Samus is bad.

[Emblem Lord]

Pierce and Bleed: Please do not perpetuate false information. Marth is not broken. He is not on the same level as MK, Snake, and G&W. And further more Wario, R.O.B and Falco are not on Marth's level. They have worse match-ups overall and he is doing better in tournaments then they are and he has been for months.

Anyway, you guys are silly if you can't see what Hylian is doing.

He knows Samus is a bad character, but he also recognizes that she may have hidden potential that most people overlook.

Don't delude yourself by saying she isn't bad though. She is. But she also has her own advantages as well. Hylian is trying to get all of you to think about Samus on a deeper level. You can't prove Hylian wrong about Samus being bad. It's a fact. What you CAN do is prove that she isn't nearly as bad as most people think.

 

[Ragnar0k]

The thing about Samus that most people fail to understand is that she is heavy and has a fantastic recovery. This means that she lives a lot longer than most characters even for Brawl standards. Living to more than 200% isn't unheard of. Also she racks up damage deceptively quick so even though her kill moves don't start killing until higher percents, they still kill fairly quickly. Also Samus doesn't need to flat out kill off the sides or the tops because she has one of the best off stage games. She has a magnificent spike and can gimp fantastically with her projectiles, zair, bair, and nair. The key to playing a good Samus, as I have learned from watching Tudors videos, is to play on the edge. This is where Samus shines. She has so many options off the side that most people just don't think about. She is floaty, so she can stay in the air a very long time, combine this with bomb jumping and she can play for a long time away from the stage; something not many characters can easily do. She has 2 very quick recoveries to make edgehogging easier. Her zair can be used to gain invincibility on the corner when it is crucial, not something many characters are able to do. The key to Samus is to get the opponent off the side, I've found that once this is accomplished and you understand how to use Samus they should almost always die.

Quoted myself from another thread.

 

[Falconv1.0]

lol @ Marth being broken in Brawl. Marth is really good in Brawl, but not even number 3 (somewhere from 4th to 7th)

See MetaKnight @ number 1, Snake @ 2, and R.O.B., King Dedede, Mr. Game and Watch, Falco, and even Wario at the top, all on par, barely below or above Marth (take it from a good Marth main).

In fact, Metaknight completely neutralizes the reason to play Marth competatively. He's better in almost every way.

You should drop Marth for saying that. >_>

Emblem Lord hit the nail on the head. I am absolutely amazed we're still bringing players in to show that how good a character is. Like all the freaking noobs saying everyone is viable by saying "B-but look at Gimpyfish!!1111". That **** should have ended way before the launch of Brawl.

Samus has some cool things going for her, but that doesn't make her good. Tudor capitalizes on these awesome things like a good player, you people should take a hint.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

WTH is this garbage.

Samus players in this thread have shown more than enough evidence that Samus is a good character.

If you think shes bad, please gtfo and stop wasting this community's time.

 

[Popertop]

Does anybody see the similarities between Ibuki and Samus based on my analysis?

'Cause I mean, Ibuki is pretty bad, but she's pretty badass once you get below the surface and under the hood...

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Pierce and Bleed: Please do not perpetuate false information. Marth is not broken. He is not on the same level as MK, Snake, and G&W. And further more Wario, R.O.B and Falco are not on Marth's level. They have worse match-ups overall and he is doing better in tournaments then they are and he has been for months.

Anyway, you guys are silly if you can't see what Hylian.

He knows Samus is a bad character, but he also recognizes that she may have hidden potential that most people overlook.

Don't delude yourself by saying she isn't bad though. She is. But she also has her own advantages as well. Hylian is trying to get all of you to think about Samus on a deeper level. You can't prove Hylian wrong about Samus being bad. It's a fact. What you CAN do is prove that she isn't nearly as bad as most people think.

I'd like to know why exactly you think Samus is bad. Considering you don't even play her.

 

[Xyro77]

I'd like to know why exactly you think Samus is bad. Considering you don't even play her.

DUde, dont be stupid. samus is bad.

