Scar on the Melee vs Brawl debate: What does competitive really mean?

[Cloak and Dagger]

and quit typing Smooth Criminal after all of your posts, thats what sigs are for.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

and quit typing Smooth Criminal after all of your posts, thats what sigs are for.

How about I not and we'll say I did, mmkay?

Besides, that's my ****ing trademark. If it weren't for the fact that I typed my sn after everything I post on here, nobody would know me. So take your "third eye" and put it in a meat grinder.

>____>

I kid, I kid. Well, at least about the "third eye" and the meat grinder.

Smooth Criminal

 

[LOL_Master]

casual players can be good too, again, it's the deal with attitude toward the game, playing this game with good people and not johning in your head or get upset that you are sucking have a good chance really excelling in melee, and there's nothing wrong with typing your name after your posts, it shows that he is really smooth, and is definitely a criminal

um...

lol master

 

[LavisFiend]

Didn't call him a moron, Lavis. I just made the assumption that he was a casual player; that's all. I don't see why there should be a negative connotation here.

Casual players really don't have a place in threads like these---no doubt even YOU can attest to that. It's not to say casual players can't post their opinion or anything like that, but they should at least have the decency to back it up with a little more than "hear-say" which is what I feel Chu is doing.

Then again, I AM assuming that he's casual. Perhaps he is looking to be more competitive. Who knows? Only he knows, and I hope that he rectifies what I'm saying by telling me otherwise.

>___> So please. Don't jump my **** for thinking I insult people. You should know me better than that.

Smooth Criminal

Thing is though, that he has proven himself to be dumb (or at least, dense) which is why referring to him as a casual player seems to me like dressing up the fact that he is a moron by calling him a term for a general audience which is wrongly stereotyped here to begin with.

I am a casual player, but it is by choice. I just don't have the time nor money to do what is necessary to be competitive anymore. I was very involved with getting better at Melee, and just when I started to get the hang of things Brawl comes along and erases that. I reckon I could stay with Melee, but the thing is in order for me to do that I have to continue my training and I just don't have the time nor patience to do that. Maybe once I get all this crap done involving Pre-Dent I will, but that is heavily relient on how the Melee scene is holding up.

If the Melee scene comes back and gathers up even more momentum then before, the leap is obvious; if not, I will just tinker around with Brawl and hope to god a local tournament comes up so I can win me a free TV.

The thing is, Casual players like me can't dedicate the time we would like to honing our skills, and we barely have any time for ourselves. Brawl is a great game to play for that because there is just nothing to worry about; once you get good with a character it is 10-15 minutes play time and you got all the training done for the day. My melee training sessions used to be hours due to all the research I did with my combos.

Everytime I see casual player associated with a dense person it triggers off a wailing alarm in my head that won't silence because it is unfair to justify a moron in a classification that is purely a group of people who don't have the time to dedicate like they would want to.

No harm done Smooth, just how I see things.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I totally understand you, Lavis. I've been forced into a casual player-esque position myself, albeit through different circumstances. I don't have a Wii (had to sell it to pay bills) or a GC (thirty bucks is too much for me, apparently >___<); I'm heavily reliant on heading over to my friend's house and playing Melee/Brawl (mostly Melee), a trip that I make maybe two or three times a week. All of the good players in my area (i.e. those that have viable tourney experience like SleepyK, PB&J, XiF, and GA Peach. My experience is relatively limited) are far enough away from me to the point where gas prices become an issue (whereas the friend I usually Smash with lives five minutes away). I'm floating around in a boat that has a big hole in it and the only thing I was sent up **** creek with was a teeny-tiny bucket to help with the leak.

...all johns, I know, but I'm working on getting more green so I can do more in this community. But anyway, sorry for the misunderstanding Lavis. No harm done?

And thanks for the assist, LOL Master. >___> I'm glad somebody gets the pretext behind why I put my name after all of my posts.

Smooth Criminal

 

[LOL_Master]

people just need to lighten up and mass lols from time to time, "why so serious?"

...don't mention it : )

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Smooth.....your >__> Faces are getting bigger again.





