Official Seizon Senryaku: Marth General

[Emblem Lord]

Pit is slower with less mobility overall and less killing tools. He is also less safe overall. But he has more range on his grounded pokes slightly and contols alot of space with arrows. His recovery is better but less threatening.

If you are good with Marth, you can see results with Pit as well. Just gotta put in the time.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

More of a style MU question, but...

Anyone have any thoughts on dealing with very patient, defensive players? *Not* dumb ones, but actual good players who aren't going to open themselves up for silly punishes for no reason. I find myself getting way too predictable against players who *never* approach and just feel completely stymied. I know it'll depend highly on character, but what's a good range to keep them at? What kind of situations should I be looking to create and with what moves?

With Marth don't focus on waiting for you opponent to leave themselves open, you want to FORCE them to leave themselves open by tricking them into doing things they will think is safe, THAT is when you want to punish those types players.

 

[Zano]

don't use pit, use dark pit, that's where the real **** is at. You get an acoustic guitar for your victory, pit **** doesn't get that plus his voice makes you wanna kill yourself.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

don't use pit, use dark pit, that's where the real **** is at. You get an acoustic guitar for your victory, pit **** doesn't get that plus his voice makes you wanna kill yourself.

Honestly I like Pit's voice,because in KI:U his voice kind of helped show Pit's personality in that game,but I guess in smash they can't really have too much personality with the characters.

 

[Zano]

how do you find his shrill girl voice pleasant in any form

 

[FlAlex]

how do you find his shrill girl voice pleasant in any form

How do you put up with DP's emo-punk*** attitude?

 

[Zano]

well him not sounding like a shrill 12 year old girl is a good start.

 

[Foodies]

Have you tried pit? I did and thought he was too slow :/ I'm a big fan of sonic though, which is funny considering their vastly different play styles.

I have played a few matches with Pit/Dark Pit, but not seriously as replacement characters. I do okay with them but always have trouble killing. My second most played character is Kirby but he just dies way too early for my tastes. I might look more into Shulk (mostly because my main doubles partner is a Kirby), but I have a feeling that Marth will always be my main.

 

[kj22]

I like how shulk feels as well, just he cannot handle pressure ;/ Oh who's your doubles partner? Btw your avi is super cute

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

I want to see how I stack up in comparison to you other Marth mains on here, you guys can msg me if you want to play against me. I want you to tell me how to get better with Marth.

 

[Foodies]

I like how shulk feels as well, just he cannot handle pressure ;/ Oh who's your doubles partner? Btw your avi is super cute

My doubles partner is BlazerKirby. I think he's one of the best Kirbies now but that's not really saying much since no one uses Kirby lol. And thanks :D

I want to see how I stack up in comparison to you other Marth mains on here, you guys can msg me if you want to play against me. I want you to tell me how to get better with Marth.

I'm always willing to Marth ditto (provided I don't have a bunch of work to do). It was my favorite MU in Brawl and is probably still in Smash 4 + Lucina. I don't check Smashboards that often though and it's easier contacting me through Skype if you have it.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

My doubles partner is BlazerKirby. I think he's one of the best Kirbies now but that's not really saying much since no one uses Kirby lol. And thanks :D



I'm always willing to Marth ditto (provided I don't have a bunch of work to do). It was my favorite MU in Brawl and is probably still in Smash 4 + Lucina. I don't check Smashboards that often though and it's easier contacting me through Skype if you have it.

I have skype,but I don't have a mic,so I can only type and listen. I cannot guarantee I will bother to contact you on Skype since I only use it when I am playing something like Minecraft and I want to be able to communicate with players I am teamed up with.

 

[Reizilla]

If Lucina could just have tipper on bair, I would be so much happier with her.

 

[kj22]

If Lucina could just have tipper on bair, I would be so much happier with her.

Why not use marth

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Why not use marth

Lucina is a waifu

 

[Shaya]

Day 3 -

Back to Marth. I didn't really falter, but I've been conflicted all over. Mixed opponents yet again has helped me a lot I think. Opportunities for diddy/sheik practise is low atm, hopefully will change.

