Zano
Smash Master
you aren't going to road to tcg2?
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Official Seizon Senryaku: Marth General
- Thread starter Shaya
- Start date
No I've got finals this week, gotta study
Zano
Smash Master
rip either of us going
c u at Nike's tourney then
c u at Nike's tourney then
If people haven't seen it yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mPjV0o_lio
I tried to do it for 30 minutes but got no results. Maybe you guys will have better luck/find out what inputs allow you to do it consistently.
I tried to do it for 30 minutes but got no results. Maybe you guys will have better luck/find out what inputs allow you to do it consistently.
Wow that was crazy. Looked like a platform cancel tbh
Been accidentally doing that since 3DS came out, no real idea about timing other than just ledge drop jump landings.
Zano
Smash Master
so it's a platform cancel input on the ledge, but they took out actual platform cancelling. Nintendo confuses me
warionumbah2
Smash Master
How ignorant. If you scrolled up a little you'll see Shaya say in caps that it got BUFFED. Jesus.
For long long while smash 4 looked like brawl with new effects, new characters. And new music lol. Soooo many things look copy pasted, further supported by many glitches from brawl being present in smash 4 >.>
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
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I mean smash 4 is the same engine as brawl with glitches removed and some other tweaks.
FlAlex
Smash Journeyman
I don't main marth so I can't really help giving tips but I was wondering if you would be kind enough to share some footage of your marth at this tourney. I'd like to know what a good marth looks like in smash4.
Best of luck!
FlAlex
Smash Journeyman
no problem! I wanna see Marth win after hearing about how bad he is to the rest of the cast.
I was bored today and decided to do something somewhat productive. In essence, I compiled the character landing lag frame data from this thread and made a simple tool in excel. You pick the character and you will be able to see the frame data for the landing lag of each move. You can also see how much time, in seconds rounded down to four decimal spaces, that your character will be inactive. There might be some errors if there is frame data that I entered incorrectly but that can easily be changed if anyone notices it. Regardless a quick preview:
![]()
If anyone would be interested in this let me know. I know it will be helpful for me on the long run. If only I could find every characters frame data, I could make a similar tool for that.
FlAlex
Smash Journeyman
Thanks, man! Definitely will use after/if you add all the other moves. Mind if I share this with other threads? Credit will be given.
@
FlAlex
This is basically for the landing lag from aerials and airdodge. If I could find the data for full move-sets for the other characters I could do something similar with that but for now this is what I have. If you guys want the tool, you would have to let me know in order to upload the spreadsheet and that way you could share it easily or make one on google docs... Can you program spreadsheets like in excel with google docs?
FlAlex
This is basically for the landing lag from aerials and airdodge. If I could find the data for full move-sets for the other characters I could do something similar with that but for now this is what I have. If you guys want the tool, you would have to let me know in order to upload the spreadsheet and that way you could share it easily or make one on google docs... Can you program spreadsheets like in excel with google docs?
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JaegerEC
Smash Cadet
As far as that weird ledgedash thing, I actually just accidentally did it in a match after watching that video. It definitely has something to do with Dair. I was trying to let go of the ledge, double jump and down air to edge guard my opponent below me. I landed on the stage but it was like my normal got L-canceled and I had no recovery afterwards. Very weird.
Well I ended up getting 3rd. I lost to a wft/robin and my friends diddy. Its funny because Ive been coaching him for about 2 weeks now and today he finally beat me. He did play very well.
Still struggling on who to use vs diddy. And how to beat rolling consistently. I probably should play more patiently, that's probably the issue. Being too aggressive.
My set vs the robin/wft will be uploaded (mobile video) by some guy named crazyjump fish.
I thought sonic was the answer to diddy, but he played very patient and I couldn't get in. Ughhh its so frustrating...I have to work so hard to get any damage and he does one grab and says screw your 10 reads.
I felt I lost vs wft due to lack of my experience (don't have a Wii u, tournaments are my practice), so I challenged him after the match and 2 stocked him as marth.
Duddy is still a very real issue...safe aeriels, great grab, great projectile...
He doesn't have to take much risks, because if he's in shield at worst he'll get grabbed, and nobody really has half the stuff he has out of grab AND can get the grab as well as he can.