You people hang on to the idea that she is good or has all EVEN match ups or that she has hidden potential. SHe is sheer trash. There are worse chars but she is indeed bad.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

DUde, dont be stupid. samus is bad.

You people hang on to the idea that she is good or has all EVEN match ups or that she has hidden potential. SHe is sheer trash. There are worse chars but she is indeed bad.

No offense, but I'll take Tudor's word over yours.

 

[Julz]

DUde, dont be stupid. samus is bad.

You people hang on to the idea that she is good or has all EVEN match ups or that she has hidden potential. SHe is sheer trash. There are worse chars but she is indeed bad.

What's wrong with thinking she has potential? We've barely scratched the surface with Samus. Consider the lack of a detailed match up list, how we ignore setups for her smashes and how we're just starting to consider the mid-combat ZZS transformation. The ZZS transformation gives you three chances to kill whereas the charge shot would only give one.

Secondly, why do you still main her? If you're a big fan of the Metroid games you can still play as Zero Suit Samus who is at least considered decent. Otherwise, there must be something you're holding on to.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

What's wrong with thinking she has potential? We've barely scratched the surface with Samus. Consider the lack of a detailed match up list, how we ignore setups for her smashes and how we're just starting to consider the mid-combat ZZS transformation. The ZZS transformation gives you three chances to kill whereas the charge shot would only give one.

Secondly, why do you still main her? If you're a big fan of the Metroid games you can still play as Zero Suit Samus who is at least considered decent. Otherwise, there must be something you're holding on to.

Yeah, apparently its now required for Samus mains to be whiny *****es and degrade their character at every possible convenience.

 

[Popertop]

Xyro is out to prove that a low tier can hang with the top/high tiers.

 

[Mars-]

Yeah, apparently its now required for Samus mains to be whiny *****es and degrade their character at every possible convenience.

Feb 2008 join date. I think that there are a lot of people who can see things a bit better then you. And a bit is an understatement.

 

[Emblem Lord]

FullBleed: A deep understanding of the game's engines and the basics of fighting games allows me to understand that Samus is not a good character.

BTW good sh*t overlooking the point of my post entirely and concentrating on the parts where I said Samus is bad.

 

[ADHD]

Samus is probably the most solid character in brawl, and that explains alot... She has no broken edges, or things to overpower the rest of the cast. She's just complete, she's not good or bad really, she's just OK. It's based on the player's skill totally, like marth.

 

[Coldfront]

Some people are using Tudor as an example.

If Tudor should show why samus is bad, then why did he get 33rd(I think it was that) at AZonetwo Step?

Tudor = Amazing.

Tudor plays Samus.

Tudor got 33rd at Azoneonetwo step.

How exactly does that prove Samus is good?

Good posts so far though. Keep it up.

I don't really have a problem with this logic, as it basically implies that those playing with the "better" characters have less skill than those that win with the "bad" characters.

But, to be completely honest, I don't care if people think she's bad or not. I play with Samus because I like Samus, not because she's easy to win with.

 

[0RLY]

Samus is bad. She's not horrible like Falcon. She's just not on par with Falco, Marth, and other high tiers. I've already explained why, and I don't feel like saying it again.

 

[Gum]

In other words, she is bad by the way the game was made in essence, which means she is bad because she is not broken in a game with broken characters. Imagine if her bombs had knockback, had huge hitboxes, and where proxy/timed. What if her power missiles couldn't just be swatted by marth neutral A ("power" missiles? cmon Sakurai). God forbid that happen right? but she has tools that are deadly and can make her a lot better than everyone thinks. Im actually at a nice size tourney (which I will post the results of afterwards) now and I just won my first two matches. Match 1 was against Snake and the second was against MK. I completely used Samus' psychological stengths to beat both of them. There is a thread talking about using brick walls and fear as a tool. Samus has both, and I used this to my advantage. For example: In the MK match I kept a charge shot at all times, and throughout the match I using homing missiles ans zairs buffered into bombs. I did this because I know that MK (and Marth) like to rush in when you go into the air in order to get under your attack and punish. The buffered bomb is timed perfectly to explode at proxy mode or timed (which leaves the hitbox there for two hits). I assume the bomb is going to hit and fire a charge shot which hits if in fact they did get hit by the bomb. If they dont I get a free grab or dtilt. Any other time they fear the charge shot they get read like a book and punished accordingly. In knowing how to integrate her moves into each other you put yourself in a position to always have a response.

