Should anti-trip be a choice for tourney sets?

[ElDominio]

According to Unity it isn't. (Which means yes)

Yes to? Running side events or having them inside normal tournaments?

Unfortunatley, when you host your razor blade free contest, the national contest organizers will fail to recognize your contest due to the lack of razor blades.

Start a new one. Do you need their approval? You can play the game however you cwant, why do you care about their approval?

 

[link2702]

i hate arguments like this....

neither side backs down, then eventually they start using some wtf random examples to bring in their claims..........


i just saw here someone using something about pies as an example, or red strawberries.


It feels like the original metaknight ban topic all over again, which eventually de-railed into someone trying to use something about a red wagon as a reason to ban/not ban metaknight.

 

[Shockna]

Sadly, this is not the case. You agree to eat the razor blade pie when you want to partake in that particular pie eating contest with razor blades.

If you want to have your own tournament where all the pies have no razor blades, by all means. But some people are purists and want to play in a razor blade infested tournament, so you can't deliberately go in that tourney and agree with your opponent to take out the razor blades, since it's not in the original idea of the tournament.

You can host your own blade free tournament though.
Understand yet?

I certainly understand that you just proved my entire point. Your entire idea is centered around playing the game "as intended"; that is, as Sakurai/Nintendo intended it to be played. Ignoring the fact that this is all an absurd argumentum ad verecundiam, you do realize that the creators that this community seems to idealize above the competitive ideal don't want this community to even exist, right?

 

[falln]

The best argument i can give that's anti "no tripping" is that with regards to large national tournaments (like mlg) it would be very easy for someone to switch sd cards from one that's "no tripping" to "no tripping and also give olimar a 70% chance to pluck purple pikmin". In order to maintain the integrity of said tournament it should be clear why it's dangerous to start regulating codes into a tournament of such a caliber.

Within the context of local tournaments I don't think anyone (that is an active part of the offline community) would ever deliberately move from a station with the no tripping hax to a station without it because of the hack itself.

Finally in regards to the part where I said kirby olimar is next to impossible without tripping: I also said at that time that kirby olimar is next to impossible with tripping. But for what it's worth I don't think either statement is true anymore.

 

[Arcansi]

Yes to? Running side events or having them inside normal tournaments?

I'm arguing they should be allowed to be as tournaments.

Start a new one. Do you need their approval? You can play the game however you cwant, why do you care about their approval?

Why does this exist in the first place?

 

[Shockna]

The best argument i can give that's anti "no tripping" is that with regards to large national tournaments (like mlg) it would be very easy for someone to switch sd cards from one that's "no tripping" to "no tripping and also give olimar a 70% chance to pluck purple pikmin". In order to maintain the integrity of said tournament it should be clear why it's dangerous to start regulating codes into a tournament of such a caliber.

It's also the first good argument this whole thread. Shame that all nationals can't use 100% brewed Wiis.

 

[John12346]

I really shouldn't have to explain this, because it's common knowledge, but you do not need a Homebrew'd Wii in order to activate cheat codes.

Someone created a corrupted Stage Builder stage which, when displayed on the Stage Builder menu, causes Brawl to suddenly cut out and load whatever boot.elf file is loaded into the proper directory of your SD Card at the time, such as Gecko OS. The hack is formerly known as Stack Smash, and it can be used on any Wii, modded or unmodded, and regardless of the version of the Wii.

There is a prerequisite to this, though, and it requires that you delete all other existing Stage Builder stages on your Wii, or else it causes the game to freeze.

In addition, you only need one SD Card to do this, because, once a code is loaded, the SD Card does not need to remain in the Wii for the codes to stay active. Codes such as "No Tripping" remain in effect even if the SD Card is not present in the Wii. The only one exception is the File Patch Code, but only because that code calls for Brawl to actively read files from your SD Card in order to work.

tl;dr - In order to run a "No Tripping" tourney, any Wii can be used, regardless of specs, and you only need one SD Card to do it.

 

[Shockna]

I really shouldn't have to explain this, because it's common knowledge, but you do not need a Homebrew'd Wii in order to activate cheat codes.