I tried zoning him out, And wed stand there looking at each other knowing yup you gotta approach Marth your just gonna corner yourself against a diddy with a banana in hand that can literally cover all your options.
The reward for diddy playing so patient is ridiculous...so safe, with so much reward.
And in the hands of a good player? smh
For every 5 reads you do as marth, Diddy can make up in one.
Ik the hate diddy train has been beat to death, but geez...that character is stupid lol
At least I made some money $~$
Still struggling on who to use vs diddy. And how to beat rolling consistently. I probably should play more patiently, that's probably the issue. Being too aggressive.
My set vs the robin/wft will be uploaded (mobile video) by some guy named crazyjump fish.
I thought sonic was the answer to diddy, but he played very patient and I couldn't get in. Ughhh its so frustrating...I have to work so hard to get any damage and he does one grab and says screw your 10 reads.
I felt I lost vs wft due to lack of my experience (don't have a Wii u, tournaments are my practice), so I challenged him after the match and 2 stocked him as marth.
Duddy is still a very real issue...safe aeriels, great grab, great projectile...
He doesn't have to take much risks, because if he's in shield at worst he'll get grabbed, and nobody really has half the stuff he has out of grab AND can get the grab as well as he can.
I tried zoning him out, And wed stand there looking at each other knowing yup you gotta approach Marth your just gonna corner yourself against a diddy with a banana in hand that can literally cover all your options.
The reward for diddy playing so patient is ridiculous...so safe, with so much reward.
And in the hands of a good player? smh
For every 5 reads you do as marth, Diddy can make up in one.
Ik the hate diddy train has been beat to death, but geez...that character is stupid lol
At least I made some money $~$
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FlAlex
Smash Journeyman
Congrats! Good place to...place.
Looks like someone is an excellent coach!
With Marth/Lucina, you have to be patient. I don't think you can be patient enough with either of them. I would love to be proved wrong but the matches I just had against a great Lucina and my time with Marth leads me to believe that both must be played like all the other heavy weight characters (Ganon, Ike). Patiently and extremely safely.
On beating Diddy, try watching some vids from other tourneys to see what Diddy's are susceptible too. You won't find one of Marth against Diddy but the vids should be helpful anyways. I find that the best ways with dealing with Diddys is to use spot-dodge a lot and to pick up his banana. Then, either keep it to stop him from spawning another or use it against him. If you feel comfortable enough try to grab the banana right after Diddy tosses it above him. I've seen that trick used in one of those vids I was talking about. Another thing, practice DI-ing out of Diddy's combos and never challenge them in the air unless you catch them in the air and have the greater range (which will be rare for Marths). So basically, as marth, beat them to their banana if possible and play patiently. Have you tried finding someone to main just for this match up? Maybe Marth just isn't great against Diddy design wise.
Doesn't marth have a shield breaker for shield spamming monkeys?
One last thing: will that vid be uploaded via Youtube?
Hope I helped and have a great night!
Yes it will be uploaded to YouTube, hopefully within 24 hours
Man...I was writing up this long reply...then my phone died. ;/ I'll reply more when I'm home.
I'm happy I placed but I wanted another shot at the wii fit trainer. I felt like I actually had a chance unlike diddy lol.
Marth playing liking a heavy...ugh I hope thats not true. It seems like Marth has no other choice though, the risk of going in and making a mistake is so freaking costly vs diddy. I dislike having to play so defensively and "safely".
I tried going sonic but going in was an issue. I *could* go in, but if I made a mistake I ate so much damage. For every 5 reads I had to do, he just need one roll dash grab punish to even it up. I had to constantly read him in neutral to get anything. The thing is he plays very patient (like I taught him to), waiting and baiting. He won't randomly side-b at me or throw a banana at me praying he'll hit me or just dash grab at me, he'll wait and force me to read his reaction to my approach. In all honesty I may just use diddy for that mu for now until I get a wii U and can actually freaking practice.
Roll away and dash grab. Spotdodge and dash grab again. If rolls had more cooldown/everybody can roll forwards dash grab punish people it wouldn't be so bad. But diddy can literally roll away from you as you approach, then dash grab your approach. The only other people who can do that are falcon and sonic i believe, and neither can do as much to you as diddy can nor have a projectile.
