Should Metaknight be Banned? **Take 2** (Post-podcast)

[Ulevo]

Why the hell is this thread still going? Really? The only productive posts being made are talking about how Gheb is sexy, and that's not really productive, because we already all know how Gheb is sexy, so it's redundant.

 

[Zankoku]

Gheb is sexy?

 

[Ulevo]

Gheb is sexy?

You haven't heard the news Ankoku?

 

[kirbstir]

By your description, most TOs don't have backbone. Some can barely run a tournament but I commend them for getting smashers together.

That's putting words in my mouth, I'd appreciate it if you'd stop doing that.

You keep assuming I'm only going off of what Lee is saying. He is not my connection to what goes on in there, he is simply the one that spoke out so I can go off it because it's public information.

Fair enough

*sigh* you really don't see where I'm coming from. I don't care about Metaknight's non-ban. I don't give a **** about Lee. I just care about how this vote was made and the process behind it.

The only question I found in your last post:

My question is simply why certain Brawl elites that have proven to be knowledgeable and respectful aren't part of the vote and why inactive members are.

You were questioning why certain people were allowed to vote while others were not, not "how this vote was made and the process behind it" so please do not assume I missed something that was never mentioned in the first place.

But, fair enough, as I said in my previous post, the vote as a poll after weeks of deliberation on matter. There's how the vote was made, and the process behind it. If you meant to ask something else, please clarify without making assumptions about my reading comprehension, although you're fair to chastise my inability to read your mind if you wish.

I've also gotta ask, if you already have a source in there, why haven't you pegged him for this answer?

I can dig up stuff if you want but the most obvious and easiest place to see it is in the weekly character discussion. A lot of the information is wrong and some of it is just spam.

Most of it is spam. This has nothing to do with the MK vote, however, and I've explained this in my previous.

lol no I don't. You obviously don't read well. I never said all of SBR was stupid.

I don't make claims about your reading comprehension; do not make assumptions about mine. I also never said you claimed all in the SBR was stupid, please stop putting words in my mouth.

Nah that's public information. I follow tournament results pretty closely. I'm avoiding naming names for a few reasons but if you need a list of people that are definitely not going to tournaments (pending evidence to the contrary from these members but I doubt they have any).

And in all this mess, you've ignored the fact that this does not matter in the end, because it was basically hard-evidence vs ideology and emotion.

Again, you'd be kidding yourself if you think I'm going off a few lines of what Lee said. I'm going off what I've seen myself from SBR members posting as well as a few connections which shouldn't really be mentioned.

If you can't name your source, why should you chastise anybody for not believing you?

 

[cutter]

Here's a question for people who don't want Meta banned:

Would you ban infinites? It seems like there are a lot of people who don't want MK banned but they'll easily say yes to something like banning D3's infinites.

 

[Master Raven]

Here's a question for people who don't want Meta banned:

Would you ban infinites? It seems like there are a lot of people who don't want MK banned but they'll easily say yes to something like banning D3's infinites.

Except for IC's, yes, I'd want them banned.

 

[brinboy789]

Here's a question for people who don't want Meta banned:

Would you ban infinites? It seems like there are a lot of people who don't want MK banned but they'll easily say yes to something like banning D3's infinites.

meta is already no banned. infinite is still debated.

no D3 infinite. IC's yea because IC have crap grab range and hard to do AND nana has to be present

 

[rehab]

Here's a question for people who don't want Meta banned:

Would you ban infinites? It seems like there are a lot of people who don't want MK banned but they'll easily say yes to something like banning D3's infinites.

Are you the other way around?

 

[Master Raven]

its your fault you got grabbed.

I hate this argument. In that case we shouldn't even be discussing about MK's impact on the metagame and simply work on not getting hit by him.

 

[brinboy789]

*ignore this post

 

[Master Raven]

Come play a good DDD and come back and tell me not getting grabbed is so simple. I shouldn't have to switch characters because of some stupid infinite that shouldn't even be there and doesn't even make sense (LUIGI?!) in the first place.

 

[brinboy789]

Come play a good DDD and come back and tell me not getting grabbed is so simple.

yea true...yea i change my mind. D3 infinite should be banned, but not IC's

 

[cutter]

For those who are advocates on banning D3's infinites, please give me a good reason on why D3's infinites break the metagame in half.

 

[The Real Inferno]

For those who are advocates on banning D3's infinites, please give me a good reason on why D3's infinites breaks the metagame in half.

