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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

nicaboy

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
2,981
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channeling death lotus
I miss you too Kira, everything sheik related that I've stolen I stole from you.
omg you play lol too?

that game is so **** started 2 weeks ago. I play annie and atm my summoner level is like 14.

we must play as sheik brothers and stuff!

btw i hate fighting shaco **** that gank *** mofo!

last night 10/1/7 3 turrets and one inhibitor get at me!
 

Teczer0

Research Assistant
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
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Messages
16,862
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Convex Cone, Positive Orthant
omg you play lol too?

that game is so **** started 2 weeks ago. I play annie and atm my summoner level is like 14.

we must play as sheik brothers and stuff!

btw i hate fighting shaco **** that gank *** mofo!

last night 10/1/7 3 turrets and one inhibitor get at me!
A great example of a post that belongs in the social thread

:mad:

I'm gonna start moving posts soon >_>
 

Teczer0

Research Assistant
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Unless you really go out of your way to do something drastically dumb, i probably won't infract you. Usually since I used to be well known and very active I know the members that post here a lot won't give me a huge amount of trouble.

But yea the unrelated comments are starting to get out of hand so, social thread it guys.
 

Twin_A

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
2,860
Location
Singin Pretty Fly for a White Guy in the shower :)
I think I asked this a while back, but do you guys have any general advice for the sheik ditto match up? I'm waiting for the KK vs M2K sets to be posted from rom hoping I can learn a few things.

And Tec0 is completely fair! He never tilts to one side or the other with people. Either bair with his justice or dair to throw down against his technical skill as a mod.... Up B.

:p
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
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College Park, MD
I dunno how the Sheik ditto works. I would imagine it's a lot of grabbing, CCing, and "tu"ing. You should punish spotdodges, too, if you notice your opponent has an affinity for them.
 

Twin_A

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
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Location
Singin Pretty Fly for a White Guy in the shower :)
For the record, I love your avi. It's amazing. Deep down inside, I know the pikachu in mine has all along been looking at Scarlett Johansson :p

that having been said, I mean looking past the CGing haha.

I would also assume punishing excess D smashes and spot dodges is a must. Probably sticking to the ground vs jumping around a lot too huh? Thanks tho :D
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
Sheik is a character with a lot of versatility. There's no "right" way to play her IMO. The best way to fight is to figure out your opponent and counter his strategies.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
ic / peach / mewtwo / zelda / puff

puff and ics (if there's two) it doesn't combo because of duck or there's two of them

the others it can work, sometimes you need to wait so peach will d-smash/d-tilt and lag herself and then you grab

but you don't get a big combo on them because of their floatiness
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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Spiral Mountain
i actually just forgot he existed entirely

the cg away on peach sort of counts i guess but all it really does is let you go from (percent less than 20ish) --> 20 --> d-throw --> Fair

So at most you get a 40% throw combo at 0. which is still really good, but it's really percent specific so i didn't really count it.

I guess it could be argued to count though.

*shrug*

Usually your combos on Peach are either gonna be a few Uairs, the result of you calling an air-dodge or Nair or whatever and punishing it, or a simple 2-step like D-throw Fair, tilt Fair, nonsense like that.

On Marth and co. you can do pretty big combos for a while.
 

KirbyKaze

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My experience is similar.

I F-tilted at bad times, sidestepped predictably, and then got grabbed for those two things a lot. And then M2K did grab combos. And he's good at those.

I'm not sure I like F-tilt because it seems easy to CC punish but Fair is countered by F/D-tilt so it's really weird.
 

soap

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
7,229
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
i did like 2 hours of sheik dittos with m2k one time at vidjo's place.

He kinda just camps and waits and stuff. You can counter this with good spacing on your fairs and needles.

eager 4 those vids 2 tho
 

Slhoka

Smash Lord
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Dec 21, 2005
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Hey guys, would you mind giving me a few tips to improve ?

These vids are tournament matches from DST15, which happened last weekend. We're using the PAL version, so don't be too afraid of the Sheik ditto.