Getting in was hell as marth. Especially when he had a banana in hand. I feel like still trip when you're shielding sometimes and if I held shield to long I got grabbed. -sigh-...next time I'll play more patient I guess. I actually wanna try mario out. Fireball fireball--> read his reaction to me.
I think I have the mentality of brawl marth where he had all the tools necessary to deal with pretty much any situation and it was just up to you to use them, you can win any mu without significantly having to outplay the opponent. Just play smart and know your options. No I feel its like I'm working with a limited tool kit ;/
Vs other characters I feel fine as marth, I don't get this wtf I can't do anything feeling. It's only vs diddy.
I try to go in, he rolls away, grabs me. The times I do get a grab go for an aerial I throw him he airdodge upairs immediately...okay next time i get a grab throw him bait the airdodge...no airdodge and he fairs it hits my shield and pushes me out of grab range...I'm basically trying to say I have to take into account all that Diddy just has to roll grab upair nana throw side b my shielding and gg.
Patient Marth vs patient diddy...marth has to really outplay diddy in order to win this. even if both players read each other 50% of the time, the diddy will probably 2stock the marth just because the risk/reward factor is so heavily in diddies favor. I really really really hate this mu.
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I would *definitely* be interested in thisI was bored today and decided to do something somewhat productive. In essence, I compiled the character landing lag frame data from this thread and made a simple tool in excel. You pick the character and you will be able to see the frame data for the landing lag of each move. You can also see how much time, in seconds rounded down to four decimal spaces, that your character will be inactive. There might be some errors if there is frame data that I entered incorrectly but that can easily be changed if anyone notices it. Regardless a quick preview:
If anyone would be interested in this let me know. I know it will be helpful for me on the long run. If only I could find every characters frame data, I could make a similar tool for that.![]()
Well done
Flamecircle
Smash Apprentice
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- May 19, 2008
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- 154
Hey guys, people keep saying that Marth's range is shorter. However, I've heard a lot of people say that his range is definitely not shorter around here. Is there any definitive evidence that can prove either side right that I could wave around in order to stop the spread of misinformation?
JingleJangleJamil
Banned via Warnings
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Ugh, just when I thought my Marth was good against ZSS I get ****ing destroyed by someone using her over and over and over. I swear sometimes I just feel like quitting smash before I even start going to tournaments. I try to punish her,but her moves are so ****ing safe and lag-less that I can't do anything. I can't play aggressively because I am just going to get grabbed by her while I am like 30 miles away from her. What is Marth supposed to do against her? Not only does the MU feel impossible,but it feels like a bad Mu for just about any character. Everyone is saying Diddy is to strong,but I feel that way about ZSS.
JingleJangleJamil
Banned via Warnings
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I don't really know, my secondary is Falcon, and he kinda covers a lot of Marth's bad MUs from my experience.
LordShade67
Smash Ace
Sheik. Or Diddy, if you wanna go lol easy mode.
Flamecircle
Smash Apprentice
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Does the post contain hard enough evidence to overcome the "he said she said" part?
but if zss grabs you you don't die...
what moves is she doing? you can probably DB1 her before they even come out. Are you using dtilt to stuff approaches? if she's approaching aerially just retreat sh nair/fair. If you feel like your going to get grabbed from across the stage spotdodge.
Flamecircle
Smash Apprentice
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Nice, thanks. Is there a brawl one of these too that I can directly compare with?
yup look further down in the thread at shayas post
Akira213
Smash Cadet
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- Dec 5, 2014
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Sheik and Diddy certainly are the first to come to mind. I'm hoping to find one that's high tier but perhaps still unconventional since people are going to have a lot of experience in Sheik and Diddy match-ups. How well do you think would Pikachu compliment him?Sheik. Or Diddy, if you wanna go lol easy mode.
Sonic. Sonic is the answer
Owangepuffs
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2014
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- 14
Pit makes for a might fine sub for a Marth main. Maybe it's the personal experience talking, but I generally find that Pit can handle everything Marth can't. Or I'm just better with Pit and I'm frauding up the Marth boards with my presence.
LordShade67
Smash Ace
I....don't know enough about Pikachu to make an opinion there, so...yeah.
TheGoldMan
Smash Journeyman
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FlAlex
Smash Journeyman
I would suggest Sonic, Sheik, Capt. Falcon, Fox, ZSS, and, in theory, Link and MM (safe projectiles).