Someone created a corrupted Stage Builder stage which, when displayed on the Stage Builder menu, causes Brawl to suddenly cut out and load whatever boot.elf file is loaded into the proper directory of your SD Card at the time, such as Gecko OS. The hack is formerly known as Stack Smash, and it can be used on any Wii, modded or unmodded, and regardless of the version of the Wii.

There is a prerequisite to this, though, and it requires that you delete all other existing Stage Builder stages on your Wii, or else it causes the game to freeze.

In addition, you only need one SD Card to do this, because, once a code is loaded, the SD Card does not need to remain in the Wii for the codes to stay active. Codes such as "No Tripping" remain in effect even if the SD Card is not present in the Wii. The only one exception is the File Patch Code, but only because that code calls for Brawl to actively read files from your SD Card in order to work.

tl;dr - In order to run a "No Tripping" tourney, any Wii can be used, regardless of specs, and you only need one SD Card to do it.

So it's not really possible to just swap out an SD card when nobody is looking and cheat? >_>

 

[ElDominio]

You could equally just as well re-run smash stack with cheats, so yeah.

And again, Arcansi, im not against it being a tournament itself, just not in normal Brawl brackets.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Get back to me when we allow a code to normalize Dedede side-B.

All gordos YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH

 

[B.A.M.]

Honestly the only reason as far as im concerned this shouldnt be implemented is cheating potential (that already exist anyways), and the fact that it is a global mechanic that is detrimental to the competitive aspect of the game. People need to stop referencing to Luigi's Misfire and Gdubs hammers; its not in the same category. Again I ask, doesnt Euro play non tripping?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Only france does as far as I'm aware.

 

[Revven]

u guys make it sound like tripping is the only random thing in the game

This argument is bad for a number of reasons:

1. You have absolutely no real control over dash tripping. You can dance around this all you want with "lol jump around then!" or "roll around then!" but either of those options is just asking for the person to be punished and take damage with some really rare exceptions.

2. The other random elements you speak of players have control over. They can avoid the random element completely by not being near the opponent when they do it. Most of the random elements from moves in this game have a good amount of warning, from Gordos to Stitches to G&W's 9. Tripping has no warning at all other than a wonky thud sound which... you still can't predict will happen. The player who even DOES the move that has a random element has control over it by increasing the chances of it happening if they spam the move or use it often enough.

3. The other random elements in the game aren't as hugely game changing. People expect them to happen and are 99% of the time prepared for it. Players have been used to Peach being able to pull Bob-ombs since Melee and are perfectly okay with it because it largely depends on the skill of both players if that Bob-omb screws the match up. Tripping screws the match up regardless of what either player does. Player 1 has the chance to take advantage of the person who tripped and even if player 1 messes up doing that Player 2 still fumbled his approach because of the trip and now has to rethink his approach OR do something else entirely. It's not good for the person who tripped in either situation whereas with the Bob-omb example the person who pulled the Bob-omb and the person who has to avoid it is all based on when that Peach player throws the bomb having a small amount of skill in the mix. Tripping is just random and doesn't depend on skill at all, it depends on placement of the players. And most of the time, that placement is the one who tripped is close to the opponent thus they get hit hard and any amount of % matters in this game.

It's appalling really that this argument is thrown around. This whole topic has a lot of dumb arguments against just allowing the option to the players. The TC wasn't even asking for it as a standard yet people's reading comprehension fail and they think he's asking for it to be standard. >_>

I'm out.

 

[Damix91]

I think most people just disapprove of hacks beyond cosmetic ones.

 

[Fizzle]

Get rid of the RPS idea. Make anti-tripping the default. If any player requests to play with tripping (god help them), then get rid of the hack. No questions asked.

If two serious players want to have a competitive match, why should we forbid them to do so?

 

[Arcansi]

If any player requests to play with tripping (god help them), then get rid of the hack. No questions asked.

Why even do that?

 

[Judo777]

What happens when 1 player wants to play with tripping and the other doesn't? RPS? If so does the loser get to pick port/first stage and the winner get to pick the other?

 

[Ghostbone]

It's appalling really that this argument is thrown around. This whole topic has a lot of dumb arguments against just allowing the option to the players. The TC wasn't even asking for it as a standard yet people's reading comprehension fail and they think he's asking for it to be standard. >_>

I'm out.

That's because there's a difference between the two.
It's about consistency between sets.

