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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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Nov 18, 2007
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Location
Spiral Mountain
Any percent.

He has to 50/50 whether you double jump or not. If he SH Knees he counters no jump. If he FJ Knees he counters DJ, assuming he did it right.

If he does U-throw --> Uair after about 40 or so you can't avoid it, but that's pretty much generic Falcon crap.
 
Mogwai

Mogwai

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Sep 30, 2006
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I want to expect better of you, but I know not to
Fletch said:
Ohhhhh thought it was the other way, sorry I'm a Sheik noob I guess. At what percent can you get out of it if you DI away?
Click to expand...
Magus420 said:
This is what I came up with for u-throw to knee. DI'ing in actually combos for the longest range. You need to claw the jump button and c-stick though since you need to be holding full back the whole time, and be able to c-stick the knee directly out of jumping or DJing full strength backwards. Away DI doesn't combo at any percent, though for a very wide percent range it's a 50/50 mixup of whether you FJ or SH the knee and the Sheik jumping or not jumping.


Code: 
[COLOR=#bab0ff]*Ranges listed use damage before throw, and his u-throw doing 7 dmg

[B][U][SIZE=5][COLOR=#7060ff]U-Throw Advantage[/COLOR][/SIZE][/U][/B] [COLOR=Gray](All Characters)[/COLOR]
0-2        +6
3-9        +7
10-16      +8
17-23      +9
24-30      +10
31-36      +11
37-43      +12
44-50      +13
51-57      +14
58-64      +15
65-70      +16
71-77      +17
78-84      +18
85-91      +19
92-98      +20
99-104     +21
105-111    +22
112-118    +23
119-125    +24
126-132    +25
133-138    +26
139-145    +27
146-152    +28
153-159    +29
160-166    +30
...[/COLOR]
Code: 
[COLOR=#bab0ff][B][U][SIZE=5][COLOR=#7060ff]U-Throw->Knee (Sheik)[/COLOR][/SIZE][/U][/B]

[SIZE=4][B][U][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]DI Behind(Slight)[/COLOR][/U][/B][/SIZE] [COLOR=Gray][90° trajectory][/COLOR]
[SIZE=3][B][COLOR=#ff6000]Total Range(s): 58-114[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]

[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump->Knee [Delay=0 frames/Instant][/COLOR]
58-64      String: -3 (trades with n-air)
65-70      String: -2
71-77      String: -1
78-84      Combo: 0
85-91      Combo: +1
92-96      Combo: +2
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump->Knee [Delay=1 frame][/COLOR]
97-98      Combo: +1
99-103     Combo: +2
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump->Knee [Delay=2][/COLOR]
104        Combo: +1
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump->Knee [Delay=3][/COLOR]
105-108    Combo: +1
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump->Knee [Delay=4][/COLOR]
109-111    Combo: +0
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump->Knee [Delay=5][/COLOR]
112-114    Combo: +0    
115        String: -1 (avoidable with jump)


[SIZE=4][B][U][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]DI Neutral[/COLOR][/U][/B][/SIZE] [COLOR=Gray][85° trajectory][/COLOR]
[SIZE=3][B][COLOR=#ff6000]Total Range(s): 58-116[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]

[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump->Knee [Delay=0 frames/Instant][/COLOR]
58-64      String: -3 (trades with n-air)
65-70      String: -2
71-77      String: -1
78-84      Combo: 0
85-91      Combo: +1
92-97      Combo: +2
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump->Knee [Delay=1 frame][/COLOR]
98         Combo: +1
99-104     Combo: +2
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump->Knee [Delay=2][/COLOR]
105-107    Combo: +2
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump->Knee [Delay=3][/COLOR]
108-109    Combo: +1
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump->Knee [Delay=4][/COLOR]
110-111    Combo: 0
112        Combo: +1
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump->Knee [Delay=5][/COLOR]
113-116    Combo: 0
117        String: -1 (avoidable with jump)


