Official Seizon Senryaku: Marth General

[Emblem Lord]

Eh. Prolly the same vs diddy. Imo its 4-6 in favor of diddy

 

[Shaya]

I really really really really don't feel Robin has any match ups to truly complain about. Difficulties, sure, but nothing completely shuts down a character with the option spread of swordsman plus long-range zoners (in fact I maintain this is one of the most overloaded characters out there, with at least sensible numbers to balance it out; I swear anything mildly buffed on Robin could turn this game/meta very ugly).

Robin's only "seemingly" hard match ups are against the perceived tippity TOP top tiers. And that's because majority of people playing robin right now just want to be able to shield grab those character's dash attacks or aerials

 

[PK Gaming]

nairo has gotten better at the MU since then and it was his first time fighting diddy, not really a valid source of info considering the difficulty barrier between the characters.

Not sure that's entirely accurate. Nairo's Robin got destroyed against Diddy in the recent Xanadu tournament (to the point where he had to switch to Dark Pit) and he's admitted that it's a rough matchup. That said, Nairo's stated that the matchup might be more manageable in the Wii U version.

I really really really really don't feel Robin has any match ups to truly complain about. Difficulties, sure, but nothing completely shuts down a character with the option spread of swordsman plus long-range zoners (in fact I maintain this is one of the most overloaded characters out there, with at least sensible numbers to balance it out; I swear anything mildly buffed on Robin could turn this game/meta very ugly).

Robin's only "seemingly" hard match ups are against the perceived tippity TOP top tiers. And that's because majority of people playing robin right now just want to be able to shield grab those character's dash attacks or aerials

Heh, maybe.

Sheik and Diddy definitely seem like disadvantages, and he struggles against some non tippity-top characters. Hell, I bet Marth is a tough matchup for Robin.

And what's wrong with wanting to shield grab their aerials and dash attacks (which tremendously aids in dealing with them?)

 

[Oblivion129]

Yesterday my Marth was terrible. I couldn't beat anybody. I wondered how my other characters were so much better than my Marth.
Today I saw a video about Melee Marth. It made me remember how to play him.

I feel a lot more comfortable using him now. I know it's not the same, but I combined this with the Gawain video about Marth in smash 4. He feels great to me now.

 

[Zano]

it was on wifi so yeah it's gonna be a lot harder to deal with diddy.

 

[Nairo]

Not sure that's entirely accurate. Nairo's Robin got destroyed against Diddy in the recent Xanadu tournament (to the point where he had to switch to Dark Pit) and he's admitted that it's a rough matchup. That said, Nairo's stated that the matchup might be more manageable in the Wii U version.



Heh, maybe.

Sheik and Diddy definitely seem like disadvantages, and he struggles against some non tippity-top characters. Hell, I bet Marth is a tough matchup for Robin.

And what's wrong with wanting to shield grab their aerials and dash attacks (which tremendously aids in dealing with them?)

Robin vs Diddy is pretty tough, doable but tough. Me and jtails agree but usually its who is playing better between us in our matches (this past weekend we were 2 stocking each other back and forth in the robin/diddy MU for like an hour) BUT it may be more manageable in the wii u version yes. Also I think robin > marth ive never had a problem with that MU yet at least.

 

[Random4811]

I see you guys sweating patches, but lets remember that this is Nintendo. They DO care about the quality of the game. Even though Namco had a hand in the development, I don't think they have much say in what happens now. I think we'll see patches on an as-needed basis (a game-breaking glitch is discovered, an in for PM is discovered, a game breaking character quirk is discovered, things like that.) If they released the game this way, I'll bet my hat that this is how Sakurai wanted it to come out, and I doubt he'll be wanting to majorly change anything about the characters.

Apart from that, I'm really having issues setting up with an aerial DB, do you guys have any tips? Its a full hop, right? Thats what I've been doing, at least, and to no avail. I wonder if I'm starting it too late, or what? Also, do you land with the DB and then go into SHFF Nair/Uair, or do you not? I've been trying to do it all in one hop, and its not been turning out well.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Robin vs Diddy is pretty tough, doable but tough. Me and jtails agree but usually its who is playing better between us in our matches (this past weekend we were 2 stocking each other back and forth in the robin/diddy MU for like an hour) BUT it may be more manageable in the wii u version yes. Also I think robin > marth ive never had a problem with that MU yet at least.

See Nairo. **** like this...makes me wanna take this game super serious.

