Official Seizon Senryaku: Marth General

[Random4811]

I was going to,but then you guys told me that there already is an MU thread. I feel like an MU thread should be more in the form of a guide where the OP tells you all the info in one place, without having to scroll through a bunch of posts. I can make something like that if the mods approve me doing so, even though there already is one.

Lucina's MU thread is beautiful. Link's is pretty cool too.

 

[Locuan]

I can work on a match-up thread like the one I made for Lucina if you guys want. That can keep things organized. You will have to give me some time though as Im currently traveling overseas.

Edit:

@ JingleJangleJamil if you want to make an organized match-up thread go for it. There are a lot of good threads on the other character boards that you can use as templates. Remember they have to be updated consistently. I would not have any trouble making one myself though so let me know what you decide to do.

 

[Shaya]

So.. Marth...
play him at the ledge ala M2K in Melee against Fox on FD. Rolling through him is too much risk in this scenario, and in every other stage position, rolling into him is too free of a positional advantage/free punish a lot of the time for Marth to deal with.

Shieldbreaker is likely our only "game changing" move. I've started to get comfortable with charging it long enough to get to the second stage of the charge, which is sufficient to break every shield I find (it does like 13%? damage). How people start to respect shieldbreaker as you camp in and around the ledge gets results.

But yeah, Marth is pretty awful in this game. He could be mid tier. But now horizontal and fall speeds have come out I'm just like "yeah..........................................."
I'm fighting through it, but it's the truth, he may not be viable. Sheik's fair is better than our entire moveset practically, and that match up isn't going anywhere but down, it's the MK match up in Brawl without the grab combos and MK now has a transcended priority fast/comboable long range projectile, JOY. Diddy is fine, until they camp you hard enough because Marth has very little to force pressure against a character who only needs to shield, roll and dash grab for stocks.

His rolls, dodges and shield are game-implied options Marth needs to be able to win against "projectile characters" (i.e. everyone, projectiles or not because he has no approach and his attacks are huge commitments, even down tilt), but his dash to shield is the worse in the game, his spot dodge is in the worst caste of the game, an average or below average roll. His dash grab is mildly good, but nothing to write home about.
Marth's moveset requires specific scenarios to be able to succeed (cause opponents to respect your moveset), but all of his character specifics are AVERAGE except for walking... which seems to take a lot longer to reach maximum speed and has much harsher turn around mechanics. His attack speed is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overnerfed (as I start to compare to Mario, Diddy, Sheik, etc; it feels like Sakurai/Namco didn't want Marth being anything other than a counter and shieldbreaker spammer for wifi kids), and the lack of auto cancels on top of this means he just... doesn't have any moves he can use to beat good characters other than punishing whiffs with roll/dodge baits... Every aerial we use is a free dash grab or dash attack; at the very least close to 65:35 scenario in the opponent's favour. So we cannot afford to swing our sword or jump ever... just roll, hold shield and spot dodge and hope for whiffs...

So yeah, right now, I'm playing Marth with a rolldodge spam-like game, because none of his moves actually challenge good characters directly, he loses out to them all unfortunately... It's quite daunting. Thank **** for tipper forward smash or shield breaker... without these two moves having such HUGE rewards, this character would be one of the most nerfed in Smash history tbqh, Captain Falcon/Jigglypuff from melee to brawl level treatment (so not 64 to melee kirby treatment).

 

[warionumbah2]

I have been gravitating away from Marth lately, at first i was testing MM and Jiggz but then i completely abandoned Marth altogether without even noticing. If Marth is as bad as Shaya states then i feel very very bad for Lucina like Jebus Krist.

Not to mention there won't be anymore patches apparently, at least Marth isn't Mr Game and Watch/Wii Fit Trainer bad.

 

[Shaya]

Eh, I am playing the best players on the planet, so the fact that they use "just change character" when I ask for advice is something that weighs heavily on my conscious. The game requires me to use dodges in a way I haven't needed to in Brawl before, so it is something I'm not too comfortable with as the other good players. Positioning is way too important in this game and I'm behind the meta in that too.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

If I am going to make a MU thread we are going to have to take a week to discuss the MU for Marth against a specific character. Maybe a week is too much? What do you think?

