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Shoot First, Ask Questions Later: The Samus Tactical Discussion & Q&A Thread

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Noid name the Snake players you face on a regular basis. I play the best Snake in Europe on a regular basis, I would love to hear your names. Also, a decent get up from a roll? You clearly know nothing about Samus, and I question your ability to actually play this game. Also Peach doesn't have 50% from ANY combo, even if you CAN'T SDI, so stop spewing this rubbish. Bair one of Snake's main killing moves? In the words of the infamous Xyro... WAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You think ftilt works on a good Snake? You're really funny.

When buffered, Snake has a free ftilt out of a dthrow get up. Even if you roll away, get up or stand, he has a free hit on you. Snakes you play need to learn how to tech chase Samus.

You are a terrible Samus main, and should feel bad for even posting here.
I do love you, but personal attacks will not be tolerated
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
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Noid name the Snake players you face on a regular basis. I play the best Snake in Europe on a regular basis, I would love to hear your names. Also, a decent get up from a roll? You clearly know nothing about Samus, and I question your ability to actually play this game. Also Peach doesn't have 50% from ANY combo, even if you CAN'T SDI, so stop spewing this rubbish. Bair one of Snake's main killing moves? In the words of the infamous Xyro... WAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You think ftilt works on a good Snake? You're really funny.

When buffered, Snake has a free ftilt out of a dthrow get up. Even if you roll away, get up or stand, he has a free hit on you. Snakes you play need to learn how to tech chase Samus.

You are a terrible Samus main, and should feel bad for even posting here.
I do love you, but personal attacks will not be tolerated
I do wanna side with No-idea a little bit here.


Since u said we didnt have to perfectly SDI, Peach DOES have a 42%(maybe 48%) combo on samus(full dair, FF u air, u tilt). Yea its not 50 but its close enough. Illmatic(when hes thinkin right) can play grounded with glidetoss-jab or grab and never go in the air. THAT makes the MU turn REALLY REALLY hard. Noid is also right about how alot of people complain about snake(for example) but some mid tier MUs are almost just as hard. An extremely campy toon links or fox are good examples.


As for snake, i dont really wanna comment cause ive played razer for over 2 years now. Samus loses to snake.....period. Sure you can out-spam him but all he needs to do is walk, power shield and begin to press the A button in any direction and u lose. Your ONY hope is to get him ABOVE you(which is hard) and bait the air dodges like noid said.
 
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I do wanna side with No-idea a little bit here.


Since u said we didnt have to perfectly SDI, Peach DOES have a 42%(maybe 48%) combo on samus(full dair, FF u air, u tilt). Yea its not 50 but its close enough. Illmatic(when hes thinkin right) can play grounded with glidetoss-jab or grab and never go in the air. THAT makes the MU turn REALLY REALLY hard. Noid is also right about how alot of people complain about snake(for example) but some mid tier MUs are almost just as hard. An extremely campy toon links or fox are good examples
Yeah but I'm general going along with if you SDI to some extent, where we appear above or behind Peach, she therefore, can only do a single aerial and no follow ups afterwards. She does have a combo, but not above 30% with SDI. 42 is correct with no SDI.


As for snake, i dont really wanna comment cause ive played razer for over 2 years now. Samus loses to snake.....period. Sure you can out-spam him but all he needs to do is walk, power shield and begin to press the A button in any direction and u lose. Your ONY hope is to get him ABOVE you(which is hard) and bait the air dodges like noid said.
This.
 

NO-IDea

Smash Lord
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You play Calzorz, best in EU. I play Candy, top five Snakes in US and crew mate Takeover, top ten in MD/VA. Calzorz being top in EU pales in comparison to US.

Double d-air-> u-air already does 35% from 0%. If you SDI the first d-air, n-air u-air is still a guaranteed chain. If you count the turnip that starts in the approach, that's an extra +6%.

These are guaranteed. Are you for real? Do your Peaches not combo?

I'm back and calling all you *****s out on your bull****.
 
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You play Calzorz, best in EU. I play Candy, top five Snakes in US and crew mate Takeover, top ten in MD/VA. Calzorz being top in EU pales in comparison to US.

Double d-air-> u-air already does 35% from 0%.
Your lack of knowledge is outstanding.

I don't see Candy getting those top places. Calz recently went to BBI, got 7th out of 130 or so, and 5th in doubles. Then got 5th out of 70 in Singles at BiB and 1st in doubles. Candy is debatably a top 5 Snake, Calzorz IS europe's best Snake. Get your facts right hun.