easy-to-use and/or broken = good
fair and/or balanced = bad

harsh reality guys

 

[Crystanium]

I'd like to know why exactly you think Samus is bad. Considering you don't even play her.

No offense, but I'll take Tudor's word over yours.

You commit two fallacies here. First, Emblem Lord doesn't need to play as Samus in order to speak about how good or bad Samus is. You commit the logical fallacy of special pleading. Next, you tell Xyro that you'll take Tudor's words over his, but all you're doing here is saying, "Tudor plays as Samus. Tudor is the best Samus player. I'll take whatever Tudor says over yours or anyone elses." So, what you do here is commit ipsedixitism.

As for me, I have no problem with Samus. Everyone else can complain about how she's a terrible character in the game. I, on the other hand, will be training to be the best Samus there is, and to show others that Samus, if played right, can overcome a lot of things. All I'm doing is taking her weaknesses and trying to find ways on how I can make her better.

Edit: You know, ever since I posted up that thread with Samus' brickwalls and fear tactics, I've been noticing a lot of people speaking about these things as well. My thread is win!

 

[ADHD]

You commit two fallacies here. First, Emblem Lord doesn't need to play as Samus in order to speak about how good or bad Samus is. You commit the logical fallacy of special pleading. Next, you tell Xyro that you'll take Tudor's words over his, but all you're doing here is saying, "Tudor plays as Samus. Tudor is the best Samus player. I'll take whatever Tudor says over yours or anyone elses." So, what you do here is commit ipsedixitism.

As for me, I have no problem with Samus. Everyone else can complain about how she's a terrible character in the game. I, on the other hand, will be training to be the best Samus there is, and to show others that Samus, if played right, can overcome a lot of things. All I'm doing is taking her weaknesses and trying to find ways on how I can make her better.

Edit: You know, ever since I posted up that thread with Samus' brickwalls and fear tactics, I've been noticing a lot of people speaking about these things as well. My thread is win!

Lol, you're a nerd. But the good kind

 

[Falconv1.0]

Ok, the **** popping up in the Samus is Good topic needs to end.


This is ****ing unbelievable.

"ur just a noob who cant get past teh lernin' curve!"

Because obviously in all fighting games the deep characters are generally discarded and called bullsh-oh wait that's not true unless they suck.

 

[Crystanium]

Ok, the **** popping up in the Samus is Good topic needs to end.


This is ****ing unbelievable.

"ur just a noob who cant get past teh lernin' curve!"

Because obviously in all fighting games the deep characters are generally discarded and called bullsh-oh wait that's not true unless they suck.

Do you know what else needs to end? Your whining. Seriously, if people want to think that way about Samus, let them.

 

[Hylian]

Some more food for thought:

Most up-to-date rankings, no details: (last updated August 7, 2008)
S: Snake, Meta Knight
A: King Dedede; Mr. Game & Watch, Marth, Wario
B: Falco, ROB, Lucario, Donkey Kong, Olimar
C: Ice Climbers, Wolf, Diddy Kong, Kirby, Fox, Pit
D: Zero Suit Samus, Peach, Pikachu; Sonic, Ike, Lucas, Toon Link, Ness, Zelda, Bowser, Jigglypuff, Samus, Pokémon Trainer, SheikZelda, Luigi, Sheik, Mario, Link
E: Yoshi; Captain Falcon; Ganondorf