>__________________________________________________>

 

[Reaver197]

Urgh, the whole "casual"/"hardcore" terminology. They're so arbitrary and vague; their meaning shifts from context to context and from user to user.

But, whatever, Chu is just ignorant and naive. Something that can be improved. A person is only dumb when they refuse to accept knowledge to fill in their ignorance.

Like creationists, lawl pwnzed.

In the words of Raocow.

"But, like, WHATEVER"

 

[KosukeKGA]

Lol. I'd say that Chu is just too lazy to play.

I'm pretty sure there are Melee players in every state in the US.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Urgh, the whole "casual"/"hardcore" terminology. They're so arbitrary and vague; their meaning shifts from context to context and from user to user.

It's frustrating, but what can you do?

>_______>

Smooth Criminal

 

[Gabz]

i suck at melee well at least sucked XD cause i didnt know how to use wavedash i dindt knew someone who couldteach me how to still i went ot the tournaments where everybody knew how to( yeah yuo had to pay so you could say i like wasting money lol) still i consider myself better in brawl. What i want to say with this is i may be better at brawl but i still say melee is much competitive than brawl s it needs some more ability to win. This is the discussion i´ve seen in all the forums and i think yeah melee is more competitive so yuo need to be better there to win than in brawl but i also say brawl also is even a little competitive and fun and it need practice to get good at it too so the melee champs should also give an equal value to the brawl and play it beacuse they do for fun even if they want to play much more than melee they need alos to recognize SSBB is also a game to be considered in mind....... besides this there`s another thing call mind games so it put you to think a little in SSBB.



swordsmanship otaku, out.

 

[SunDragon]

I'm probably going to get seriously flamed for this, but here it goes. After reading all the posts Scar had put up on the original post, I don't get what people are arguing about. It's obvious that Melee is more competitive than Brawl, but that doesn't mean pople can't still have fun with Brawl. The point of these games is to have fun, so just because Melee is more competitive than Brawl, that doesn't mean that you can't still have fun playing brawl.

Now I know people are going to jump to the conclusion that I'm just some casual player backing up Brawl because I wasn't good at Melee, but that's not true at all. I enjoy Melee more than Brawl, I just think people should enjoy both games.

That's my opinion on this whole thing, so flame me if you wish.

 

[KosukeKGA]

I'm probably going to get seriously flamed for this, but here it goes. After reading all the posts Scar had put up on the original post, I don't get what people are arguing about. It's obvious that Melee is more competitive than Brawl, but that doesn't mean pople can't still have fun with Brawl. The point of these games is to have fun, so just because Melee is more competitive than Brawl, that doesn't mean that you can't still have fun playing brawl.

Now I know people are going to jump to the conclusion that I'm just some casual player backing up Brawl because I wasn't good at Melee, but that's not true at all. I enjoy Melee more than Brawl, I just think people should enjoy both games.

That's my opinion on this whole thing, so flame me if you wish.

This is actually an intelligent post.

Admittedly, I only play Brawl to listen to the My Music section and only play it if some new exploit comes around. See? That's how I have fun with Brawl.

With Melee? I play the actual game with my friends. It all works out. Melee is just better.

 

[Reaver197]

We're not at all trying to say that people can't enjoy playing Brawl. It's simply that, as a competitive community (which we seem to be rapidly unbecoming), we have to decide which game is the best platform for competition. That doesn't mean one is fun and one isn't, though some people, like myself, will say that the better competitive game is more fun for us.

But, yeah, the whole point of the debate was to decide which game is the one the competitive community looks to for serious consideration and appraisal of skill and tact, not just simply whether its fun or not.

However, if it's all about just whether its fun or not, then we aren't really a competitive community anymore, and just some sort of smash fansite.