SDI the first SDI and go behind Peach, take another 13% from like the 5% you got from SDI'ing the Dair, thats 18, she can't follow up. If you are seriously getting hit by double dair, you really need to play a different game. May I recommend Brawl+?

If you SDI the first d-air, n-air u-air is still a guaranteed chain. If you count the turnip that starts in the approach, that's an extra +6%.
Turnip does NOT combo into things, and no, it isnt a guaranteed chain. We're playing brawl, not melee.

These are guaranteed. Are you for real? Do your Peaches not combo?

I'm back and calling all you *****s out on your bull****.
No, they are not. Are you for real? Can you SDI?

I'm here and telling you to sit down.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
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This is situation is really juicy! This is the first time ive seen No-Idea/KJ throw personal and professional punches at each other( it makes me happy). WORLD HOBO 3 is March 18-20 in Houston Tx so im asking you guys(im on my knees in the begging position) to PLEASE come to this and lets not only have the biggest gathering of top samus player but also settle some ****. We got Razer(top 3 snake) and Illmatic(top 3 peach) and several other MUs we can settle(im sure we differ on alot). PLUS, we can all finally ditto till we die. i will provide tansport and housing and let u into all events for free. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!!!!!







As for the peach thing, if she catches u off guard with that dair **** then yea 42-50 is POSSIBLE(though 42 is more likely). But i have literally SEEN characters nearly teleport out of harms way after being hit just once with an attack(kosmos vs gnes) if u SDI correctly. As for snake, i gotta side with no-idea on this one. I really think USA snakes are better.


EDIT: i dont wanna be an a-hole but turnip DOES combo into things. Glide toss to jab IS a combo and DOES work. Now if u are talking about obscene combos....then i agree with you.
 
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Yeah I was talking about obscene things like dair, turnips to jabs and grabs and stuff work definatly. I don't agree with US snakes beating Calzorz, but that's just a different opinion on the matter.

It's a very good idea if I'm perfectly honest, if you can 100% get me the transport and housing, I'll definatly be down for that provided my funds don't fall through the roof like they did last time :/.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
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It's a very good idea if I'm perfectly honest, if you can 100% get me the transport and housing, I'll definatly be down for that.
Yes. I guarantee/promise/confirm/swear that i will be you and no-idea's personal chauffeur. This means i will pick you up and take you wherever u need to go at w/e time u need it for free. Housing with me will be free. Singles/doubles/low tier will be free as well. All you guys gotta pay for is food and plane ticket. Thats it.
 

NO-IDea

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Facts were all correct. EU metagame pales in comparison to US.

Turnip combos into many things. Without perfect shielding, it can be a guaranteed grab if glide tossed into range. Jab 1 will outprioritize up+b OoS. Getting hit by the turnip makes things worst when you consider the hit stun of turnip on top of Peach standing in front of you suffering no lag whatsoever.

Peach is devastating from percents 0-20% in racking damage and applying the proper follow-ups. The only thing that would possibly stop a Peach player from performing this is lack of execution (tech skill). Afterwards, she can camp with turnips and use them as openings.

You've literally refuted nothing in my argument. US>EU? Correct. Candy being top 5 and Calzorz being best? So? I'd rank them the same in skill level. If you want to defend Calzorz so much, then I'd maybe put him higher, but the skill level difference wouldn't be significant to tournament placings.

Not understanding frame data and options both characters have? That's not my problem.

Not understanding what SDI is? Left or right SDI can be followed by a second d-air. Up SDI guarantees u-air as a follow-up, since you understandably avoid the last hitbox on d-air and you lack frame advantage to pull out any aerial before the u-air. You don't SDI down.

I have no idea when you came to the conclusion that SDI makes Peach's d-air follow-up at early percents useless, or when you thought air dodging->z-air beats glide toss (as stated in the Celestial Archives a while ago), but your idea of the Peach MU is ridiculous. What use is understanding Samus as a character when you don't understand other characters when you play them?
 
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Facts were all correct. EU metagame pales in comparison to US.
Gluttony beat Ally. Whats your point?