Stop making me wanna take this game super serious damn you

 

[Shaya]

I shall proclaim this ... the "edge guarding" video

 

[Wraeith]

I shall proclaim this ... the "edge guarding" video

Definitely an inspiring display, even if you consider WFT's play questionable. Is that a custom move for Dancing Blades? I haven't seen it peformed that quickly before.

 

[_Relapse_]

 

[Zano]

Nairo is a namesearching fiend

 

[Shaya]

Definitely an inspiring display, even if you consider WFT's play questionable. Is that a custom move for Dancing Blades? I haven't seen it peformed that quickly before.

This is for glory, so no.

Time dancing blade inputs for the moment the "swoosh" particles come towards their ends.
Very questionable get up attacks from the ledge by that WFT, that's for sure

 

[Mono.]

So I have been playing Lucina all his time under the impression that she was in favor of aggression. But apparently Marth is more optimal for such due to hitlag differences. Have I really been living a lie for this past month?

 

[Shaya]

Yes, correct.

 

[Mono.]

Oh god I have betrayed my good prince

 

[Shaya]

That avatar is amazing though. Let's be best friends~

Do you go to tournaments in Japan?

 

[Mono.]

I wish. The prefecture I'm in doesn't really have anything good for smash. Though next year I'm going to mainland so I'm going to try to get into SHI-Gaming.

 

[_Relapse_]

Wait, are you sure? Robin versus Diddy is pretty miserable.


The one and only

Being noticed around the internet now. You've made it to the big leagues.

 

[Afro Smash]

I never realised his tipper was this strong ;-;

 

[Reizilla]

Does Marth's nair still do that thing where it gets stronger if you hit them later in the hitbox?

 

[Shaya]

^ I find it impossible to test this. I'm kinda not sure, as I'm actually killing people with tipper neutral air at reasonable percent.

Need two 3DSes and timing spot dodges basically. Not gonna bother.

Anyway went to my first 3DS tournament today and won.
Marth/Falco.

It's Nintendo 'sponsored' so I also am getting sent a Mario Amiibo and a free copy of the game sometime next week.
Forgot to save replays at first but I got a few, unfortunately half are Falco.

Being less impressed by dash assault as time goes on (essential for Rosalina still), but I'm seeing how godlike shieldbreaker is used optimally.


Anyway minor discoveries but
Dash Assault does more damage / knock back if started in the air. Crazy. I think this is also the case for all the shieldbreaker variations. Who knew?

Iai/Rush Counter has 3 frame start up rather than Counter's 5. That's crazy. Iai counter is so superior to regular counter, customs getting 'banned' sucks, I wish we could pick customs which are just universally superior in competitive play and make them 'replace' the defaults, haha. No reason whatsoever not to use Iai Counter I think.

Also not sure why easy counter exists at all, I think it only has 5 frames extra window (definitely not more) for such a huge difference and only 1 frame less ending lag.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I shieldbreaker i feel is just hard to set up for and you have to condition your opponent. Dashing assault you can kind of just do it and it has to be respected

 

[Shaya]

I would say shield breaker feels like a hyper replacement for Brawl nair.

I'm definitely better at using SB over DA at the moment, when I get around to the videos (my internet at home died and I'm now on wireless, need to be careful with bandwidth) you'll probably see how... kinda flailing fish out of water with it (DA). As a landing trap in some cases its like "wow, fantastic" vroom vroom.

Think it's going to be match up dependent.
Playing against Donkey Kong I can 2/3 stock it with Falco, but with Marth it's kinda last hit. It may be more player dependent and also the fact there weren't any customs involved on his side (DA for his tornado bull **** is probably essential?), but a good shielding game from DK doesn't really give you free DA's, and although I never got shield drop smash attacked for them hitting shield, I know I should have. Max range shield breaker and I power shielded his shield drop ftilt/dash attack (I went customless on the last match).

Although not thrown out at a tournament, I've heard of people using heavy blade besides myself while impressing others. Heavy blade in the air is 39 frames (55 on the ground) total, start ups 11 frames. I think against characters without a projectile, heavy blade may have some usages, the range of it is like 25% more than his sword's blade, and it doubles by the last hit. It can be kinda scary, I think slow/fat characters may legitimately not like dealing with it.