 

[Gabz]

yep youre all right we are its been decided beacse of the competitivity and the answer is melee, now what do we win about this? could be the attrction to melee? dont know melee has a lot of people into it but likereavr said it should also be fun so for about a minute playing SSBBor SSBM it would be better for the people put aside te competion an try to just have fun adn besides the competitivity should also be a iscussion within the comunnity. Im better than brawl but in the inside i think yes melee is better and i almos dont play melee cause brawl but this is not about who`s better or not its about having fun, well at least what i think( at some times yep competitivity rulz XD) and im not backing up neither of them

 

[SunDragon]

I feel the same way about the better competitive game being more fun. Maybe if I had gone to Melee tournaments and such I would be WAY more one sided towards Melee, but due to being only 14 years old, I can't drive and attend tournaments. I just think that some people are starting to forget what these games were made for, and that is to have fun. Don't get me wrong though, I'm completely on your side about Melee being the more competitive game.

 

[Gabz]

yep youre absloutly right. Besides this well i dont think if you attend tomore melee tournaments youd prefer it more but if you know how to use the wavedash in there and you practice it now there is a reason or ´´THE´´ reason why some people back melee im nost saying they´re not right but its tue if you learn how to use it you ll feel more attracted cause then is when you go more to he tournaments and you have a lot more fun than just loosin in ever battle in melee all the tree stocks and you defeating him only one stock ( like i did in all te melee tournaments XD) still i thought the game was fun so i kept going and loosing but i ha fun now i watn to lear to perfection the wavedash to attend to the melee tournaments and go too to the brawl tournaments

 

[metaXzero]

Gabz. Why do you use run-on sentences?

 

[Gabz]

what do you mean by that?

 

[metaXzero]

In your paragraphs, you rarely put periods or capitalize the beginnings of sentences. It sometimes hurts my eyes to read.

 

[Winston]

I feel the same way about the better competitive game being more fun. Maybe if I had gone to Melee tournaments and such I would be WAY more one sided towards Melee, but due to being only 14 years old, I can't drive and attend tournaments. I just think that some people are starting to forget what these games were made for, and that is to have fun. Don't get me wrong though, I'm completely on your side about Melee being the more competitive game.

>.>

Don't you think the players that are invested in the game the most, that spend the most time on it, get the most out of it?

in other words, melee tournaments were (are) insanely fun. For people who enjoy brawl, I'm sure a brawl tournament is the same. A tournament for any good game takes the fun to the next level, if you're of the right personality type.

Also, it's not really relevant what the game was "made for", unless you consider video game designers as omnipotent beings who know what's best for us...

 

[Mewter]

>.>

Don't you think the players that are invested in the game the most, that spend the most time on it, get the most out of it?

in other words, melee tournaments were (are) insanely fun. For people who enjoy brawl, I'm sure a brawl tournament is the same. A tournament for any good game takes the fun to the next level, if you're of the right personality type.

Also, it's not really relevant what the game was "made for", unless you consider video game designers as omnipotent beings who know what's best for us...

Yeah, that would be kind of weird.

On the first day, the SNES was , made.
On the second day, Gameboy was created.
On the third day, Electricity was bestoed upon them.
On the fourth day, Nintendo 64 was made.
...>
Sevemth day, They all rested to play the games.


What the!?

The least we could do is ask.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

This topic proves the elitist attitude that is associated with Melee.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

This topic proves the elitist attitude that is associated with Melee.

And you are proving that 08 members are instigating children who like to get defensive without giving any reason why, thus supporting the Melee elitist.

 

[Corigames]

Vicious circle:

I am better than you. That evidently makes me elitist.

You complain about my elitism. This makes me feel even bigger.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

And you are proving that 08 members are instigating children who like to get defensive without giving any reason why, thus supporting the Melee elitist.

No, it's more so the fact people go for the, "If you like Brawl more than Melee you suck as a smash player and you should kill yourself"

It's a poor attitude that results in unneeded conflict and shows for a lack of intelligence.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

'08 members came for Brawl. '06 and before came for melee. Both types can be very difficult to deal with at times, and both groups have their intelligent posters as well.

 

[Corigames]

Lack of intelligence means that it is a vegetable or inanimate object. I think you mean lack of knowledge or wisdom.

 

[EC_Joey]

No, it's more so the fact people go for the, "If you like Brawl more than Melee you suck as a smash player and you should kill yourself"

It's a poor attitude that results in unneeded conflict and shows for a lack of intelligence.

