Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[Windrose]

Isn't falcon vs pikachu an even matchup?

I can't do that ledge grab to reverse knee edge guard against spacies that you guys were talking about way back. I keep getting hit by fire fox. I just use bair instead. Is this sufficient enough?

Hax is the only one of the top falcons that has figured out how to play the falcon sheik matchup correctly...even then he still doesn't **** sheiks. It goes even at best for Hax vs sheik.

 

[CorteX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufuqIslN8ko

I hate Falco!
Help me improve my Falcon as I really don't understand this matchup at all..
Ignore 9:03 btw lol.. I was moving my analog like crazy trying to get out of the grab which made me fastfall to my doom.
Excuse my noobyness, I'm only playing this game for about 6 months now.
I need all the advice I can get

Oh and btw, did I say I hate falco yet?

 

[Deleted member]

windrose, you aren't using ledge invincibility properly, you need to knee very quickly after an edge (re)grab

for the matchup, I feel that falcon wins slightly. If I played 300 matches with a decent Pika I don't think i'll ever lose to Pika except on FD, thing is nobody wants to use that horrid phaggy character so I'll never get practice (same for basically everyone)

as for hax, i disagree, provided hes playing good, i think he has an edge on every shiek, except m2k who says they go 50-50 when hax is warmed up

shieks beatable IMO. I lack good practice vs them due to no good socal shieks but at pound 5, the good shieks I played I know I have a shot at beating, I beat Tope 1 MM (then lost 1 and another one while stupidly drunk).

Once a falcon really learns the matchup, it gets a lot closer then people think. I think its fine and easier than falco, who you really need to outplay to win. Really rewarding when you win vs a decent falco and its still fun when u **** a n00b falco. probably my favorite matchup

Scar/Darkrain too are very good vs shieks as well, but Hax is the best.


==
@cortex
your biggest problem is whenever ur in a position to tech chase/ punish, you set yourself up so that you cover 0 options 90% of the time

practice i guess, the classic facepalm moment I see in melee vids is when people read/guess correctly and misspace bigtime and cover no option

when you hit/ grab falco, basically treat him the same as fox except falco has longer tech rolls

its a ****/get ***** matchup and you basically lack knowledge/execution in dealing the **** so when you do get those crucial spots you don't do much

falco is very ghey, it only gets harder as falco gets better unlike fox/shiek

u also pick some horrid punishment options vs falco's recovery, think about what you can do to hit them, watch vids if you don't feel like figuring it out yourself. One thing is don't punish falco's side-b by doing a quick double jump stomp after falco is already on stage

 

[KirbyKaze]

sheik isn't as good as she used to be

which makes me angry

i'm gonna have to cook some strats up in my smash lab

 

[Mogwai]

you should work on using double jump dair approaches with Sheik IMO. 2013 meta right there, thank me later.

 

[thumbswayup]

There's no worse feeling in this game than when you make the correct read and miss the punish. Makes me want to quit everytime I do that and I do it often

 

[Ndot]

There's no worse feeling in this game than when you make the correct read and miss the punish. Makes me want to quit everytime I do that and I do it often

I knowwwww.....I do the correct read then **** up some tech skill and miss the punish..**** my life lol

 

[KirbyKaze]

you should work on using double jump dair approaches with Sheik IMO. 2013 meta right there, thank me later.

I think it's got to do with her crouch to protect her from certain kinds of grab spacings (puff style) but dj dair sounds like hot trash so I have a new project.

 

[GooeyBanana]

I don't think I'm banning FoD any longer....Yoshi's instead. Gotta love when the side platforms are low enough to where you can teleport on them with usmash. Just usmashed Dart's Fox's shield the other night and he shield grabs...but misses since I was on the top platform. Stomp knee'd...next time it'll be that Falcon Punch since I know this works =P I also have done like silly combos like usmash and then CC it so they just fall on the ground and I run really quick of the platform and uair so the late part of it(the end of the backflip) taps them...could've followed up with DJ dair -> Falcon Punch had I known that uair was going to hit xP

 

[Mokumo]

I can't do that ledge grab to reverse knee edge guard against spacies that you guys were talking about way back. I keep getting hit by fire fox. I just use bair instead. Is this sufficient enough?

bair is still pretty good, and at the right % and DI it can sexily combo into a knee. but as s2j replied if you use your invincibility right you can get the reverse knee. just do a quick ledge hop -> regrab right as the spacie is charging their up B.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think I'm banning FoD any longer....Yoshi's instead. Gotta love when the side platforms are low enough to where you can teleport on them with usmash. Just usmashed Dart's Fox's shield the other night and he shield grabs...but misses since I was on the top platform. Stomp knee'd...next time it'll be that Falcon Punch since I know this works =P I also have done like silly combos like usmash and then CC it so they just fall on the ground and I run really quick of the platform and uair so the late part of it(the end of the backflip) taps them...could've followed up with DJ dair -> Falcon Punch had I known that uair was going to hit xP

my opinion:

fox/falco/shiek
Auto ban fountain unless you know they are bad on that stage/ won't pick it, otherwise ban yoshis

There's no reason to gimp yourself, although a lot of falcons are getting good at that stage. Stage is fine until there are partly raised platforms which causes a whole lot of problems.

