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Should Metaknight be Banned? **Take 2** (Post-podcast)

Should Metaknight be banned?


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Fox Hater

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AT first I was one of the guys that said that ban MK was not necesarry but watching and studying all MK aspects me and my friends ( I speak for most of the comunity back in PR) that MK breaks the game. When Akuma was banned in ST2 it was simply because Akuma was created to destroy every other character, his attacks and air hadoken were unbeatable and no character was able to impose that(In high lvl play), even old Sagat had a problem. Is there any difference with MK in smash?

ok here is the thing. that MK has that breaks the game.

1- his tornado. its almost unbeatable and we have found how to stop it with almost all characters but still is very situational and scince MK has no lag and too much priority he can just spam it and have almost all the time the advantage. Only chars that could counter it often were Marth with up B and snake with granade.

2- his up B is ridiculos. it has invincibility frames in the beggining and it can be used to counter almost every attack. like shine in melee but its safe. Still it can be beaten.

3- If you are way up in the stage or in the top paltform of Battlefield he can set up and instant kill with upairs and finish with tornado and kill u( this combo was made by HDL and almost certain kill to any char, and really hard to DI)

4- and the one that really upsets me. With MK there is no edgehog or edgeguard. Yes u can do it to some scrub or stupid person but when someones is debating about competitive play we use High level play. and in high lvl play u cant really count on someone doing a mistake. and MK can just recover from any direction perfect. he can even kill u if u try to gimp him. and he has 5 air recoveries.: glide under stage, tornado , down b, up B ( can end up killing the other player) and Foward B. almost all of the are unstopable. Even pit's recovery can be gimped.

5- No lag in attacks. but it can be dealt with. and invinsible cape for camping but its banned.

Now that these reasons have been mentioned( and believe me I eat MK scrubs for breakfast) its pointless to fight a pro MK because simply he breaks the game and the others characters cant really overcome MK.

I mean unless u want brawl to finish like MvC 2 magneto, Sentinel, Storm, Cable. in brawl it would be: MK, Marth, snake and wario. something like that and still I find it too hard for them to really beat a pro MK. cause Pros dont make mistakes.


Some times I really wonder if sakurai made MK broken on purpose lol.

And if these poll are really to be heard and SBR is considering in ban MK good but if this polls are just made to please some then all this threads are pointless. And there is too many that just want MK banned and have given solid proof.

so Here is my grain of sand on banning MK.
 

bob-e

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I mean unless u want brawl to finish like MvC 2 magneto, Sentinel, Storm, Cable. in brawl it would be: MK, Marth, snake and wario. something like that and still I find it too hard for them to really beat a pro MK. cause Pros dont make mistakes.
Brawl is going to end up like this no matter what is done. If Metaknight is never banned it will be Metaknight, Metaknight, Metaknight, Snake. If he is, then it will just be Snake, G&W, Dedede, Falco, or something along those lines. The ugly truth is: Brawl is a horribly unbalanced game; unless you want to ban at least half a dozen characters, there will always be just a few that completely screw everyone below high tier.

I agree that banning MK will most likely cause greater character diversity in the final state of Brawl's metagame, but it's not going to be a huge difference. We're probably talking about going from 2-3 prominent characters to around 6.
 

AlphaZealot

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1- his tornado. its almost unbeatable and we have found how to stop it with almost all characters but still is very situational and scince MK has no lag and too much priority he can just spam it and have almost all the time the advantage. Only chars that could counter it often were Marth with up B and snake with granade.
You could not be more wrong. <3 Diddy.
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
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Sheik with needles/chain, Peach with fsmash/utilt/Toad, Meta Knight with Shuttle Loop, Zelda with fsmash/usmash, Samus with full-charge shot, Zero Suit Samus with Plasma Whip, Marth with Dolphin Slash/Counter/tipper fsmash/Dancing Blade, Snake with grenade, Ice Climbers with Blizzard, Diddy with bair (I think?) and bananas, and probably a couple others I don't know of since I don't play every character in the game.
 

kozimoto

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I can't belive this..... it's almost pathetic how many whiners there are i guarentee half these people haven't even played a good MK.............

