seperation of Church and State. Implicitly and dogmatically in Lumen Gentium, and explicitly in Deus Caritas est.


My personal opinions on homosexuality, you'll find they're very similar to ShadowLink's, but that's not the Church's official viewpoint so it wouldn't be proper for me to present it as the Church's view.

anyway, some questions.
what bible do you use.
ive never heard of scroggs. what is that?
where can i find this book you were using to explain your thoughts?

As for the bible I use, I recommend the New International Version.
King John version irks me at times.

As a general suggestion for both of you, generally the best version to refer to is the original Greek/Aramaic and Hebrew.

http://www.greekbible.com/index.php for example, barring that (it's complicated to read if you aren't schooled in classical Greek), reading multiple versions is VERY helpful, my main copy is Douay Rheims, and I do recommend it, though there ARE some translation errors even in that which I can point out ("abomination" being used sometimes and "unclean" other times even though they're the same word in hebrew). As another example of errors in a bible version, KJV has the seven mountains of revelations translated as seven hills.


Yeah, so best method of Bible study is do A LOT of research.

i thought the one a lot of people had was king JAMES...

any way im confused because by the definition of the 2 words that you gave me, they seem to be the same, and its odd that the scripture would state what is by your logic, the same offence twice in a row.

Genesis has 2 different creation stories in a row.

*shrugs*

Most likely they were slightly different types of prostitution, but with both words becoming prostitution in English it becomes redundant.

Wow... God bless ShadowLink84.

We need to be friends.

Support for gay rights is your prime qualification for your friendship?

Cool, props for your activism.

 

[da K.I.D.]

How did this thread come to talk about the bible and gay marriage?

we just try to derail the thread as much as possible onto as many random tangents as we can so we can see if adumbrodeus can explain whatever it is we are talkign about.

and so far it seems like the dude IS God, hes knows freaking everything...

 

[CR4SH]

Metaknight supports gay marriage.

Not true, mk doesn't support equality. In any field.

I'm suprised at the difference in the voting, from 45-55 to 60-40. Thats interesting.

 

[HeroMystic]

Metaknight supports gay marriage but not regular marriage.

 

[da K.I.D.]

As a general suggestion for both of you, generally the best version to refer to is the original Greek/Aramaic and Hebrew.

http://www.greekbible.com/index.php for example, barring that (it's complicated to read if you aren't schooled in classical Greek), reading multiple versions is VERY helpful, my main copy is Douay Rheims, and I do recommend it, though there ARE some translation errors even in that which I can point out ("abomination" being used sometimes and "unclean" other times even though they're the same word in hebrew). As another example of errors in a bible version, KJV has the seven mountains of revelations translated as seven hills.

ive been told that the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures is the most accurate "non-original language" bible out there. and based on that, you should be able to determine what faith i am


Genesis has 2 different creation stories in a row.

*shrugs*

what do you mean by this...

Most likely they were slightly different types of prostitution, but with both words becoming prostitution in English it becomes redundant.

possibly but im still not convinced.

 

[The 5th Horseman]

we just try to derail the thread as much as possible onto as many random tangents as we can so we can see if adumbrodeus can explain whatever it is we are talkign about.

and so far it seems like the dude IS God, hes knows freaking everything...

^Lol

Well, it does make the topic of banning MK more interesting.

 

[ShadowLink84]

i thought the one a lot of people had was king JAMES...

any way im confused because by the definition of the 2 words that you gave me, they seem to be the same, and its odd that the scripture would state what is by your logic, the same offence twice in a row.

They appear to be the same but they aren't, similar to gay and lesbian.

You going to bum's weekly?

 

[adumbrodeus]

we just try to derail the thread as much as possible onto as many random tangents as we can so we can see if adumbrodeus can explain whatever it is we are talkign about.

and so far it seems like the dude IS God, hes knows freaking everything...

Lol, not everything.

I don't dance for example...

...
...

