Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[DrewB008]

DI away dont tech, or go off the edge and take your chances. shield his fairs, shieldgrab if he doesnt space, wd backwards out of shield then run in grab if he spaces them, cc a lot, dthrow til 30% then uthrow, scar can finish it off

dark crono you can easily do an uair in that situation if they dont DI away, which is the situation we're talking about

 

[Scar]

you can stomp fsmash when they go directly above you, so im inclined to disagree

True, you're right.

wtf do i do vs a good marth? we never played those falcon dittos =(

lolmaster's marth is pretty nasty nowadays. Listen to bigD, if tech chasing is your problem vs a character who really can't **** you for missing techs (Marth, NOT Falcon) then just stop teching.

I have a really big vs Marth post somewhere in this thread if you wanna go look for it, edit, found it for you, it's right here, click the arrow next to my name

Marth can be really gay, but it is a winning matchup at the highest levels of play.

... but the main thing is getting a 1st hit and ****** him to death for it. If lolmaster was shutting down your approaches yeah think about ccing and grabbing, abuse the fact that you're faster than him but watch out for his dash attack (which by the way is one of the gayest moves marth has).

If you grab him he should die, and you really should just work on combos and followups as best you can until you feel confident that you can kill a Marth from a grab at like 40% or so.

Grab tips
less than 30% dthrow, at lower %s if they DI in you can nair or knee, no DI = regrab, away di = tech chase
at 30% vs away di uthrow uair regrab, vs in DI uair uair uair uair uair uair uair combo
70ish % uthrow knee autocombos into death

 

[Rubyiris]

lolmaster's marth is pretty nasty nowadays. Listen to bigD, if tech chasing is your problem vs a character who really can't **** you for missing techs (Marth, NOT Falcon) then just stop teching.

I have a really big vs Marth post somewhere in this thread if you wanna go look for it, edit, found it for you, it's right here, click the arrow next to my name

... but the main thing is getting a 1st hit and ****** him to death for it. If lolmaster was shutting down your approaches yeah think about ccing and grabbing, abuse the fact that you're faster than him but watch out for his dash attack (which by the way is one of the gayest moves marth has).

If you grab him he should die, and you really should just work on combos and followups as best you can until you feel confident that you can kill a Marth from a grab at like 40% or so.

Grab tips
less than 30% dthrow, at lower %s if they DI in you can nair or knee, no DI = regrab, away di = tech chase
at 30% vs away di uthrow uair regrab, vs in DI uair uair uair uair uair uair uair combo
70ish % uthrow knee autocombos into death

thank you <3

WHY DIDN'T WE PLAY FALCON DITTOS!!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!!!!

 

[JonaDiaper]

he said eggm was in 94%, you cant go for an Uair after an Ugrab in 94%

oh snap lol i just saw right on top.. but yea fsmash son, it does hit from behind alittle, its hitbox is weird. and lol at the guy that was like not jonadiaper that made my hour.

 

[Rehu]

Thanx for the help earlier jona, nairing past em works great. I still have some questions left tho. Maybe u guys can help me out.

1. Which way should i DI to get Falcon out of combo's?
Everybody knows you should DI away, but do u have to input another direction like away + up or away + down? Do I want to DI off the stage as well? For example, when Sheik's Ftilt hits you on the ledge at high %. DI towards means Fair, and DI'ing away means edgeguard :/ Also, I don't use smash DI consistently tbh, so I'll have to implement that in my game. Any directions for smash DI are nice too ^^

2. How do I make my Falcon more defensive?
I tend to be kind of aggressive vs Falco and Sheik. Falco's laser camping is really annoying, and I don't want Sheik to charge needles for free. This usually results in me approaching and getting punished. Might also be a result of my friends approaching rarely, knowing Falcon can't hit them from afar. I'm more defensive vs others btw. Any tips are appreciated.

3. Which stages do I want to ban vs...?
Which stages do I want to ban vs a player who plays both Fox and Falco? FD vs Falco is pretty suicidal, but I dont want FoD either. FD vs Fox can be nice for tech chasing. Sheik and Marth can **** Falcon on both YS and FoD.

4. At which %s will dropzone work?
When I get a grab at the ledge, from which %s should I go for dropzone? It seems they (Fox & Falco) can jump b4 the knee comes out at like, 25%. Does it matter which way they DI btw?

That's all for now, thanks in advance.

 

[DrewB008]

my rule is always ban fod, some people disagree, but ive heard "i shouldve banned fod" come out of too many falcons

falco be offensive with nairs and ****, but sheiks needles arent that big a deal when youre being defensive

dropzone isnt guaranteed until higher %, and they can always get out if they DI away. just some things to keep in mind

 

[Scar]

1. Which way should i DI to get Falcon out of combo's?

falcon is very easily combo'd and has bad defensive options. honestly learn to play falcon like it's N64, just don't get hit and when you do expect to die for it.

DI is character and situation specific, if you know something can kill you DI out of a situation where you will die. if you are in a situation where a hit can kill you, use SURVIVAL DI. You get a feel for it as time goes on but yeah if sheik ftilts you at high % you're dead.

