Shoot First, Ask Questions Later: The Samus Tactical Discussion & Q&A Thread

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

@KJ: Wait...what? I thought you were refering to the actual move before XD

Either way, full charge shot is one of the highest knockback moves we have, and you corerected me saying it was angled-up fsmash =3

 

[Darkshadow7827]

@Darkshadow: It does, as i said, have the LONGEST horizontal range for a spike in the game. Fun-fact, wolf has the longest vertical spike in the game

Wow, I learned another thing today. Geeze, the info keeps flowin' . At least I won't have to worry about wolf's spike since not too many people main him.

Let me get this straight, one of our main killing tools and perhaps one of the strongest projectiles in the game is outshined by our second to worst smash with HORRID range?
Oh boy, we are in some deep **** >.>

It may be one of the strongest, but as far as projectiles go, charge shot is terrible.

CG really needs more knockback and more speed. I knew Samus' fsmash wasn't anything spectacular, but is it really the second to worst?

 

[KillerJawz]

To what move....

I'm really confused now X.x.....

Anyway. That's talk about kill set ups.

I find that homing missle > walk > dtilt is a superb one on floaties.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

I don't know what we are talking about anymore @.@

homing missle>walk>dtilt is perhaps my favorite kill setup. As far as mindgames go i also like to do jab cancel>CS occasionally

 

[IYM!]

about set ups for kill, i mentioned one before SH>Uair>land>utilt, is simple and efective most of the time

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

That one is pretty situational. You will have to read your opponents DI so you know what direction to utilt, plus, utilt isn't exactly the fastest move of the game so it is doubtful you will land it.

 

[KillerJawz]

Utilt does eat airdodges very nicely however, and can really end stocks quickly due to it's several different knockback angles.

I think that there is more to be experimented with in terms of using her throws to set up kills. What I've noticed when people fight my Samus, is that after a D throw they will instinctivly airdodge my follow ups, such as uair and upb. However, what if we were to space ourselves backwards and B reverse CS? I saw somebody do it once and I figure it could be a nice mix up. Even if the CS misses, we are still at a good position since we just spaced backwards.

 

[Zatchiel]

Well I have just tested that theory, using both fully charged and precharged. Fully charged killed Jiggs at 103, Near fully charged killed around 110.

Thoughts?

@KJ: Lol i was refering to damage wise ect. I know how bad it is =3

@LP: I think you are coming from the standpoint that it is harder to DI because of the lessened hitlag correct? Otherwise, pre-full CS is in no way stronger than Full CS

I think Omega summed up my confusion, Pre-full is just easier to score KO's with, i guess
Thanks for the instance though, KJ.

 

[DelxDoom]

fully charged shot is a good kill move because it can hit nearer to the blast zones than your other moves ie off stage

also it has good range/speed so it can punish moves a lot easier than other moves can

though yeah it's hard to kill with at times

i usually kill with ftilt at like 250

 

[DtJ Composer]

LP what is that new usergroup color?

(This is an important question!)

Edit: wtf freaking smashboards making me look like liars.
Where did it go?

 

[Zatchiel]

i usually kill with ftilt at like 250

Are you playing vs a D3 or something? Are you angling the Ftilt? I normally use Ftilt as a less punishable KO move at really high percents, and near the ledge.

LP what is that new usergroup color?

(This is an important question!)

Mayyyybe better asked in the Social Thread, but it was just some random usergroup that Mic created. Unfortunately, it gave some major features, such as access to sections of these forums, not meant to be accessed.
It's downed now.

 

[KillerJawz]

LP what is that new usergroup color?

(This is an important question!)

Edit: wtf freaking smashboards making me look like liars.
Where did it go?

Not important enough I'm afraid.

Are you playing vs a D3 or something? Are you angling the Ftilt? I normally use Ftilt as a less punishable KO move at really high percents, and near the ledge.

When I faced a D3 in tournament I killed him with a ftilt not angled at 247% after screaming *JUST DIE* <3.