I don't judge people who like Brawl more than Melee until they post in here. It's not my fault a huge portion of the pro-Brawl crowd that comes in here can't string together a coherent argument and has an incredible capacity for ignorance.

 

[gantrain05]

yeah, gabz posts give me a headache lol.

 

[Chuee]

Lol. I'd say that Chu is just too lazy to play.

No, I do play brawl and i played melee 0_0

But, whatever, Chu is just ignorant and naive. Something that can be improved. A person is only dumb when they refuse to accept knowledge to fill in their ignorance.

wow thanks again -_-

I think brawl can be just as competitive as melee if you want it to be. And remember some of the people that suck at brawl once sucked at melee. My opinion, people that like melee tried brawl(or saw comercials or ****) and didnt like it. Brawl fans are the ones that either came from melee and liked brawl or newcomers that never played melee. Speed of melee makes it more competitive? Id say if once you start a combo in melee the opponent cant do anything once it hits id say that would make it less competitive.


As for which one is funner, it which one you think is funner. There is not one that is actually more funner then the other because its just their opinion.

 

[gantrain05]

As for which one is funner, it which one you think is funner. There is not one that is actually more funner then the other because its just their opinion.

More fun, not "funner" and u said funner 3 times in one 2 sentence paragraph, i think you should have a talk with coreygames about grammar.

 

[EC_Joey]

No, I do play brawl and i played melee 0_0

Speed of melee makes it more competitive? Id say if once you start a combo in melee the opponent cant do anything once it hits id say that would make it less competitive.

Obviously you didn't play enough Melee to figure out that you can get out of virtually any combo through smart DI and/or interrupting attacks.

 

[Aesir]

Guys...

Jul 08.

Why are you even bothering?

 

[Jack Kieser]

Thing is though, that he has proven himself to be dumb (or at least, dense) which is why referring to him as a casual player seems to me like dressing up the fact that he is a moron by calling him a term for a general audience which is wrongly stereotyped here to begin with.

I am a casual player, but it is by choice. I just don't have the time nor money to do what is necessary to be competitive anymore. I was very involved with getting better at Melee, and just when I started to get the hang of things Brawl comes along and erases that. I reckon I could stay with Melee, but the thing is in order for me to do that I have to continue my training and I just don't have the time nor patience to do that. Maybe once I get all this crap done involving Pre-Dent I will, but that is heavily relient on how the Melee scene is holding up.

If the Melee scene comes back and gathers up even more momentum then before, the leap is obvious; if not, I will just tinker around with Brawl and hope to god a local tournament comes up so I can win me a free TV.

The thing is, Casual players like me can't dedicate the time we would like to honing our skills, and we barely have any time for ourselves. Brawl is a great game to play for that because there is just nothing to worry about; once you get good with a character it is 10-15 minutes play time and you got all the training done for the day. My melee training sessions used to be hours due to all the research I did with my combos.

Everytime I see casual player associated with a dense person it triggers off a wailing alarm in my head that won't silence because it is unfair to justify a moron in a classification that is purely a group of people who don't have the time to dedicate like they would want to.

No harm done Smooth, just how I see things.

I don't usually quote WoT's from this far back, but I just had to applaud LavisFiend for how accurate this is.

We're not at all trying to say that people can't enjoy playing Brawl. It's simply that, as a competitive community (which we seem to be rapidly unbecoming), we have to decide which game is the best platform for competition. That doesn't mean one is fun and one isn't, though some people, like myself, will say that the better competitive game is more fun for us.

But, yeah, the whole point of the debate was to decide which game is the one the competitive community looks to for serious consideration and appraisal of skill and tact, not just simply whether its fun or not.

However, if it's all about just whether its fun or not, then we aren't really a competitive community anymore, and just some sort of smash fansite.