2. How do I make my Falcon more defensive?

dashdance more and jump around your opponent and don't attack, space yourself outside of their attack range and make it seem like you're going to do something stupid, but just do nothing. observing and waiting are great defensive tactics, but not always useful, especially if your spacing isn't great.

the best thing you can do IMO is solidify your in-shield game. Learn all the shieldstuns of moves that frequently get shielded (spacie aerials and shines, sheik tilts, marth's fsmash), learn the timing to immediately jump after stun, and know your OOS options.

jump (which implies wavedash, aerials, jc usmash)
shieldgrab
roll
dodge
upB
drop shield

wd OOS is extremely important for spacing, and aerials OOS to punish blocked attacks can be devastating.

3. Which stages do I want to ban vs...?

IMO vs Fox/falco/Sheik just ban FoD. The only character I don't want to ban fountain against anymore is Marth, I'd rather ban YS. Friggin' Scar's Story. Also if you know someone is going to cp like pokefloats and you're more comfortable on FoD just risk getting the random there and ban floats.

4. At which %s will dropzone work?

dropzone is flashy, not terribly useful. only attempt it if you know it's going to hit, a much safer thing to do is run off, fastfall, and dj back and nair. it will gimp their double jump if they try to use it, so most characters are forced to use their upB, and if it's predictable you can edgeguard.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

scar

will you one day learn to love me?

:D

 

[Scar]

In all probability, yes.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

yay :D

ok real question

whens the next SPOC?

 

[Mogwai]

yay :D

ok real question

whens the next SPOC?

real answer:

Not soon enough.

 

[demodemo]

i am having trouble vs doc

i dont know what move to do after i grab him

do i uthrow or dthrow? i think dthrow seems to work but he goes too far forward for anything but nair sometimes

and its so hard to combo him, at like 50% he already goes flying from my uairs gaah

 

[DrewB008]

my vote is uthrow uair but im in the minority on that one

 

[TheHiveMind]

Well i got a problem with my falcon. what happens is i grab a guy, and after throwing him my instinct is to jump after him and try to fair or dair him, but 90% of the time theyre invincible when it try and hit them. what other options do i have after i throw a guy, b/c airials dont seem to work at low %.

 

[DrewB008]

tech chase, aka attack them when theyre not invincible anymore but when they still cant do anything

it takes a lot of practice

 

[Scar]

i am having trouble vs doc

i dont know what move to do after i grab him

do i uthrow or dthrow? i think dthrow seems to work but he goes too far forward for anything but nair sometimes

and its so hard to combo him, at like 50% he already goes flying from my uairs gaah

I find that doc gets combod from dthrow into nair perfectly at 0%, just combo nair into nair until he stops DIing down. Otherwise at higher %s my combo starter is spamming nairs in his face, or killing 1 pill with 1st hit and hitting him with the 2nd.

If he ever DI's into dthrow knee.

Well i got a problem with my falcon. what happens is i grab a guy, and after throwing him my instinct is to jump after him and try to fair or dair him, but 90% of the time theyre invincible when it try and hit them. what other options do i have after i throw a guy, b/c airials dont seem to work at low %.

You can try to run at them first and just slow down your timing. For example uthrow a fox, dash forward while he's still in the air, and THEN like right before he lands guess where he is going to tech and then jump towards that spot.

That's actually the best way to tech chase IMO, follow the DI for a moment and then jump.

note: dthrow vs fox/falco/falcon and away DI and away tech, running immediately and shffling a knee hits perfectly at almost every %

 

[DrewB008]

aw now i feel like im stealing your thunder

 

[Reaver197]

Scar, how do I channel the spirit of darkrain?

 

[Scar]

aw now i feel like im stealing your thunder

I am the most electrifying man in Melee today. My thunder cannot be stolen, and even if it were my ego would regenerate it almost immediately. Plus, when I ignore the thread you hold **** down. I appreciate it and your answers are often better than mine lolz.

Scar, how do I channel the spirit of darkrain?

Honestly the first thing you have to do is believe that you are Darkrain. Therefore your fingers move way faster than they did before, and also you do in fact have the ability to read minds.

Always pick Black CF and don't put a tag. Think about how cool your name is and never smile during a match, but always express extreme relief whenever you win a close match/set. Dair a lot, especially offstage when it's completely brilliant.

If you do it completely right you will 0-death everyone every time you hit them and never think it's anything special because you do it all the time vs everyone.

I did this the week before event 52, but after actually playing Darkrain I think channeling him has become much more effective. Also it's far easier to channel lesser Falcon players such as myself, Hax$, G-Reg, and even SS, though he's doubtlessly the hardest 2nd to Darkrain.

 

[DrewB008]

i remember when darkrain and jiano did g reg vs ss dittos

one spammed knees and the other spammed moonwalks, it was great

but anyway, if you love offstage dairs, coming vids from smym will blow your mind

edit: why doesnt my sig show up i really like it

 

[Reaver197]

The best advice I have ever received!