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

Yeah Marth is pretty bad in this game in comparison to other characters. I still play the best with him though. If we want to keep using Marth we are just going to have to put up with his nerfs. Why did they even nerf Marth? Sure, he was top tier in both Melee and Brawl,but he wasn't broken. It sucks that we are not going to get another balance patch, because that of course means that Diddy is going to stay the way he is with that stupid up-air and the bad characters are going to stay bad.

 

[kj22]

*snip*

ahhh you're finally coming around...I felt most of this the minute I played him in the Wii U version, and even more so vs. diddy and I suspect vs the other top tiers like you've experienced. Marth is still viable, just not vs high tiers imo.

I do wish Marth had a viable approach/a way to force reaction/approaches. You have to play patiently vs the top tiers and hope they mess up. I feel like it's kind of karma from brawl, where opponents had to wait for Marth to mess up to stand a chance lol.

It hurts, but it is what it is. I don't see any Marth only mains winning anything big, a secondary is definitely gonna be needed.

He's not that bad. Just vs top tiers it really makes him feel that way. One thing the top tiers all have in common? Speed.

 

[Locuan]

@ JingleJangleJamil if you want you can let me handle the thread since I already know how to work with it. However, if you want to go ahead and create it I recommend a 2 or 3 day period to discuss a specific match-up, a week is too much time at the moment.

EDIT:
@ Shaya , I do not know what to say. I know you are looking at it from the competitive mindset, and when there are clear limits to a character things can seem dire. However, I still think the meta-game is incredibly young. And things will shift. Yes we can see a pattern now but eh. Regardless, I will be playing the top players from Puerto Rico this month so I will have a better idea of how the game looks like from a competitive standpoint in the following week.

EDIT 2: The math is there. And it's hard to argue against the math. But I don't want to say X or Y thing yet. Plus I love Marth and Lucina's play-style. I know you are playing against some of the best players in the world right now but I guess is that I just don't want to believe you just yet D:

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth only loses to top tiers but if thats all you fight he seems WAY worse then what he actually is.

If all matches were equal he would seem fine which he is. He is just..fine. Average. Regular. Aight. Run of the mill. Decent.

But if you only fight Sheiks and all your sparring partners tell you to switch then yeah he will seem worse.

Shaya do whats right for you. I hated Brawl and stopped playing it. If you don't like Marth or he is holding you back then don't play him out of some sense of pride or w/e.

Do what makes you happy.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

@ JingleJangleJamil if you want you can let me handle the thread since I already know how to work with it. However, if you want to go ahead and create it I recommend a 2 or 3 day period to discuss a specific match-up, a week is too much time at the moment.

EDIT:
@ Shaya , I do not know what to say. I know you are looking at it from the competitive mindset, and when there are clear limits to a character things can seem dire. However, I still think the meta-game is incredibly young. And things will shift. Yes we can see a pattern now but eh. Regardless, I will be playing the top players from Puerto Rico this month so I will have a better idea of how the game looks like from a competitive standpoint in the following week.

EDIT 2: The math is there. And it's hard to argue against the math. But I don't want to say X or Y thing yet. Plus I love Marth and Lucina's play-style. I know you are playing against some of the best players in the world right now but I guess is that I just don't want to believe you just yet D:

I feel I should make it, I want to contribute to our community,but if I am not the one in charge of the OP, then I can't really contribute much to the discussion part of it, since I don't feel I have enough knowledge from experience on the MUs to say something that doesn't make me look like I have no idea what I am talking about.

On a side note: I have noticed when it comes to dealing damage with Marth, the best way to do it is by juggling your opponent. You guys probably realized this a long time ago,but I am just saying this in case you guys didn't know. D-throw is an obvious combo starter,but from what I have seen up-tilt is HEAVILY under-utilized. I just played a Marth ditto and got a very fast KO by doing: Tipper up-tilt > sour spot up-air > sour spot up-air > Tipper f-smash, and bam that was a KO. With that short and easy combo I took them from 45%-Death. It is very likely to be DI-able,but if you can get it you shall be rewarded.