I've seen ganons beat MK's because they play intelligently and not the same braindead style every game......

Also, I also believe some of snake's ATs make him even better than MK.(not saying that either one of them is really that cheap)

most people that are complaining are the ones that don't change their playstyle to the character they're playing against, and still expect to win.
 

aeghrur

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Kozimoto, don't bring up that anecdotal crap nor arguments without support.
Same goes for Fox_Hater with his Tornado=invincible thing. >_>
 

adumbrodeus

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Something has to explain Snake as top tier for a guy who got pushed around by my Game & Watch when he was still clunky from lack of age.



Well, good for you.
Lol, I see your problem.

Snake's f-smash is near useless.

Snake's UPTILT AND FTILT are amazing. And his grenades.

And his up-smash.

And his recovery.

His f-smash has nothing to do with this.


Uh, no. The law of diminishing works against them.
How so exactly?


You mean set him up into a player misatch? NO. JUST.....NO.
Well if beating MK on Sumarai Kirby on expert makes you amazing, then he should be able to do it, or do you admit for the average competitive smash player, that reaction time isn't particularly special.


I'm not even worried about approaching. Falco lags.
Again, no lag, short-hopped.



I didn't know Falcon could use projectiles.

Oh, you mean Falco, without the n. I'll just jump his lasers, air dodge if necessary, and that's the end of it.
You can't short-hop over them. If you're full-hopping, you realize that Falcon is at just about his best when his opponent is below him, right?

Full-hoping against Falco is a BAD idea.


Which you can at least do to him. But Pit, no way. Falco can't shoot somebody getting out of air dodge without that somebody blundering.
Falco's SHDLs have a far superior rate of fire then pit's arrows, or didn't you notice.



Laser spam is just an invitation for disaster. They only fire horizontally, and can't even be held to mess up timing. And you should see it coming, which you can say about Pit's arrows, granted, but with Pit's arrows, it doesn't make a difference.
Except they're lagless.

And you're firing them at different heights. And you can choose the height.

The SHL can be used as a COMBO SET-UP.

Pit's arrows and Falco's lasers have about the same travel speed in case you didn't notice.

I didn't know it was possible to make Wolf at the time of the Landmaster incident look like a success. But you proved it by telling me that like I don't know how to play. Congratulations.
I didn't say you don't know how to play period, I said, "learn to play", which means you don't know how to play at any reasonable level of skill.

You know a style of playing the game, just a very poor one.

So, learn to play.




Says the guy who tells me to match the friend up with an insanity skill player.
Well if the reaction time we're talking about is so rare, then he ought to be able to chop up M2K like mincemeat.


You're missing the very obvious point that, there is nothing special about the reaction time we're talking about. That's why competitive communities can talk about abilities that seem outlandish to the average person as being common place. Because just about everyone in the community can do it, because the dedication to get such skills is part of what draws people to the community.

Almost undoubtedly, almost any casual would fall to the average tournament-attending smash-boards user. Why? Because the barriers to being an active part of the smash community generally are related to skill. So, just being part of this selects for skill.

Simply put, we're far better then the average smash player, and because of this, tactics that seem overpowered to the average player are nothing to us.
 

Dusk104

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This is how I see it, if there's another SSB game and he's still in it, they will tune him down. Then the new characters they add will be over-powered/annoying and we can all vote against them.
 

kr3wman

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This is how I see it, if there's another SSB game and he's still in it, they will tune him down. Then the new characters they add will be over-powered/annoying and we can all vote against them.
If we're playing Brawl right now, what the point of saying ''Well, he'll be toned down next time''?
 

