Social SGD: The hedgehogs are back in town.

[True Blue]

Almost as good as when you throw someone up and they are returning down and you just duck and make yourself seem lower on the ground and then get at them quickly. Though works better with other characters. But sometimes ducking still feels like a mind game sometimes to people falling back down cause you can unintentionally think they are farther away when they are not just because the body has been lowered. lol

Edit: But that is just me, maybe I think too much into things. lol

 

[Kupo Rose]

Plant Spring after KO and duck under Spring is the only time I do it lol.

Other silly things I remembering attempting were jab1 run past Fsmash.

 

[True Blue]

That typical run past there back and F-Smash them lol. An even better then is running and then stopping immediately while still out of range of grabs and junk and then do a Down Smash. Lol. I need to find some replays where I did that. It is just funny and stupid. Almost as dumb as the time I played Ike against someone and did Jab 1 to F-Smash. lol

 

[Mr. Johan]

Dtilt -> stutterstep Fsmash works wonders at 100+% on those who really want to get back in your face after being hit.

 

[JMan8891]

If you change your movement, you change the neutral game spacing.

We play the fastest character in the game. It really helps to have more movement options. Back in 08, I would walk a LOT randomly to throw of ppl's timing. Old tactics still work when used sparingly

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

walking a lot is good too.

have you ever tried randomly dashing away so that an attack would miss? not the best option, but works. also might help reset a situation

 

[JMan8891]

Retreating, yes, but never "random" or without thought. Yes, you can escape almost ANYTHING by dashing away. Problem is you are giving up lots of stage control, so if you get pinned, your options and movement are really hindered

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

ok, maybe not truly "random", but just dash away at any times.

BTW, is that one of the reasons ur not allowed to pause the game? you can see an attack coming and then just dash away (where I thought of that)

 

[JMan8891]

Well that, it throws off DI, and tech chases. And momentum

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

Oh yeah. i always thought it was cuz the other player can get time (even if some seconds) to think.

 

[JMan8891]

Naw. That's not AS important, because some moves don't have large start up. So pausing doesn't affect it in those instances. It does, however, let both player think a LONG time about the spacing, and opponent options. It throws off teching and DI. Its bad to pause

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

oh, alright

 

[True Blue]

Yea definitely for me pausing throws my momentum out the window. Where I was in the game and completely in the MODE and then it pauses I am completely out of sync and have to start back up and get back into that mode.

I think I got a new tag I will start using at tournaments lol. It's gonna be the best way that explains my play style. lol

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

wut is it?

 

[True Blue]

It will be a surprise! lol.

 

[Tesh]

http://www.twitch.tv/rockettrainer

Ascension 4 is tomorrow and its the last Apex qualifier I believe (or this is the last batch this weekend i mean) so it might have some decent attendance. Expect Razer, Pwii, Denti, Jnig, Pj, Asa and such and Zero (?) and I will also be there, but maybe not on stream much.

 

[Espy Rose]

That's one hell of a run on you got going there.

 

[da K.I.D.]

ducking also keep falco from dairing you and marth from fair/dairing you when you up throw them at 0

 

[NH Cody]

Why would you want to uthrow > duck when you could uthrow > utilt?

 

[Espy Rose]

Because if you read the dair and duck, you get another uthrow, which still sets up into nasty damage.

 

[da K.I.D.]

wtf is wrong with you people.

why in the hell does ANYBODY thats not espy use uptilt?

its god fkng awful, and hes the only one ive seen make it look even remotely useful.

Stop up tilting.

Just.... Just stop it.

Its bad. this is not up for debate, this discussion is over.

No.

 

[JMan8891]

I NEVER use it. I mean.... Insta Uair has more utility, less cooldown, and more range (vertically, true horizontally, and horizontally with air influence) so... what is the actual frame Uair can come out on after the SH and the fastest frame the vertical hitbox is out on? Well worth it in utility compared to Utilt... that's what ****ing frame it does

 

[FRiSKruns]

well..... actually Utilt comes out on frame 7, Uair would be hitting with the 1st hitbox on frame 9, so Utilt would be faster, but the horizontal is garbage, and the cooldown is mondo ugly.

Overall saying it's a bad move is an understatement, but it's got a few uses, it can punish spotdodges (though I wouldn't reccommend it unless you opponent is on a platform, even then fair does more or less the same, with the right timing), combos from d-tilt with the right spacing.

The only time Utilt is ever even a bit useful is off of hard-reads, even then it's hardly worth the risk of using.

Edit: it may or may not have use for killing, but that'd only be on a stage with low ceilings like Halberd or Frigate, while under a platform (to be safe) when your opponent is landing on it and the opponent is a lightweight at 130%+. Thus making it ridiculously situational and further proving Goggles' point. Don't bother using it, there are too many more viable options.

