Sheikah Training: Know Your Surroundings Sheik Stage Discussion~Lylat Cruise

[Dcold]

Lol, how does the OP look, agreements/disagreements?

 

[stealth3654]

I like how the OP is organized.

I guess you could strike FD against Pika, but I think it's all about personal preference. On FD, you have GR > DACUS on Pika iirc, but you don't have any platforms to avoid being grabbed with.

 

[Dcold]

Thank you, and yeah against Pika it's a tradeoff of what you feel more comfortable with i would say.

 

[Dcold]

New Stage Yoshi's Island [ssbb] Discuss
You Guys Know The Drill
Kthxbai

 

[Zankoku]

You know, when it comes to the rest of the neutrals, I really don't have much of an opinion. I guess I'd strike this against Lucario since the walls give him stronger recovery options, and Wario since the top platform has a terrible habit of getting in the way of grab release KOs.

 

[Dcold]

Actually i would say yeah, strike this against Lucario and, Wario i didn't even think about.
But also, i heard this is pretty good against D3. I've played some on here and it works decently. If he's on the platform we can destroy him from underneath. Also since the stage is smaller + no CG it works to our advantage of speed. IMO i'd say try and get this as the starting stage if you can't start on BF. Maybe even a CP is nothing else is better.

 

[rathy Aro]

STRIKE (and possibly ban) THIS AGAINST DK! If you're playing dk on this stage, you're doing it wrong.

Generally I don't like this stage as sheik. I find it easier to run away on FD, BF (because of platforms), and Smashville for camping and I find BF a better place to deal with someone who out camps me. I pretty much always strike this or lylat first.

 

[-Mars-]

I hate this stage because of the stupid recovery deaths amongst other things.......but i've found that Pit's recovery is pretty easy to handle on this stage since he can't go underneath and play his stupid mindgames. Shy Guys also get in the way of his arrows and stuff. Put this down as a maybe against Pit? what do you guys think?

Also, I love Lylat. If you're playing Pika or Icies the three platforms aid a lot for platform camping and this stage also ***** the 3 spacies(not so much Fox but it still weakens his recovery).Lylat is one of my favorite stages *shrugs*.

 

[ddonaldo]

nothing we can really do about it but that random platform that appears can hurt us. On several occasions I have tried to recover using the chain only for that platform to instantly appear underneath me and cause me to do a grounded chain instead. And due to the massive start up and ending lag usually results in me getting KOed

 

[Dcold]

I love Lylat i was just talking about how much i love it today. I just love that stage
Why ban this against DK? What can he do here that's so amazing to ban this stage/strike ths against him? Pit i can see taking him here. Plus he can ONLY recover from the sides leaving him open to getting gimped.

 

[-Mars-]

DK can do some stupid stuff with his up b where he's invincible or some dumb stuff like that.

 

[Dcold]

Oh that, invincible DK Spin thing. Sonic can do that too, making him un-chain camp-able. I knew that, but it's only from the edge. If you keep him on the meat of the stage you can punish him pretty good. Still being a bad matchup for us though. I don't think it's a BAN stage, but a strike if you really feel uncomfortable.

 

[-Mars-]

Large characters with a lot of power I tend to like to have large stages where I can camp them at. I would think cramped stages like this would benefit DK more than us imo.

 

[stealth3654]

I guess if you ever play a Ness or Ganondorf in tournament, you can counter pick this stage.

I usually strike this against Wario because of the silly platform in the middle of the stage.

CP this stage against Pit sounds like a good idea. I think I would counter pick this stage against Diddy since shy guys get in the way of his banana spam.

Would the uneven ground of the stage let us GR>DACUS on GaW from around the middle of the stage towards the ledge?

I don't know about you guys, but the random ghost platforms help me recover. If you're not going to make it to the stage, aim for the ghost platform.

 

[Judo777]

I personally think YI is sheiks worst neutral. Most because if you vanish to where you will barely land on the stage and someone is on the ledge you can slide off the slope and die its really dumb. Also yea that ghost platform messes me up so much when i try to chain to the stage. But in spite of all this this stage isnt that bad for sheik and infact its can do like wall jumps to back airs on this stage instead of doing that b-reverse needle cancel stuff. Also wall jumps to fair for gimping is nice.

