Sheikah Training: Know Your Surroundings Sheik Stage Discussion~Lylat Cruise

[-Mars-]

Lylat messes with Toon Link, Falco, and Fox's cancels on their projectiles. Also has the added benefit of hampering the spacies recovery(although ours as well).

Think Tutu took MJG here recently? You can see how he uses the stage to his advantage.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

Yee, i did take him there.

Didn't win tho

 

[-Mars-]

Its all good that guy looks pretty amazing with Tink I wanna play some top-level Tinks and see how I do.

 

[Dcold]

As do I, just to see how well I do in the MU. Tink and MK are two MUs I just find so fun, MK especially. I try to play as many good MKs as I can.

 

[C.J.]

Lylat is amazing- just make sure you know how to fight on slants.

Also, you can ALWAYS platform cancel every platform with one exception. When the ship is reentering Lylat's atmosphere (the bottom of the ship lights on fire), you can't PC any of the three platforms. Shortly after that, however, you can go back to PCing.

 

[zApollo]

What do you guys think is the easiest method of platform cancelling with sheik?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I actually like canceling with Dair, but on Lylat I will cancel with Down on the joystick.

 

[Dcold]

I always use Dair myself

 

[dettadeus]

I actually like canceling with Dair, but on Lylat I will cancel with Down on the joystick.

This.
Although, if I platform cancel with the C-stick, I always use U-Air since that's how I learned it with Ice Climbers.

 

[Dcold]

I use the C-Stick always when I'm Plat Cancelling, if you're not doing it with just the Control Stick there's really no reason to use the control stick as it leaves your fingers occupied imo. I also use Dair for ICs when PCing.

 

[zApollo]

I might try doing PCing with c-stick u-air, so that way you don't have a billion years of lag if you accidentally stuff up. Thanks guys.

I always try to avoid holding down unless buffering a spotdodge/initiating fast fall. And DACUS

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

Why do you hold down for Dacus, and I wasn't aware that it was possible to PC with anything other than control or c-stock down

 

[dettadeus]

Why do you hold down for Dacus, and I wasn't aware that it was possible to PC with anything other than control or c-stock down

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=323822
There's like, half a dozen different ways to platform cancel.

I think doing it with Fair would have the least risk for Sheik, since Fair has the shortest animation. I had been doing it with fair before I got better at doing control stick down.

Also @Dcold Lux taught me this cool frametrap for Icies that requires you to PC with U-Air. Basically, Popo PC's and Nana U-Airs, if Nana hits a shield it's a guaranteed grab. Something like that.
And Icies' Dair is just as bad as Sheik's if you mess up the PC, whereas U-Air is a lot harder to punish.

 

[Dcold]

Leave it to Lux to have a bigger bag of tricks than Santa.

 

[zApollo]

Lylat is not a good stage to bring DK to, he just commands too much of the stage control since ground pound wrecks the small stage space and the low platforms actually make his approaches safer.

 

[Zankoku]

Yoshi's Island's platform is actually really fun to use with Sheik's SH AC uair.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

I've never really had a problem with DK ground pound. Granted I've only played Will once, I probably lost game 3 on lylat, this was Apex 2010 btw. I think DK probably does pretty well against us here for most of the same reasons we have a hard time against him on Yoshi's. Just not ground pound, you can time that move to walk through the tremors and f-tilt/anything him out of it.

 

[Dcold]

No point in wasting your ban against DK on this stage, at all.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

I was more along the lines of don't CP it against him.

 

[zApollo]

The situation usually is that I ban YI against DK, for obvious reasons. He then CPs me to Lylat. I would never find myself using Lylat as a CP against DK.

Just not ground pound, you can time that move to walk through the tremors and f-tilt/anything him out of it.

What you're saying is that you can shield each hit of ground pound and still punish it? I always thought that if you're caught in pound your only option was to roll away. If I try anything OoS I end up being hit, maybe i'm just timing it wrong, and if I shield the first hit I always get pushed too far away to punish with say f-tilt.

Why do you hold down for Dacus, and I wasn't aware that it was possible to PC with anything other than control or c-stock down

I flick the control stick from south-east/south-west to north. It's probably not needed at all, but it helps me with the timing. Personal preference I guess.

