Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

i find it strange when a top level falcon isnt gayed by Tope at a national

 

[0Room]

I think it is because Falcon can control the match and pace of the match with his mobility
Doing so can make this match up play like Marth

DD until they whiff something, punish hard
Sheik's super comboable

sh uair->fh uair is relaly good

 

[BSeeD]

arrique nubs had a lot of my ideas in it

probably never gunna make a combo vid

Lol. U mad S2J ?

As little as my opinion is right there, I think a lot of people would like to see a combo video of yours.

 

[Deleted member]

if i make one it would have to not be poop

so likelihood if making one that i would like = ppretty low

 

[Veetaak]

It's okay. You don't need edgeguarding in combo videos.

 

[_Rocky_]

i know how you feel s2j

watching shroomed's combo vid almost made me quit making the nedech one

 

[tarheeljks]

@0room

falcon's "control" against sheik is kinda illusory imo, but my biggest disagreement centers around the focus on the ability for falcon/sheik to do nasty things to each other. it's not just about magnitude/the capacity to combo and deal damage; frequency/degree of difficulty and margin for error are significant factors. do you think sheik has to work as hard as falcon does to get kills/generate damage (in terms of creating openings and executing them)? the former is where sheik's primary advantage comes from imo, though i do think sheik also has a slight advantage in the latter area b/c sheik's tech chasing is so free in this mu

basically, i think focusing on combo ability and damage potential evaluates the mu based on the implicit condition that falcon can reliably put himself in a favorable position, but that is one of the hardest parts of the matchup

 

[JonnyW]

i find it strange when a top level falcon isnt gayed by Tope at a national

Topes tech-chase is scary.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

max sounds mad for no reason
obv troll

 

[Walt]

maybe I'm getting inverse-counter-meta trolled. he's all giggling while thinking "hee hee I'm gonna act all mad about something someone said about me on the internet!"

 

[Max?]

maybe I'm getting inverse-counter-meta trolled. he's all giggling while thinking "hee hee I'm gonna act all mad about something someone said about me on the internet!"

If you knew the truth your head would explode.

 

[0Room]

Max's signature reminds me of what you two are doing to each other

@0room

falcon's "control" against sheik is kinda illusory imo, but my biggest disagreement centers around the focus on the ability for falcon/sheik to do nasty things to each other. it's not just about magnitude/the capacity to combo and deal damage; frequency/degree of difficulty and margin for error are significant factors. do you think sheik has to work as hard as falcon does to get kills/generate damage (in terms of creating openings and executing them)? the former is where sheik's primary advantage comes from imo, though i do think sheik also has a slight advantage in the latter area b/c sheik's tech chasing is so free in this mu

basically, i think focusing on combo ability and damage potential evaluates the mu based on the implicit condition that falcon can reliably put himself in a favorable position, but that is one of the hardest parts of the matchup

You bring up some good points
And it's something that PP brought up too, where DI kind of messes up combos the same way that tech chases aren't necessarily guaranteed 100%

I think the best way to explain why it's still really difficult but I think that it's 50/50 is because I feel like you need a lot of experience and knowledge in the match up before you can really understand it.

However on to your actual points
I do think it's easier for sheik to capitalize on damage and get damage out of openings. This biggest problem I think is that this comes from stage positioning.

Sheik wants to be mid/full screen where she can react to Falcon's speed, but Falcon wants to be close [right about Dash attack range to right outside ftilt range] so that he can punish on reaction. However if Falcon ever misspaces/guesses wrong on what action sheik is going to do, that turns into a stock.
But once he gets in it's hard for Sheik to push him back out.

Does this make sense?

 

[linkoninja]

Anybody remember that short clip that HomeMadeWaffles posted of an up and coming Falcon who combo'd Darkrain? I forgot the name of the video, but what was the name of that Falcon? I'm DYING TO KNOW >.<

it was NOT Walt btw.

 

[crush]

Anybody remember that short clip that HomeMadeWaffles posted of an up and coming Falcon who combo'd Darkrain? I forgot the name of the video, but what was the name of that Falcon? I'm DYING TO KNOW >.<

it was NOT Walt btw.