 

[-Cross-]

Low angled ftilt near the ledge, depending on the stage, kills fairly early (~130%) for me, because it's quick and catches opponent's off guard in terms of DI. With DI it's probably much worse, but non-angled ftilt is so weak. Does anybody know if angled ftilt actually has more shield stun and shield knockback then non-angled ftilt? I remember kicking a TL's shield with low angled ftilt near max range, and the shield knockback was enough for TL's grab to miss. But whenever I non angle ftilt TL at anything but tipper range, I get grabbed.

 

[Mister Eric]

Hellu Samus Boards, you might be seeing me a lot here in the next little while asking questions about your character and how they perform on a certain stage.
Character boards seem to cycle through incomplete MU threads to new ones in hope to update them and finally complete them. This is the R.O.B. Boards attempt at completing a sufficient stage-discussion thread and I'm going to try my best to get accurate and thorough information, but I'll need your help. This will be the only question with an introductory. I just wanted to say hello and let you know that if you guys need info on anything for R.O.B. don't hesitate asking. ^_^

Anywho!

Q: How does Samus fair off on Delfino Plaza in general and against R.O.B.. Why is it good or bad? What can Samus abuse and what might possibly annoy you that R.O.B. can do on this stage? On a scale of 1 - 10, what do you see Samus' chances of doing well on this stage against R.O.B. 1 being the worst for you 10 being the best.

thanks guys =]
<beep3

 

[DelxDoom]

I hate Delfino Plaza, everyone else loves Delfino Plaza.

Samus can do ledge stuff on Delfino Plaza but I always mess up.

Samus can spike better than ROB can on water.

ROB can camp on this huge effing stage. With lasers and gyros that beat missiles and can annoy the SH Zair.

ROB can kill. That annoys me because I play Samus and Samus can't kill.

The ceiling changes always kill me.

ROB not dying also annoys me. He has that super Up B which is annoying.
It's more possible to dair him but dair doesn't always kill on this stage. That is p annoying.

Samus is terrible. That is annoying.

 

[LanceStern]

Ftilt angled down is actually a good KO move (130 - 140%). It can be a better choice than dtilt or utilt if the opponent is expecting it, and it's a little safer because it has less cooldown lag

 

[KillerJawz]

Ftilt angled down is actually a good KO move (130 - 140%). It can be a better choice than dtilt or utilt if the opponent is expecting it, and it's a little safer because it has less cooldown lag

Your opponents need to learn to DI. Ftilt regardless of angle won't kill D3 till over 200, it may kill Jiggs around 170-180, but that's it, even at the edge, nobody is dying at 130-140.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

@Mister Eric: I personally give it either a 5/10 or a 6/10. For one thing, during the flying stages, Samus can plank and shark ROB fairly well especially with her zair. The flying stages are cramped for a character like Samus and her close-combat skill is beaten by ROB's. Our aerial game ties with ROB's imo. ROB gets an advantage on the longer stages like the plaza because he has more space to camp. ROB is large and unusually shaped so he gets pokek by zair a lot. His dreaded spotdodge>dsmash eats a lot of our close-combat in it self. I feel we get more of an advantage during the pillar stage because it becomes easier to spike him into the water where Samus gets a huge advantage.

Overall, it depends on who plays smarter but i personally wouldn't CP him here.

 

[Mister Eric]

Thanks a beepton DelxDoom & Dragonmaster_Omega<3
If anyone else has something they'd like to add, please feel free =]
It would be greatly appreciated.

 

[DelxDoom]

Everyone else wasn't all characters but Samus, but rather a lot of other Samus players do like Delf

 

[Cherry64]

They both have it right, I use samus' abismal speed for mind games, I play my samus like I play m,y fox, running around airdodging through platforms, walking and dropping through to Usmash. So I ****ing love delphino. but it's not great for samus, doesn't really hinder us either. It, simply put, just is.

 

[IYM!]

What missile is better for spaming, the homing or strong missile?

 

[Cherry64]

What missile is better for spaming, the homing or strong missile?

Depends on the situation AND Character.

