Shoot First, Ask Questions Later: The Samus Tactical Discussion & Q&A Thread

[ZeroL]

@ Cherry, I'm not Quiksilver.

I don't really agree with Omega, Samus won't break mid or even mid-low. Even Zelda has more potential then Samus. And that tip about being positive about Samus, IYM!. It doesn't really work, it'll just make me think I can kill a bit or something like that. It could work for others though.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

If you read my post i say she MAY have the potential to break at most low-mid. I also said that the chance of Samus breaking Mid is extremely small, if not non-existant. I wont go on to say if one character has more potential than another because that is just flame bait

A positive mindset does in fact work. The more positive you are the less frustrated you get. And when you get frustrated, you make more mistakes. Mindset and overall mental attitude plays a huge role in playstyle and easy of access to more advanced strategy formation and analyzing the opponent.

 

[ZeroL]

Positive mindsets do work, positive thinking about a crappy character does not. Once you've accepted your character is crap and start to think of ways to go around them you'll see what a character can do to its full potential.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

That was the whole point of my statement >.>

 

[ZeroL]

Then we have come to an agreement. :3

 

[IYM!]

@Smash G O D: no te preocupes, puedo entenderte muy bien, tu español es bueno solo deves aprender algunos detalles

I guess there's keyboards are the same as those here, If so, you must hold down's on the button on the right side of the "P" buttom and pres the and press the vowel you want to tick, (sorry to answere late, problems with my internet )

 

[KillerJawz]

Please refrain from speaking in languages other then English everybody.

People can think positivly about a character and it may or may not do them well, it is not set in stone it will change the outcome of their character, but rather allow them to play the character in the style as they see fit.

 

[Zatchiel]

What's Samus' worst aerial? Plz don't tell me Nair...

 

[Noobicidal]

What's Samus' worst aerial? Plz don't tell me Nair...

It's Fair.

 

[IYM!]

what is the best throw of samus??? i mean, what is the most usefull to start a combo?

 

[Zatchiel]

It's Dthrow, IYM!.
Unless you meant something like a gimp setup.

 

[KillerJawz]

Her worst aerial in terms of actually doing something, is Nair.

Fair has follow ups and deals 18% with all hits connecting.
Uair has follow ups and can deal a heafty amount, also has extreme priority.
Zair....
Bair lacks a good hitbox, but does about 14 or so % and is her strongest aerial in terms of killing.
Dair has a nice hitbox but lacks priority and deals around 14-15%.
Nair is quick on startup and is a good combo breaker. However, it lacks knockback so you will be punished for it at lower percentages. Whatever gimps this move pulls off, zair does 10x better. Nair does a mere 7 or so % (not sure on this one).

Her best throw for follow ups is dthrow, her best throw for GTFO options is infact Uthrow, her best gimp setups are either f or b throw.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

From a psychological standpoint, having a good mindset about it will help you play at the top of your game. If you are facing a tough opponent but keeping a good mindset, you are going to think of ALL your options because you won't be panicing at the situation at hand. But yes, i do see your point. I like using nair actually. As i stated in the tech compilation thread, in one SH, you can input to aerials out of bair, nair, and uair. I find nair the most useful because it is very quick and people will not usually expect it. bair>nair makes a rather nice mindgame especially if you sweet-spot the bair because it give you a higher chance of shield-poking with nair. But that is just my opinion

 

[IYM!]

@Killer Jawz: her Dair??? lacks in priority??, really?, are you sure?? , i always thought that move has a good priority

PD: whats mean GTFO???

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

GTFO means Get the F*** Out.

Dair has average priority tbh. It is just that the move has a big range and it lasts a long time. Like seriously, Samus dair has the most horizontal range for a spike in the entire game.

 

[KillerJawz]

Her Dair gets outprioritised by quite literally anything, it's just because the hitbox is so big it outranges moves so it only looks like it's decent.