Midwest Rankings
S: Snake, Mr. Game & Watch, ROB, Meta Knight
A: Lucario, Wario, Marth, Pikachu, Donkey Kong, King Dedede, Wolf, Peach
B: Diddy Kong, Ike, Falco, Kirby, Bowser, Olimar, Ice Climbers
C: Fox, Lucas; Toon Link; SheikZelda, Zelda, Mario, Ganondorf, Sonic
D: Pokémon Trainer; Ness, Zero Suit Samus, Sheik
E: Pit, Luigi
U: Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, Link, Samus, Yoshi

Atlantic North Rankings
S: Meta Knight; Snake
A: King Dedede, Lucario
B: Mr. Game & Watch, Falco, Marth, Olimar, Wario, ROB, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Zero Suit Samus, Kirby, Pit
C: Ice Climbers, Pikachu, Sonic
D: Wolf, SheikZelda, Peach, Toon Link, Zelda, Pokémon Trainer, Ike
E: Sheik, Luigi, Fox, Lucas, Ness
U: Bowser, Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, Link, Mario, Samus, Yoshi

Atlantic South Rankings
S: Snake
A: Meta Knight; King Dedede, Wario, Mr. Game & Watch
B: Wolf, Marth, Donkey Kong; Olimar, Diddy Kong, Pit, Falco, Kirby, Pokémon Trainer, Fox, ROB
C: Pikachu; SheikZelda, Ness; Yoshi, Zelda, Lucas, Samus, Lucario
D: Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers
E: Sheik
U: Bowser, Ganondorf, Ike, Jigglypuff, Link, Luigi, Mario, Peach, Sonic, Toon Link, Zero Suit Samus

Pacific West Rankings
S: King Dedede, Snake
A: Wario, Meta Knight; Marth; Fox
B: Pit, ROB; Lucario; Peach, Mr. Game & Watch
C: Donkey Kong, Luigi, Ice Climbers, Falco, Kirby, Toon Link, Bowser, Samus, Mario, Olimar
D: Diddy Kong; Zelda, Zero Suit Samus, Wolf
E: Jigglypuff; Captain Falcon, Link, Ike; Sheik
U: Ganondorf, Lucas, Ness, Pikachu, Pokémon Trainer, SheikZelda, Sonic, Yoshi

Southwest Rankings
S: Snake
A: Meta Knight, Falco, Marth
B: Ice Climbers, ROB; Mr. Game & Watch, Donkey Kong, Ness
C: Olimar, Sonic; Wolf, Diddy Kong, Lucario, King Dedede, Ike
D: Samus, Fox, Peach, Wario; Jigglypuff, Zelda
E: Pit, Yoshi, Kirby; Toon Link; Lucas; Captain Falcon; Mario; Zero Suit Samus
U: Bowser, Ganondorf, Link, Luigi, Pikachu, Pokémon Trainer, Sheik, SheikZelda

 

[Gum]

lols rankngs don't fully determine character ability though. food for thought? slightly. not arguing her being good or bad, just saying their are other factors in the mix here.

 

[Crystanium]

Thanks, Hylian. I have a question. What do "S" and "U" stand for? Also, from the list that you provided,

• D
• U
• U
• C
• C
• D

Liek, wtf?!

 

[Gum]

lol so Samus carried me through 5 rounds before i was knocked out as falco in the tourney today. she totally sucks, i see what everyone means.

 

[Popertop]

Hey guys, look at my character analysis and draw parallels.

 

[da K.I.D.]

S basically means Super tier, like better than A class.
and U stands for Unplayable
and taking the average of all of the regions puts samus at just above the level of unplayable

 

[Falconv1.0]

Do you know what else needs to end? Your whining. Seriously, if people want to think that way about Samus, let them.

Quit talking like my points are aimed at you. I've taken up the job of noob smasher, please let me do my job. I'm trying to get the friggin' point into their heads, not yours, you already understand.

 

[T-nuts]

Quit talking like my points are aimed at you. I've taken up the job of noob smasher, please let me do my job. I'm trying to get the friggin' point into their heads, not yours, you already understand.

hahaha "noob smasher?"

 

[Crystanium]

Quit talking like my points are aimed at you. I've taken up the job of noob smasher, please let me do my job. I'm trying to get the friggin' point into their heads, not yours, you already understand.