As for this, I want to legitimately ask a question. To the extent of my knowledge, multiple Street Fighter games are played competitively. There is one Street Fighter game that is better for competition than all the rest (because there is no way they can all be equal), but regardless of this fact multiple versions of Street Fighter are still played in a competitive setting. Why can't this thinking apply? All the talk I hear is that 'Melee is better than Brawl, and we should go back to Melee because Brawl is so bad', but why is this the case? Why can't the community as a whole just go, 'We see the inherent flaws in both games, as well as both of their strengths. We think Melee is a more competitive game, but there is a venue for both games, so we will support both games'?

 

[Aesir]

^ You see that pro-brawl guys.

Be more like jack..>_>;

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

^ You see that pro-brawl guys.

Be more like jack..>_>;

I gave up on arguing with 08 members just a moment ago when I realized how stupid they are.

 

[MarKO X]

No matter what I still like Brawl better for competition.

But as far as this whole "elitist" thing... please. Just stop using that for an argument as to why the Melee fans say Melee is better for competition. That's an even easier way out to say Brawl is better than rather just saying, "Brawl is better because it has more content." At least you're giving a reason on what you've seen. "Just saying that Melee fans think Melee is better because they have some elitist attitude towards the game," is completely unfair. They've played both games. They've gotten as good as they're gonna get in both games. (I say that because not all Melee fans are pros, but are a part of the competitive community in the sense of entering tournaments or something like that). They've analyzed both games as games, and as a result, have come across an opinion that is widespread across the competitive Smash community. Yes, it may seem like some of the Melee fans are trying to make it some kind of fact that Melee is the better competitive game when it's still simply just a widely held opinion, but look... try analyzing both games for what they are. Compare and contrast. That's what I did. And from there, I've determined that I like Brawl more for comp. Who knows, maybe the Melee players are right, the game is shallow, and I'll end up going back to Melee for comp. (although by then, I'll probably have a career as a writer or a computer programmer and could hardly care less while the community evolves.) But this whole "elitist" argument... just stop it. Okay? STOP!

It's not elitist, it's just the majority that you can't beat or persuade.
Analyze both games, and maybe you'll find out that Melee is the better competitive game, or maybe you'll be like me and like what Brawl has to offer for comp. instead.
Empty arguments, generally, DO NOT help the Brawl side of life, do they?

 

[LOL_Master]

the problem with people that say 'oh i've played melee' compared to those that say 'well you haven't played enough melee' is the different levels of understanding the game. there's only a few that really know the true depth of melee, but it's so incredibly hard to let the other thousands of people that say 'i do play melee' really understand, my mind opened up when i played m2k more than a few times, at first you don't know what the hell is going on, but then when you step back and really look at what's going on, you realize something much greater, at least that's how it was for me, perhaps others might take more explanation instead of just playing experiences

 

[Reaver197]

As for this, I want to legitimately ask a question. To the extent of my knowledge, multiple Street Fighter games are played competitively. There is one Street Fighter game that is better for competition than all the rest (because there is no way they can all be equal), but regardless of this fact multiple versions of Street Fighter are still played in a competitive setting. Why can't this thinking apply? All the talk I hear is that 'Melee is better than Brawl, and we should go back to Melee because Brawl is so bad', but why is this the case? Why can't the community as a whole just go, 'We see the inherent flaws in both games, as well as both of their strengths. We think Melee is a more competitive game, but there is a venue for both games, so we will support both games'?

Well, I guess I did make it sort of seem like we had to choose one or the other in that post, but I have been vocal in my support of using both games for tournaments. I think that Brawl, even though I have issues with it, could be a really great tool to recruit people into the competitive Smash community. I really want a dual boot community, because properly implemented and done, would be of great benefit to both games.

However, as of the moment, it does seem that an increase of support of Brawl means a decreased support of Melee. The predominant mindset seems to be that Brawl and Melee are both trying to take slices from the same pie and that more for one means less for the other. I know that's wrong, but some of the attitudes from both sides seem to reinforce that idea.

By the way, nice post MarKO X. Thanks for explaining that.

And, lol, I'm sorry Chu. I know I definitely seem like an *** to you for saying that, but I'm not trying to look down on you. I just don't think you know enough about Melee, which is not a terrible or unfixable thing. Bah, I probably don't help at all with the whole "elitist" view, but I try to call things as I think they are.