Sheikah Survival Guide: A Sheik Match-up Thread

[GoadMoose]

imo this is one of the funnest matchups in the game

Seconded. The only TL that I have played is Quivo, so I don't have a whole lot of experience against them. I'd say this is an even matchup, maybe 55-45 Sheik, with Sheik on top because of her speed. I find it very difficult to gimp TL, because they usually Up-B with a bomb from directly under the ledge, cutting off the angle for needles. Quivo has said that Sheik's DACUS is usually what kills him, and he almost always kills me with an Up Smash at around 100%. Sheik's grab game is pretty good against TL too I'v found, down-throw to a sweetspotted Uair or Bair at around 120% (i think) can usually kill. Idk, once you get used to this matchup it's a lot of fun, and I don't think either character has a huge advantage over the other.

 

[choknater]

i usually just try to get tl to like 150% if i can't edgeguard him with a chain hog bair (best way to edge guard him if hes recovering low)

needles go through his projectiles anyway, if i shoot fully charged 15% or 18%, it's a good trade from the <10% that u get from his projectiles

 

[Charoo]

pressure toon link HARD

imo this is one of the funnest matchups in the game

he can do a lot of stuff and if he gets good spamming momentum, the damage can be racked really high... and then when u think u have a chance just cuz u got in... he'll start using zairs and usmashes and tilts and stuff. it's so fun though because you can actually gimp him with chain hogs and bairs. sheik heavily outspeeds him in very close range with jabs and ftilt, but he has ways to deal with you. the matchup is 55-45 or 60-40 sheik's advantage IMO but the really great tlinks will use spamming, zairs, and priority so well sometimes that it can really go either way.

sheiks, this is the funnest matchup. this and peach. u guys got this

i prefer sheik vs zss and sheik vs falco. Especially sheik vs falco. I can do that match up all day! DEHF makes me realize that Falco's chaingrab is not an evil move.

 

[iLight]

i'd like to post these 2 match's as what to do and what not to do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D77RWBdVqYM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_dZcPzxzk8

i'll post more about it tommorow when my internet connection is more stable

 

[choknater]

haha you're too good light

 

[Tristan_win]

haha you're too good light

 

[stealth3654]

What CP/bans should be use against TL?

 

[saviorslegacy]

Ah oops... I just made this match harder for us.....


bomb toss up> u-tilt> Bair (Bair does not true combo)> Bair grabs bomb> footstool> toss bomb down> draw new bomb> footstool when they combo back up from the explosion> toss new bomb down> footstool again> lnad because you go almost no where on the third footstool> dash attack> bomb> jump toss bomb down to where they roll> footstool> bomb> toss bomb down> Dair

Guess where the opponent is going to roll and then throw the bomb. If they wait to long land using Nair.

 

[Steel]

so on a scale of 1-10 how serious was that post

depending on the severity i will respond in detail

 

[saviorslegacy]

so on a scale of 1-10 how serious was that post

depending on the severity i will respond in detail

It is pretty serious... but you don't have the tech chase formula.

As far as the beginning... that is hard to do and I doubt people will get caught in a bomb up> u-tilt> Bair catch footstool. The bomb tech chase is what the is all about.

 

[Steel]

right, they wont. so how exactly is that making the match harder for sheik? lol

 

[saviorslegacy]

right, they wont. so how exactly is that making the match harder for sheik? lol

Not really harder... just gave them an option.
So I say.. not a problem right now cuz people are saying that I have to try it out at a tourney for it to work (in which case I don't main the little cat eyed booger).
So it wont be implemented into a TL's game for a while.

 

[SinkingHigher]

...

Going back to things that matter...

@stealth, The thing about TL is that he's very versatile with his projectiles. Platforms give you options when it comes to arrows and possibly boomerangs, but they allow for a LOT of bomb setups, many of which can lead to a KO.

I think it's a good idea to take him to a relatively flat level. Stay away from Battlefield, Yoshi's Island and Halberd. Take him to places like FD and Smashville. Large open areas make it easier for you to maneouver through his spam. Thick platforms like FD and Smashville make it hard for him to wall jump edgeguard and attack you through the ground. His upB has pretty bad horizontal control, so if you can get him underneath and inside FD's lip, he's pretty much gimped.