 

[Locuan]

I feel I should make it, I want to contribute to our community,but if I am not the one in charge of the OP, then I can't really contribute much to the discussion part of it, since I don't feel I have enough knowledge from experience on the MUs to say something that doesn't make me look like I have no idea what I am talking about.

Of course, go for it! Don't worry you will learn along the way regarding match-ups.

 

[Random4811]

I feel I should make it, I want to contribute to our community,but if I am not the one in charge of the OP, then I can't really contribute much to the discussion part of it, since I don't feel I have enough knowledge from experience on the MUs to say something that doesn't make me look like I have no idea what I am talking about.

On a side note: I have noticed when it comes to dealing damage with Marth, the best way to do it is by juggling your opponent. You guys probably realized this a long time ago,but I am just saying this in case you guys didn't know. D-throw is an obvious combo starter,but from what I have seen up-tilt is HEAVILY under-utilized. I just played a Marth ditto and got a very fast KO by doing: Tipper up-tilt > sour spot up-air > sour spot up-air > Tipper f-smash, and bam that was a KO. With that short and easy combo I took them from 45%-Death. It is very likely to be DI-able,but if you can get it you shall be rewarded.

Problem is- that isnt a combo. It is a string. Utilt is new jab, everyone loves it.

 

[Zano]

To be fair I wouldn't really listen to most of those players since their only mindset is to win instead of develop a character, but either way Marths limits are fairly obvious, although the reward for winning makes it worth using him. I won't feel any satisfaction out of beating someone with dthrow > uair lol

 

[Emblem Lord]

if winning is your goal then guess what?

97% of the cast is WORTHLESS. Not just Marth.

 

[Zano]

Pretty much. It's much more fun to just play who you want and go as far with them as you can, you'll surprise yourself more and you won't hate the game like others.

 

[Shaya]

Marth is fun, his rewards are great. I'm working on him still constantly.
I still don't feel limited only by my character, yet.

 

[LoreLes]

I'm dedicated to this character even though he suffers from the top tier match ups. Even if you took his sword away, I'd still play him.

 

[Quickhero]

I feel like in general you shouldn't really give up on a character you want to play so soon. The game is still pretty new and I can definitely see some good Marth discovered when Smash 4 evolves. I'm definitely going to keep on using Marth and try to find something that can allow Marth to do decently against many top tier zoners and the like.

 

[Random4811]

I feel like even if a character is "bad" compared to the top tiers, you CAN still win with them. You just have to work EXTRA hard. Unless that character hard counters yours, you should be able to wade through the muk of even a bad MU. Its personal skill coupled with the character. Your skill can outweigh some of the character's flaws.

Example: I was playing FG the other day and I encountered a Diddy. I thought "****, I don't want to deal with this, I was just doing really well."
What happened? I trashed them. They were a good Diddy, did what Diddy mains should do, played the character well. I just outplayed them. It can happen. You just need to try extra hard.

And, @ Quickhero is right. The Meta is still young. We might find some hidden nugget that gives Marth an advantage. We've already got that ledge thing.

On a side note, That diddy messed up a tech ONCE, after a Fair near ledge, so I managed to get an early tipper fsmash on him. Missing tech's against Marth is super dangerous.

 

[Locuan]

So, I got the Match-up thread up and running. I hope you are all able to enjoy and help out in making it as awesome as I know you all can.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

I think Mr. E is an example of someone who is really good with Marth. Like @ Random4811 said, you just have to work extra hard. we just have to discover more with Marth. There is still a lot to learn about some of the weaker characters, you just have to innovate and see what works. I know we have already mentioned it,but b-reversal shieldbreakers are very useful, they can break shields without tippers or being charged at all and your opponent won't see it coming.