Example being: Kirby usually goes in the air, it's easy to dodge super missiles in the air, especially with multi jumps, so homing missiles destroy in this MU.

super missiles are epic tech chasers, assuming the opponent is on the ground, Fire one of those off, if the opponent rolls backwards he'll get hit, if he gets up, he'l get hit, if he rolls forward, you can punish him.

In general Homing missiles are the better spam because they are harder to perfect shield, and they follow you. Wreck air game pretty nicely too

 

[Xyro77]

What missile is better for spaming, the homing or strong missile?

99% of the time, use homing missles. they are faster and can lock on to people. When the run out of gas they slow down big time and can catch people if they airdodge. use SUPER missles on the BIG characters like DK/ROB/SAMUS/DDD/BOWSER/SNAKE. Super missles EAT shields like there is no tomorrow.

 

[IYM!]

thanks for the information Cherry and Xyro, i found homming missiles better right now.

 

[Thebest1pj]

if tudor,xyro,tac,thecomposer and genosamus combined that would be da bes samus

 

[Bombo]

Okay well I have come across a slight problem with Samus. Her being my favourite character though I will not give her up. Most of her attacks are are able to be canceled easily especially by Snake. For example homing missles can simply just be punched out of the sky with no pain from the explosion from Snake. Of course now I MC and trick the Snake guy at my house. I was actually fighting a level nine Ganendorf and he just kept kicking my Smash missles out of the sky. Plus Samus has no really good killing potential against Snake, that I know of. Do you know a good way to kill Snake easily or is Samus doomed to have to get his damage up to three hundred percent every time, or just gimp him

Another thing is my friend and I were practicing this thing where fox does his down smash and shoots Samus/Link across the stage and they would grapple the ledge but I accidently rolled three times during the practice (at two hundred percent damage) can you explain why I was able to pull such an amazing feat?

 

[Zatchiel]

Okay well I have come across a slight problem with Samus. Her being my favourite character though I will not give her up. Most of her attacks are are able to be canceled easily especially by Snake. For example homing missles can simply just be punched out of the sky with no pain from the explosion from Snake. Of course now I MC and trick the Snake guy at my house. I was actually fighting a level nine Ganendorf and he just kept kicking my Smash missles out of the sky. Plus Samus has no really good killing potential against Snake, that I know of. Do you know a good way to kill Snake easily or is Samus doomed to have to get his damage up to three hundred percent every time, or just gimp him

Another thing is my friend and I were practicing this thing where fox does his down smash and shoots Samus/Link across the stage and they would grapple the ledge but I accidently rolled three times during the practice (at two hundred percent damage) can you explain why I was able to pull such an amazing feat?

@Top: Samus is bad enough, and Missiles have some of the worst priority in the game :/
Best way to kill Snake is to gimp, but that's only if the Snake player is stupid enough (or is forced) to recover low. Other than that, a Snake player with good DI won't take a KO until about 180%. Unless you can get a CS and KO at prob. 170%, but good Snakes normally out camp you and use Grenades to punish you for any lag you may endure attempting to charge.

@Bottom: Teching the Dsmash is actually better than Quick-Tether, IMO.
It doesn't force you to resort to Samus' ledge game, especially when she's at high %'s. Just Tech it and you should be good. Quick-Tether is for when you either know you're not going to Tech, or you're getting sent by the attack just a bit too high to Tech along the floor.
And when you ask how: Normally, when you try to Quick-Tether, you have to input an Air-Dodge before you can send out the Tether, which in turn, makes you Tech within the 20 Frame Window.

 

[Cherry64]

@Top: Samus is bad enough, and Missiles have some of the worst priority in the game :/
Best way to kill Snake is to gimp, but that's only if the Snake player is stupid enough (or is forced) to recover low. Other than that, a Snake player with good DI won't take a KO until about 180%. Unless you can get a CS and KO at prob. 170%, but good Snakes normally out camp you and use Grenades to punish you for any lag you may endure attempting to charge.

@Bottom: Teching the Dsmash is actually better than Quick-Tether, IMO.
It doesn't force you to resort to Samus' ledge game, especially when she's at high %'s. Just Tech it and you should be good. Quick-Tether is for when you either know you're not going to Tech, or you're getting sent by the attack just a bit too high to Tech along the floor.
And when you ask how: Normally, when you try to Quick-Tether, you have to input an Air-Dodge before you can send out the Tether, which in turn, makes you Tech within the 20 Frame Window.