Turnip combos into many things. Without perfect shielding, it can be a guaranteed grab if glide tossed into range. Jab 1 will outprioritize up+b OoS. Getting hit by the turnip makes things worst when you consider the hit stun of turnip on top of Peach standing in front of you suffering no lag whatsoever.
Correct

Peach is devastating from percents 0-20% in racking damage and applying the proper follow-ups. The only thing that would possibly stop a Peach player from performing this is lack of execution (tech skill). Afterwards, she can camp with turnips and use them as openings.
Afterwards, she can camp with turnips
You've pretty much screwed yourself over here.

You've literally refuted nothing in my argument. US>EU? Correct. Candy being top 5 and Calzorz being best? So? I'd rank them the same in skill level. If you want to defend Calzorz so much, then I'd maybe put him higher, but the skill level difference wouldn't be significant to tournament placings.
I brung him up because you used Candy and Takeover as your options, in order to defend myself, I had to bring up Calzorz. Now, would you be so kind as to give me some tournament placings from them? Preferably within the last 6 months?

Not understanding frame data and options both characters have? That's not my problem.
Sorry hun. Tried and tested everything that Peach can do to Samus, we can SDI every dair follow up she has and take NO damage from it (see Mr.Doom SDI). Of course however, that is highly impracticle, so I'll just go along with her getting us with a uair, that's around 20%, not 50, add on a utilt? Still not 50. Add on a turnip? STILL not 50.

Not understanding what SDI is? Left or right SDI can be followed by a second d-air. Up SDI guarantees u-air as a follow-up, since you understandably avoid the last hitbox on d-air and you lack frame advantage to pull out any aerial before the u-air. You don't SDI down.
That doesn't equal 50% my love. Now, do tell me, a combo which there is no means of escape, 100% proven and tested, which equals 50% that Peach can do to Samus.

I have no idea when you came to the conclusion that SDI makes Peach's d-air follow-up at early percents useless, or when you thought air dodging->z-air beats glide toss (as stated in the Celestial Archives a while ago),
Air dodging to zair allows us to catch the turnip so we DON'T GET HIT BY IT. SDIing Peach's dair NERFS her ability to combo us, ANY good Peach could tell you that. I even remember LanceStern's Peach combo involving 2 dairs got shot down by the Peach boards because SDI killed it.

but your idea of the Peach MU is ridiculous. What use is understanding Samus as a character when you don't understand other characters when you play them?
Your idea of brawl is ridiculous, you clearly have no idea how to play Samus and should feel bad for even trying to argue such a misguided comeback.
 

NO-IDea

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Gluttony beat Ally. Whats your point?
And Brood beat M2K. One player doesn't represent the country. Dont' claim your continent is better than U.S. because of the skills of one player.


No-Idea, what is camping?
Good question, KJ. I'm glad you asked. Camping is adopting a playstyle which serves to not dish out damage but receive as little damage as possible. It can involve projectiles but is not necessary. It can involve sitting in one place and spamming z-air and missiles if you're a campy, unskilled Samus, but it can also involve approaching via safe pokes and shield pressure.

The objective becomes implementing a brick wall in which you limit your opponent's options, drawing down to a game of reading approaches and punishing.

Can Peach camp with turnips?
Why good question! In fact that's practically how she plays her MUs against many characters! Aside from her amazing combo potential early game, her glide toss game is just as significant as Rob's ability to spam gyro and Diddy's ability to camp with bananas.

For the Samus v Peach MU, glide toss becomes her best OoS option, therefore making her shield dashing a stronger tool against Samus. It forces the Samus player to either retreat to adopt better spacing, or utilize grab. Any z-air/air dodge/missile cancel used within mid range can be repeatedly punished solely by Peach shield dashing->glide toss. The mere fact of Samus jumping immediately removes her shield option and leaves her vulnerable to Peach after the perfect shield.

Ultimately, it's an approach that inhibits many of Samus options and, given Samus anti-aerial tools, is much safer than floating.

I brung him up because you used Candy and Takeover as your options, in order to defend myself, I had to bring up Calzorz. Now, would you be so kind as to give me some tournament placings from them? Preferably within the last 6 months?
You are more than welcome to utilize the wonders of technology and use the search toolbar at the very top right on this web page to find out the tournament results of Candy and Takeover in the last 6 months. There's even an option to narrow down the time and threads where their name pops up to only Tournament Results! What a time saver.