M.K

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This is how I see it, if there's another SSB game and he's still in it, they will tune him down. Then the new characters they add will be over-powered/annoying and we can all vote against them.
*kills Melee Marth and smiles*
*looks behind shoulder*
*Sees Brawl Marth*
*Suicide*
 

Dusk104

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lol

If we're playing Brawl right now, what the point of saying ''Well, he'll be toned down next time''?
@Kr3wman
Well if you're going to say it like that, what is the point of this topic? Do you think Nintendo will agree to banning MK and fix the game for MK haters? Otherwise, MK will always be here.

And the point of saying it is stating my opinion.

@ Meta-Kirby

LOL good point.
 

brinboy789

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just saying, as i was looking through who thought MK should be banned or not, although the "yes" side had more people, the "no" side had more colored people, or people who have been invited to SBR for being intellegent posters. so do "intellegent" posters not want him banned, while regular SWFers want him banned? just saying.
 

Zankoku

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just saying, as i was looking through who thought MK should be banned or not, although the "yes" side had more people, the "no" side had more colored people, or people who have been invited to SBR for being intellegent posters. so do "intellegent" posters not want him banned, while regular SWFers want him banned? just saying.
Don't make assumptions. Purple is SBR, the other colors mean other things. SBR is just posters who have been acknowledged and let in, but that doesn't mean all intelligent posters are SBR (Magus420), or all SBR are intelligent posters (lol M2K). Also, blue name is rather relevant because it usually corresponds to TOs, who will have the final say in whether they ban MK or not at their tournaments. Pink really doesn't matter all that much more than normal, it's just given to those who like to debate on real-life issues. Green.... well, green is awesome.
 

kr3wman

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@Kr3wman
Well if you're going to say it like that, what is the point of this topic? Do you think Nintendo will agree to banning MK and fix the game for MK haters? Otherwise, MK will always be here.
Well, I do think the point of the topic is discussing whether Should Metaknight be Banned. And no, I don't think Nintendo would agree to ban Meta Knight because seriously, Nintendo probably doesn't care at that point.

The podcast, in my opinion, was a great help in making my decision this time around.

I won't reveal, though.
When you click on Yes or No after you voted you can see who voted for which.

So the fact that you voted yes isn't really secret.
 

vbdood1337

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When you click on Yes or No after you voted you can see who voted for which.

So the fact that you voted yes isn't really secret.
You don't even have to vote, just click view results in the bottom right corner of the voting box.

I haven't voted yet, and I know that you voted yes.
 

Sharky

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Can someone with the ability edit the OP to remind everyone of the "view results" button, so that people don't vote just to see results like the above? =/
 

Inui

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omg why are people still responding to Master Knight DH?

AlphaZealot, I learned today playing Chrome Pirate that Diddy Kong can DI out of the tornado and up air from above somehow. It's really strange. Yet another way to **** the tornado. :(

Btw, God bless Snake.
 

adumbrodeus

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omg why are people still responding to Master Knight DH?
Because he's amusing, brick walls tend to be.

AlphaZealot, I learned today playing Chrome Pirate that Diddy Kong can DI out of the tornado and up air from above somehow. It's really strange. Yet another way to **** the tornado. :(
Nice, got a vid?

Or at least a general location of where he comes out?
 

Binx

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When I played the game the first time, and saw all the characters, I knew Metaknight was going to be the best character, when snake started winning all the tournaments I still knew Metaknight was going to be the best character, but then I started using Metaknight for funsies, and I realized that he is very beatable, he does not have an advantage in every match up, but he doesn't have a disadvantage either, counter picking isn't that big of a deal in smash historically, the best 64 player beat everyone with everyone, M2K beat every Sheik in melee with Marth, he beat every, everything with Marth, how often did you really see him counter pick in tournament.

Anyways, I don't think that MK should be banned anymore, there are plenty of characters through patient play who can go even with him, and in the future there will probably be more tactics against him as well, right now I think he's doing so well because he is really easy to use, he's the best for the same reason Sheik was one of the best in melee, ease of use.
 

Andydark

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Personally, I don't feel like I ahve much new to add to the issue that hasn't been said.