Think about how cool your name is and never smile during a match

lol.

 

[Scar]

i remember when darkrain and jiano did g reg vs ss dittos

one spammed knees and the other spammed moonwalks, it was great

LMAO that's hysterical. btw I'm going to start spamming knees like g-reg used to, that **** really does work more often than you would think.

 

[DrewB008]

wavedash with the stick

i think someone told me darkrain did that once

 

[NES n00b]

aw now i feel like im stealing your thunder

How can one steal a sound? I hate turns of the phrase variety.

 

[Kouryuu]

Nevermind.

 

[DrewB008]

why would you just bring that back up like weeks after the fact haha

i mean, content of the argument aside, bringing up something everybody else brought up a week ago when everybody else is done talking about it is just foolish

 

[Scar]

Did he bring up hugs again? Man this kid. Well let's talk about Falcon v Samus anyways, her edgeguard is really **** vs Falcon, like just running off and nairing. Also utilt does a lot of damage to CF's recovery.

Missiles I guess are pretty easily avoided, but I think that being above and to either side of Samus is a terrible position to be in, her bair and nair will basically **** all your ****.

Getting under her is pricelss b/c uairs combo endlessly.. and when both characters are on the ground you can **** her missile lag so it's a bad idea for her to shoot at you IMO, and she basically has no approach but to jump and hope you jump into her nair, which you can wait for and then uair **** her.

 

[Mogwai]

what about samus wavedashing around in shield and then ftilting you? I find that **** mad annoying with Falco .

 

[I.B]

CC and ftilt her back

All dai

 

[Scar]

Yeah true it really is good stuff... though I think you can nair out of shield and catch Samus's ftilt and combo from there? Not when HugS did it though, he would ftilt and then jab cancel.. or vice versa and space it far enough that you couldn't punish.

I would just roll away, that's like my standard response. Or WD OOS now.

 

[JonaDiaper]

did you guys know you can jab her missiles? lol i think its cool

 

[soap]

big D how do i beat falcon with fox?

Ajj's falcon was ****** my fox for like hours yesterday. I tried to nair pressure him but his nair went through mine almost everytime, then he'd grab me and tech-chase until i died. I ended up running around usmashing. it worked, but when i missed or hit a shield i got *****

how do u space fox nairs to beat falcon? and whats some good get out of tech chase tricks?

i know this is fox advice, but reverse engineered from a falcons perspective would be amazing.

 

[Scar]

i'm not going to answer this because i wasn't addressed but i think i am the best suited CF player to answer this question in the world. but i probably wouldn't anyways because fox is gay and i will not reveal the cactus secrets to the world, lest i get ***** by more spacies.

 

[DrewB008]

soap i know youre good enough to understand mixing up techs, just do that

i remember ajj is really good at regrabbing if you go to the side, so he guesses in place a lot to make up for the fact that hes not that good at regrabbing when you tech in place

nair right instead of wrong, i dunno, coincidentally juke was telling me when he played fox vs ajj's falcon a while back ajj's nairs were outprioritizing his more than he thought they normally should, and juke nairs pretty well in that matchup

i dunno i think i beat ajj in this matchup in the hotel before smym, i just drilled a lot like i always do with fox

scar if you nair someones shield and dont space it, can you jab/roll before getting shieldgrabbed? cause i cant and im not sure if its me or the game

 

[soap]

hey u changed the title not me

And Big D's advice is more relevant to me cuz i can watch him play in person.

I watch cactuar jv 4 stock darkrain and i dont get what is happening. He is just doing moves it looks like. This doesnt work for me.

I think i have some semi predictable mixup patterns, and we play all the time and he knows them all. I'll just randomize it or something

 

[Scar]

The only person I've seen do this consistently is Cactuar's Falcon. The 2nd hit of his nair SOMETIMES comes out really late and he jabs/rolls before the shieldgrab, but I think it has mostly been mistimings and that it's impossible with a perfectly timed shieldgrab.

 

[DrewB008]

wow thats a relief

 

[soap]

in other words dont depend on it

 

[DtJ Jungle]

i loev soaps avatar...avatars.

 

[TheHiveMind]

ive tryed the stuff you mentioned sometimes, aka tech chase, but its accualy unpredictable when the people i play are going to tech or not lol. so it ends up being i grab them, d throw usually, then i either:

1. go after them too early and try at hit them while theyre invincible, they do a get up attack and hit me
2. go in the wrong direction after they do tech
3. they dont tech, and i thought they were going to, so im a mile away after trying to predict a tech, and i eat needles and lazers
4. hit them with an airial, but they are low % so they land and i eat needles and lazers
5. manage to pull a combo off and do some nice dmg

all but number 5 lead to me grabbing again, after getting pilled and fireballed, or trying to start combo with dair or nair.
idk the pros make it look so easy but its hard for me. and the ppl i play with spam projectiles like no tommorow, like, watch the youtube video of zhu's falco playing silentspectres falcon. that describes it perfectly.