 

[Random4811]

I think Mr. E is an example of someone who is really good with Marth. Like @ Random4811 said, you just have to work extra hard. we just have to discover more with Marth. There is still a lot to learn about some of the weaker characters, you just have to innovate and see what works. I know we have already mentioned it,but b-reversal shieldbreakers are very useful, they can break shields without tippers or being charged at all and your opponent won't see it coming.

Yeah, so long as you mix up B reversed shield breakers with Dsmash and Pivot grabs/"Pivot canceled tilts" (or whatever the kids call it nowadays, you know, where you do your ftilt from pivot, yeah that) then you should be able to surprise your opponent with it even if you have used it on them before.

 

[kj22]

I feel like in general you shouldn't really give up on a character you want to play so soon. The game is still pretty new and I can definitely see some good Marth discovered when Smash 4 evolves. I'm definitely going to keep on using Marth and try to find something that can allow Marth to do decently against many top tier zoners and the like.

The problem isn't if marth can do decently vs top tiers, its the amount of work required and margin of error are heavily unfavorable for him. Assuming players of equal skill fighting, marth vs a top tier is gonna mean the marth player has to significantly outplay the oppenent. Diddy/shiek/Rosa can take less risks and have the same if not greater rewards as marth. Chances are if you're beating a top tier, there most likely less skilled then you are. Not always, but most likely.

When discussing matchups that's what were assuming, both players of equal skill who know their character and the mu, whos most likely going to come out on top.

Take a recent example-Mr. e vs m2k. Not to take Mr. He's win away from him, but look at the factors: unequal skill, one knows their character vastly greater than the other, and of course, it was played on WiFi, which Mr. E plays a lot of. So many factors went into the match.

Looking at it from a normal offline perspective, you would guess Mr. E wouldn't get bodied (marth is low yier/diddy is op/omg its m2k mindset). Taking into account these other factors however, you can easily see how m2k lost.

If the meet again in a few months offline and Mr. E convincingly wins, then holy crap there may be something going on here.

Until then, I remain optimistically skeptical. (;

 

[bksbestbwoy]

Pretty interesting to see the last page of discussion being on my boy and the reality of playing him in Smash 4. I feel like I want to consider moving away from Marth but I just don't click with anyone well enough in this series. Sure there are better characters but it just doesn't feel right not playing him. At the same time, I realize that this means I'll have to play a character who relies on psychological warfare to get his with no tools that force them into the mind games besides Shield Breaker. I just hate that feeling of getting mauled in the interim as I play.

 

[Akira213]

I don't mind too much all the nerfs Marth got in this game, it was pretty heavily expected after being top tier in Melee and Brawl. I'd be lying if I said it wasn't kind of salt in the wound on top of my Icies though. At the very least its interesting to be learning Marth from a completely new standpoint.

 

[LoreLes]

Despite all his nerfs, the tipper buff on Fsmash is enough for me to let it slide and adapt for the rest.

 

[Los4Muros]

I don't know where this question should go. I'm trying to learn how to play with Marth (never mained him before) and I'm guessing this must be an extremely n00b question but, how does the Dancing Blades work? If I tap the buttons to fast, the combo stops or all of the sudden a Shield Breaker comes out instead. Also, I try using the Up Dancing Blade to follow up with some Fair or Uair, but again, things come out wrong and I end up with a Up B instead. This is really annoying. I tried some things in practice and noticed that I have to wait some frames to push the button again, kind of like a rhythm (makes sense if it's a dance), but I want to understand what I'm doing wrong here. Tips? I read a guide, but it didn't clear this out.

 

[LoreLes]

I don't know where this question should go. I'm trying to learn how to play with Marth (never mained him before) and I'm guessing this must be an extremely n00b question but, how does the Dancing Blades work? If I tap the buttons to fast, the combo stops or all of the sudden a Shield Breaker comes out instead. Also, I try using the Up Dancing Blade to follow up with some Fair or Uair, but again, things come out wrong and I end up with a Up B instead. This is really annoying. I tried some things in practice and noticed that I have to wait some frames to push the button again, kind of like a rhythm (makes sense if it's a dance), but I want to understand what I'm doing wrong here. Tips? I read a guide, but it didn't clear this out.