[SIZE=4][B][U][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]DI Behind(Full)[/COLOR][/U][/B][/SIZE] [COLOR=Gray][102.5° trajectory][/COLOR]
[SIZE=3][B][COLOR=#ff6000]Total Range(s): 64-131[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE] [COLOR=Gray](also 133-137; 139-143; 146-148)[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump Backwards->Knee [Delay=0 frames/Instant][/COLOR]
58-63      String: -3 (only works if they try to jump since they go too low)
64         String: -3 (trades with n-air)
65-70      String: -2
71-77      String: -1
78-84      Combo: 0
85-91      Combo: +1
92-97      Combo: +2
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump Backwards->Knee [Delay=1 frame][/COLOR]
98         Combo: +1    
99-103     Combo: +2
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump Backwards->Knee [Delay=2][/COLOR]
104        Combo: +1
105-107    Combo: +2
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump Backwards->Knee [Delay=3][/COLOR]
108-111    Combo: +1
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump Backwards->Knee [Delay=4][/COLOR]
112-115    Combo: +1
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump Backwards->Knee [Delay=5][/COLOR]
116-118    Combo: 0
119        Combo: +1
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump Backwards->Knee [Delay=6][/COLOR]
120-121    Combo: 0
[COLOR=#ff6000][I]or[/I][/COLOR]
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump Backwards->Doublejump Backwards [Delay=4]->Knee [Delay=0][/COLOR]
120        Combo: +1
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump Backwards->Doublejump Backwards [Delay=5]->Knee [Delay=0][/COLOR]
121-125    Combo: 0
126        Combo: +1
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump Backwards->Doublejump Backwards [Delay=6]->Knee [Delay=0][/COLOR]
127-131    Combo: 0
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump Backwards->Doublejump Backwards [Delay=7]->Knee [Delay=0][/COLOR]
132        String: -1 (avoidable with jump)
133-137    Combo: 0
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump Backwards->Doublejump Backwards [Delay=8]->Knee [Delay=0][/COLOR]
138        String: -1 (avoidable with jump)
139-143    Combo: 0
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump Backwards->Doublejump Backwards [Delay=9]->Knee [Delay=0][/COLOR]
144-145    String: -1 (avoidable with jump)
146-148    Combo: 0
[COLOR=Gray]Full Jump Backwards->Doublejump Backwards [Delay=10]->Knee [Delay=0][/COLOR]
149        String: -1 (avoidable with jump)


[SIZE=4][B][U][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]DI Away(Full)[/COLOR][/U][/B][/SIZE] [COLOR=Gray][67.5° trajectory][/COLOR]
[SIZE=3][B][COLOR=#ff6000]Total Range(s): NONE[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE] [COLOR=Gray](doesn't combo)[/COLOR]

FJ knee will hit if they DJ but miss if they don't.
SH knee will hit if they don't DJ but miss if they do.[/COLOR]
Click to expand...
magus is awesome
 
soap

soap

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very impressive

would've been even quicker if tec was gimping better

i guess you dont need too when vanz will just rest them a thousand times
 
Teczer0

Teczer0

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Its cuz Lambchops confused me. I thought since it was doubles he wouldn't risk the firebird. Of course I was wrong and looked dumb doing it.

Then the start of the first match I expected him to firebird and he illusioned. Good mixup I guess except then he never illusioned after that LMAO.

It was strange I guess <_<
 
soap

soap

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do standing needle fakeout on firebird

you can shoot them if they diagonally sweetspot, but u just scare them with the charge then store and slap them after they go high
 
Teczer0

Teczer0

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Generally what I want to stop is the sweetspotted illusions. Thats the main reason I use the drop off double jump nair.

Though you did give me a good idea just now. You're amazing as always soap. :laugh:
 
soap

soap

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you can stand there and dsmash to cover sweetspot illusion, then you can decide to needle or react to whatever.

i dont like doing the nair, ive been spiked in important situations too many times, i meteor cancelled of course but i got edgeguarded after i upbed
 
earla

earla

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Messages
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is this how you DI foxes up throw - up air at high percent?

1. DI away when he gets grab
2. mash main control stick from diagonal up/away diagonal down away?
 
ChivalRuse

ChivalRuse

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College Park, MD
The staple is don't recover. Mindgames!

No, but if I were to guess, I would say to fall down a bit then DJ uair below the stage then sweetspot with first part of the up-b. Or something else that M2K would do.
 
P

Plairnkk

Smash Legend
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
10,243
at low % space animals have a few options, so i wouldnt say there is any staple. its more predicting ur opponents. it depends on how they get off, how much time you have, etc.

for instance if i backthrow someone between like 0-20/30 ill do one of two things typically. ill either short hop reverse needle to hit the ledge intersection point if i think theyre gonna jump and try to grab the ledge. otherwise, since the player clearly won't drop low, i bthrow and immediately start charging an upsmash.

most players at low % try to get back ASAP so they double jump and airdodge up, the usmash tippers them, does 25+% and gets them above you with no jump. from that point you should know what to do since it's a spacie above you with 25-50% and no jump :p


if they dont jump and airdodge on they will drop back. if they forward b onto the stage usmash hits and ***** them. if they upb you have time to drop the usmash and needle them.

if they drop back and forward b directly to the ledge, well, u miss. but generally i do this to catch an airdodge if people are doing it often or if i suspect someone to do it.
 
LooksLikePit

LooksLikePit

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Hey people one of your fellow sheik mains is in need of some advice. I need to improve my skills in team matches. When I enter teams it's pretty much always with a peach player for the purpose of being super gay. Anyways...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-YulclzFhI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMv7FsrKgPs

Usually I'm the defensive one and my partner is offensive. Are there any better strategies?

I am sherigami btw
 
earla

earla

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Aug 29, 2008
Messages
1,422
what do you do about falcos lasers?

what do you do when falco is spamming f-smash at edge when u're hanging off?

what do you do about that dair, shine combo ?
 
elvenarrow3000

elvenarrow3000

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Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Power shield or avoid them without putting yourself in a vulnerable position.