 

[legion598]

TLs main set ups are his bombs, his hook shot, and his boomerang. Perfect shield the boomerang and it wont cause anymore trouble, shield the bombs and they will bounce which could be good or bad, as for the hook shot thats a pretty tough thing to deal with, u cant out range it with ur attacks so i would probly perfect shield and jump out of it to try and punish spacing. avoid being hit by those attacks because they can easily lead to kill moves. another thing to watch out for is his Bair which sets up to alot of things and is very difficult to escape if u get hit with one rising u should be aware of all the follow ups. TL can also juggle u pretty hard. All of shieks usual strats work in this match except her DACUS which can be stopped easily by a good TL but u can still use it when the opportunity arises another good thing in this match is needles which are faster then TLs projectiles and will give u some openings. I think I would call this another 55:45-50:50 in TLs favor which seems to be an average match up for shiek

As for stages I would pick anywere without platforms but at the same time avoid large stages so smashville is a pretty good median. FD will also work as long as u dont give him room to work with

sorry for the text but I thought id throw it all out there without any foreplay

 

[-Mars-]

By the way SDI'ing out of Toon Links second hit of his forward smash is retardedly easy.......you really shouldn't ever be dying to that move.

 

[iLight]

i'd ban, brinstar, pirate ship vs toon link

I would cp to final d or orpheon. Toon links upB has a lot of landing lag, and sheik can gain a lot of stage control there, however don't counterpick there unless you have experience with the stage.

final d of course is good because its easy to control his projectile spam there

 

[<π]

once you get inside toon link he isn't that beast.

 

[clowsui]

that sounds so gross, <3

in other news tl is hard to beat for some reason...maybe my sheik skill level isn't that high lol

 

[<π]

yeah sorry I was distracted I didn't realize I posted that...

What I'd of added on was.

once you are inside of his projectile spam you have a big advantage. you are way faster than TL on the ground and in the air so you can rack a lot of damage on him quickly.
If you are careful about taking damage when you are in silly camp range. And just be patient about your oppertunities you'll be fine. (TL will give them to you he has a lot of lag on everything spare zair) You'll be fine. don't force anything in the match and you'll avoid a lot of damage traps

 

[Lobos]

once you get inside toon link he isn't that beast.

Who is/are the top sheik mains anyways? Also I wouldn't worry about TL CPing brinstar since I'm the only one that does so. Also this match up is fun ^.^....playing neo's sheik the other night and it was like melee speed.

 

[TLMSheikant]

:/ U guys arent taking into account that we arent exactly toast upclose. We have our spacing aerials, nair bair and zair and they all outrange u. Just saying, it is much harder to beat us upclose than u guys seem to think :/. Anyways, this is a pretty even match i would say 50/50. And about tilt locking TL- u can get around 2-3 ftilts and then a fair.

 

[iLight]

i usually go jab 2 tilts nair which is more damage at low percent, and i'm not saying tl is a joke up close, in fact i've lost a ton of friendlies to both lobos and santi before. It's just that we have a jab that comes out on frame 1 and which combos easily into our tilt combo's. The most TL can do up close is one of his laggier tilts, laggy smash attacks or retreating zair, which only works if your not expecting it. So like it was posted before as long we are patient, and don't eat one of those slower moves than ours, as well as don't get grabbed. We can easily set up very damaging combos.

 

[bigman40]

Yoshi mains are discussing you guys. I would appreciate it if you guys contributed.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239500

 

[-Mars-]

Light, Sheiks jab comes out on frame 2.

 

[iLight]

even if i push my button suppperrrr fast?

=*( i've been spreading lies!!!! lol

oh well, close enough

 

[-Mars-]

Haha yea, if I remember correctly only ZSS and Squirtle have 1 frame jabs. It's actually more of a difference then you think it would be because a frame 1 move is faster than a shield.

 

[Zankoku]

No, you can shield on frame 1.

Frames 1-3 are powershield frames.

 

[-Mars-]

Ah ok I stand corrected.

 

[Tristan_win]

No, you can shield on frame 1.