Dancing blade comes out fast but you're probably messing up because of the hitstun it gives off. If you tap too fast Marth will just stop and you will have buffered either SB or Up B by what you're saying. Just push the button like a few frames after the initial hits.

 

[Random4811]

Pretty interesting to see the last page of discussion being on my boy and the reality of playing him in Smash 4. I feel like I want to consider moving away from Marth but I just don't click with anyone well enough in this series. Sure there are better characters but it just doesn't feel right not playing him. At the same time, I realize that this means I'll have to play a character who relies on psychological warfare to get his with no tools that force them into the mind games besides Shield Breaker. I just hate that feeling of getting mauled in the interim as I play.

You have some secondaries though, no? For me, it helps ease the pain. Especially since my top secondaries are Falcon, Jigs, and Fox. (With Kirby and now Shiek being the ones I am less experienced with.)

 

[Shaya]

Well Marth was top tier in two games because of his grab combos on the cast. He doesn't have anything close in this game. He would have been a lower high tier, maybe Peach-ish level in Brawl without stuff like grab release dair on MK and a free 25-40% from a grab at 0%, and various other things other characters didn't "have".

The issue is Sakurai not really realising this. Their '**** ups' shouldn't be considered for future games balance. Look at Ness; every character had a grab to a sub 10 frame move (usually a kill option) or regrab, he was still lower middle tier, and considered top tier in doubles in that game, remove the grab release and he could've possibly been towards high tier... in Smash 4 he was heavily buffed, as well as losing the lame options on him by the rest of the cast -> Suddenly tippity top tier (atm)~ Marth got hit in the opposite way. Sheik wasn't bad in Brawl, she just couldn't kill and had a really complicated/specific means of chaining high damage (ftilt staling) rather than grabbing; Sakurai buffed most of her moves, gave her an engine which she could shine in, horizontal shuttle loop and she now has the best character specs (she was sub average aerial mobility in Brawl, grab range, dodges, etc, now she's top 5)...

We get what we get. I wouldn't have been disappointed had the game been left as is (I currently think the game would be better/healthier if we played on the original version as they had vectoring which reduced diddy effectiveness by heaps, and also made Rosalina a counter to him and Ness), but I kinda got conned into thinking adjustments/patches would come in (they may still do!). But as we learn more about the game I'm seeing all the truths I saw when I hard studied Marth in Brawl; all of his specs in that game were top caste (spot dodge, aerial mobility, fast fall speed, dash-ish, walk, jump speed [rising speed], grab range, pivot grab range, auto cancels), he's average or worse in most of those stats now while other characters aren't, the characters who are top/high tier.
It isn't coincidence is what I'm getting at. Marth got the short end of the stick and it really either shows lack of foresight by the balance team or on purpose, guess what's most logical?

*rant rant*.
I'm still not at marth's best potential in this game. But he's severely limited; his moveset hits were actually pretty meagre tbh other than dancing blade and is not why he's weaker, it's everything else, literally a set of number values he's been chosen not to have. If he had brawl aerial mobility his retreating fair wouldn't be getting dash grabbed/punished by much of anyone; top tiers have safe aerials because of their low auto cancel frames (kinda ridiculous, they're better than their brawl auto cancels...? what's the point of a <5 frame move auto cancelling on frame 10-15) even on power shield.

 

[kj22]

Well Marth was top tier in two games because of his grab combos on the cast. He doesn't have anything close in this game. He would have been a lower high tier, maybe Peach-ish level in Brawl without stuff like grab release dair on MK and a free 25-40% from a grab at 0%, and various other things other characters didn't "have".

The issue is Sakurai not really realising this. Their '**** ups' shouldn't be considered for future games balance. Look at Ness; every character had a grab to a sub 10 frame move (usually a kill option) or regrab, he was still lower middle tier, and considered top tier in doubles in that game, remove the grab release and he could've possibly been towards high tier... in Smash 4 he was heavily buffed, as well as losing the lame options on him by the rest of the cast -> Suddenly tippity top tier (atm)~ Marth got hit in the opposite way. Sheik wasn't bad in Brawl, she just couldn't kill and had a really complicated/specific means of chaining high damage (ftilt staling) rather than grabbing; Sakurai buffed most of her moves, gave her an engine which she could shine in, horizontal shuttle loop and she now has the best character specs (she was sub average aerial mobility in Brawl, grab range, dodges, etc, now she's top 5)...