Um yea dont take DK to this stage cause yea he has that stupid invincible spinning kong on this stage and its a good stage for him all around actually. The slants make it easier for him to do lagless recoveries too. I think any of the other neutrals would be better for him. Also Yoshi is pretty good on this stage he can but slam the slants and do some crazy sliding shennanigans not to mention he can actually combo butslam stars into fsmash on the edge of the stages. Also this is a great Lucario stage so dont go there either. GW has a weird instant stand up trick from the ledges of this stage.

Yea i would definitely take pit here makes gimping way easier and i would take D3 like you guys said earlier cause the slants also make it harder for him to tech chase us. Also not a terrible place to take rob because gimping rob is easier too even tho i know its hard to gimp rob it is doable and now he cant fly under the stage. Also his top is harder to control because of the uneven ground.

On a side note i would not recommend taking pika to Lylat thats like one of pikas best stages period lol I always strike that first.

 

[stealth3654]

If Falco CGs you and spikes you off the ledge, you can wall jump to get back above the ledge.

Also, about DK, aside from his up B invincibility thing, Shy guys slow down DK's smashes and his donkey punch. So if you were planing to spot dodge and punish, you will get hit.

 

[Dcold]

Oh yeah i CP this on Ness too, the side hinders his recovery

 

[stealth3654]

If you try and ledge hog Lucario on this stage, he can just wall cling then wall jump back to the stage.

 

[Dcold]

I'm pretty sure everyone knows this is Lucario's best neutral, since he can basically recover from anywhere here. This is definitely a strike against him. Seems like you guys say this is a strike against Donkey Kong as well. Counter-Pick this against Pit, Ness, and Lucas maybe? I'm gonna update the OP either Saturday or Sunday.

 

[stealth3654]

I think YI should be a strike against Lucas. Shy guys don't affect him like they do Ness, and the platform negates our GR>DACUS.

 

[thexsunrosered]

If you are recovering from above, you can Dair and aim under the ledge, possibly making them go out to try to edge hog/guard you, but you will usually snap to the wall in a wall stick, and as soon as you have an opportunity or their invincibility frames run out you can capitalize. Also, there are two different kinds of wall jumps, horizontal and vertical. Horizontal wall jumps are the ones I'm sure most of you are familiar with, vertical are different, and much more applicable to this stage. While wall clinging, instead of hitting forward+a direction to wall jump, just hit up. Sheik will bound straight up like a fiend, which also helps my Dair->wall cling recovery technique.

Lylat is also one of my favorites too. It screws up recoveries as well as, just like Yoshis, has crawl dashing=win :]

 

[Dcold]

I forgot to mention, on this stage, if you are at the edge and you shield Ike's Aether [Up B whatever] while he is recovering, he slides off the stage too far to recover.He goes flying left or right [Depend on which ledge you do it on]. Basically instant KO. So this could be a CP against him. Also maybe even Snake too, i'unno. Since he has to recover off the sides, if he doesn't he's high up. If you get him low he has to recover low, meaning we can gimp kill him easier.

I personally love YI, i don't think it's amazing for Sheik, but it's not bad imo.

 

[Dcold]

Continue discussion, really not enough information to update the OP. Continue people.

 

[-dMT-]

Yoshi's island. Ledge drop > stick to wall > come up with a bair when time is right xD

 

[stealth3654]

Falco can chain grab us longer since the stage tilts up as it moves towards the ledge.

 

[Dcold]

Didn't know that o.o Falco seems like a danger here since he can damage us more it seems. But enough to strike? I don't think so.

 

[Judo777]

Didn't know that o.o Falco seems like a danger here since he can damage us more it seems. But enough to strike? I don't think so.