Don't call other people out on their reading comprehension when you haven't understood their point.

 

[Orion*]

Make anti-tripping the default. If any player requests to play with tripping (god help them), then get rid of the hack. No questions asked.

If two serious players want to have a competitive match, why should we forbid them to do so?

this

10this

that way the game doesn't suck. but i can still troll ice climber mains

 

[Spelt]

Yeah except no matter how much you preach about how it should happen it never will.


Soviet Backroom up in here.

 

[Alien Vision]

What did I just read?

 

[-LzR-]

Removing tripping doesn't suddenly make this game supercompetitive.

 

[Judo777]

This argument is bad for a number of reasons:

1. You have absolutely no real control over dash tripping. You can dance around this all you want with "lol jump around then!" or "roll around then!" but either of those options is just asking for the person to be punished and take damage with some really rare exceptions.

2. The other random elements you speak of players have control over. They can avoid the random element completely by not being near the opponent when they do it. Most of the random elements from moves in this game have a good amount of warning, from Gordos to Stitches to G&W's 9. Tripping has no warning at all other than a wonky thud sound which... you still can't predict will happen. The player who even DOES the move that has a random element has control over it by increasing the chances of it happening if they spam the move or use it often enough.

3. The other random elements in the game aren't as hugely game changing. People expect them to happen and are 99% of the time prepared for it. Players have been used to Peach being able to pull Bob-ombs since Melee and are perfectly okay with it because it largely depends on the skill of both players if that Bob-omb screws the match up. Tripping screws the match up regardless of what either player does. Player 1 has the chance to take advantage of the person who tripped and even if player 1 messes up doing that Player 2 still fumbled his approach because of the trip and now has to rethink his approach OR do something else entirely. It's not good for the person who tripped in either situation whereas with the Bob-omb example the person who pulled the Bob-omb and the person who has to avoid it is all based on when that Peach player throws the bomb having a small amount of skill in the mix. Tripping is just random and doesn't depend on skill at all, it depends on placement of the players. And most of the time, that placement is the one who tripped is close to the opponent thus they get hit hard and any amount of % matters in this game.

It's appalling really that this argument is thrown around. This whole topic has a lot of dumb arguments against just allowing the option to the players. The TC wasn't even asking for it as a standard yet people's reading comprehension fail and they think he's asking for it to be standard. >_>

I'm out.

While what you say has a degree of truth, you are also immediately assuming that random factor moves are completely different from dashing. When you think about it dashing is simply a random move that has a 1/100 chance of tripping just like doing a hammer has a 1/7 chance of being a 9 (depending on when you use it). It just so happens that everyone has the random dash move and that it is much more useful than the other moves.

Also most all of the random elements in smash have huge game changing factors. I think I have gotten more kills off of killing a misfiring luigi than I have killing a tripped player. Also I think I have died not too many less times from the ghost platform than i have from tripping, (when sheik tries to tether and the ghost platform pops up she instead will do a mid air chain an experience around 45 frames of lag and either be stationary on the platform or be falling).

 

[Fizzle]

What happens when 1 player wants to play with tripping and the other doesn't? RPS? If so does the loser get to pick port/first stage and the winner get to pick the other?

Did you read my post? No RPS. If two players (or teams) are playing a match and EITHER person (or team) wants tripping, then they automatically overrule the person who doesn't. That way those who want tripping can have it whenever they want.

Of course, I'd be happier with no tripping at all, but I'm willing to compromise with those who are unwilling to give it up.

 

[Judo777]

Did you read my post? No RPS. If two players (or teams) are playing a match and EITHER person (or team) wants tripping, then they automatically overrule the person who doesn't. That way those who want tripping can have it whenever they want.

Of course, I'd be happier with no tripping at all, but I'm willing to compromise with those who are unwilling to give it up.

I don't think I did read ur post actually. I'm not reading the whole thread because I ave no stance as I said. So no I didn't.

 

[infiniteV115]

While I don't think the thread is about allowing tripping, I can assure you that I'm currently petitioning for a rule to disqualify anyone from tournament who randomly trips during a dash attempt.

LMAO bad wording on my part XD

But you get the idea
If people are going to disallow versions of brawl in which random tripping is possible at their tournaments, YI:B should not be legal at said tournaments.