Up Air.
Forward Tilt

Getting dancing blade back in there. For whatever reason I completely lost the ability to DB on the flight over. Successfully inputting it at all (like even the side-b part) is feeling good because my game was quite depressing without it.
oh yeah, aerial dancing blade

General realisations about playing in neutral/slowing it down. Back to mid range game play / brawlish style thinking perhaps. I really have been out of competitive practise for way too long I think

Seriously cannot ****ing WAIT for buffs that are hopefully auto cancel frame related.

 

[kj22]

Lucina is a waifu

Marth is a prettier waifu

 

[kj22]

Day 3 -

Back to Marth. I didn't really falter, but I've been conflicted all over. Mixed opponents yet again has helped me a lot I think. Opportunities for diddy/sheik practise is low atm, hopefully will change.

Up Air.
Forward Tilt

Getting dancing blade back in there. For whatever reason I completely lost the ability to DB on the flight over. Successfully inputting it at all (like even the side-b part) is feeling good because my game was quite depressing without it.

General realisations about playing in neutral/slowing it down. Back to mid range game play / brawlish style thinking.

Seriously cannot ****ing WAIT for buffs that are hopefully auto cancel frame related.

We can keep seeing of that day...I'd it comes I'll cry tears of joy haha.

What's got you,so conflicted?

Up airs go some crazy range. I keep forgetting about ftilt and jab.

What realizations? Expand, I'm curious to hear your thoughts!

 

[Shaya]

Swinging to hit at the right time being ever more important. Picking more appropriate moves to swing with.
Conflicted because there's just no way in hell to be consistent with that against the likes of dash grab ****ers like Diddy (and kinda ness), and Sheik is just a ludicrous character (although her inability to kill is such a godsend).

Up tilt is basically Marth's jab.
Untippered forward tilt is great for maintaining a positional/frame advantage.

Grab
grab
grab
grab
grab

like god dash grabs are great (on like... everyone).

Convincing more and more people that Marth isn't "bottom tier".
Whoops.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

I was thinking that if they buff marth, what way should he get buffed but still feel like "Marth"?

At first I was thinking, he could use a little more range (and I mean like a tiny bit, like the equivalent of the length of his tipper or so). But nah, that would cause a little more overlap with other swordsmen (shulk is the extreme range guy, ike is a longer range guy), etc. He still does have more range in general than non-swordsmen, though not by a lot.

Probably not power, because he's not really lacking that and I always thought of Marth more as a graceful, flowing type of character than a power type, even though he is slightly slower and more punish oriented than the speedies in each game.

In smash 4, it feels like his attacks, aerials especially, cover more area than in Brawl, and it looks quite beautiful. So even if his reach isn't much longer than non-sword characters, he still covers a big area with his attacks, which helps him be more flexible and follow up and weave in and out of things.

But I feel like, especially since he feels a bit weak right now, his ability to punish and follow up isn't that great. He can juggle a bit, do some reads, DB1 into FF nair into fsmash or something occasionally, but i feel like being punished by marth isn't that scary. Like, I really love seeing melee marth combos (sometimes seen in brawl but not to the extent in melee ofc), where you're juggling some guy repeatedly (less so the ones that are true combos, but the ones that need some reading) and then finish it off with a fsmash or something. I don't feel like marth can really do that at all in smash 4, only very rarely if you read very well.

So what if they just increased his hitstun a little?

 

[kj22]

Swinging to hit at the right time being ever more important. Picking more appropriate moves to swing with.
Conflicted because there's just no way in hell to be consistent with that against the likes of dash grab ****ers like Diddy (and kinda ness), and Sheik is just a ludicrous character (although her inability to kill is such a godsend).

Up tilt is basically Marth's jab.
Untippered forward tilt is great for maintaining a positional/frame advantage.

Grab
grab
grab
grab
grab

like god dash grabs are great (on like... everyone).

Convincing more and more people that Marth isn't "bottom tier".
Whoops.

Dash grabs are amazing. Iseverybody's dash buffed, or is this list new engine physics? I feel like dash grabs are more guaranteed now, could be increased shield time who knows.
What throw are you generally using and what Ru following up with/looking for?

Definitely agree with swinging at right time. Its funny because I just made a thread saying exactly what you did a few minutes ago.