Edit2: and yeah, the 2nd hitbox of uair is out on frame 16, so the whole process would mean the 2nd hitbox comes out on frame 20. since jump is 4 frames.

 

[ViperGold42]

i love you all

 

[True Blue]

I like using it just to get some different moves in.

 

[Kupo Rose]

Someone pass the happy juice to KID.

 

[Espy Rose]

KID needs to get on Skype somehow. Someway.

 

[JMan8891]

Uair cancels if you do it right. We also specifically were talking about Uthrow follow ups. I'd never Utilt. Uair allows you to finagle your spacing, both hits will (likley) hit, and it will cancel leaving you free to follow up (so less cooldown).

Woe unto thee that goeth for Utilt and miss thyne adversary. Thyne Adversary shall maketh the into their pregnant female dog with nary a second thought upon the matter

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

i use utilt pretty frequently, mainly because i want to use every move sonic has in some way for mixups. it also just makes me laugh when i kill someone with utilt XP. i still wish the spike the first hit of utilt deals was stronger, i've landed it multiple times on someone trying to jump back onstage only for it to send them slowly down -_-

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

I'd say use if if uair is stale (and mostly in the situations Jingzero described) or if i'm far ahead, cuz it sounds cool.

 

[NH Cody]

umad KID. It has several obvious usages.

1. if someone is above you on a platform
2. if someone whiffs an approaching SH aerial
3. comboing off uthrow at 0%
4. if you are in certain situations in the Sonic ditto

etc.

Froggy is right too. I actually want to save uair as an extra option for the kill.

 

[Kupo Rose]

Those scenarios can really by covered by Sonic's other moves.

Utilt is no good.

 

[da K.I.D.]

umad KID. It has several obvious usages.

1. if someone is above you on a platform
2. if someone whiffs an approaching SH aerial
3. comboing off uthrow at 0%
4. if you are in certain situations in the Sonic ditto

etc.

Froggy is right too. I actually want to save uair as an extra option for the kill.

iFurious.

1. Nair, fair, up air, bair, VSDJ, and up smash are all better options.
2. Side b, fair, nair, up air, up smash, up-angled f smash and up-angled f tilt are all better options. You cant even beat SH aerials with up tilt. It has ZERO horizontal range. The only way youre going to beat an aerial with up tilt is if its wario and hes coming directly on top of you with a dair. At which point, fair beats it anyway and you might as well just up air and frame trap him into a grab anyway.
3. Lets break this down, because you dont seem to be smart enough to understand this.
Up throw to up tilt does 23% and gives you no follow ups because its so laggy
Up throw to nothing gives you stage control for follow ups including another up throw, which does 23% and actually sets up for more damage. Since you put them in the exact same situation. That you can do over and over. Hell, you can even do up throw then punish their airdodge with side b footstool spring dair jab lock (that is a KID original btw)
Up throw up air combos into double jump up air for 30% and gives you the position advantage. Which allows you to set up for more follow ups

So you can either take mediocre damage and get nothing out of it.
OR
You can take mediocre damage and a GREAT set up
OR
You can take great damage and get a good follow up.
Fk up tilt, its effing bad.
The Sage of up throw has spoken.

4. ***** fk outta here with that sonic ditto bullcrap. Nobody cares. How often do you have to play a tournament match against another sonic? Whats that? Its only happened one time ever? At mlg? Okay, so i guess that means its super relavent now huh?
No. Stop that

...save up air for kills? What are you, high?
Stuff like that make me a. Feel like none of you know anything about this character and b. I shouldnt even bother trying to help people

Go back to that low budget anime wannabe abortion toon link

 

[Kupo Rose]

Props for typing all that on your phone lol.

 

[NH Cody]

Oh now you're talking trash about my Toon Link lol? You should MM me at apex since I'm clearly so bad and stupid! How about $10?

inb4 KID escapes again

 

[da K.I.D.]

Oh now you're talking trash about my Toon Link lol? You should MM me at apex since I'm clearly so bad and stupid! How about $10?

inb4 KID escapes again

1. I never said your toonlink was bad, I was making fun of toon link as a character.
2. I suck **** at that matchup but if KC can take a game off you then, Ill take you up on that offer any day of the week.

 

[NH Cody]

ha! We shall see. I must have misinterpreted. Still, you went all "you suck at life" on me just because you vehemently opposed my opinion about utilt. Calm down there, KIDDO.

 

[Exceladon City]

The only use I've ever found for Utilt is stopping Wario Dair. Even then, you'd have to be prepared for it.

 

[SoupaSonic]

speaking of tilts, I'm a fan of d-tilt. I think it combos some fatties and spacies at certain percentages, idk tho. I like dat tippah d-tilt because it makes me believe I have good spacing. I don't, but it's nice to think that I do sometimes lol

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

i actually discovered this some time ago.

you can use Sonic's d-tilt to outrun a treadmill...