Sheik vs Falcon
Cromat vs Slhoka Partie 1
Cromat vs Slhoka Partie 2

Sheik ditto
Mrik vs Slhoka Partie 1
Mrik vs Slhoka Partie 2

I hate these 2 matchups, so I'm rather happy with these sets, especially the one against Mrik as he's a much better player (and kept 3 stocking me the day before :p)
 

KirbyKaze

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You guys really need to get your percentages down a bit more

I mean, I understand it's tempting to dash attack when you get a clean one but at like 14 or 10 or less than 20 that's not even going to knock them down even if they don't CC it

And in that case it's strictly 100% better to grab

Slhoka (Falcon set)

1) Stop full jumping vs Falcon. I see this Falcon is terrible and an idiot and nobody's explained to him that his Uair defeats everything. When the day comes that he realizes all manner of FJs lose to him SH Uairing under them with his blistering speed, then all your full jumps become useless. It's better to be grounded vs Falcon anyway. CC, duck, and shield dash are annoying for him.

2) Don't get so antsy with your dash attacks. Like, seriously. Chillax. He's baiting you and blocking a lot. Grab him. Or just walk forward and let him corner himself. Or don't commit heavily and just move around. Relax dude.

3) Make better combo decisions... prioritize hitting U-tilt, Uair, and Dair above most other moves in a combo if they're available as options. Obviously if your only guaranteed follow is to F-tilt or Dash Attack then that's fine just do it but if they pop up directly above you then the three I listed are usually better than anything else you have if you want to rack a good percent and lead into a finisher. Dair is probably the best if you can actually hit it.

4) Grab edge --> Bair / other aerials is better than D-smash edgeguard at high percents. Grab the edge if you have the option. Your edgeguarding vs Falcon is actually fairly good. Europe is actually fairly good about edgeguarding and gimps.

5) Don't play around on platforms vs Falcon. Again this guy is awful so he doesn't seem to understand how to combo Sheik or how to put pressure on her when she does something wrong but I assure you that platforms are not something you want to be on vs him. They might seem like a good idea because your aerials are long and they give you another avenue to do them from, plus needles, but he's fast enough to maneuver around both of those, get under you, and make you miserable.

6) Learn how to do the easymode dash attack tech chase. When you hit them away from you with a tilt or whatever just dash, stop a little bit in front of them, if you see them bounce (non-tech) or tech stand just dash attack them, if they roll into you just dd dash attack them or U-smash, if they roll away just run for a while and dash attack them (or boost grab if you're feeling slower since they probably block).

7) I don't approve of guess tech chasing but I'm tragically guilty of it. Still, some of these situations you really do have enough to mindlessly F-tilt/D-smash/dash attack whatever he does. Especially when you trap him near the edge because of the throw's trajectory.

8) I'm going to guess you thought he was dead on DL64 when you let him onstage. For future reference, Dair is a better move in that situation than Fair unless they're at about 150% or so.

Yeah that's pretty much all I can tell
 

KirbyKaze

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I'm starting to feel more comfortable in the Falcon matchup. So I feel okay about giving some advice on it.

But take this with a grain of salt. I haven't played the most powerful Falcon (vs Sheik) in tournament.

Hacks ****ing dollar sign.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
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Utilt on someone's shield -> grab. Is it a legitimate "tick throw?" I've done it a few times to people, and it seemed like it had enough frame advantage to work.

Like, the last active frame on her utilt is 24, and the move is IASA on frame 26.
 

KirbyKaze

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You'd be hitting the first frame of her U-tilt (most likely if you do it on their shield) though so it's not legit

I thought it was for the same reason but it's not

It's hard for them to shield grab you first though

Most people aren't good at timing shield grabs

If you space it then yeah but that would be some beast spacing and you'd go a while without protecting yourself because her U-tilt hits behind her

They can actually shield grab between the hits but most people suck and won't or can't do it
 

ChivalRuse

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It wouldn't make sense to grab if you're in front of them, because they'd probably get you first. But if you're behind their shield, do they have an option besides roll/spotdodge that prevents them from getting grabbed?
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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this is one of those times where "lol theorysmash" is a perfectly valid argument and i won't belittle anyone for using it... fox's bair oos is as fast as a grab

not sure about how it works out vs falco though. those two extra jump frames are bothersome.

edit: oh **** it i'll just work out the frame data

k there's a 9 or 10 frame window between grab and u-tilt's 2nd hit depending on if IASA means "can be interrupted on this frame" or "can be interrupted after this frame". I'm inclined to believe it's the former but I have no AR.

Falco bair oos is frame 9

so technically you actually draw

which is funny

so yeah I guess vs Falco if you're too far to be shine OOSed and behind him, then it's probably a legit plan (though they will probably start rolling so wait for those)
 
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