Yeah you have to consistently outread them, and for that to happen you have to be much, much better than them. Diddy gets sooo much free stuff (air traps come to mind). Neutral is basically "how long till he gets in on me?"

I won't be surprised if down the line this mu for marth becomes "stay by the ledge, bthrow and attempt to gimp" lol

Something you may be able to test is if our standing grab best his dash grab (oh yes, yet another great thing about diddy, good grab range). I've been working on shielding the baba and grabbing the diddy as he tries to grab me, only monkey flip/roll behind easily beats this...but at least it stops the grab. Any thing but the grab please.

How is uptilt the new jab >.>

Yeah no many people are waaay too hasty with judging characters. Falco comes to mind. Palutena. Fox.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Dash grabs are amazing. Iseverybody's dash buffed, or is this list new engine physics? I feel like dash grabs are more guaranteed now, could be increased shield time who knows.
What throw are you generally using and what Ru following up with/looking for?

Definitely agree with swinging at right time. Its funny because I just made a thread saying exactly what you did a few minutes ago.

Yeah you have to consistently outread them, and for that to happen you have to be much, much better than them. Diddy gets sooo much free stuff (air traps come to mind). Neutral is basically "how long till he gets in on me?"

I won't be surprised if down the line this mu for marth becomes "stay by the ledge, bthrow and attempt to gimp" lol

Something you may be able to test is if our standing grab best his dash grab (oh yes, yet another great thing about diddy, good grab range). I've been working on shielding the baba and grabbing the diddy as he tries to grab me, only monkey flip/roll behind easily beats this...but at least it stops the grab. Any thing but the grab please.

How is uptilt the new jab >.>

Yeah no many people are waaay too hasty with judging characters. Falco comes to mind. Palutena. Fox.

I really feel like there are no truly terrible characters. Like the equivalent of the balance in smash 4 compared to brawl tiers would be high to lower mid. Like pikachu/DDD/zss to shiek/ness/yoshi. I feel like even saying "bottom tier" is really misleading, it used to mean that they were utter **** but every character has some kind of strengths going for them, even if arguably it isn't much or not enough.

I agree with falco though, at first it seemed he was really bad, but he's had some strengths that have been overlooked (people keep trying to look at a character and only examine things that were good from previous games, without paying attention to buffs in new areas too often). I'm a palu main, she has a great punish game and can get some reaaally early kills. Fox is looking very solid as usual, maybe even top 10.

 

[Shaya]

I choose to up tilt instead of jab because it reaches further faster than jab and is safe on hit and knocks them up for juggle type opportunities.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

Lucina is a waifu

Palutena is da bess waifu. Second best is a tie between ZSS and female WFT for me,but lets not turn this into "Waifu War II: Electric Boogaloo".

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Palutena is da bess waifu. Second best is a tie between ZSS and female WFT for me,but lets not turn this into "Waifu War II: Electric Boogaloo".

Omg you are so right, I main Palu cus she is a waifu, though Lucina is a very close one, and I'd put her at 2nd


Also I rewatched penguindrum a couple weeks ago, holy **** it's way less complex than I thought the first time i watched it, i was getting distracted by the wrong things and not paying enough attention even though the show explains to you just enough and even explains a lot of the symbolism explicitly and directly to the viewer. Or maybe it's also partly the subs to blame (or also that it doesn't repeat explanations)

Anyway I really liked it the first time I saw it, really emotional and charming and all despite me feeling lost, but man the 2nd time i watched it... damn... holy ****, ez masterpiece to me. Not that it's perfect but that it's a great story and a very impressive work considering the visuals, animation, characters, story, music, homages and references, etc. Lots of subtlety, messages, themes, commentary, and fun.

Also enjoyed it as much or even more the 2nd time I watched it, it holds up really well IMO. Teared up at the end ;;

SEIZON SENRYAKU, shimashou ka?

 

[Starcutter]

Hey Marth mains.

get ready for the most amazing thing ever.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Hey Marth mains.

get ready for the most amazing thing ever.

Lolol. Nice music.

 

[Reizilla]

Why not use marth

Because with Lucina, I can use two waifus at once.