GTFO = Get the **** out.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

I have found that dair tends to clank with a lot of other aerial moves and trades hits with others. But when it comes to recoveries, dair seems to hit everyone out of theirs if you space properly and the recovery doesn't have invincibility frames on startup. Hell, i have hit plenty of Marth, Mario, and even a good number of MKs out of their Up-Bs.
But, then again, what do i know =3

 

[Zatchiel]

I'm pretty sure Dair had a disjoint, and i normally try not to use Dair while i'm onstage unless i'm looking to sneak in a Bair, Uair, or Screw Attack. It's still a pretty bad move outside of gimping and shouldn't be spammed too often, imo.

@KJ: I like to mix Nair into my combos a lot, due to it's lasting hitbox, but i only like using it offstage, or when the opponent is @ prob. 80+ %'s or something...
I probably should use it a bit less, but i normally takes the place of Zair in close combat, right below FF-Uair and Screw Attack OoS.
I'm going to assume we don't have too many follow ups after Nair at low %'s, and rather, we get punished. I'd rather GTFO of there and keep my distance a little better with Zair and Seeker Missles.

 

[Cherry64]

Her Dair gets outprioritised by quite literally anything, it's just because the hitbox is so big it outranges moves so it only looks like it's decent.

GTFO = Get the **** out.

Yeah what KJ said. It has baad priority, I get knocked out of it by a lot of stuff.

it works pretty well against UpB's but I'd actually choose Nair if they are in their momentum part of the UpB

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

The only time i get hit out of dair is when the opponent uses something quicker and thus hits me first, or i am facing a sword wielding opponent

 

[IYM!]

Nair is usefull for combos and dont have a bad priority, isint good, but also isnt bad, but the best atribute of that move is the speed, that kick comes to fast IMO,


about the Utilt of samus, i notificed, sometimes, when i do that move and conect it when th leg of samus is down (the hit when samus finish her move) appears an aura (when we hit an opponent whit a meteor or spike in the ground).

after this, when samus touch the ground.
That hit is a meteor???'

 

[Darkshadow7827]

@Smash G O D: no te preocupes, puedo entenderte muy bien, tu español es bueno solo deves aprender algunos detalles

don't worry, I can understand you(?) very well, your spanish is good only -something- -somthing- other details, smiley face.
Haha, I took spanish for 2 years in high school but I forgot some of the words, infinitives, and other definitions. Also IYM, a GTFO move is one that will give you space and give you breathing room.

Also, I didn't know dair has good horizontal space for a spike. Interesting.

 

[Zatchiel]

IYM! stuff

......
If you ever overrate Nair...

And i wasn't too sure Utilt could spike in Brawl...
Meh...

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

No it isn't. Utilt has 3 different launch angles. The first is when the opponent is touching the ground. It sends them into the ground and the "aura" is the shockwave from the bounce that sends them straight up. The second angle is when they are in the air in front of Samus. Note that the downward angle that utilt hits with on a grounded opponent will NEVER send them down if they are in the air, even when hanging on the ledge. The third is almost directly above samus as she is starting the utilt and her leg is at the highest point, and that sends them backwards and again, only takes place on aerial characters.
Note that all angles have the same amount of knockback, the downward angle appears to have the least knckback because it sends the opponent into the ground, then up into the air, thus the knockback is redirected and appears to be lessened

@Darkshadow: It does, as i said, have the LONGEST horizontal range for a spike in the game. Fun-fact, wolf has the longest vertical spike in the game

 

[LanceStern]

You don't need a secondary. It's possible to do, it's just not easy whatsoever.

Shoot weak plasma shots to disrupt his lasers. Or airdodge in and zair. Or approach and takes the shots and either instant dash attack or ftilt him.

It's a really tough matchup, especially if they are shooting and running, but you CAN do it with that technique there, and some REALLY smart gimps/reads on his phantasms. The matchup is all about knowing when he's going to phantasm and punishing it. And forcing him to phantasm.

 

[Zatchiel]

I like to use Utilt on an aerial opponent as a KO move. It also counters Ledge Jumps and Ledge hop recoveries, and it can edge-guard very well up close. Zair and CS work better after Utlit's range.