Sorry hun. Tried and tested everything that Peach can do to Samus, we can SDI every dair follow up she has and take NO damage from it (see Mr.Doom SDI). Of course however, that is highly impracticle, so I'll just go along with her getting us with a uair, that's around 20%, not 50, add on a utilt? Still not 50. Add on a turnip? STILL not 50.
Why you are correct. Using Mr. Doom as an example is impractical, as even top international players can't SDI like he can. But you saying you can SDI out of Peach's d-air at low percents and not get chained into a string is a joke. Bring that to the Peach boards please. They'll be more than welcome to defend their character.

And ah, I see you took my example too literally. You're right, it won't always be 50%. It will never be over 50%. But to imagine a Peach not being able to string at least 24% from 0% means she needs to work on her execution. To imagine a Peach being able to apply a 40% combo is feasible. Plenty of replays on Youtube can account to that.

To imagine any Samus player being frustrated from the amount of damage she can rack in general early game, only to have to fight to take that damage back against a gay, shielding Peach is actually fairly easy. Shield is such a strong option against projectiles. Welcome to brawl. You know. The game we're talking about. Not Melee.

Air dodging to zair allows us to catch the turnip so we DON'T GET HIT BY IT.
(Revealing that you don't play patient, therefore, good players enough. Why does a Peach have to initiate? If you short hop, you already removed your shield option. All the player has to do is wait. Your scenario literally tells me the Peach threw the turnip at you prematurely instead of standing there, laughing and shielding at your z-air spam, so you ran foward to air dodge->z-air. Why the Peach would put herself in that situation, I don't know.)

SDIing Peach's dair NERFS her ability to combo us, ANY good Peach could tell you that. I even remember LanceStern's Peach combo involving 2 dairs got shot down by the Peach boards because SDI killed it.
(Revealing that if you had paid attention, LanceStern's Peach combo did get shot down, because they argued it was impractical to attempt to continue with a 2nd d-air and instead finish the string with n-air or u-air. Again, I shouldn't have to defend a character I do not main. Bring it to the Peach boards and ask them how d-air tactics work at early percents.

To summarize, you neglect to analyze the mechanics of Brawl, purposefully play in a way that has so many openings and claim it works, and then claim to have knowledge over a character when the mains of said character will argue otherwise.

And you are too lazy to do your own research. I have things to do other than post on these boards. Bring a legitimate argument to the table or don't waste my time.
 
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Yeah you're boring me, so I'll just just summarise everything you said into one word:

NO-IDea said:
Okay now that we're done with that, and I assume that you have gone off to learn how to play Samus (the Samus Guide may be a good place to start for you). We can get down to some serious tactical discussion.

Perfectly layed bombs on platforms. Do they have a use?
 

Cherry64

Smash Master
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Lets keep this Friendly guys, good topic though, IMO I'm with NOID on this one, in terms of content. Anyways yeah, keeper' friendly and in the spirit of discussion.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
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Gluttony beat Ally. Whats your point?



Correct





You've pretty much screwed yourself over here.



I brung him up because you used Candy and Takeover as your options, in order to defend myself, I had to bring up Calzorz. Now, would you be so kind as to give me some tournament placings from them? Preferably within the last 6 months?



Sorry hun. Tried and tested everything that Peach can do to Samus, we can SDI every dair follow up she has and take NO damage from it (see Mr.Doom SDI). Of course however, that is highly impracticle, so I'll just go along with her getting us with a uair, that's around 20%, not 50, add on a utilt? Still not 50. Add on a turnip? STILL not 50.



That doesn't equal 50% my love. Now, do tell me, a combo which there is no means of escape, 100% proven and tested, which equals 50% that Peach can do to Samus.



Air dodging to zair allows us to catch the turnip so we DON'T GET HIT BY IT. SDIing Peach's dair NERFS her ability to combo us, ANY good Peach could tell you that. I even remember LanceStern's Peach combo involving 2 dairs got shot down by the Peach boards because SDI killed it.



Your idea of brawl is ridiculous, you clearly have no idea how to play Samus and should feel bad for even trying to argue such a misguided comeback.
*KJ uses hydro pump*

And Brood beat M2K. One player doesn't represent the country. Dont' claim your continent is better than U.S. because of the skills of one player.




Good question, KJ. I'm glad you asked. Camping is adopting a playstyle which serves to not dish out damage but receive as little damage as possible. It can involve projectiles but is not necessary. It can involve sitting in one place and spamming z-air and missiles if you're a campy, unskilled Samus, but it can also involve approaching via safe pokes and shield pressure.

The objective becomes implementing a brick wall in which you limit your opponent's options, drawing down to a game of reading approaches and punishing.



