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Social SGD: The hedgehogs are back in town.

FRiSKruns

Smash Ace
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Actually, it would be pretty neat if Sonic could use some of his Brawl (or Project M) moveset in some of the newer Sonic games, while still retaining the speed plays/levels. It'd probably be best to keep that optional though. I think it'd be pretty lame to be *stuck* with that.

Edit: As much as I like the ol' Spin and Win time, a change of pace every now and then can always be pretty fun/interesting.
 
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just give me sonic adventure gameplay with the sonic boost top speeds as something gained through momentum and avoiding obstacles. My only grip with unleashed, colors and generations was the fact it was pretty much 2D sonic but from a 3D perspective and not an actual free roaming 3Dimensional plane. Sure you could run left and run right but there weren't much depth to the level besides it looking like one giant runway. Generations and colors started to fix this but sonic still felt like a car to me. The idea of adding combat imo is nice but i would only want like some basic actions. A full blown combat system would take away from the point of running fast and going to the goal. Like for example if sonic could run jump onto an enemie and then use it as a skateboard and ram it into another enemy then lunge forward and keeping running or land an roll into others would be nice. Anything besides just being able to run and slide into things. And i want his spin dash back :( . I miss being able to spin around in a circle mindlessly for no reaspn other than for the fact im doing a spin dash in a 3dimensional space.
 

Phantom Gamer

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Just gonna put this out there that Tesh should just play Sonic Unleashed for all eternity if all he wants is a game where Sonic fights his enemies a la DMC as Espy mentioned.
 

Life

Smash Hero
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The reason Sonic games have a bad rep is that everyone wants something different, as we see in this thread. I come in with no expectations and I've enjoyed every Sonic game I've played (which includes Unleashed, SATSR, SATBK, but notably not Sonic 06).

Which is why I used to say that a lot of Sonic games would be better received if they came from another IP.
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
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Tesh is right though. Look at super mario brothers compared to super mario world to mario 64 to mario galaxy.

Now look at sonic from the same perspective. Sonic 1 to s+k, to the sa series to generations. There hasnt been nearly as muvh progression on sonics side, plus the ratio of flat out bad games is way too far in sonics favor
 

Tesh

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Mario games have always been better though. Its not like Sonic started out awesome and then fell off completely. It just hasn't evolved much despite starting on a lower bar. Not even factoring in nostalgia or anything. I had a Genesis w/Sonic and a Nintendo/SNES w/Mario and I felt that way when I was little.

@ the Unleashed comments, I'm not saying I want bad beat em up gameplay and as I said I'm not fond of DMC. I was thinking more along the lines of Sonic Rush's stage progression, but with controls fit for a real platformer/beat em up. In Sonic Rush you still got to blaze through levels but there were areas that if you entered, there was an ambush and you had to defeat all enemies to progress. This was good aside from the fact that enemies are way too easy to kill. Combat doesn't have to be a brutal and complex as Ninja Gaiden/Bayonetta, but something like Shinobi (ps2) would be perfect for Sonic.

It would be nice if they brought back the bubbles. Another big plus Mario has is lots of powers and how they affect gameplay. Mario games are still pretty damn easy, but at least they never took the low road of beefing up difficulty with "oops a bottomless pit and bad controls hehe".
 

Espy Rose

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So again, you want Sonic Unleashed. Because it followed the same formula as Rush.

I never understood why people like Mario so much. I find that most Mario games post SMW are unbearably dull and boring to play. I struggle to commit more than thirty minutes to any of those games because I just get so tired of the monotony of it all.

Powerups are nice, but I think when I play a Mario game, I expect something to deviate from the core mechanics of the franchise in a way that just pops out at me, and I just don't like that it never really happens. I feel like Mario always plays it super safe when it comes to that. Super Mario Galaxy 2 and the NSMB series kinda illustrate the hell out of the sentiment.

I'm definitely not defending Sonic though, but on that note, I could at the very least respect that Sega took a bunch of chances with it all. They just fell flat on their face because the commitment to the changes were shoddy and had a terrible development. Heroes could've been amazing. Unleashed could've been so much better, and the Storybook series could've really gone somewhere if they just put more TLC into their product.

At the same time, it's funny as hell. Sonic 06 is easily one of the most endearing pieces of work I've ever experienced from the gaming industry, and I'll be remembering it far, far beyond anything Mario Bros related post-64. For all the wrong reasons, sure, but it'll still be there. And at this point, I really wouldn't want it any other way.

:applejack:
 

Kuraudo

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Different strokes for different blokes in the end. I for one love my Mario adventures. Sonic on the other hand? It's a special experience that goes by a case by case experience. I love playing Generations for all the eye-popping moments and the music that gets me into the moment of speed, and trying to go faster.
 