We get what we get. I wouldn't have been disappointed had the game been left as is (I currently think the game would be better/healthier if we played on the original version as they had vectoring which reduced diddy effectiveness by heaps, and also made Rosalina a counter to him and Ness), but I kinda got conned into thinking adjustments/patches would come in (they may still do!). But as we learn more about the game I'm seeing all the truths I saw when I hard studied Marth in Brawl; all of his specs in that game were top caste (spot dodge, aerial mobility, fast fall speed, dash-ish, walk, jump speed [rising speed], grab range, pivot grab range, auto cancels), he's average or worse in most of those stats now while other characters aren't, the characters who are top/high tier.
It isn't coincidence is what I'm getting at. Marth got the short end of the stick and it really either shows lack of foresight by the balance team or on purpose, guess what's most logical?

*rant rant*.
I'm still not at marth's best potential in this game. But he's severely limited; his moveset hits were actually pretty meagre tbh other than dancing blade and is not why he's weaker, it's everything else, literally a set of number values he's been chosen not to have. If he had brawl aerial mobility his retreating fair wouldn't be getting dash grabbed/punished by much of anyone; top tiers have safe aerials because of their low auto cancel frames (kinda ridiculous, they're better than their brawl auto cancels...? what's the point of a <5 frame move auto cancelling on frame 10-15) even on power shield.

Well if there's ever smash 5 maybe Marth will be top tier again.

Or maybe they'll ask the competetive scene to help them balance the game. I doubt they care though.

Don't forget Sakurai balanced the game primarily for ffa's as well...its not like its a specifically made competitive game (tekken, street fighter, KoF, etc). They have a totally different mindset than we do, as well as not knowing/caring about the intricacies of smash such as match-ups and the general metagame and the tier list. If somebody from the smash community actually helped them make the game then we'd see different results.

Try explaining everything you said to Sakurai/someone on the smash 4 staff and they'll give you a blank stare...they don't understand, nor do they care. They don't We'll probably never know the reasoning behind the things they did to Marth, but we'll deal with it and get through it.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

Well if there's ever smash 5 maybe Marth will be top tier again.

Or maybe they'll ask the competetive scene to help them balance the game. I doubt they care though.

Don't forget Sakurai balanced the game primarily for ffa's as well...its not like its a specifically made competitive game (tekken, street fighter, KoF, etc). They have a totally different mindset than we do, as well as not knowing/caring about the intricacies of smash such as match-ups and the general metagame and the tier list. If somebody from the smash community actually helped them make the game then we'd see different results.

Try explaining everything you said to Sakurai/someone on the smash 4 staff and they'll give you a blank stare...they don't understand, nor do they care. They don't We'll probably never know the reasoning behind the things they did to Marth, but we'll deal with it and get through it.

Yeah...I found it a little disrespectful how when someone (I don't remember who,but I am pretty sure it was a high profile player in the smash community) asked if they could help Sakurai with balancing the game, Sakurai responded with "Have you ever made a game?" I mean just look at Capcom, they get some of the best fighting game players to help out with balancing,but it seems Nintendo (or maybe just Sakurai) does not understand just how much more balanced the game could be if he would just let someone who knows what they are doing help out. If someone who played smash competitively was in charge of balancing we probably have a game where winning using the worst character against the best would be A LOT more possible. Sure, Marth was top tier in the past,but he was NOT broken.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

I've honestly felt that Marth was never anything approaching broken (although his Brawl incarnation had quite a few shades of ROFL between how the then new tippers worked, Sword Dance and Up B out of any attack pressure). His character design is one that doesn't have anything glaringly abusive and makes people work for the rewards. The Smash 4 changes just reek of change for the sake of change + a few straight up moments of ignorance working together to the benefit of no one.