Frames 1-3 are powershield frames.

I still don't believe that.

 

[Zankoku]

What part don't you believe? It's really easy to tell that it shields as early as frame 1, just have a ZSS or Squirtle, pause game, hold A for the ZSS/Squirtle and shield for the other, unpause.

 

[East]

I still don't believe that.

Tis true. Frame testing says so.

 

[Tristan_win]

It just sounds so **** over powered that's all.

edit: sorry, clearly it's not but even so I don't understand the developers line of thought when they made such a thing

 

[Zankoku]

You could powershield on frames 1-6 in Melee.

 

[gm jack]

In all honesty, can you say that you are likely to both hit the buttons within a 60th of a second of each other repeatedly? While it looks good on paper, I can't see 1 frame difference being all that much in practical terms.

 

[-Mars-]

At higher levels of play is where frame difference advantages become more evident.

 

[<π]

jab doesn't combo into tilts... at all. not tilt about 200% I'm serious.
jab->short->downsmash is true at 180%. Light those are only working because the TLink you are fighting isn't trying to shield and all of toon links ground attacks are too slow to beat you. Jab to grab only really works because people don't react fast enough. fast jabs will beat you at low percents. grab armor helps a lot and people natural tendency to try and shield follow up attacks. Poor DI (not DIing down to shield or use a ground attack imediately) can lead to true combos with jabs and tilts because of how long it actually takes to air dodge or use and aerial for most of the cast.

I try to mix up jab so people don't know wether to attack sheild or what by sheilding myself, running or going for follow up jabs or grabs. Rewarding bad choices is also a good idea. If you notice they sheild a lot go for that second jab before you break off or use a rising nair or something neat. They'll sheild way more often and you'll can get grabs out of jab that more consistently. blah blah blah... not on topic at all.

Also that 1 frame makes a big difference in a lot of cases. clashes are a big one. one frame can also be the difference between an OOS attack hitting a potential shield or not.

 

[NeoCrono]

Sheik has the advantage (fun match-up btw) if sheik can inside of toon link we dont have many many options. We can Nair, Bair, retreating Zair, jab, and D-tilt, if you let us stay away (which you should never do) good luck. watch out for bomb tricks, TL got a lot of them like the invici-bomb
55-45 Sheik

 

[iLight]

eh, well let me be the first one to say that i don't know that much technical stuff about sheik, most of what I do know, comes either from here say or stuff that works for me. I was simply stating how i play the match up, just like I do in most of the other match ups. I run around real fast and wing it, then hope it works =p I don't really know what I'm doing, I just have cat like reflexes =]

I think this match up is 60/40 sheik, and you all can take that for what its worth

 

[Zankoku]

jab doesn't combo into tilts... at all. not tilt about 200% I'm serious.
jab->short->downsmash is true at 180%.

Where are these numbers coming from?

 

[saviorslegacy]

jab doesn't combo into tilts... at all. not tilt about 200% I'm serious.
jab->short->downsmash is true at 180%. Light those are only working because the TLink you are fighting isn't trying to shield and all of toon links ground attacks are too slow to beat you. Jab to grab only really works because people don't react fast enough. fast jabs will beat you at low percents. grab armor helps a lot and people natural tendency to try and shield follow up attacks. Poor DI (not DIing down to shield or use a ground attack imediately) can lead to true combos with jabs and tilts because of how long it actually takes to air dodge or use and aerial for most of the cast.

I try to mix up jab so people don't know wether to attack sheild or what by sheilding myself, running or going for follow up jabs or grabs. Rewarding bad choices is also a good idea. If you notice they sheild a lot go for that second jab before you break off or use a rising nair or something neat. They'll sheild way more often and you'll can get grabs out of jab that more consistently. blah blah blah... not on topic at all.

Also that 1 frame makes a big difference in a lot of cases. clashes are a big one. one frame can also be the difference between an OOS attack hitting a potential shield or not.

I thought that jab combo'd into d-tilt and if you didn't duck it also combo'd into f-tilt.

BTW... jab combo's into grab because the only thing they can get up fast enough is shield. ZSS is an exception to this.