Espy Rose

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I was disappointed that the levels post-Genesis era in Generations didn't abuse the change in the music when you speed boosted in the modern stages. Playing GHZ and listening to that enunciated riff got me so pumped. :applejack:
 

Kuraudo

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I was disappointed that the levels post-Genesis era in Generations didn't abuse the change in the music when you speed boosted in the modern stages. Playing GHZ and listening to that enunciated riff got me so pumped. :applejack:
I feel you there. Most of the time though I'd change the song to something else. Like I love Sonic Heroes on the Seaside Hill.
 

Tesh

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I like the formula for Rush except the gameplay is bad. Use that formula with good gameplay mechanics is what I want.

Mario games are just more fun imo. I don't like the new 2D ones very much as a single player game, but boost mode trolling is pure gold even if they didn't intend for it to be. I still find Sonic to be WORSE despite Mario games being too easy for me now.
 

Mr. Johan

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The Speed-boost alternative to the song in Generations isn't available in Chemical Plant either; only reason GHZ and SSZ got that enunciated riff was because the stages had that 200%/300% boost gauge missions that the other stages did not.

I kept most of the music the same in the regular acts. I used Tropical Resort and Sonic 2 Special Stage for pretty much all the mission acts. My brother put Race to Win EVERYWHERE though.
 

Phantom Gamer

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I don't recall what song I used for most stages in Generations, but I do know that I used Sonic Boom for the final boss battle.
 

Camalange

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I like the formula for Rush except the gameplay is bad. Use that formula with good gameplay mechanics is what I want.
Bad gameplay? Sonic Rush was amazing. I've replayed that **** so hard.

Also, I've always preferred Sonic over Mario, even as a child. And it wasn't just like I grew up with only Sega so I liked it more because bias. I had equal access to both. Sonic basically did what Mario did, but better imo. Sure, there would never be Sonic without Mario. Duh. Sonic was built completely on the idea of outselling him (and did for a good while). But what every other company failed at was instead of trying to imitate what was popular, Sega improved upon it. Sonic was faster (lol) and personally I felt that the levels were more endearing and well constructed. S3&K is a masterpiece that is still just as amazing to me as the day I played it. Mario was always fun, but I Sonic was always an experience. And honestly, back in the power-up days of Sonic, I liked them. The water bubble, the fireball, etc. all had different uses and abilities.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Mario. Mario 64 was amazing, and clearly, Mario has aged well with games like Sunshine and Galaxy which broke the mold very successfully. Unfortunately Sonic has hit a lot of bumps and is finally finding his footing again.

Sonic Heroes was probably the last good Sonic game during an era of bad Sonic games, with Sonic Rush being the gem in a pile of ****.

Unleashed was so close to being great.

So close.

Oh, and I'm sick of that NSMB bull****. Recycling the same **** and trying to sell it to me again. If it wasn't for Luigi's Mansion 2 I would currently have zero intrest in the plumber family.

:093:
 

Espy Rose

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I can't even tell you how many times I played Sonic Rush. It was so god damn good.
The Sonic Advance series was also pretty damn sweet. :applejack:
 

B_AWAL

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Sonic games have basically began to give you more of the same rush that a racing game would give you. Some of the levels are pretty long & unfortunately I dont think it makes much sense to stop and destroy enemies. Sonic games are supposed to give you the feeling that your running around(at the speed of sound) and rolling THROUGH your enemies as you complete your objective. The whole stop and kill thing would slow the whole experience down. Granted I get where your coming from Tesh. Sonic games dont really FEEL like they are evolving cause its really alot of just "going through the motions" when your playing.

Sonic games have always given you that sensation of trying to blaze through stages & then "holy ****" you die. & then you retry. The games are about memorization trial and error & doing it as fast as possible. From SA 2 SG Sonic games have gone by the same formula while slowly and surely working on the controls, camera & glitches. In fact... I feel like every bad Sonic game was bad because they were over hyped and couldn't afford to postpone deadlines.

:sonic:
 

B_AWAL

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@Tesh 2 me it sounds like you want to play Shadow the Hegdehog

:sonic:

If Sonic Colors n Sonic Generations are bad... Then please explain what you would like. Cuz the options your throwing out seem 2 mean that u dont wanna play a SONIC game.
 

Camalange

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I enjoyed the Werehog and I played the Wii version with difficult motion controls.

It's just not "Sonic" I guess?
I was very open to Unleashed. Werehog and all. My disappointment comes from how janky the werehog controls are. Something as simple as getting across platforms was complete ass. His walk into dash was janky, his jump was janky, his landing was janky, it just felt like a mess to me. I had the game for both Wii AND 360 because I heard they were different so I really gave this a fighting chance. The daytime levels were so good that it made me sad that I didn't even want to beat the game anymore after I got like halfway through the story and hit a nighttime stage that I just couldn't stomach anymore. So it wasn't that it was not "Sonic" to me, cuz honestly even the daytime levels of Sonic were pretty much the first time we saw that type of gameplay which would carry over into Colors and Generations. They hit something good for one aspect and then hit a brick wall for the other.

