Official Seizon Senryaku: Marth General

[Emblem Lord]

When the combo counter says 2 that means its a real combo.

 

[Foodies]

The thing is I can't seem to get the combo counter to say 2 for certain characters. More specifically Bowser, Charizard, and Bowser Jr.. I haven't tested all of them, but it works more often than it doesn't. For the ones I can't seem to get, it could just be me being bad/my circle pad failing.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Meh. I will test when i get home.

 

[Shaya]

Lag out of throws depends on their weight.
Very feasible that heavier characters just aren't very comboable.

Maybe at a mid percent it'll be enough hit stun to achieve things.

Otherwise, test to see (even if its in 1/4) if it registers as a combo if you turn around and then jump (so you hit with the earlier parts of uair rather than the later).

Obviously turning around after a throw is going to be hard, if you press jump it'll take that input over you holding left/right to buffer a turn around.

But eh, hold left/right on the throw, and learn to time a jump ;\

 

[Emblem Lord]

Thats very interesting

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Lucina-thread is a frigging mess so I'll just ask it here:

I've been in quite a slump on playing Marth as I seem to not get entire hang of his moves and techs.I think I need some tutoring in order to improve. Could anyone lend a hand?

 

[Locuan]

Ok, so after yesterday I think I can safely say that I have no idea what is going on with the game mechanics after the patch. Horizontal Vectoring now? Holding up sends you further up and horizontally? The system is weird as it is, especially on the logical side of things.

Lucina-thread is a frigging mess so I'll just ask it here:

Sorry about that D:

I've been in quite a slump on playing Marth as I seem to not get entire hang of his moves and techs.I think I need some tutoring in order to improve. Could anyone lend a hand?

The first thing you should do is learn how to have proper spacing on his moves. Landing those tippers are great! After you have that more or less mastered you can go in on specific techniques. However, Marth and Lucina do not rely on fancy techniques or anything I like to view them as characters that reward you heavily on the knowledge of basic mechanics of the game. Footsies, tech chasing, all that good stuff. Are there any specific moves that you are not understanding?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

The first thing you should do is learn how to have proper spacing on his moves. Landing those tippers are great! After you have that more or less mastered you can go in on specific techniques. However, Marth and Lucina do not rely on fancy techniques or anything I like to view them as characters that reward you heavily on the knowledge of basic mechanics of the game. Footsies, tech chasing, all that good stuff. Are there any specific moves that you are not understanding?

Well, the spacing is something I really, REALLY suck at ATM as Marth (Lucina though is less punishing due her blade style). I think it might be my transitioning from Project M to SSB4 (casual competitive), but I still can't do proper followups or land most of my aerial attacks. I seem easily anticipated which has me bit wonder what options to use when trying to approach or counter as Marth. I also seem to suck at edgeguarding despite being good at it in PM.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well for starters, the difference between Project M and Wii U/3DS means that you'll have to control Marth differently. Marth is more defensive in Wii U/3DS, meaning that instead of using Marth's attributes to go on the offense you need to instead using it fish for a mistake and act accordingly. A basic example is that the forward aerial in Project M is designed to rack up damage, while on Wii U/3DS it's designed to space yourself. The Wii U/3DS variation of Marth also puts more emphasis on the special attacks more so then past titles, so I would recommend learning the properties of them all.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Well for starters, the difference between Project M and Wii U/3DS means that you'll have to control Marth differently. Marth is more defensive in Wii U/3DS, meaning that instead of using Marth's attributes to go on the offense you need to instead using it fish for a mistake and act accordingly. A basic example is that the forward aerial in Project M is designed to rack up damage, while on Wii U/3DS it's designed to space yourself. The Wii U/3DS variation of Marth also puts more emphasis on the special attacks more so then past titles, so I would recommend learning the properties of them all.

Hmm, looks to be so. Does this suggest I should use Lucina more instead of Marth? At the end since she's more of a rush-down character than Marth.

 

[Locuan]

Hmm, looks to be so. Does this suggest I should use Lucina more instead of Marth? At the end since she's more of a rush-down character than Marth.

Why do you say that Lucina is a more of a rush-down character?

 

[Emblem Lord]

I also want to know why he thinks she is less punishable.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

@ Emblem Lord and @ Locuan

From my experience on Lucina, I can concentrate on racking damage and not mind trying to space in order to tipper properly and rack less damage or knock back if not (which also has me be more open if so)
She feels balanced. But I don't mean to compare Marth and Lucina here - I'm just talking from a viewpoint of play styles and what seems fitting for me (mostly aggressive).