No that aside YI is one of falcos worst neutrals

 

[Dcold]

C'mon people just a little more.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Fine. -_-

YI can be a good stage for Sheik if used properly.
I like to go by the analogy that Sheik doesn't have a bad stage. Stages will both limit one option, but increase the effectiveness of another option.
YI can limit GR. It can however, make f-tilt lock more effective, give us a sliding DSmash, good wall jump and cling options and allow us to use duck more effectively.
Because of the floors unevenness you can actually lower yourself when you duck more than usual. This allows you to duck under most jab (most people's panic attacks), some f-tilt and maybe a few FSmash's.
You can also use the far right edge to send Sheik sliding by performing a duck dash.
To add to how good the slopes are for Sheik you have to look at what allows people to escape the f-tilt lock. The answer to that is by going up or down. Since you can increase the amount of down here you can possibly extend the f-tilt lock.
Last but not least, this helps Sheiks ledge stalling/planking with Bair. You can also do a kind of wall stall by clinging far below the stage.


Ban against
(mess's up your GR options)


Counter against
It can mess up either their CG's, camping or spacing game.

 

[Dcold]

Updated OP, will continue updates to it tomorow. Tomorow we start BF.

 

[stealth3654]

Battle field is a great stage for Sheik.

Platforms help our maneuverability and combos. Our up tilt and up smash hits through the side platforms. We can also do vanish tricks on this stage. The only thing that is bad about this stage is the platforms hinder our grab releases greatly.

 

[Dcold]

Sorry guys i took a break, but now i'm back start Battlefield discussion plawcks

 

[j0s3ph]

Uptilt and upsmash hits through the side platforms. You can vanish glide off the side platforms towards the center and land in a number of spots making it hard to punish. The platforms set up nicely for aerial chases but hinder needle camping.

Against snake the platforms are really his advantage for c4 and mines, as well as providing a landing place to stop or aerial strings. Ban it against him.

Generally anyone who we can GR would make this a strike as we would be wanting FD against them. Mainly MK and Wario.

For everyone else I really don't have a problem going to BF. Getting them on a platform above you gives you a big advantage and the small stage can help you gimp some chars.

 

[stealth3654]

Battle field is arguably Marth's best stage, so I would strike it against him. I would also strike this stage against Snake, Fox and Wolf (because they can platform camp), D3 (up tilt hits through platforms), and GaW because, in my opinion, he rocks on this stage.

I would CP this stage against Diddy since the platforms hinder his banana game, Pika and IC because we can platform camp, and I guess Sonic if you want to try chain camping. I'm thinking about CPing Battle Field against Olimar since he does not have a lot of options in the air and on platforms.

 

[Dcold]

Definitely Stealth, strike against Snake, and MK too, that's their best Neutral. Wario is disgusting here, he is win sauce here, for reasons i don't even know. His mobility here is amazing. Everyone we take to FD, we strike or ban against on BF

 

[Judo777]

Battle field is arguably Marth's best stage, so I would strike it against him. I would also strike this stage against Snake, Fox and Wolf (because they can platform camp), D3 (up tilt hits through platforms), and GaW because, in my opinion, he rocks on this stage.

I would CP this stage against Diddy since the platforms hinder his banana game, Pika and IC because we can platform camp, and I guess Sonic if you want to try chain camping. I'm thinking about CPing Battle Field against Olimar since he does not have a lot of options in the air and on platforms.

BF is olimars best neutral stage.

 

[Bsrk_]

I'm agreeing with the strike against Marth, MK, Wario and especially Olimar_ They have more options here than you do so unless you're overly confident about your opponent then i would suggest striking_ It's overall a decent stage for Shiek i would say due to platforms working to your advantage, u-tilt and u-smash all great options under platforms_ Pretty sure you can wall hug here (?), i've done it by accident on this stage i'm sure_

Unsure about Pit on this stage_ Good cp for ROB imo as you have more options to get underneath him_

 

[Dcold]

Would anyone actually like this thread to be renewed? Because I do think we've been talking about stages a good amount lately. I can start it up again~

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

yee this thread

I think this is a pretty useful thread that we could expand on.

Anyone else think so?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I would like to see some discussion. My schools semester is about ever so I can contribute a bit as well.