:093:
 

Espy Rose

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I don't particularly like Werehog gameplay, but that's also because I feel like that kind of gameplay doesn't belong in a Sonic game. :applejack:
 

BSP

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Sonic Game discussion, fun.

@Tesh: where do you think Sonic can develop outside of combat? I think his speed is being developed fine (see modern sonic games), but they shouldn't leave out the platforming for the sake of speed. That's what made S3K so great for me.

What do you guys like about Unleashed? I've only played the demo and I've watched some reviews. Most people seemed to enjoy it, but I did watch a few that said it sucked because it sacrificed nearly everything for speed. I'm sure you guys have noticed that the game plays itself at times, or you just hold X and steamroll everything without any thought. The best description of it was: an interactive cutscene ( looking at you QTEs) Rails are evil in Sonic games as well IMO. They were fun the first couple of times, but I'm realizing they just take control from you. What if in modern generations instead of grinding on a rail when the big chopper chases you, you were actually running, or, idk, actually doing something to avoid the thing?
 

Tesh

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The core gameplay of Sonic games plays itself as you said. Too much "hold forward and jump" .

Speed segments should play like a good racing game. I don't get how SEGA can make such a good racing game in all stars racing transformed, yet Sonic games suffer so much in this same aspect. I don't think this alone can make Sonic games good, because multi player is big in racing games. Sonic is basically just time attack only because you are almost never racing against anything but yourself.
 

Life

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I didn't really have a "reason" to enjoy Unleashed, I guess I just kind of did?

Grinding rails can work inasmuch as the rail gives you new things to do. If it's just grinding over some random pit on one rail, yeah, okay, that's dumb, but if there's a secret hidden for, say, jumping off with a boost at just the right time, or if there are multiple rails and you have to make decisions about which to stay on (say there are random obstacles placed on two rails running side by side) then it makes more sense.

A good game challenges your decision-making and/or your dexterity. Individual game elements can be judged the same way. y/n?
 

B_AWAL

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1st off... We should expect more bad Sonic games 2 make up 4 Sega's downfall... http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/10/43...-drop-in-sales-plans-to-focus-more-on-digital

2nd... Sonic Generations & Sonic Colors deliver what your requesting Tesh... What is your dilemma?

3rd - I hate the idea of any Sonic game where there's a remote chance of Sonic losing. Even though there is the excuse that "Tails made this vehicle so Sonic wont have an unfair advantage on foot"

:sonic:
 

Camalange

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Sonic Racing Transformed is actually a great game. I like it way more than any of the new Mario Karts. The levels are fun and the "transform" elements don't feel like a gimmick. They lead to new paths and a slight change in gameplay. The items aren't broken as hell, and the game is really rewarding towards drifting. You get different levels of drift for how long you do it, and if you "snake" the levels don't drop, they remain intact if it's a clean movement, so you can snake around, then release for a high level boost (lv.3 I think is the highest?) and get a huge speed up off it. Different cars obviously have different stats, so some will give you higher boost, accelerate, etc.

It just feels really well thought out and designed, and just simply overall fun, lol. It gives you a lot of speed with strong ease of control, plus more ways to abuse drifts and boosts to go crazy speeds as opposed to trying to hold you back, which is also enforced by the balanced item system.

As for the recent Sonic titles, I don't see what's wrong with them being built around a "time-attack" idea. Sure, it can sort of seem like it's playing itself at times... But that's only if you let it. Like Life said, there's a lot of quick decision making that leads to better paths and faster times. You need to have the quick reaction times to slide under walls, jump over obstacles, clear through enemies and not abuse your boost meter, etc. But at the same time, the game is forgiving and if you choose to not do these things, you'll pretty easily be able to get to the end of the level, except it won't be nearly as fast of a score, flashy, rewarding, etc. If they DIDN'T do this, people would ***** and moan that the game's too hard because they can't process how to run up a ramp or jump over something. So if you choose to let the game play itself, yeah, it's gonna be kind of boring. But if you take on the challenge it becomes a crazy decision based racer.

If you're not up for it, or it's just not your thing, then clearly you won't like it. Duh. I don't see how that makes it BAD. You're looking for something in a game that isn't trying to sell that said thing to you. I personally do miss the more smooth platforming and not break neck speeds of games like Sonic 3, but franchises evolve and I appreciate and enjoy what the new titles have been. And who knows, maybe Lost World will change the game again. We'll just wait and see.

Also, what's with all the talk of "combat" in a Sonic game? That's never been a real element, lol. Enemies have always been really easy to destroy and only an inconvenience if it's your first time ever playing a Sonic game and have zero reaction time. Enemies are placed in a way that if you use your eyeballs you can react in time to either hop on them, spin through them, or more recently, boost through. If you wanna beat 'em up go play something else and quit looking for that in Sonic games and criticizing them for lacking that. Or better yet, go play Sonic Battle like I mentioned before cuz that ****'s tight.

:093:
 
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