Was it ORLY on ronecuddlers channel?

 

[linkoninja]

Was it ORLY on ronecuddlers channel?

YES! I remember now! Hahah love you dude!

 

[Deleted member]

ORLY is pretty legit hahah, love that guy

my thoughts on falcon vs shiek:

its sorta bad but manageable as of late BECAUSE shieks suck, most can't even tech chase properly when its 2x easier than tech chasing with falcon

also, bad shieks are fun to ****

 

[0Room]

So two things
[three things]

1) I did HORRIBLY in tournament today xD
Like wow. But oh well, we all have our off days.

2) I zero to death'd a sheik using falcon kick.

3) Playing sheik in tourney is really interesting. Any one hit turns into something like a stock. And like tarheel said, being in position is really difficult. Especially when your tech skill isn't necessarily amazing. Though I think it's still doable. Though again, like tarheel said, control over the match is also slippery. It's fun stuff and I'm really looking forward to playing better sheiks in tourney again.

 

[Divinokage]

I might have a Falcon ditto MM getting uploaded soon, tell me what you think when it's up. =P

 

[JPOBS]

i find it strange when a top level falcon isnt gayed by Tope at a national

IMO, I think most of the top level falcons are just better players than the top sheiks.

Except maybe KK, he would probably beat the falcons.

 

[Divinokage]

Falcon is awesome. -edit to remove vid.

 

[0Room]

Fine Kage
Ignore the entire thread devoted to posting videos and asking for critiques

 

[Divinokage]

Oh? I didn't even know there was one. lol.

 

[0Room]

Lmao do people even look at the other threads here
like for serious

 

[Divinokage]

Lmao do people even look at the other threads here
like for serious

No clue but honestly smashboards is badly made to look for information lol.

 

[crush]

Cage do you really admit that bizarroflame is better than you?

 

[0Room]

Can someone link me a really good match of BF
I've only seen like 3 matches of his and they weren't of him playing anyone close to his level

 

[Divinokage]

Cage do you really admit that bizarroflame is better than you?

No one is better than me. Just like no one is less than me.

 

[KirbyKaze]

stfu noob i **** you

 

[tarheeljks]

Can someone link me a really good match of BF
I've only seen like 3 matches of his and they weren't of him playing anyone close to his level

vs sfat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQkbsImPAXI

vs gunbound

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my1g1md75mA&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAl14z1YEsY&feature=relmfu

not familiar w/gunbound but i'm going to assume he is pretty good since he beat bizarro flame, granted that matchup is hard (didn't watch those two particular videos tbh, just knew about them). sfat is very good

 

[Divinokage]

Sfat beat me in a MM too, he's definitely very good. But ya you really can't throw out that many moves vs him, or else you get punished.

 

[Deleted member]

everyone sleeps on sfat

till he shats on you

==

best way to describe him is hes very smart, quick in both tech skill and reactions

no n00b killer works on him

 

[Palpi]

Sfat is probably my favorite fox he is great

 

[Divinokage]

I wonder who's everyone?

 

[tarheeljks]

people who don't know who he is obv

 

[0Room]

I'd never heard of him
Where does BF/Sfat come from?

 

[Wenbobular]

Are you not subbed to Waffles's channel or something <_<

 

[KirbyKaze]

s2j will fair > grab > death combo > happy dance > shino stall > repeat work on him?

or will i need to learn how to play sheik?

D:

 

[Divinokage]

people who don't know who he is obv

It doesn't matter, you should not underestimate your opponents in the first place. You should just try to beat whatever he does anyways. =P

 

[Walt]

I'd never heard of him
Where does BF/Sfat come from?

Norcal. SFAT is in grand finals with Shroomed like 90% of our tournaments. Usually gets 2nd, beat him with Falco in GF recently.

Also how could people not heard of him yet? He was the highest placing Fox at Genesis 2 not counting Mango. He placed higher than Lovage. Although he did have easier bracket matches than Lovage.

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

So SFAT scraped shroomed in a bunch of MM recently, true story.

Quite hilarious of some of the details of what happened, but I shouldn't post it.

SFAT also pulls off some VERY dirty 0 --> high % combos with fox vs sheik