Of course I do not know these things well so you can enlighten me regarding these kinds of subjects. Also it might just be that I suck but that's why I came in here anyway.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Their frame data is the same so w\e marth is, lucina is as well.

Neither are rushdown chars though they can be aggressive. Both of them need proper spacing. Lucina more so then marth ironically. She is less safe on block then he is.

 

[Locuan]

@ ~ Valkyrie ~
It is precisely as @ Emblem Lord has stated. The frame data for both are the same. So in essence, they should both be spacing and both will be punished if played as rush-down characters at a high level. Additionally, due to Marth's mechanics, he is safer on block as previously stated. Specifically you can read about it on this post point #4. If you want more information, I am pretty sure @ Shaya posted the frame data with the hit-stun lag modifiers on opponents shields but I cannot seem to find it.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

@ ~ Valkyrie ~
It is precisely as @ Emblem Lord has stated. The frame data for both are the same. So in essence, they should both be spacing and both will be punished if played as rush-down characters at a high level. Additionally, due to Marth's mechanics, he is safer on block as previously stated. Specifically you can read about it on this post point #4. If you want more information, I am pretty sure @ Shaya posted the frame data with the hit-stun lag modifiers on opponents shields but I cannot seem to find it.

Alright, got that down. I guess this makes Lucina inferior to Marth in the long run? Still, thanks for clearing that up. I guess it's back to to start with Marth, kinda.

Another question, I'm still trying to figure out effective ways to train, but I can't trust using CPUs (in any level) in training mode as I'm afraid they'll condition me to use wrong habits and mindsets during actual battles. Do you guys know recommended ways to train when not having sparring partners around?

 

[Zano]

just use lvl 3 cpus, don't play against cpus like you're trying to play against a player, use them for consistency

 

[Foodies]

Marth is so happy in his victory screens in the Wii U. I like :D

Really like the graphics in general.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I dont. Marth is not a very smiley person in his games. Hes overall quite serious. He smiles on ocassion but overall hes focused. He really only smiles when he thinks of his wife or after defeating medeus.

 

[Shaya]

He looks extremely pretty / smug from my perspective, it's a bit different, but it's kinda this "new" instance of "everyone look at me" perfection.

 

[Xinc]

He looks extremely pretty / smug from my perspective, it's a bit different, but it's kinda this "new" instance of "everyone look at me" perfection.

Having been amongst the top in the previous Smashes, it definitely makes sense Marth could let it go to his head. :o

 

[Nike.]

Incoming sad

So I just came from a 48 man tourney and played with the gamecube controller for the first time. I was one round away from getting dead last. Considering I would've for sure been top2 in melee or brawl with the same pool of players, this was quite a depressing day for me. The noob strats and low level play... I felt helpless. Marth's just so different and... underwhelming now. It's gonna be very difficult to break 9 years of marth habits (lag on aerials, dancing blade, no more short double fair).

I've had a huge fascination for Greninja since his trailer video and had planned to use him alongside Marth for fun but for the first time I've had thoughts of abandoning Marth altogether. I've shamed you guys

 

[Foodies]

I wouldn't say he's very smiley either. But I don't think it's out of character for him to smile after a battle is won, heh.

And it looks like characters are more expressive in general on the Wii U - Pit didn't smile in his victory poses on the 3DS either but he does on the Wii U. There are probably some more cases.

 

[Wraeith]

Having played most of Marth's games, I always found his personality to be very solemn, dignified, mature, and yet remaining humble. It makes sense given his character; that of a noble heir whose kingdom was betrayed and his father killed while still young. Very apt, considering his army was built upon ashes and comprised of only the loyal and defeated who still wish to offer their aid.

He looks extremely pretty / smug from my perspective, it's a bit different, but it's kinda this "new" instance of "everyone look at me" perfection.

You're probably joking about his taunt, but I've always interpreted it as him saying "Watch over me", "See how far I've come?", or "Your sacrifices will not be forgotten." The literal translation doesn't do the line much justice. I feel the context and significance is lost between languages as it comes off senselessly conceited in English. I find it to be far more poetic if you were to envision it as if he's speaking to his fallen comrades.