Either way,
I think Marth should probably have three or four sets (would've likely alternated through these rather than just 3113 on the day if I was bothered).
[always iai counter / dancing blade]
1. Dash Assault
2. Dash Assault + Dolphin Jump
3. Dolphin Jump (shield breaker)

Will probably all have match up usages. I think dolphin slash is kinda meh against Rosalina, and the distance she can recover from off stage is pretty much outside of our reach generally, so going deeper and potentially using dash assault against her off stage (her recoveries good, but its still telegraphed as ****) and getting back with dolphin jump will work out better for us.

I think fatties that don't have movement customs (e.g. bowser side b variations) on will prefer shield breaker, maybe even still with those in mind (you can control your position better with SB in the air).

 

[Kinslayer]

If sakurai is being influenced by namco, i expect a patch every 6 months. Not joking

Tekken tag hasn't had that many patches... Hell I don't think they have had balance changes at all.

 

[Foodies]

What are people's thoughts on Dash Attack in Smash 4? It seems mostly unchanged from Brawl, but maybe it's more usable since dash to DB is slower now?

 

[Shaya]

It's 10% untippered.
If you think you can hit someone with it for a punish, use it. Good, safe damage that doesn't really mess up your attack queue for kill moves (recommend using down smash as a fast punisher too for the same reason).

 

[PK Gaming]

I was struggling with him for a bit, but I think I finally got the hang of Marth. In addition to learning some helpful strats (thank you Marth boards) I finally reconciled the fact that I can't be aggro if I want the kill. I used to recklessly fish for kills, but playing patiently and letting the KO opportunity come to me has proven to be very fruitful.

Incidentally, landing a tipper forward tilt is the most gratifying thing ever. It is perhaps the most phonetically satisfying move ever created. It is a terse lyrical symphony of perfection.

*FORWARD TILT*

Is there a single move in the game that compares to it?

Oh right, tipper Forward Smash.

 

[Emblem Lord]

That forward tilt is a blessing. Wide arc, shuts down sh approaches, pretty safe at tipper range (only the fastest chars can punish), and its very threatening in footsies. This move alone is why none of marths nerfs bother me.

 

[Shaya]

Ftilt also tippers like everywhere, it's hard not to tipper with it.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

Hello! I'm not sure what you mean by "Interest in Marth",but if you mean why do we use him: I use him because I feel so satisfied when I land a tipper and I love just how honorable he is as a character. I have been playing Smash since as long as I can remember,so I can't really say exactly how long I've been playing... I'm 15 years old and I've never played Smash 64 and I never got into competitive Smash until about 2012 and I never tried to get serious until about a year before Sm4sh came out. I was never really a good Brawl player,but in Sm4sh I have to say I am pretty good. I have been able to manage with all of Marth's nerfs from Brawl,but I still miss that Fair without landing lag D: I don't really use Lucina at all,but I feel like Marth is better than her since even though he is harder to use, with enough skill he is MUCH better than her.

 

[Shaya]

IMO, Lucina is actually a lot harder to use than Marth.

She's the pinnacle of extra difficulty due to her being just that 10%-25% worse or the same in every scenario as Marth.

Welcome~

 

[Nike.]

Shaya, I got this in the mail today. The receiving name was Nike Sterling.

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net...=3cb8cc50730fe362236b035310fe19d6&oe=54D31937
[phallic imagery]

 

[Zano]

did you name it yet?

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

Marth should at least have his "RETS DANCE!" taunt hat was cut rom Melee.

To me it sounds more like "LES DANSS!" I feel like they should bring it in with a Sm4sh patch and ad it to his down taunt.

 

[Xinc]

To me it sounds more like "LES DANSS!" I feel like they should bring it in with a Sm4sh patch and ad it to his down taunt.

Side taunt makes more sense, since he's swinging his blade in a flashy manner.

 

[Archimedes]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=663701550417845

 

[Kinslayer]

1.0.4 patch is out my friends let's see what we have been given!

 

[Shaya]

Did anyone ever test to see what percent up air combo'd into things til prior to this patch?

I just got untippered uair to tipper uair comboing at 110% for a kill off the top at 130%. Combos into back air too at around this time (training mode combo).

Down throw uair comboing at 0%?
Frame perfect down throw up smash at 0% too?

Forward throw -> fair seems a lot more reliable and comboing properly up until 30%ish?

I never bothered to test any of this stuff before, but I'm hearing knockback changes are pretty common while other changes aren't too much (haven't been able to spot anything frame data / damage wise)

 

[Emblem Lord]

Dude im getting VERY consistent dthrow to uair combos now. I dont think it was like this before. I would have abused it otherwise.