 

[_Keno_]

We argued about this quite a bit, and the end thinking is that condoning the trip hack steps our foot in territory that should likely be stayed away from. The line is already getting blurred with texture and music hacks, as well as infinite replays, but those hacks are within the boundaries of being cosmetic and not actually effecting the physics of the game. If you start to allow hacks that effect the physics of the game, you could potentially be opening a pandora's box.

Reading this, I was disappointed to how poor of reasoning this was. Its not like people will suddenly become more open to changing hitboxes or other game mods just because a singe random element of the game is removed. There is no pandora's box as long as you specifically say the line stops at random tripping.

 

[Judo777]

Reading this, I was disappointed to how poor of reasoning this was. Its not like people will suddenly become more open to changing hitboxes or other game mods just because a singe random element of the game is removed. There is no pandora's box as long as you specifically say the line stops at random tripping.

I know 15 smashers off the top of my head that would have no issue removing Snakes Utilt range lol. And why should the line stop there? There are others things that could arguably need fixing.

 

[WindMajor]

Did you read my post? No RPS. If two players (or teams) are playing a match and EITHER person (or team) wants tripping, then they automatically overrule the person who doesn't. That way those who want tripping can have it whenever they want.

Of course, I'd be happier with no tripping at all, but I'm willing to compromise with those who are unwilling to give it up.

Assuming we are going though with this, it should be backwards.

If both players want to change from the original game to a modified version, then they should.

The original game should be the default game, one person wanting to switch from default shouldn't overrule the other person who wouldn't want to switch.

 

[tekkie]

why the **** is it legal to play tournament games with **** textures that, for a personal example, can cloak a c4 and lead to a low-% kill

yet tripping, which i've also lost stocks to, especially against ice climbers, is not to be touched

 

[-LzR-]

Playing tourneys with textures isn't forced. You can always ask to play with them off.

 

[Ghostbone]

why the **** is it legal to play tournament games with **** textures that, for a personal example, can cloak a c4 and lead to a low-% kill

yet tripping, which i've also lost stocks to, especially against ice climbers, is not to be touched

Take the SD card out lol
It's what I do (well I'm PAL so it's more complicated but whatevs).

 

[-LzR-]

Finland has a rule that forces textures to be taken off if one of the players wants so. No one should be forced to play with textures.

 

[John12346]

That's the case here in NY, as well as a lot of other regions, as well. A request for no textures takes precedence, although there's no written rule for it.

It's just an implied sort of thing.

 

[Dekar173]

Finland has a rule that forces textures to be taken off if one of the players wants so. No one should be forced to play with textures.

Wtf Finland doesn't follow the Unity ruleset word for word?! It's as if the BBR is actually powerless, but awful TOs just conform to the status quo!

 

[Browny]

Well firstly, BBR =/= BRC

Secondly, its almost as if the BRC imposes themselves in such a way to make it seem that anyone who doesnt follow their ruleset is using a subjective, scrubby bad ruleset, not worthy of being made a sticky thread on the glorious smashboards.

Almost.

 

[Ghostbone]

Wtf Finland doesn't follow the Unity ruleset word for word?! It's as if the BBR is actually powerless, but awful TOs just conform to the status quo!

lol as if people are just defending no option to turn tripping off because the unity ruleset doesn't let you do that.

Btw being able to turn textures/music hacks is part of the unity ruleset.

 

[Dekar173]

Secondly, its almost as if the BRC imposes themselves in such a way to make it seem that anyone who doesnt follow their ruleset is using a subjective, scrubby bad ruleset, not worthy of being made a sticky thread on the glorious smashboards.

This is where the problems stem from.

 

[ElDominio]

I remember I made quite a few posts in this thread about something.
Then I realized that:
A) The people that make the rulesets won't care about this thread
B) The guys proposing these changes aren't starting to host their own tournaments with their own ideas.

I then realized the uselessness of this thread, and promptly quit posting.

 

[Dekar173]

I remember I made quite a few posts in this thread about something.
Then I realized that:
A) The people that make the rulesets won't care about this thread
B) The guys proposing these changes aren't starting to host their own tournaments with their own ideas.

I then realized the uselessness of this thread, and promptly quit posting.

lol, typical scrub who just doesn't pay attention to smash scenes XD