Well, it makes Luigi, an otherwise pretty good and viable character, unplayable if anybody seconds Dedede. The same goes for Donkey Kong. Bowser is also rendered useless. Mario and Samus aren't very viable anyway, but for the others it's pretty bad. I'm not saying the infinite should be banned but these are things that are used in the argument.

 

[brinboy789]

For those who are advocates on banning D3's infinites, please give me a good reason on why D3's infinites break the metagame in half.

like infernorage said, it makes 8 chars unviable for tourney play due to onegrab = one stock. its also ridiculously easy to pull off, unlike the IC CG. it can be solved with CPing, but why should you be forced to change your char just to fight D3?

edit: also, this is the wrong thread. lol

 

[Foursaken]

D3 doesn't need infinites to beat Mario, Bowser, Luigi, Samus, and Donkey Kong. It just makes 60:40 /70:30 match ups that much easier.

I'm a D3 main and pro - ban, btw. But I do fully believe that any kind of inescapable grab, i.e. what the IC's can do, should be banned as well.

Essentially, your using a tactic that takes your opponents controller out of their hands. When grabbed by a good pair of IC's, it's a stock. The " don't get grabbed " argument is so fallacious. It is impossible to not get grabbed in any one match, factoring in human error. IC's are in essence what DDD is if he had a moving wall next to him the entire match, AND having a chaingrab on every single character in the roster. Not only that, but it ends in either a spike or smash attack.

It's not impossible to not get grabbed, but highly unlikely. It's like saying CF can beat MK if all he uses is Falcon PAUNCH!!1.

 

[cutter]

Well, it makes Luigi, an otherwise pretty good and viable character, unplayable if anybody seconds Dedede. The same goes for Donkey Kong. Bowser is also rendered useless. Mario and Samus aren't very viable anyway, but for the others it's pretty bad. I'm not saying the infinite should be banned but these are things that are used in the argument.

Like this is anything new? Hopeless matchups have existed in Melee and it's not surprising they're in Brawl.

If D3 had standing infinites on all characters then things would be different.

I'm not advocating "DONT GET GRABBED" because you will get grabbed by D3 eventually. Just play a different character that doesn't get infinited. There are PLENTY of characters.

IC's CGs shouldn't even be touched... if you get grabbed by them, too bad. Hell they can't even Wobble (which was never banned officially) and people still want their CGs banned. Good god.

 

[aeghrur]

ololol

never heard of that before

:monkey: :mushroom:

Meh, it was some restaurant near a hilton hotel. =/
It had good food. xD And the soup was delicious.
and it was pretty popular.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It makes a character unviable. Not like "having a nightmare match-up" but having no chance to be used in the first place, no matter how much better you are. Beat a random character with DK. All the opponent has to do is counter pick D3 afterwards and he wins by default to settle the score.

And no, MK doesn't work like this

@aeghur

Yea, we have tasty food XD

 

[brinboy789]

why should a top DK player like bum lose to a mediocre D3 player just because the D3 player knows the infinite? good thing for bum infinites are banned in NY.

 

[Master Raven]

why should a top DK player like bum lose to a mediocre D3 player just because the D3 player knows the infinite? good thing for bum infinites are banned in NY.

Here's a funny story to share: recently at a tourney in FL, Hungrybox got beat in round 1 by a DK player without using infinites. Next match he decides to use the infinite and he 3-stocked the DK player.

 

[cutter]

It makes a character unviable. Not like "having a nightmare match-up" but having no chance to be used in the first place, no matter how much better you are. Beat a random character with DK. All the opponent has to do is counter pick D3 afterwards and he wins by default to settle the score.

In Melee, if I somehow lost to a Ness I can just CP Sheik and I autowin.

Or in Brawl I CP Fox with Pika and autowin.

Speaking of Sheik, she made a lot of characters unviable, but nobody complained about her as badly as people whine about D3 today.

 

[brinboy789]

In Melee, if I somehow lost to a Ness I can just CP Sheik and I autowin.

Or in Brawl I CP Fox with Pika and autowin.

Speaking of Sheik, she made a lot of characters unviable, but nobody complained about her as badly as people whine about D3 today.

for link vs shiek, its not a technique. its a char. what can you do about it? lol

and for pika vs fox, it goes to 70% and then fox can escape. sorta like falcos CG on everybody. its not an infinite, and IS winnable. the D3 infinite on the other hand, actually has range (amazing range), is inescapable, ensuring one grab = one stock. and its on 8 chars

 

[cutter]

for link vs shiek, its not a technique. its a char. what can you do about it? lol

Did you even PLAY Melee? Sheik had a very nasty chaingrab on Link as well as several other characters.

