TheManaLord
Smash Hero
Nope bthrow and fthrow are almost entirely useless...
You'd be better using dthrow or uair for guaranteed hits or kill.
You'd be better using dthrow or uair for guaranteed hits or kill.
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Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]
- Thread starter Scar
- Start date
DrewB008
Smash Lord
fthrow cant possibly combo into knee, there is too much lag after you throw them im pretty sure. uthrow dthrow are basically always the right decision, sometimes its reasonable to fthrow or bthrow someone with a really bad recovery off the ledge, but i wouldnt bother with that against floaties. also, that would work better with fthrow because they might try to DI the throw away to avoid a dropzone or something. that way you fthrow them and theyre kinda far away from the level, maybe you can cheap em out
metashinryu
Smash Ace
then say, i want to land a nair at low% i should do dthrow/uthrow instead of fthrow? which is better for going on a combo?
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
At low percents dthrow but it's character dependent, on floaties you want dthrow.
Here's better advice: never use fthrow.
Here's better advice: never use fthrow.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
hey thats not true what if you are right at the edge at like 10% against a space animal and you know they will get nervous and illusion into your knee and die 
nah j/k bthrow and fthrow suck except for like the obvious uses
wait except most of the time out of uthrow dthrow you have a guaranteed knee
nevermind
nah j/k bthrow and fthrow suck except for like the obvious uses
wait except most of the time out of uthrow dthrow you have a guaranteed knee
nevermind
Scar
#HarveyDent
yeah CF's throws are too good, it's a matter of getting the grab
if you uthrow a character and they can hit you before you can combo them, don't do it anymore and dthrow instead
vs dthrow, all characters have the following options based on their weight, %, etc
away DI, which leads to a tech (and tech-chasing opportunity) or to a combo, usually dthrow knee
no DI, which leads to a tech, nair/knee/uair combo, or regrab
in DI, which leads to a regrab or nair/knee combo
so yeah if you ever try to uthrow uair and it doesnt work b/c you get stuffed, you should be dthrowing instead. dthrow is always a safe bet aside from high %s where characters go too far away for a combo but high enough that they don't have to tech, then uthrow uair edgeguard is usually the best idea.
i have been thinking about fthrowing at the edge when i know they are going to DI away to avoid a throw>knee combo, we'll see how that works out.
if you uthrow a character and they can hit you before you can combo them, don't do it anymore and dthrow instead
vs dthrow, all characters have the following options based on their weight, %, etc
away DI, which leads to a tech (and tech-chasing opportunity) or to a combo, usually dthrow knee
no DI, which leads to a tech, nair/knee/uair combo, or regrab
in DI, which leads to a regrab or nair/knee combo
so yeah if you ever try to uthrow uair and it doesnt work b/c you get stuffed, you should be dthrowing instead. dthrow is always a safe bet aside from high %s where characters go too far away for a combo but high enough that they don't have to tech, then uthrow uair edgeguard is usually the best idea.
i have been thinking about fthrowing at the edge when i know they are going to DI away to avoid a throw>knee combo, we'll see how that works out.
Milos
Smash Lord
nair grab at low percent
uthrow at low percent, to uair
dthrow at higher percent, to uair or knee
uthrow at low percent, to uair
dthrow at higher percent, to uair or knee
Da Shuffla
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,810
I think I remember someone in this thread saying not to approach Marth. Does this mean that I just DD and such until I get an opening?
DD and bait and stuffz
Scar
#HarveyDent
yeah i said that, marth ***** all of your approaches, turns out that there are very few marths that are good against CF though which is why i think the matchup is called @ 60/40 falcon.
you need to be very conscious of spacing, realize that if you're in close you can't run from him, his dash attack covers all your options, **** him if he ever misses an attack on you and be conscious of his sword through platforms
you need to be very conscious of spacing, realize that if you're in close you can't run from him, his dash attack covers all your options, **** him if he ever misses an attack on you and be conscious of his sword through platforms
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
DD grab camp and you win. Stay on edge make him recover to stage easy knee punish.
It's a pretty easy matchup because most Marths aren't pro LOL
It's a pretty easy matchup because most Marths aren't pro LOL
Hmm....
>_>;
I think the matchup is even, the pro-ness of other Marths shouldn't be a factor. Matchups are evaluated based on the highest level of play for both characters, aren't they?
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
That parts obviously a joke!
Scar
#HarveyDent
yeah that's how we usually do it but i think the system is flawed, there are certainly stylistic differences between players and they translate into better/worse matchups, and also highest level play isn't always relevant
i think marth/falcon is exactly even and whoever is better with their character and at the matchup will win
i think marth/falcon is exactly even and whoever is better with their character and at the matchup will win
Faithkeeper
Smash Lord
IMO, yes and no.
Yes for the sake of tiers and other obvious reasons.
No because honestly most people who come seeking advice aren't at the highest level. By including things that may not apply at the highest level one helps tailor the help to the audience. And it is a very rare sight to see someone who is at the highest level asking for help on the smashboards. As far as matchup rating, I suppose it would be at the discretion of the poster, probably heavily weighing on the context of the post, whether it's in a guide or responding to someone asking for help, or some other scenario. I don't think there's any set rules or regulations, maybe not even expectations for this kind of thing at any rate.
(edit)
Please go into more detail with these in your guide, that knowledge could be extremely helpful. (To me and likely to others)
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
I do believe marth has the advantage in this matchup. But I agree with you on the style part. Combo happy marths will go even with falcon. But im dair happy and I gimp all day.
Falcon can combo marth and marth can combo falcon. but what marth can do to falcon cannot really be avoided with DI. once falcon is off the stage at all marth should handle his business. you can SDI an knee.