It's true that lesser players often counter pick themselves especially if you know fountain well, but sadly it's supreme ghey vs players who don't suck

ghey fox strat that is basically unbeatable: camp underneath partly raise platform and literally never get punished/hit

vs marth i agree:
marth --> ban yoshis (fountains a good stage vs marth because you can live to 200 percent)

edit: might as well post my opinions on other chars:

pika/icies ban FD

peach: ur preference: Fountain, Dreamland, FD. I hate Dreamland the most. FD has chain grabs but its also the easiest to camp peach with. Fountain is freaking gay don't let peach d-smash on top of a slightly raised platform

Ganon: Yoshis although its fine imo. Yoshis i guess is bad if you are one of those dash dance campers. Great if you n-air 50,000 times correctly

if you want guaranteed platform shenanigans then ban FD, but FD is a great choice still

puff: ban Dreamland

 

[Beat!]

There's no worse feeling in this game than when you make the correct read and miss the punish. Makes me want to quit everytime I do that and I do it often

Thissssssssssssssssssss

 

[Windrose]

Don't ban brinstar?

 

[Shroomed]

brinstar sucks no one goes there

 

[Mizar]

Guys.
Machdash.
Is he a boss or what?
This playstyle is by far the most beautiful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax_ypF6-xpk

second match on Green Greens is hilarious.

 

[Divinokage]

Guys.
Machdash.
Is he a boss or what?
This playstyle is by far the most beautiful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax_ypF6-xpk

second match on Green Greens is hilarious.

LOL, doing whatever comes to mind is the best, it's so creative. =P

 

[thumbswayup]

Vodoo thinks I'm an idiot because I ban Yoshi's over Fountain against Marth LOL

I'd say don't ban Dreamland against Puff. They want that stage but I think Falcon has a great chance of winning there. There's plenty of space to run around and if you get a hit you can hit them several times after easily without going anywhere near the ledge. Battlefield is a far worse stage for Falcon against puff imo. The ledges allow her for ultimately homo gimps, and I just feel she controls it better.

 

[$mike]

i always ban yoshi's over fountain vs marth too. the platforms on yoshi's = auto combos and tippers. plus you die way earlier from tippers. it's definitely still winnable for falcon there but marths love that stage and gay **** happens often.

for puff i don't mind dl very much either. knees generally still kill at decent percents, and you can literally run around dl all day. i'd rather ban brinstar

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think Fountain is horrible for Falcon vs Puff but I don't play Falcon

What's horrible for Falcon vs Puff?

 

[Divinokage]

I'd say more like bigger stages, even though Falcon has more room, Jiggs dies slower so it gives her a lot more opportunities to gay Falcon... but that's just my preference, I like to fight close. Whatever is more comfortable to you right?

 

[Spekkio Master of War]

ive been banning yoshis for marth and fox. I dont know, on yoshis fox is all up in my grill and he can shine me from virtually anywhere on the stage and itll be an auto-stock (even more of an auto-stock than usual) on FoD I just stay the **** away from fox when hes under those plats, camp the top plat or the ledge if i have to.

 

[Wenbobular]

Objectively I think Falcon is way better on big stages vs anyone
It's not like you can hardcore camp him because he'll chase you down and small stages impede the running aroundness because there's less space to run around

Maybe that's painfully obvious but whatever haha
Knee doesn't give a *** about big stages because it'll kill you anyways

 

[Hax]

howcome the title of scar's thread is always the latest technique i **** him with

 

[Roneblaster]

hax is too ****ing good.

dont forget just because its been a month since pound.

 

[Quic]

howcome the title of scar's thread is always the latest technique i **** him with

To be fair, everybody got ***** by the Star Wars prequels.

 

[Wenbobular]

Holy cow already?
Haha ****** Scar with Star Wars prequels

*Edit*
Shedinja'd

 

[jetfour]

It's ok, cause in reality you'll probably just be watching them SD.


I remember watching Taj IRL for the first time at pound 2. When he would grab people with mewtwo he'd always just turn and look at them as he was inputting his grab hits. hilarious intimidation.

Taj IRL mindgames are so hilarious

me and hax think falcon beats pika

my style at least is pretty good vs pika even though i have no clue about the matchup

Your nair spam style is your (you personally, Johnnie) strength versus Pika but your weakness versus Peach methinks.


On the FoD note, I think stomps are soooo good there. Especially edgecancelled.
Worthless tip: Roll to the edge of the level, then dash full hop stomp for an easy edgecancel to taunt.

 

[Windrose]

Guys.
Machdash.
Is he a boss or what?
This playstyle is by far the most beautiful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax_ypF6-xpk

second match on Green Greens is hilarious.

Green Greens is stupid!! so many stage deaths.

Whatever happened to the japanese scene coming to north america and vice versa? It's only ever Europe and North America now. It'd be cool to see more international diversity.

What do you guys do against very campy players? =(
-they never approach
-just keeps on wave dashing back
-camp platforms and ledges...

 

[Ndot]

Green Greens is stupid!! so many stage deaths.