 

[Dcold]

I play Will pretty often, there are way more tricks than just that. You cannot play afraid of DK, or else you're going to back yourself into a corner. At the same time, you cannot play reckless and continually go in because DK's defenses and tricks can really punish you. He's a big target that can get hit by a lot, being under DK is alright if he's shielding, if not then he can ground-pound from above you and hit you. MU is mostly about getting close to DK and making him shield, free damage from Grabs. Our offense is too much for DK to try and go hit for hit with us. Atleast with Will if you look at the like...2 videos of us playing (although we play a lot more than that lol), he waits for me to hit his shield or get put into a position where he's clearly in the advantage, or get me with a gimmick.

I don't believe I've played him on Lylat very much, but I have once I think, and it's annoying, but it's do-able. The only stages a DK will pretty much ever CP you to are: Battlefield (probably the best for us), Lylat, Delfino. If you're not banning YI, you're doing it wrong.

There's no point in shielding the ground pound and then rushing in, when you can needle him out of it, or retreat and just wait until he's done whilst charging needles. You do not always have to rush in, needles let you play more of a controlled, and punish oriented game that can be effective.

P.S anywhere that there's a ledge, DK can invinci-copter, so don't fall for that.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

The way ground pound works is that each hand sends a hotbox to it's respective side, so if you walk forward while the hand facing you us in the air you have a free approach. Sheik is fast walking or running.

 

[zApollo]

I play Will pretty often, there are way more tricks than just that. You cannot play afraid of DK, or else you're going to back yourself into a corner. At the same time, you cannot play reckless and continually go in because DK's defenses and tricks can really punish you. He's a big target that can get hit by a lot, being under DK is alright if he's shielding, if not then he can ground-pound from above you and hit you. MU is mostly about getting close to DK and making him shield, free damage from Grabs. Our offense is too much for DK to try and go hit for hit with us. Atleast with Will if you look at the like...2 videos of us playing (although we play a lot more than that lol), he waits for me to hit his shield or get put into a position where he's clearly in the advantage, or get me with a gimmick.

I don't believe I've played him on Lylat very much, but I have once I think, and it's annoying, but it's do-able. The only stages a DK will pretty much ever CP you to are: Battlefield (probably the best for us), Lylat, Delfino. If you're not banning YI, you're doing it wrong.

There's no point in shielding the ground pound and then rushing in, when you can needle him out of it, or retreat and just wait until he's done whilst charging needles. You do not always have to rush in, needles let you play more of a controlled, and punish oriented game that can be effective.

P.S anywhere that there's a ledge, DK can invinci-copter, so don't fall for that.

Many thanks for the advice, we have a strong DK player in our region and so this mu is important in particular. Could you PM/post links to said videos? I've heard the name Will before as a top-level DK player.

 

[Dcold]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvBUM2Tazw4&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45OUlYXQZZw&feature=plcp

I'm better at the MU now than I was then, but this kind of shows some of the things you should not do, that get me killed.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

I didn't want to make a new thread since my the topic is still stage related, but I was thinking we should make a list of stages that we should avoid at all cost.

Like in apex ruelset I almost always ban Frigate Orpheon, unless it's vs ICs who I ban FD against(and then lose on frigate). But it would help a bit for matchups we arent so familiar with, like I didn't know yoshi had annoying tricks on YI until I was dealing with them in my face last tournament. So we coudl use this thread to kind of make a list of the common cps that other characters use, and how to fight against them on their good stages.

 

[Dcold]

I always ban Delfino, almost regardless of the character I play tbh. I know Yoshi's love Delfino. It would be better to say the "odd" MUs we all get to play often, or at least enough to know where not to go, rather than just speculation. DK/Yoshi/Luigi are ones that I know, YI/Delfino/Frigate. Frigate's ceilings are low as hell, and I didn't realize that's a nono for weegee. But I like this idea, and I'll be down to contribute, especially since I've a tournament tomorrow lolol.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Well what's obvious about the stage? A: it tilts and that screws up our needle game as well as any characters who have projectiles. The stage is good for us though considering the platforms. They provide excellent set ups for the usmash tipper. Platforms also help us to approach but be weary, Sheik has poor tools to fight beneath her unlike characters like MK or Diddy.