The Character Chat for Samus mainers and alternative players is my community, Falconv1.0. I care what all of them have to say. I understand what you're trying to do, but please be patient and less aggressive. That's all I ask.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

In other words, she is bad by the way the game was made in essence, which means she is bad because she is not broken in a game with broken characters. Imagine if her bombs had knockback, had huge hitboxes, and where proxy/timed. What if her power missiles couldn't just be swatted by marth neutral A ("power" missiles? cmon Sakurai). God forbid that happen right? but she has tools that are deadly and can make her a lot better than everyone thinks. Im actually at a nice size tourney (which I will post the results of afterwards) now and I just won my first two matches. Match 1 was against Snake and the second was against MK. I completely used Samus' psychological stengths to beat both of them. There is a thread talking about using brick walls and fear as a tool. Samus has both, and I used this to my advantage. For example: In the MK match I kept a charge shot at all times, and throughout the match I using homing missiles ans zairs buffered into bombs. I did this because I know that MK (and Marth) like to rush in when you go into the air in order to get under your attack and punish. The buffered bomb is timed perfectly to explode at proxy mode or timed (which leaves the hitbox there for two hits). I assume the bomb is going to hit and fire a charge shot which hits if in fact they did get hit by the bomb. If they dont I get a free grab or dtilt. Any other time they fear the charge shot they get read like a book and punished accordingly. In knowing how to integrate her moves into each other you put yourself in a position to always have a response.

easy-to-use and/or broken = good
fair and/or balanced = bad

harsh reality guys

Dude your attitude is too positive for this thread. We're supposed to be talking about why Samus is horrible and why I'm a noob or something.

 

[Popertop]

Samus has some great aerial pressure and off the stage game is too good.
Her mixup is amazing, one of the strongest in the game.
She can gimp like nobodies business, even more so by limiting opponent's options with projectiles and zair.
She has some good stuff to get people off her back. Retreating bombs can easily switch up the momentum and open up **** combos. Up-B OoS is hard to punish, but doesn't work all that well against disjoint characters that space their attacks well.

She's slow as hell, other characters **** her midair game and her killing options outside of gimps and charge shot are minimal and difficult to set up. Gets mauled by high tiers.

 

[Ravin]

(I doubt nay of you will read this block of information, cept for Elitest.)

I really enjoy playing Samus, just because of the debuff from Melee to Brawl doesn't mean she sucks. People took her up when she came in brawl and was pissed because she was nerfed and or changed. relearning her is a challenge and many people don't seem to want to step up to it. Samus is complicated and has a strong metagme in the longrun. People who are bluntly saying she sucks now would be foolish not to take a second, or maybe even a third look and things that could be missed. When brawl first came out lots of people mentioned how much "Snake sucked" because it was quickly said without a reason. as i saw a post before "The less people that play Samus, the longer it takes to prove she is good" This is true. You figure most of the Loafers and "I want to be good" in brawl pick MK, and Snake because they have like 2 frame kill moves and proirties that are disgusting?

Id gladly step up to prove Samus is good. Which is possibly why I started entering more and more tounries. Further improving my Samus, getting the name out, and trying out harder for her.

So ifs she bad now, so what? Find your own path.

Samus's off stage game is excellent.
Her Projectile pressure with missile canceling, charged shot, mines, and Zair are easily an aerisnal worth using.

Her Utilt, Fair, Bair and Dtilt all auto cancel upon landing, this is excellent for SH Fair into Dtilt, shorthop, Zair missile pressure repeat.

Because not many people play a Samus right now, it is very easy to take advantage of getting ahead of everyones game. Knowing how most snakes play and MKS play will help you ALOT against them. because most MKs and Snakes are ready to play... well other MKs and Snakes. Putting most of them on a random note going (WTF Samus?) will confuse them when they are easily comboed and KO'ed because they weren't expecting it.

her Float. I can't even say how much i like this. People ***** about it a lot because its annoying, but have you noticed shes a heavy character? but easily floats around like she is lighter then normal? A very excellent recover and even Zair stage glitch alongside ledge charged shot?