The most he needed was to get his tippers toned down from Brawl. As much as Brawl Marth nair is like the button of God himself, stuff like that could have gotten a second look without me feeling any ways about it.

You have some secondaries though, no? For me, it helps ease the pain. Especially since my top secondaries are Falcon, Jigs, and Fox. (With Kirby and now Shiek being the ones I am less experienced with.)

I just really really enjoy Marth's (or previous Marths) play style and as such, it's rough in this game when a lot of the stuff I liked the character for just doesn't exist in any form either in himself or among the cast. My secondaries are all characters I can't see as more than secondaries or bonuses and it shows in how long I can play this game versus others when the Marf™ is available. FWIW though, Pit is probably my top secondary right now. I've also been fighting internally to pick someone between Zero Suit Samus and Greninja on days when I just want my speed back, but I can't seem to settle on one between the two.

 

[KillLock]

ITT: More lab time

Going to a tournament this weekend, hoping to do well. If there's a stream I'll make sure to send a link day of(Saturday)

 

[dizney]

I think something that really helps Marth is perfect pivoting. I've been toying with the tech a lot, and it seems that it sets up really nice and satisfying tippers more often than not. For example, if you read a diddy dash grab and pivot away, diddy is normally within perfect range of a tipper. Reading a yoshi dair and pivoting away into forward smash feels wonderful. Standing close to the ledge to bait a ledge get up attack and pivoting away leaves a perfect amount of room for a tipper.

These are all things I was toying with today, after just learning about it. I could be this being really beneficial for Marth. But then again I'm new to competitive so I wouldn't consider my opinion the best.

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vaR4RM-qr0 this is what I'm talking about for anyone who might not know

 

[kj22]

ITT: More lab time

Going to a tournament this weekend, hoping to do well. If there's a stream I'll make sure to send a link day of(Saturday)

Good luck man!

 

[Locuan]

@ KillLock Good luck on your tournament! Let us know how you do.

Yeah...I found it a little disrespectful how when someone (I don't remember who,but I am pretty sure it was a high profile player in the smash community) asked if they could help Sakurai with balancing the game, Sakurai responded with "Have you ever made a game?"

Wait did that actually happen? Eh, well I guess this reinforces how I believe Sakurai thinks of the community. And I don't want to think that way but still. His actions speak loudly. Along with the post @ Shaya made earlier, it's basically seen how he in the end, he might just have been thinking on how to make the characters play like they would in their games without taking balancing too much into consideration. I may be wrong but meh.

Also guys, I made a Q&A thread in order to remove most of the simple questions that have cluttered the board previously. If you want to add any questions/answers feel free to ask them there and help out other users that might as questions in the future.

 

[Foodies]

From the reports I have read, the person challenged Sakurai to a match and said if he won he would help balance the game. Which is kind of a ridiculous proposal if you think about it, and I thought how Sakurai responded was funny.

Characters playing like they would in their games doesn't make sense for nerfing Marth because his moves are exactly the same animation-wise. The switch from overhead shieldbreaker in Melee to stabbing shieldbreaker in Brawl made sense from that angle, but nothing like that was changed from Brawl to Smash 4. Marth isn't a slow character in the FE games; the changes seem to have been made from a game balancing perspective rather than from playing like they would in their games. My opinion anyway.

 

[Emblem Lord]

From the reports I have read, the person challenged Sakurai to a match and said if he won he would help balance the game. Which is kind of a ridiculous proposal if you think about it, and I thought how Sakurai responded was funny.

Characters playing like they would in their games doesn't make sense for nerfing Marth because his moves are exactly the same animation-wise. The switch from overhead shieldbreaker in Melee to stabbing shieldbreaker in Brawl made sense from that angle, but nothing like that was changed from Brawl to Smash 4. Marth isn't a slow character in the FE games; the changes seem to have been made from a game balancing perspective rather than from playing like they would in their games. My opinion anyway.

The person is infact my buddy juice.doom, a TO who lives in NJ. It happened at E3. Media and fanboys made a bid deal out of it.