Play smarter. They will jump then UpB giving them Huuuge air speed, it's like a longer version of their UpB so instead of recovering low they will almost always do that. Jump and fire a CS at him, if he air-dodges he should NOT be getting back on the stage. and if he doesn't he'l get nailed by the CS.

We don't have the luxury of bad aim guys. Lrn2Read and punish. the slower you move the easier this game is, Srsly I think walking is super underrated in these boards.

...I wonder, if a bunch of people complained that samus is weaker because she is a girl, and called it sexism, would they make her OP in the next game?...want to try?

EDIT: LP, If your getting outcamped by snakes you should either quit life, or Lrn2Camp, dude, I played a player clearly better than me, and he went snake, and was trying to outcamp me, if you fire off a super missile thenfull hop>double missing, retreat and rinse and repeat, his nades don't get through(well the occasional one does, but that's what your shield is for).

Seriously I have never heard of snake out camping a samus. I am also going to take this time to say to xyro and everyone else that said DDD can out camp us, that yes indeed he can there are NO missile tricks we can use to beat his stupid little things. that MU is just stupid at higher levels of play. Yeah, I said it.

 

[Zatchiel]

Play smarter. They will jump then UpB giving them Huuuge air speed, it's like a longer version of their UpB so instead of recovering low they will almost always do that. Jump and fire a CS at him, if he air-dodges he should NOT be getting back on the stage. and if he doesn't he'l get nailed by the CS.

What kind of Snake are you playing? :V
I know that Snake gets a boost from using Jump > Cypher simultaneously, but they don't have to be at a low altitude to do this.

He can go into the upper Blast Line, and he can wavebounce a nade, drop a C4, or Nair to keep Samus at a low advantage when Snake is over her. You could keep your distance away and Zair him when before he reaches the ground, and if he Air-Dodges the Zair, you can use a quick Dash Attack, a Super Missile, or CS to punish.

Any other instance of edge-guarding Snake would require him to be at a low altitude.
Are you trying to make Samus look good?

Edit: Sorry, didn't really mean out-camp, more so, out prioritize.

 

[Kaffei]

Does Samus' Up B have invincibility frames?

 

[LanceStern]

Nope it does not

 

[IYM!]

Camping snake is pretty easy with samus, our missiles are faster, and our Zair can make him drop his granades.

@LanceStern: you are wrong man, the Up B have invencible frames, but at the start of the move.

 

[KillerJawz]

IYM, it has no invincibility frames to speak of. It hits on frame 5.

 

[IYM!]

Really???

but one time i remember do a screw attack at the same time with a peach up B, and her umbrella comes first, but Samus dont recived damage (the umbrella went throught the Samus) , and my UpB won.

so... that is why i said that in my previoust post

 

[Cherry64]

What kind of Snake are you playing? :V
I know that Snake gets a boost from using Jump > Cypher simultaneously, but they don't have to be at a low altitude to do this.

He can go into the upper Blast Line, and he can wavebounce a nade, drop a C4, or Nair to keep Samus at a low advantage when Snake is over her. You could keep your distance away and Zair him when before he reaches the ground, and if he Air-Dodges the Zair, you can use a quick Dash Attack, a Super Missile, or CS to punish.

Any other instance of edge-guarding Snake would require him to be at a low altitude.
Are you trying to make Samus look good?

Edit: Sorry, didn't really mean out-camp, more so, out prioritize.

firstly she's not as bad as you make her sound. Yes she's terrible, but not Abysmal, specially in this MU. Good snakes are hard to find, but they generally kick ***. I also use snake so I know his style pretty well.

so now to get it rolling, if he is high above, wait it out, DON'T stand below him. and most importantly HAVE A CHARGE SHOT READY. Now he if he pulls a naid he will want to throw it when he comes into visibility on the screen, any longer and he'll risk zair'd and falling with a live naid, SO you can either CS him, or zair as a mix up.