That or he's a vain, spoiled prince with a sword, both work.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

So I just finished about 10 hours of on-off play with a GC controller. Played as Marth most of the time.

All I can say at this point is that I've got a lot to get used to...

Oh and that tippered forward smash...wow <3 in HD too

 

[Zano]

Incoming sad

So I just came from a 48 man tourney and played with the gamecube controller for the first time. I was one round away from getting dead last. Considering I would've for sure been top2 in melee or brawl with the same pool of players, this was quite a depressing day for me. The noob strats and low level play... I felt helpless. Marth's just so different and... underwhelming now. It's gonna be very difficult to break 9 years of marth habits (lag on aerials, dancing blade, no more short double fair).

I've had a huge fascination for Greninja since his trailer video and had planned to use him alongside Marth for fun but for the first time I've had thoughts of abandoning Marth altogether. I've shamed you guys

heard kj got 7th. From what I've heard from both of you it seems like we all have the same problems with him. Basically have to learn him from scratch.

Think almost everyone has had thoughts of abandoning marth, it just a sign that you're actually a marth main

 

[Emblem Lord]

Best advice I can give is, ok you paid like over 60 bucks for this game right? Play who you want to play. In the end a product is there for YOUR enjoyment. If playing Marth means the product brings you unhappiness then you should not play him period. The worst thing a competitive player can do is play a character that brings them no joy.

Videogames in the end are about having FUN. No fun = no good.

 

[KillLock]

Won a tournament on Saturday, got work but here was the bracket.

Singles
http://challonge.com/141122EDMSmash4

Doubles
http://challonge.com/141122EDMSmash4Dubs

Vids should be up eventually as it was streamed, went Marth/Falcon. DildoKing is SUPAHB00mfan(Who forfeited after winners semi's to play 64 lol)

 

[Shaya]

Got third today, still doing marf/falco
Sad about Ness' small size and dash grab, and stupidly dumb circumstances that forced an almost over match to restart which I then lost and yada yada salt lost 3rd.

Think stuff like the former will be better on WiiU, and the latter is just ****ty but w/e.

Marth requires time to get used to his timings/different flow.
It definitely does still feel like I'm needing to relearn him, being like... masterful-ish with him in Brawl isn't really enough in this...
Probably because nair and fair aren't as good^^

 

[Emblem Lord]

My whole gameplan with marth has evolved. Hes very different. I will try to record matches sometime this week.

 

[Shaya]

I just need to learn to move again :D
I can't wait to power shield everythingggggg

 

[Emblem Lord]

Wait you arent on wii u yet? Lolz.

Dont sweat the nonsense bro.

 

[Shaya]

I may find myself state-side before it gets released here, or maybe not. haha

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

I can't afford a Wii U D:

 

[Zano]

the suffering of living in kangaroo land.

I'll just be here enjoying my smash wii u, with my gamecube adapter that didn't cost me over $100

http://www.amazon.com/Super-Smash-GameCube-Adapter-Wii-U/dp/B00L3LQ1FI

 

[warionumbah2]

That moment when almost everyone in the damn section is using Marth on the better platform..... Damn it!!!

 

[Locuan]

the suffering of living in kangaroo land.

I'll just be here enjoying my smash wii u, with my gamecube adapter that didn't cost me over $100

http://www.amazon.com/Super-Smash-GameCube-Adapter-Wii-U/dp/B00L3LQ1FI

I got it online from gamestop before they sold out. I had seen the amazon prices that day and they where at $60. Pretty sure Nintendo did not expect this demand for the adapter.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

I got it online from gamestop before they sold out. I had seen the amazon prices that day and they where at $60. Pretty sure Nintendo did not expect this demand for the adapter.

Is there any Smash Wii U bundle? If there is one does it come with GC controllers and a GC controller adapter? If there is one maybe I can get one for Christmas,but I doubt I can afford any new game consoles this year.

 

[Zano]

I'm pretty sure you're a bit late if you want a bundle since people couldn't even preorder it a month in advance cuz of the demand, but maybe you'll get lucky and people won't sell them for $500

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

I'm pretty sure you're a bit late if you want a bundle since people couldn't even preorder it a month in advance cuz of the demand, but maybe you'll get lucky and people won't sell them for $500

Well lets be honest, by next month stores are probably going to have a ton of GC controller adapters, since Nintendo and/or retailers will understand how high the demand is for them.