Whatever happened to the japanese scene coming to north america and vice versa? It's only ever Europe and North America now. It'd be cool to see more international diversity.

What do you guys do against very campy players? =(
-they never approach
-just keeps on wave dashing back
-camp platforms and ledges...

Nah Green Greens is awesome as you saw in that video lol.

The Japan Melee scene died for awhile when Brawl came out. They just started to come back recently maybe a year or two ago.

Against campers, just DD camp them back and look for openings. If they have projectiles like Falco, just cry.

 

[Mizar]

Green Greens is stupid!! so many stage deaths.

Whatever happened to the japanese scene coming to north america and vice versa? It's only ever Europe and North America now. It'd be cool to see more international diversity.

What do you guys do against very campy players? =(
-they never approach
-just keeps on wave dashing back
-camp platforms and ledges...

For some reason I think those kind of matches are alot more enjoyable. Especially when you play (seemingly) just for fun and happen to ****.

Anyway vs campy falcos. For example on DL or BF. I've seen Jeapie do diagonal nairs from the side platform to the ground (landing somewhere under the side platform on the other side).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86KXVtP4Cfk&t=1m59s

I dunno it just looks like a good option

 

[Walt]

Green Greens is stupid!! so many stage deaths.

Whatever happened to the japanese scene coming to north america and vice versa? It's only ever Europe and North America now. It'd be cool to see more international diversity.

What do you guys do against very campy players? =(
-they never approach
-just keeps on wave dashing back
-camp platforms and ledges...

Camping platforms doesn't work against Falcon, no one wants to put Falcon under just to get hit by uair a couple times in a row then get knee'd.

Against Marth at the edge I either trying to bait a grab with close DD spacing, as soon as you see him move towards you DD out and back in for a counter grab. DDing out(you can also wavedash back instead of dashing back) and back in works on fair/nair/fsmash/grab approaches. If they go for dtilt or wave dtilt you want to be close enough to crouch cancel grab or shffl a stomp over it. Wave fsmash is slow enough you can shield it and WD OoS on reaction and do whatever. Dash Attack will chase both dash away and wavedash back but it's not safe on shield so just block it. If you can't get bait something out of them try overshooting a knee through/pass them, don't fast fall it. They likely won't be %100 touching the edge so you have somewhere to land. Knee will go through utilt and fair and whatever else and as long as you don't get hit before knee comes out you will trade and Marth can't trade with knee repeatedly, he will lose that in the long run. Knee also can't be crouch canceled.

Verse Sheik you want to keep you back to her, bair will **** her up and crush ftilt, beware or her CC grabbing it at low percents though. Needles are gay, you have to deal with them, if she gets a full charge just run around and shield them all at a distance so she wastes them for no reason. If she's up+b edge stalling jut get near her throw out a long dtilt, it probably won't hit her but she will either get off the edge or hit you will you're already CCing her weak stuffed animal hits. And again long *** overshot sailing knees(and stomps on sheik) will counter wavedash back and DD spacing right in her dash attack or boost grab range you can stomp in place on those. If she ever jumps at bad spot just uair or nair her a million times. She shouldn't jump when he isn't comboing you or moving to a platform in this MU.

When fighting Falco if you can get him to shoot a high laser side-b under it, if he shoots a low laser then aerial over it try to stay near him, if you're out of jump foward nair/dair range and he's at the edge falco is put in a bad spot, usually they will full jump over, laser, or roll in. At that range you can JC grab the short hop on the laser, uair or wait for a good option on full jump and obviously punish the roll. But falco is gay and takes a long time to learn.

Fox is kinda like a falcon ditto in that everytime one of you whiffs something you will take a ton of damage and a combo, only fox has better everything and lasers. But if fox ever lasers at the edge he should get punched in the face for it.

Pretty much what you need to do against camping is bait something out and grab with DDing at an uncomfortable range for them or fly through their face with a knee and just take the trade as often as possible till they go on the offensive.

 

[linkoninja]

Guys.
Machdash.
Is he a boss or what?
This playstyle is by far the most beautiful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax_ypF6-xpk

second match on Green Greens is hilarious.

lol who is this guy?
He reminds me of Scar
killing himself, and throwing things out there but still winning

that was most entertaining
he missed literally all of his d-throw Knees
but he kept on trying like a champ

 

[ETWIST51294]

You don't know who the great Mach dash is?

He normally doesn't play like that, he was ****in up a lot.

He's a Japanese Falcon player that just combos and taunts like 6 times a match. His taunts are the best taunts of any falcon.

 

[Wenbobular]

Machdash!
How can you have not heard of Machdash

 

[Walt]

Seriously! Machdash is the **** man. Easily my favorite japanese player, his combo videos are mad legit too.

 

[Aussierob123]

Lol he kept on tryin like a champ cuz machdash IS a champ...

 

[Mokumo]

nobody taunts like mach dash

 

[Pakman]

SCAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR Move back to PA.

 

[Scar]

HOW DID YOU DO THAT

I wish I could I miss 'DEM BROS

 

[Mogwai]

Just do it. The new forums ****. It's like a chatroom.