Why good question! In fact that's practically how she plays her MUs against many characters! Aside from her amazing combo potential early game, her glide toss game is just as significant as Rob's ability to spam gyro and Diddy's ability to camp with bananas.

For the Samus v Peach MU, glide toss becomes her best OoS option, therefore making her shield dashing a stronger tool against Samus. It forces the Samus player to either retreat to adopt better spacing, or utilize grab. Any z-air/air dodge/missile cancel used within mid range can be repeatedly punished solely by Peach shield dashing->glide toss. The mere fact of Samus jumping immediately removes her shield option and leaves her vulnerable to Peach after the perfect shield.

Ultimately, it's an approach that inhibits many of Samus options and, given Samus anti-aerial tools, is much safer than floating.



You are more than welcome to utilize the wonders of technology and use the search toolbar at the very top right on this web page to find out the tournament results of Candy and Takeover in the last 6 months. There's even an option to narrow down the time and threads where their name pops up to only Tournament Results! What a time saver.



Why you are correct. Using Mr. Doom as an example is impractical, as even top international players can't SDI like he can. But you saying you can SDI out of Peach's d-air at low percents and not get chained into a string is a joke. Bring that to the Peach boards please. They'll be more than welcome to defend their character.

And ah, I see you took my example too literally. You're right, it won't always be 50%. It will never be over 50%. But to imagine a Peach not being able to string at least 24% from 0% means she needs to work on her execution. To imagine a Peach being able to apply a 40% combo is feasible. Plenty of replays on Youtube can account to that.

To imagine any Samus player being frustrated from the amount of damage she can rack in general early game, only to have to fight to take that damage back against a gay, shielding Peach is actually fairly easy. Shield is such a strong option against projectiles. Welcome to brawl. You know. The game we're talking about. Not Melee.



(Revealing that you don't play patient, therefore, good players enough. Why does a Peach have to initiate? If you short hop, you already removed your shield option. All the player has to do is wait. Your scenario literally tells me the Peach threw the turnip at you prematurely instead of standing there, laughing and shielding at your z-air spam, so you ran foward to air dodge->z-air. Why the Peach would put herself in that situation, I don't know.)



(Revealing that if you had paid attention, LanceStern's Peach combo did get shot down, because they argued it was impractical to attempt to continue with a 2nd d-air and instead finish the string with n-air or u-air. Again, I shouldn't have to defend a character I do not main. Bring it to the Peach boards and ask them how d-air tactics work at early percents.

To summarize, you neglect to analyze the mechanics of Brawl, purposefully play in a way that has so many openings and claim it works, and then claim to have knowledge over a character when the mains of said character will argue otherwise.

And you are too lazy to do your own research. I have things to do other than post on these boards. Bring a legitimate argument to the table or don't waste my time.
*noid uses http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWjtKKYrW-w *
 
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Not a fan of the SS series, so I'll gladly have hydro pump :3.

Now quoting this again because you two kind of Ninja'd:

Perfectly layed bombs on platforms. Do they have a use?
When the bomb doesn't bounce, but simply stays in a position until it explodes.
 

DelxDoom

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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@Peach vs Samus MU.
Peach's ftilt is really dumb


@personal attacks
ugh

@everything else
WAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 

Dragonmaster_Omega

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Just call me Omega
i swear KJ and Noid. You are both idiots. You shouldn't be using Samus in the first place. None of us should. We are just trashy players playing a very trashy character. <3 you all

Btw, going to get Metroid: Other M here in a bit. I just know it is going to be so much fun =3
 

Dragonmaster_Omega

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Just call me Omega
Why must I be the one to try and bring back logic to a board of half-wits? If any of us had half a brain we would all drop Samus and pick a better character because ANY character is better than Samus...but, as i am sure everyone else is, we just can't get enough of the masochistic experience we all get from playing a terrible character like Samus.

And to answer the bomb question, considering that bombs are next to useless next to usmash, almost anything involving them is next to useless <3.
But i guess it could be used as a timed trap. Like a wannabe snake nade, but you know, 1000000000x useless compared to nades.

Interesting thing about bombs though, i remember it once saving my ***. Was playing this TL and we were both at 120+, but i had about 200+ damage. We were right next to each other near the left ledge of FD, he was nearer to the ledge. I laid a bomb and it landed between us. He ftilts and gets slight slowdown from clanking from the bomb but was about to continue through as the move was going through the bomb explosion, i fsmash and it hits him first, despite the fact that he would have hit me if not for the bomb, so a bombs useage is like art, its beauty is in the eye of the beholder...but not many people give a **** about it =3
 

Cherry64

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I honestly expected NOID to be more mature than that cocky message he made insulting all the samus players...