I don't think I talked about edge guarding snake even a little, if I did I am sorry. there is no point, I simply CS them, or Super missile them because it knocks them out of cypher

 

[Zatchiel]

firstly she's not as bad as you make her sound. Yes she's terrible, but not Abysmal, specially in this MU. Good snakes are hard to find, but they generally kick ***. I also use snake so I know his style pretty well.

so now to get it rolling, if he is high above, wait it out, DON'T stand below him. and most importantly HAVE A CHARGE SHOT READY. Now he if he pulls a naid he will want to throw it when he comes into visibility on the screen, any longer and he'll risk zair'd and falling with a live naid, SO you can either CS him, or zair as a mix up.

I don't think I talked about edge guarding snake even a little, if I did I am sorry. there is no point, I simply CS them, or Super missile them because it knocks them out of cypher

Did you miss the part where you were talking about him recovering from below?
And she's not that bad. Got it. I'll look for someone worse to main :bigthumbu

You're going to have time to get a CS loaded if he's high up, and you don't already have it full.
If he throws it and he's already below the top blast line, you can Uair, CS, or Zair.

I only attempt edge-guarding a Snake if he's below the stage level, at the right height to take a CS or Missile, or he's wasting his time pulling nades in the air after his second jump.
Other than that, just wait for him to free-fall from the upper blast line.

 

[KillerJawz]

She is just as bad as LP has made her out to be. It's pretty much set in stone now.

I won't even ASK what Snake is doing ABOVE you, and NOT on the ground techchasing you for a free 50% or so. Theres no point in talking about nade patterns, because every Snake is different. Some of them like to throw em upwards, others bait you into frame traps from a tech chase.

 

[Cherry64]

Wow. That's one long curse word.

Really though, Xyro, if you have a problem with Dryn, I suggest you take it to PMs or the Forum Disputes section. I really don't think this should get any bigger than it already is.

Wat?
10wats?
How is the most recent post from May, 09?
Haha, she's not nearly as bad as LP says she is. she is horrible at killing though, Gawd ****. And IYM there arne't any invicibility frames on it. not sure what happened there but congrats on beating a peachs' UpB with samus's. that's skill

 

[NO-IDea]

It's amusing watching bad players babble on how to play MUs.

You can't be aggressive against DDD. You can play near the edges and minimize the CG%. At most suffer 25% from d-throw->b-throw. You can avoid practically every kill move of his and live until 150%, higher if his b-air is stale. Getting hit from his u-tilt is a joke on you, since you probably did something like air dodge into it, or he rolled past your z-air for you z-air spammers.

L2P against Snake. Camp his ***. He'll learn he has to approach. Switch up between f-tilt/dash attack/grab after your missiles. Punish with d-tilt and d-smash to get him into the air. Space u-airs to provide pressure without hitting grenade. Z-air is a stupid way to apply aerial pressure for those who suggested it. The point is to be below him, not get on his level. Eventually you can bait an air dodge into a b-air or charge shot. Only use z-air to punish a bad grenade pull (you shouldn't see this happen, but if it does, then yeah that would be a good punish.)

Snake's consistent kill moves in this MU are u-tilt and b-air. U-tilt requires a set-up to land or bad play on your part (you z-air/missile spammers. You space horribly.) B-air requires a read, again bad play on your part or a misread (it happens.) You should be living until 150% with proper DI. (Which then grenades, dash attack/mortars and fresh f-tilts might kill you.)

@KJ: Samus has a decent roll from get-up. 50% from d-throw tech chase? Stop being so predictable.

Just admit you're bad at the game before crying about the character design. I also want to mention how hilariously funny it is to hear complaints against high tiers like Marth and Snake when most mid tiers armed with MU knowledge can be just as bad or worse. You think Snake is bad? Try a Peach who stays grounded after getting her 50% combo off. LOL @ approaching. I've yet to see a replay of a Peach main gay enough to just use glide toss/jab/grab. Or a Fox who doesn't approach at all.

Most of you suck and don't play enough good people to know it.

I'm back at school. Ironically, this means I'll be more active here during my boredom. You know you love me.