 

[IYM!]

don't worry, I can understand you(?) very well, your spanish is good only -something- -somthing- other details, smiley face.
Haha, I took spanish for 2 years in high school but I forgot some of the words, infinitives, and other definitions. Also IYM, a GTFO move is one that will give you space and give you breathing room.

Man, your spanish is good, and thanks for teachme the uses of GTFO

No it isn't. Utilt has 3 different launch angles. The first is when the opponent is touching the ground. It sends them into the ground and the "aura" is the shockwave from the bounce that sends them straight up. The second angle is when they are in the air in front of Samus. Note that the downward angle that utilt hits with on a grounded opponent will NEVER send them down if they are in the air, even when hanging on the ledge. The third is almost directly above samus as she is starting the utilt and her leg is at the highest point, and that sends them backwards and again, only takes place on aerial characters.
Note that all angles have the same amount of knockback, the downward angle appears to have the least knckback because it sends the opponent into the ground, then up into the air, thus the knockback is redirected and appears to be lessened

aah, thanks, Wow, i have to learn very much yet with samus,
about Utilt, is pretty easy conect it, with the highest part, SH>Uair>land>Utilit or jump into the stage, fair > Utilt , is pretty easy and is a very powerfull move, i think the strongest move in her moveset

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Samus stongest move damage wise is technically CS. In terms of knockback...CS. If we aren't counting specials, then usmash is the most damaging percent wise if all hits connect and knockback wise, i would say either fsmash or dtilt

 

[KillerJawz]

Samus stongest move damage wise is technically CS. In terms of knockback...CS.

Try again.

It's up angled Fsmash.

You don't need a secondary.

Yes you do.

It's possible to do

No it isn't.

Shoot weak plasma shots to disrupt his lasers.

Not a good idea.

Or airdodge in and zair.

Nor is that.

 

[Zatchiel]

Dsmash has more Base Knockback than Fsmash, but i wasn't too sure about dtilt...
I'd say pre-full CS is her strongest, Usmash is her most damaging(provided all hits land, of course)

Edit: Nvm, Full CS = Most Damaging.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Try again.

It's up angled Fsmash.

I was comparing a full CS to a uncharged fsmash... =3

Owait...you may be right >.>

 

[KillerJawz]

I am right. I did quite a few tests on her killing power way back in early 09.

 

[Zatchiel]

Pre-full CS is stronger than uncharged Up angled Fsmash, it just comes out slower and has a bit more cooldown.

 

[KillerJawz]

This isn't Wario's fart we're talking about here, she doesn't gain any sort of knockback like that. Fully charged charge shot is stronger then pre full.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

I am right. I did quite a few tests on her killing power way back in early 09.

Let me get this straight, one of our main killing tools and perhaps one of the strongest projectiles in the game is outshined by our second to worst smash with HORRID range?
Oh boy, we are in some deep **** >.>

 

[KillerJawz]

It may be one of the strongest, but as far as projectiles go, charge shot is terrible.

 

[Zatchiel]

This isn't Wario's fart we're talking about here, she doesn't gain any sort of knockback like that. Fully charged charge shot is stronger then pre full.

....
I can assure you on near any instance where the opponent is past 100% or so, Pre-full is stronger than Full. It just does less damage, comes out slower(on the ground), and has less dramatic hitlag.

 

[KillerJawz]

Well I have just tested that theory, using both fully charged and precharged. Fully charged killed Jiggs at 103, Near fully charged killed around 110.

Thoughts?

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

@KJ: Lol i was refering to damage wise ect. I know how bad it is =3

@LP: I think you are coming from the standpoint that it is harder to DI because of the lessened hitlag correct? Otherwise, pre-full CS is in no way stronger than Full CS

 

[KillerJawz]

@KJ: Lol i was refering to damage wise ect. I know how bad it is =3

In terms of knockback...CS.

You were saying?