What happened to you?
He didn't insult everyone, mainly KJ and LP, possibly me though as well, either way, I agree with most of what he says, we all use z air like it's our religion and we are getting predictable. just what happens, the more of us there is, the harder it is for xyro to win, we get people used to our shenanigans, and they are all easy as hell to avoid, and even easier to punish. Samus ditto's really show how bad z air is :p Perfect shield dashing is literally her worst friend and EVERY char can do it.
 
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He didn't insult everyone, mainly KJ and LP, possibly me though as well, either way, I agree with most of what he says, we all use z air like it's our religion and we are getting predictable. just what happens, the more of us there is, the harder it is for xyro to win, we get people used to our shenanigans, and they are all easy as hell to avoid, and even easier to punish. Samus ditto's really show how bad z air is :p Perfect shield dashing is literally her worst friend and EVERY char can do it.
You see the problem with this whole thing, is that I'm actually getting respectable placements, so is Xyro.

Also let me just see if I read that right:

Samus ditto's really show how bad z air is
Samus ditto's really show how bad z air is
Samus ditto's really show how bad z air is
*shoots self*
 

NO-IDea

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I honestly expected NOID to be more mature than that cocky message he made insulting all the samus players...

What happened to you?
@KJ: Samus has a decent roll from get-up. 50% from d-throw tech chase? Stop being so predictable.
I meant for only that sentence to be directed to KJ regarding the Snake MU. The argument about the Peach MU following was also directed to KJ. The rest before and after were directed towards the general public and not any individual player. Consider it a call for change and smarter gameplay instead of complaints and cries of bad character design when players aren't even utilizing Samus to her full potential.

I merely wish to state how ill-informed mains are as to what their characters are capable and incapable of doing. There are several Samus players (not particularly mains) that don't visit these boards but know more and/or play better than the Samus mains here. That's a problem.

If you look at the community and their views of Samus, there are two groups: those that know Samus and her MUs and those that don't. You look at replays and you wonder "Why isn't Player A using this option when it's so useful or why isn't Player B punishing this approach properly?" For example, I saw a replay where a Fox player couldn't handle z-air spam. Are you serious? A character designed to bait and punish, has fast ground speed and an amazing hyphen smash can't punish z-air? LOL. Practically every dash attack in this game can punish z-air if you pressure Samus to retreat with shield and space well.

The few people that do have an in-depth understanding of Samus do not care to continue use of her because they usually already main a character that is known to outperform her. But ask around. There are players that use Samus for leisure and can probably help you in improving your gameplay.
 

Xyro77

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I meant for only that sentence to be directed to KJ regarding the Snake MU. The argument about the Peach MU following was also directed to KJ. The rest before and after were directed towards the general public and not any individual player. Consider it a call for change and smarter gameplay instead of complaints and cries of bad character design when players aren't even utilizing Samus to her full potential.

I merely wish to state how ill-informed mains are as to what their characters are capable and incapable of doing. There are several Samus players (not particularly mains) that don't visit these boards but know more and/or play better than the Samus mains here. That's a problem.

If you look at the community and their views of Samus, there are two groups: those that know Samus and her MUs and those that don't. You look at replays and you wonder "Why isn't Player A using this option when it's so useful or why isn't Player B punishing this approach properly?" For example, I saw a replay where a Fox player couldn't handle z-air spam. Are you serious? A character designed to bait and punish, has fast ground speed and an amazing hyphen smash can't punish z-air? LOL. Practically every dash attack in this game can punish z-air if you pressure Samus to retreat with shield and space well.

The few people that do have an in-depth understanding of Samus do not care to continue use of her because they usually already main a character that is known to outperform her. But ask around. There are players that use Samus for leisure and can probably help you in improving your gameplay.
Hay Noidz, imma gonna cawl u out dawg on some of dis fanzy **** u ben spoutin'

You tink yo so tuff so where b dem replayz of awl dis raype? Da lazt ting i remmemmbur is u gettin dat *** whoop bye dat Ronald Mc Donald in dat parkin lotz behind Pizza Hutz. U tawlk da talk but im waytin for dat walk too, bro.

Peece!