 

[kj22]

I choose to up tilt instead of jab because it reaches further faster than jab and is safe on hit and knocks them up for juggle type opportunities.

I did this today and was astonished at how low uptilt hits at. It has become my new jab as well.

 

[Random4811]

You know what would be a cool buff? Auto canceling utilt.

 

[Phantom High]

Lately whenever i grab onto the ledge as Marth,,i fall then do an uair and come back to the ledge.
can't tell if this is practical, but i do like it

 

[Locuan]

So for some reason I just realized today that there is a small time window after the Fair animation ends that I can fast-fall without having the landing lag for the move. I should have noticed earlier since the animations for other moves can come out. Anyways, I will be incorporating that into my play. It helps tremendously. I was remaining vulnerable for a few seconds until I touched the ground. Now I can limit that somewhat. Also, the more I use shield-breaker, the less I want to use dash assault.

 

[Random4811]

It is only when I face my sparring partner that I realize how garbage I am. He was playing probably his worst Ness possible, and trashing me with good reads. It was 2-1 for a while, until I taught him how to not use Ness like garbage again(he is a little rusty, not having been able to play all week or last week), and then it was more so 2-0. And then he pulled out his ZSS, I believe it was 2-1 and 2-0 before we finally stopped playing.

How did you guys overcome the overwhelming desire to quit because you're bad? I want to play competitively, go to tourneys, etc. badly. But I'm a trash player.

 

[BatShark]

Being bad right now is actually kind of an encouraging thing, in some ways. Let me explain.

It has *never* been a better time to be a bad Smash player looking to improve. Yeah, Smashboards has always been there, you could get your hands on some games through the old file sharing stuff, but think how easy it is to find video of multiple people playing your character well in competitive settings. Or how easy it is to save and review your own replays.

We also have the advantage of being able to play thinking opponents, literally as often as you desire. Sure, FG and online aren't perfect, but they're immensely useful tools that just didn't exist before. (I don't count Brawl's online as a functioning asset.)

If your analytical skills are ahead of your game skills, and you make use of all the resources out there these days, you can always be in a position to be *actively improving* something about your game, however small. That's so awesome!

Never been a better time to be at the bottom of the mountain, man, that's what you should be thinking about.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Being bad right now is actually kind of an encouraging thing, in some ways. Let me explain.

It has *never* been a better time to be a bad Smash player looking to improve. Yeah, Smashboards has always been there, you could get your hands on some games through the old file sharing stuff, but think how easy it is to find video of multiple people playing your character well in competitive settings. Or how easy it is to save and review your own replays.

We also have the advantage of being able to play thinking opponents, literally as often as you desire. Sure, FG and online aren't perfect, but they're immensely useful tools that just didn't exist before. (I don't count Brawl's online as a functioning asset.)

If your analytical skills are ahead of your game skills, and you make use of all the resources out there these days, you can always be in a position to be *actively improving* something about your game, however small. That's so awesome!

Never been a better time to be at the bottom of the mountain, man, that's what you should be thinking about.

Yeah, just the inclusion of a matchmaking system is amazing. Literally. Like, now I don't have to find people to come over and play, and worry about things like "is he getting boring of me playing this character or practicing this certain thing" or like "is he getting annoyed and I have to play differently now" or like "am I owning him too hard" etc. You can just focus solely on yourself and improving.

 

[Locuan]

Call me old-fashioned but I prefer having friends over and playing Smash that way. For me it is better to sit down in my living room and have someone as my opponent in the same room. That way, I can turn to him/her and ask what I am doing wrong and what I can do to improve. And the same applies to them if they have a question. Of course, the matchmaking system is great, especially if you live in an area that does not have a smash community.

 

[vato_break]

In my opinion, I think spiking with marth on the left side of the stage is not only better but a lot easier.

 

[Random4811]

In my opinion, I think spiking with marth on the left side of the stage is not only better but a lot easier.

I dont personally see how it would make a difference. If there is something in the code that I just don't know about that makes Marth more partial to the left, then I guess? But it seems to me that neither side matters.

 

[Zano]

Marth is a prettier waifu

 

[warionumbah2]

Lucina is a waifu

Take this waifu shizz off our lawn.