WHY should we cater to certain characters to increase their viability while we leave others with hopeless matchups and left in the dark?

We didn't ban Sheik's chaingrab, so why ban D3's infinite?

and for pika vs fox, it goes to 70% and then fox can escape. sorta like falcos CG on everybody. its not an infinite, and IS winnable. the D3 infinite on the other hand, actually has range (amazing range), is inescapable, ensuring one grab = one stock. and its on 8 chars

Again, you fail to grasp the concept. You don't seem to realize that Pika/Fox isn't **** just because of the chaingrab, but Pika counters pretty everything Fox does. The chaingrab is basically rubbing salt in the wounds.

And technically, D3 vs. victims of infinites are winnable for the victims. They may be like 5:95 matchups, but you can't just say they'll NEVER win.

 

[Zankoku]

Sheik's chaingrabs can be DI'd and involve some form of interaction on both player's part, albeit minimal.

Dedede's infinite is down, grab, down, grab, down, grab, down. Meanwhile, it makes no difference whether the other player is doing something or not.

 

[brinboy789]

Did you even PLAY Melee? Sheik had a very nasty chaingrab on Link as well as several other characters.

WHY should we cater to certain characters to increase their viability while we leave others with hopeless matchups and left in the dark?



Again, you fail to grasp the concept. You don't seem to realize that Pika/Fox isn't **** just because of the chaingrab, but Pika counters pretty everything Fox does. The chaingrab is basically rubbing salt in the wounds.

oh. and to answer that question, not really, lol. i was a casual melee player -_-

ugh how about this: im neutral on this debate. both sides have good, valid arguements, so idk...

 

[cutter]

Dedede's infinite is down, grab, down, grab, down, grab, down. Meanwhile, it makes no difference whether the other player is doing something or not.

The same could be said for Wobbling... or ICs chaingrabs in general.

 

[Zankoku]

ICs chaingrabs are ICs chaingrabs. Whether or not you choose to ban those will depend on how much you believe they impact the game.

 

[brinboy789]

IC's have crap grab range, is extremely difficult to pull off, and nana is required. D3's on the other hand, has AMAZING range, all you have to do is roll the cstick around (set it to grabs) and press down every time you grab.

 

[Foursaken]

IC's have crap grab range, is extremely difficult to pull off, and nana is required. D3's on the other hand, has AMAZING range, all you have to do is roll the cstick around (set it to grabs) and press down every time you grab.

While it is true the IC's don't have the best grab range in the game, being grabbed three times in a match is not unrealistic, even with these characters. 3 grabs, 3 stocks, game.

The forward throw IC grab is not that hard. It took me about 2 - 3 days to get the timing down on various characters. Try it; really isn't overwhelmingly difficult.

You must also not fight a lot of good IC's. Do you no how hard it is to separate these two? I play Melee_1, one of, if not the best, IC's in the nation on a weekly basis, and he constantly saves Nana left and right.

I'll give you the argument on D3, it's super easy, and usually results in a stock. But nagging and *****ing about a an infinite I have on 5 characters compared to what the IC's have on the ENTIRE roster makes no sense.

By your logic, it doesn't matter that the IC's have this infinite since it's hard to perform.

Therefore, a mastered broken tactic = justifiable since it's not an easy feat.

No.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Sheik's chaingrabs can be DI'd and involve some form of interaction on both player's part, albeit minimal.

Dedede's infinite is down, grab, down, grab, down, grab, down. Meanwhile, it makes no difference whether the other player is doing something or not.

isnt there some kind of super grab break where if you hit A the frame you get grabbed, you automatically break out of the grab?

if so that is minimal interaction

 

[dingding]

mk sucks anyways why would u want it banned..

 

[brinboy789]

mk sucks anyways why would u want it banned..

*inserts flame shield*

carry on

 

[Mew2King]

bananas are broken lets ban diddy

 

[dingding]

bananas are broken lets ban diddy

totally agree..

 

[SuSa]

bananas are broken lets ban diddy

Bananas are an item, therefore should be banned. I third this

/old diddy main


/sarcasm except the old diddy main part

//some people just don't understand internet sarcasm

///why am I doing this

////the world may never know

 

[da K.I.D.]

im totally for banning diddy nanas, their an item...

Edit 4th lol

 

[dingding]

^^^^^^...... ?

 

[dingding]

if diddy kong didn't have bananas.. he would blow

 

[brinboy789]

^^^^^^...... ?

sarcasm?

10char