A lot of people dont see how wide open Samus's game is right now. To simply throw her out the window is bad, and rather foolish.

/endrant.

Hope i proved a point or two.

Edit - I am almost willing to bet MONEY on it that as soon as a serious AT comes around (Like IC and Snake have alongside D3 and ect.) Many people would flock to play her just for the fact of that. I donno about you, but I like to be different.

 

[Quez256]

Quit talking like my points are aimed at you. I've taken up the job of noob smasher, please let me do my job. I'm trying to get the friggin' point into their heads, not yours, you already understand.

So, in essence, you're the......nope, not going to start a flame-fest. -.-

Seriously, call yourself the friggin' "noob-smasher" or whatever the hell you want, but keep in mind, the forums operate better when people post constructively, and help said "noobs" out, and not bashing them for asking questions or giving misinformed opinions, since that does nothing but provoke flaming.

I understand your point, just please tone it down a bit.

Thanks ^_^

 

[DMG]

Some more food for thought:

Most up-to-date rankings, no details: (last updated August 7, 2008)
Southwest Rankings
S: Snake
A: Meta Knight, Falco, Marth
B: Ice Climbers, ROB; Mr. Game & Watch, Donkey Kong, Ness
C: Olimar, Sonic; Wolf, Diddy Kong, Lucario, King Dedede, Ike
D: Samus, Fox, Peach, Wario; Jigglypuff, Zelda
E: Pit, Yoshi, Kirby; Toon Link; Lucas; Captain Falcon; Mario; Zero Suit Samus
U: Bowser, Ganondorf, Link, Luigi, Pikachu, Pokémon Trainer, Sheik, SheikZelda

Holy Crap... Peach, Samus, Ike, and Fox have higher rankings than Wario for the Southwest? I had to do a double-double take just to process this.

Oh yeah, tell me if this summary of the arguments going back and forth is correct... Samus is bad, blah blah blah, is she really?, yes she is, no she isn't, open your eyes she sucks, no she rocks, whatever she still sucks. Something like that?

 

[Coldfront]

Quit talking like my points are aimed at you. I've taken up the job of noob smasher, please let me do my job. I'm trying to get the friggin' point into their heads, not yours, you already understand.

Your not trying to get a point into anyone's head. You're trying to look intelligent on a message board by being condescending and disrespectful. If you were actually trying to make a point, you would do so calmly with logic and respect. Apparently, you actually believe that the way to change someone's mind is to ask them if they're an idiot or ignorant. Most people don't respond well to that. But, anyway, back to the issue at hand.

I'll be clear. I like playing with Samus more than any other character. I'll take my chances going up against any MK, Marth, Falco, Snake, Kirby, ROB, Sheik, or whoever with my Samus. I may lose. But I'll learn from the loss and come back better next time. With my mindset, saying she sucks is nothing more than an excuse as to why you lost. Everyone understands some characters have more advantages, but unless you're totally new to the game you should have known that before you chose Samus.

I'll never understand why anyone plays with a character when they themselves actually believe they suck, unless they're trying to humiliate their opponent. If your character has no good points, choose someone else, unless you're a glutton for punishment. If that isn't the case and they do have some good points, use them to your advantage and understand that your character has some weaknesses and try to get over them.

Unless everyone here has found that by reciting, "Samus sucks" over and over makes her a better character, I fail to see the point. And while I'm at it, there is no love lost for those like Hylian who play other characters. I understand Hylian plays to win, and if his best shot is playing with another character he likes, great. Thanks for helping me out early on by showing me some cool stuff with Samus. Same with everyone else. But Samus being my favorite character, I'm looking for ways to make her better, not promote the general consensus that she sucks.

 

[M@v]

Its best to address this not by "ZOMG SAMUS RULES" or "ZOMG SAMUS SUCKS", but by listing the FACTS.