Ok I lied, I know Popping, Locking, Breaking, Tutting, Breaking, a couple of random Ballroom styles, Lion Dancing, and a few other random cultural styles.

edit: I'll leave it to you guys to find something that I don't know about, but... fun thing is, one of my best skills is research, I'm great at finding out about and understanding things I don't know about. Most of the stuff I know about came up in some sort of discussion and I researched it.

ive been told that the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures is the most accurate "non-original language" bible out there. and based on that, you should be able to determine what faith i am

Jehovah's witness obviously.

Regardless, the "most accurate non-original" is not the same as the original.

We do the best that we can but translation always has it's pitfalls so unfortunately, "best translated" doesn't mean much when it comes to really fine details.

what do you mean by this...

Genesis 1 and 2 (verse 4 and beyond) are in fact two different creation stories, both explain the creation of existence.

4 This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven.

5 Now there was as yet no bush of the field found in the earth and no vegetation of the field was as yet sprouting, because Jehovah God had not made it rain upon the earth and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6 But a mist would go up from the earth and it watered the entire surface of the ground.

Your version doesn't break it up as nicely as the versions I'm used to, but there's an explicit break between the two creation stories.


edit:

^Lol

Well, it does make the topic of banning MK more interesting.

Lol, I try.

 

[da K.I.D.]

They appear to be the same but they aren't, similar to gay and lesbian.

You going to bum's weekly?

common son dont be dumb.
you know where i live...

and from now on, i am making it my sole duty to derail this thread onto a topic that adum knows nothing about (or at least less than me...)
but i dont understand how its 2 different stories as opposed to just a retelling of the same story...

either way adum dont answer this now, ill pm you later. im tired and ive already stayed up too long waiting for you and SL just to respond to my posts

 

[ShadowLink84]

its going to be 3 am but i can't sleep yet. Not til my conversion finishes.

@ki: So you're coming down then. Excellent.

 

[theONEjanitor]

i just cant fathom that anyone who plays this game with any sort of seriousness would want to ban the character. he's seriously not that bad.

i can understand if you play the game every once in a while and don't go to many tournaments, because i, myself, used to think MK broke the game. But I played more. and went to more tournaments. and i realized he's not that bad, he just requires a shift in your playstyle, just like jigglypuff or peach did in melee.

metaknights gameplay is very simplistic and predictable, and he's also one of the lightest characters in the game. there are several characters in the game that go pretty much even with metaknight.

also, there are several characters who are just as overpowered as metaknight, just as mr. game and watch. if MK is banned, then mr. g&w should be as well. and thusly goes the slippery slope.

 

[ShadowLink84]

1.Player skill is not fctored into the debate. Those who believe MK is WOMG broken usually aren't intelligent enough to provide good reasoning. In short, stop addressing stupid people.

2. Name these characters that are definitely nuetral. MK is simplistic, not predictable though.

3. No there aren't and the slippery slope arguments was killed ages ago.

4.You're no necromancer =p

 

[da K.I.D.]

i just cant fathom that anyone who plays this game with any sort of seriousness would want to ban the character. he's seriously not that bad.

i can understand if you play the game every once in a while and don't go to many tournaments, because i, myself, used to think MK broke the game. But I played more. and went to more tournaments. and i realized he's not that bad, he just requires a shift in your playstyle, just like jigglypuff or peach did in melee.

metaknights gameplay is very simplistic and predictable, and he's also one of the lightest characters in the game. there are several characters in the game that go pretty much even with metaknight.

also, there are several characters who are just as overpowered as metaknight, just as mr. game and watch. if MK is banned, then mr. g&w should be as well. and thusly goes the slippery slope.

wow, now i know why we started talking about gays and abortion and the bible

crap like the above is getting old as all hell
@SL ura douche...

 

[ShadowLink84]

I know so you're going yes? I will have steak.
Unless I am exhausted which i probably will be

 

[Inui]

Inui, are you catholic too then?
and you also support gay marriage?

Yes and yes.

ShadowLink, next time I host a large tournament, you are skipping school or work or whatever and coming to it for the whole day. Come Friday night and I'll house you at the hotel for free.