I just feel that the gimp factor and platforms give marth an edge over falcon.
metashinryu
Smash Ace
i always **** marths easily,i just bait a grab and they are dead,you can chainthrow her safely from 0-50 without em getting out of it and almost always will get nervous, do **** di and knee=kill
just stay away from her sword unless she fsmash u, i just say **** time when they do that XD
just stay away from her sword unless she fsmash u, i just say **** time when they do that XD
L1M3
Smash Cadet
I don't think you can chainthrow marth to 50%...
metashinryu
Smash Ace
why not? well anyways im sure u can chainthrow the balls outta him
Scar
#HarveyDent
metashinryu, you can almost never chaingrab marth dude. i don't even know what a person could do to get chaingrabbed with marth by captain falcon. if you have ever done this and recorded it i would loooooove to see it, but it is completely impossible
and yes if the marth is garbage uthrow at like any percent and it combos into knee but that's not what we're talking about
and yes if the marth is garbage uthrow at like any percent and it combos into knee but that's not what we're talking about
KosukeKGA
Smash Champion
Does Marth's F-Air beat my N-Air?
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
yes it has a disjointed hitbox like a sword, so only thing with a hitbox like that will trade or clang
metashinryu
Smash Ace
man i have done it, i wish i had a camera T_T
and u can use half nair as a setup for it, u grab him and dthrow, u just need to jc every grab and dash to it, c.falcon gets a weird range on his grab when u do it like that(almost as long as marths AND you can grab people behind u while moving ) and u can grab ppl almost when they touch ground XD
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
you're doing that because they're not DI'ing properly
sorry bro it's not real.
sorry bro it's not real.
Mokumo
Smash Ace
Now that i've improved my falcon punch and falcon kick game...
Two moves that I am trying to use more often: usmash and dtilt. Last tourney i went to I remember watching scar do a lot of dthrow -> usmash to cover two options (flubbed tech and tech in place), which is a pretty legit strategy especially because its easy to practice on a computer. upsmash techchase below a platform -> knee is legit too. dtilt -> grab/knee/anything can work too, isai kills ken with dtilt -> twice in that legendary match on dreamland. darkrain combos all day of course, but everyone is good now and they DI way on the dtilt.
any other strategies that work with these two moves?
Two moves that I am trying to use more often: usmash and dtilt. Last tourney i went to I remember watching scar do a lot of dthrow -> usmash to cover two options (flubbed tech and tech in place), which is a pretty legit strategy especially because its easy to practice on a computer. upsmash techchase below a platform -> knee is legit too. dtilt -> grab/knee/anything can work too, isai kills ken with dtilt -> twice in that legendary match on dreamland. darkrain combos all day of course, but everyone is good now and they DI way on the dtilt.
any other strategies that work with these two moves?
metashinryu
Smash Ace
uthrow to u smash works on fastfallers at low% and also the dtilt to fsmash is a good option
also manalord:i already tested the chainthrow on lv9 marth cpu,i could mantain it to 55% till he could break out of it by dairing me,i dunno if thats legit but later i will test it on a good marth player
i think lv9 have good di, try landing an full upsmash on em, they always di it away, and they can survive a knee at 100% O_O
also manalord:i already tested the chainthrow on lv9 marth cpu,i could mantain it to 55% till he could break out of it by dairing me,i dunno if thats legit but later i will test it on a good marth player
i think lv9 have good di, try landing an full upsmash on em, they always di it away, and they can survive a knee at 100% O_O
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
No nothing you do on computers can be done on people.
and usmash is ok but limited for techchase and platforms and maybe random oos if you think itll work and no you cant throw into it
dtilt is ok too good juggles if they dont di its straight up easy knee if they di away pending percent a knee or something else maybe grab but it's an easily di'ed move a good application is low %'s v spacies bc it drops them down
and usmash is ok but limited for techchase and platforms and maybe random oos if you think itll work and no you cant throw into it
dtilt is ok too good juggles if they dont di its straight up easy knee if they di away pending percent a knee or something else maybe grab but it's an easily di'ed move a good application is low %'s v spacies bc it drops them down
metashinryu
Smash Ace
i KNOW but i only fight good players once a week so i dont have very much time to experiment with...
Milos
Smash Lord
Noooooooob
metashinryu
Smash Ace
spammer, how u got to be smash director doing that?
Milos
Smash Lord
I hosted a tourney
_marth1_
Smash Lord
forward/down tilt = underrated
Milos
Smash Lord
Ftilting illusions and phantasms is too good.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
ftilt combo's, haven't you all seen the perfect falcon video?
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
l cancelling and stuff!
Just learn the basics on your own, the rest is application against people.
Just learn the basics on your own, the rest is application against people.
Scar
#HarveyDent
lol TML it really isn't. Goddammit this keeps coming up. I suppose I know what I have to do.
Everyone, prepare to get better at SSBM. I will show you the way.
Everyone, prepare to get better at SSBM. I will show you the way.
weren't you going to make a video of like How to?
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
:embarrass
:flame::suess::veryconfu
:nerd::bigthumbu:******::hunger::freak:
:smoke::newbie:
:devil::hipsmile:
scared:
:redx::blush:
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT
explain scar, explain
i don't really know tho bc i dont' play v people either except tournaments i got good by playing cpu but i dunno when peopel ask me how I just say when you play versus people you "get your mind right" then v cpu just do **** and learn how but you gotta realize.. that developing bad habits **** is bull**** just get your head in the right place to play
but what do you have to say about this? i'm actually interested!
EDIT: IMO step 1 is having a controller that works lol. I need a new one but have no money >_<