PROS OF SAMUS:

-Still has an awesome recovery
-Zair is a great move for spacing and approach
-Fair is a good damage racker, and can be a good approach move.
-Bombs are great for mindgames due to the long amount of time you can stay airborne
-Most moves still has farily quick speed
-She is still pretty heavy.
-Can still hold her own in a projectile match
-Amazing grab and throws IMO, due to its crazy range


CONS:
-Charge Shot is horrificaly nerfed
-utter lack of priority
-Most moves have been nerfed, limiting kill options(bair, dtilt, fsmash, dair for spikes, and dsmash if they are light)
-dtilt is still strong, but smaller hitbox
-Missles has been slightly nerfed.
-Shes never been the fastest character.


Ill let people decide for themselves about how good/bad samus is. There is no denying she is worse than in melee, but not necessarily bad. I for one as a melee samus main still use her in friendlies occasionaly, trying to find ways to use her better, and trying to find ATs. Untill then Fox and Lucario will hold the line for me.

 

[Gum]

Dude your attitude is too positive for this thread. We're supposed to be talking about why Samus is horrible and why I'm a noob or something.

Here's my thing man. I find Samus to play just fine. She feels perfect in matches and I don't have problems KO'ing. When people say "Well Samus sucks" or "Samus is bad" even though I consistently place well in tourneys and beat the so-called best characters in the game, it makes me wonder whether or not people are really using her to the best of HER ability as well as their own of course. Then again, it comes down to certain things, such as whether you like her character enough or not. In my case, Samus is my favorite Nintendo character so I put in the work to get good with her despite what people are saying. If you aren't that into her, then thats cool too.

 

[PK-ow!]

Its best to address this not by "ZOMG SAMUS RULES" or "ZOMG SAMUS SUCKS", but by listing the FACTS.

PROS OF SAMUS:

-Still has an awesome recovery
-Zair is a great move for spacing and approach
-Fair is a good damage racker, and can be a good approach move.
-Bombs are great for mindgames due to the long amount of time you can stay airborne
-Most moves still has farily quick speed
-She is still pretty heavy.
-Can still hold her own in a projectile match
-Amazing grab and throws IMO, due to its crazy range

Zair also Brawl-combos into Charge shot.
And you forgot her nil landing lag on all aerials.

CONS:
-Charge Shot is horrificaly nerfed
-utter lack of priority
-Most moves have been nerfed, limiting kill options(bair, dtilt, fsmash, dair for spikes, and dsmash if they are light)
-dtilt is still strong, but smaller hitbox
-Missles has been slightly nerfed.
-Shes never been the fastest character.

Fast how? Not in running or any kind of movement, but her attacks come out fast. nair, fair, uair, dtilt, bair fast enough, Fsmash faster than many others'.

Missiles have been majorly nerfed. Smash missiles can't kill a bleeding MK who's already standing on the side of Smashville. It's like their only use is to break shields... and be somewhat annoying sources of damage.

Ill let people decide for themselves about how good/bad samus is. There is no denying she is worse than in melee, but not necessarily bad. I for one as a melee samus main still use her in friendlies occasionaly, trying to find ways to use her better, and trying to find ATs. Untill then Fox and Lucario will hold the line for me.

What I would appreciate, actually, is a scientization of *why* she is bad. I can feel how her moveset is limited, but how to capture this in words? It's the obvious, yes, of no telegraphed K.O. moves, but also... a lack of defenses somehow.. the inability to defend herself with aggression. Not inability but difficulty.

It's something that, if FireEmblem is being honest with himself when he says he has "deep understanding of game physics and fighting games," he knows, but I doubt that's a scientific form of knowledge, or anything he could put in language.
I want his knowledge, but in a syntactic form.

(Meanwhile I'd settle for Tudor's knowledge of Samus' goodness in whatever form would allow me to play like him )

 

[Gum]

@PK-Ow!
Its not worth it man. I've been given so many reason's why Marth ***** Samus, and then I turn around and actually WIN agains Marths. go figure. Thats just to say that its better to just know yourself the abilty of you and your character of choice.