As a Peach player who only has one tournament under his belt (A second place no less, but fifty dollars lulz.)

It does feel like Metaknight's ease of use stifles the other characters. I say that because, if he were eliminated from the roster, the rankings would probably change drastically. There are probably very many Peaches who get eaten by Metaknight early on, even if that Metaknight doesn't make it to the semifinals.

Of course, I only say Peach because I'm a peach player. But eh. I'm sure many other characters can be put in there.

I'm not going to say metaknight is flawless, a god, and probably sold his soul to satan or anything like that. It's just that he is LESS flawed to an odd extent. I wish I had something more intelligent to add, but eh. I'm a newb and most of the stuff I could add probably has already BEEN added.

I did learn my lesson from my tournament though: When in doubt, USE THE MASKED PUFFBALL.
 

Dash_Fox

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If Metaknight gets banned from singles would that effect doubles?

Wouldn't banned Metaknight just limit the metagame?

The only character I've ever heard of being banned was Akuma in SSF2T. Does Metaknight reach the gamebreaking status of Akuma?

A temporary ban could be a useful test to determine if banning Metaknight for good is the right way to go. Collect DATA from tournaments that used the banned Metaknight rule and see what happens with the rest of the cast.
 

BarakuDragon

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i listened to that podcast and even still i stand by mk not being baned, I dont see how hes so op that you need to beat him, he's not god and he is beatable reguardless of people being good with him or not just depends on how good you are with your char and how good you are with mk if your not good against mk id suggest having more experience fighting him.
 

Jim Morrison

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i listened to that podcast and even still i stand by mk not being baned, I dont see how hes so op that you need to beat him, he's not god and he is beatable reguardless of people being good with him or not just depends on how good you are with your char and how good you are with mk if your not good against mk id suggest having more experience fighting him.
Crappiest post I read on this thread.

The same amount of Ganondorf being good takes twice/three times the amount of training as being good with MK. You'll reach a certain point where you can not play better, as for MK, he will be better than that. If you put all best top players together on equal skill level, you'll know MK will win.
 

BarakuDragon

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Crappiest post I read on this thread.

The same amount of Ganondorf being good takes twice/three times the amount of training as being good with MK. You'll reach a certain point where you can not play better, as for MK, he will be better than that. If you put all best top players together on equal skill level, you'll know MK will win.
If thats what you think thats fine but I dont beleive that if there was a player with equal skill level for every char mk would be able to beat them all, thats complete bs. MK is not the best character in the world, he is beatable thru skill and mind games.
 

Jim Morrison

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If thats what you think thats fine but I dont beleive that if there was a player with equal skill level for every char mk would be able to beat them all, thats complete bs. MK is not the best character in the world, he is beatable thru skill and mind games.
MK is the best char in Smash though, which is all he needs. You can beat him with true skill, but that means you should be better than him, and I said if you were equal skill. And mindgames, just no. A good MK won't fall for a silly mindgame, nor will any good player.
 

brinboy789

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Crappiest post I read on this thread.

The same amount of Ganondorf being good takes twice/three times the amount of training as being good with MK. You'll reach a certain point where you can not play better, as for MK, he will be better than that. If you put all best top players together on equal skill level, you'll know MK will win.
i hate posts like this. every single best char in any fighting game will obviously be the best choice. now, dont say "MK is the best choice for EVERYTHING" because snake counters him. fox was the best choice in melee, and yet marth counters him (stupid cg lol), but fox is still the best choice.
 

brinboy789

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Snake doesn't counter him, it's neutral.
i thought we already agreed on both sides that he countered MK? im too lazy to write a whole essay on how snake beats MK like jesiah did, so go to MK boards its called "MK? bad matchups? THIS IS MADNESS". theres a whole essay on how he counters him. and pro ban people say "MK has MANY options against snake" i asked them what are they. i didnt get an answer. >_>. fun fact: utilt kills @ around 85% with GOOD DI. X_x
 
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