PS: u got dat cheeze on da knees statuz
 

NO-IDea

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,690
Location
Baltimore, MD
lol,

Truth is, haven't used Samus competitively since April. I've been using Shiek in all tournaments I've entered to win. But nah dawg, I'm back in since the semester started and I'm in my productive phase.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
lol,

Truth is, haven't used Samus competitively since April. I've been using Shiek in all tournaments I've entered to win. But nah dawg, I'm back in since the semester started and I'm in my productive phase.
.......................since april?


R.I.P No-Idea
 

Darkshadow7827

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
1,532
Location
Lower reaches of Shelbrunkand
I merely wish to state how ill-informed mains are as to what their characters are capable and incapable of doing. There are several Samus players (not particularly mains) that don't visit these boards but know more and/or play better than the Samus mains here. That's a problem.

If you look at the community and their views of Samus, there are two groups: those that know Samus and her MUs and those that don't. You look at replays and you wonder "Why isn't Player A using this option when it's so useful or why isn't Player B punishing this approach properly?" For example, I saw a replay where a Fox player couldn't handle z-air spam. Are you serious? A character designed to bait and punish, has fast ground speed and an amazing hyphen smash can't punish z-air? LOL. Practically every dash attack in this game can punish z-air if you pressure Samus to retreat with shield and space well.
I'm not gonna lie this is kinda true. I feel like we/some of us(?) use Zair like Snake's nade. It's a general part of our metagame, we just need to not be predictable with it, especially since it has less options compared to nades. I feel like it's NOT just our lack of knowledge when it comes to MUs - it also involves other people's lack of Samus MU. I've given better players than me trouble by spamming zair. I bet when I play them more, they'll understand my/Samus' options more though. I actually did play a player (DDD haha) where he just PS zair and missiles all day.

Also, NOID you drop Samus or just stop playing her for the time being?
 

NO-IDea

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,690
Location
Baltimore, MD
Oh relax. I entered 2-3 tournies without Samus. Mostly because I haven't been giving Sheik. enough attention. Silly Rob mains telling me what to rest in peace.

@Darkshadow: Dank can tell you for a fact that I consistently 2-stock his Lucario with Samus. School starts next Tuesday for you right? How fun.
 

Darkshadow7827

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
1,532
Location
Lower reaches of Shelbrunkand
Oh relax. I entered 2-3 tournies without Samus. Mostly because I haven't been giving Sheik. enough attention. Silly Rob mains telling me what to rest in peace.

@Darkshadow: Dank can tell you for a fact that I consistently 2-stock his Lucario with Samus. School starts next Tuesday for you right? How fun.
Sure does, haha. I still want to play you :) If Northeastern still does their weekly thursday Smashfest, I'll get to play Dank. Not sure though, since I wasn't too aware of it last year. I guess, I'll just PM on facebook.
 

Cherry64

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
3,029
Location
Southern Alberta,Canada
NNID
Willzasarus
Switch FC
SW-2905-1228-1895
Not bad, just over used :p
Samus can su[er missle, just standing and it usually catches other z airing samus' off guard. brutes I know :p
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
4,285
Sorry but when in good lord of heavens name would you EVER need to know that information? You won't see Samus on Samus in a tournament match. Then again, I do hate the ditto with a passion :/.
 

NO-IDea

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,690
Location
Baltimore, MD
Because it applies to every MU. It's how you space against Marth and any character that has short hopping as an approach.
 

Dragonmaster_Omega

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
397
Location
Just call me Omega
Use that against MK, I'd love to see what happens.
I can answer that. You lose.

You hate the Samus ditto? I love it personally, at least from the dittos i got from cherry i loved it =3

I hear a lot of people say that dittos don't prove skill with a character, i have always never understood why. I follow the same mindset as Xyro in that dittos ARE the true test of skill with a character, but that is just me =3
 

NO-IDea

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,690
Location
Baltimore, MD
Sigh.

What MK short hops as an approach? It doesn't work in every MU. It applies.

Dittos show you know the MU of your own character. It's not a true test of skill. A MK that's the best in MK dittos won't win a tournament. An MK that's the best in a majority of MUs will.

(Examples include MKs who have lost to mid-low tiers and/or uncommon high tiers. Look at MLG.)

I wouldn't say being the best at Samus dittos is a worthless title. It just doesn't have as much merit as being the best Samus at other MUs. Although usually owning both titles go hand in hand.
 
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