Hit him? Shino stall, ledge dash to grab or just ledge hop fair?

Smash DI the dair away.
 
DJRome

DJRome

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Dec 29, 2007
Messages
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some questions about stuff. . .

1. how do i practice sheik ditto cg? i can't seem to get it unless im frame perfect out of the d throw with my dash grab from standing position. should i be jc grabbing or boost grabbing instead? i start the training mode @ 20%

2. how do i deal with falco from the ledge? it seems that double laser ftilt is hard to stop. do i just back off and wait for tilt to grab or something like that?

3. how do i get back from the ledge against falco? i can't get past the laser/fsmash options and the occasional ftilt/utilt (from roll)

4. what is the optimal strat vs samus/jiggs/peach? i back the mindset to bair spam until they go away for a second and then i charge needles. idk what to do out of grab other than ftilt--->fair, but often times, i get cc'ed into something in my attempt to get inside position to get grabs. like usually i jab/tilt for grab, but those get cc'ed easily. and then if i try to str8 up grab, i get punished.

5. ban/cp for sheik? i usually stadium fox, fd falco, ys or bf for cf, dl puff, ys samus, dl peach

6. how do i beat spacies' cc? cc into punish seems hard to beat esp against tilts
 
K

Kira-

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Messages
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really good/specific questions. but they take a lot of time to fix, work on one thing at a time otherwise you'll be overwhelmed lol.

DJRome said:
some questions about stuff. . .

1. how do i practice sheik ditto cg? i can't seem to get it unless im frame perfect out of the d throw with my dash grab from standing position. should i be jc grabbing or boost grabbing instead? i start the training mode @ 20%
Click to expand...
training mode, wait for zelda to transform, then press start as the percent gets too high. i JC grab only, other people say dashgrabs or boostgrabs work better but i've had success with solely JC grabs. Don't try to guess when your grab animation is over, instead, look at where the enemy sheik is and throw out a grab before she gets too low for a grab to connect. btw i've done it at 7% at the lowest i think (DI away), so dont start at 20%.

2. how do i deal with falco from the ledge? it seems that double laser ftilt is hard to stop. do i just back off and wait for tilt to grab or something like that?
Click to expand...
jump over the double laser and nair on top of his head. or if there's a platform, wait on the platform and fall through with a fair after the lasers are done.

3. how do i get back from the ledge against falco? i can't get past the laser/fsmash options and the occasional ftilt/utilt (from roll)
Click to expand...
wavedash on the stage. you can shield whatever attack they do. also ledge stall more... getting back is tricky but if you act quick enough your ledge invincibility carries through. wavedash on the stage to ftilt or buffered roll works too.

4. what is the optimal strat vs samus/jiggs/peach? i back the mindset to bair spam until they go away for a second and then i charge needles. idk what to do out of grab other than ftilt--->fair, but often times, i get cc'ed into something in my attempt to get inside position to get grabs. like usually i jab/tilt for grab, but those get cc'ed easily. and then if i try to str8 up grab, i get punished.
Click to expand...
moves that beat CC: grab, shield, dsmash, needles. by shield i mean, if you attack with a fair, L cancel it and shield after instead of doing another move (like jab, ftilt, etc). spotdodge works too.

those characters are pretty different and would take pages of writing to assess each one. so i'll do it later lool sorry, or maybe someone else will do it. but against samus: learn wavedash out of shield. you can wavedash through their jabs, you can wavedash out of shield to grab if they fsmash or dsmash your shield, you can escape their entire shield pressure game, and samus players dont like to grab so you're pretty safe in your shield, not to mention sheik has the best shield in the game.

5. ban/cp for sheik? i usually stadium fox, fd falco, ys or bf for cf, dl puff, ys samus, dl peach
Click to expand...
this is largely personal preference, but i ban FD against almost everyone.
counter FoD/battlefield against fox, DL64 against falco (or DK64), yoshi's vs puff, DK64/brinstar against samus, stadium vs Peach (she's pretty good on small stages even though she dies quicker). brinstar vs ICs

6. how do i beat spacies' cc? cc into punish seems hard to beat esp against tilts
Click to expand...
use needles or grab so they can't CC. or CC dsmash back.

earla said:
what do you do about falcos lasers?
Click to expand...
short hop nair over, or dash attack/boost grab under. But hitting them before the laser comes out is better, just recognize when they like to laser. also nair out of shield to stop aerials right after a laser. and wavedash back out of shield after lasers so their attack lands in front of you.

what do you do about that dair, shine combo ?
Click to expand...
at 0%, smash DI the dair UP. yes up, you won't fall as far and you can jump out before you hit the ground due to low hitstun. at higher percents, DI away and don't change it (usually). for the most part, this gets you out of everything, once it stops working come back and ask us again =P
 
elvenarrow3000

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Against Samus, Jigglypuff and Peach, lock them down with needles, as they tend to not move very well and aren't the best in dealing with projectiles. Jigglypuff is a little faster, but... whatever, Jigglypuff is just Jigglypuff.

Dthrow uair works for the kill. Percentages vary, obviously.
 
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