Sakurai does not want Smash to be a competitive franchise

[Tee ay eye]

That's a great analogy, except that it's not just one thing. The game was noticably slowed down, they removed techs to make it more casual, certain characters are way better than others, certain characters are way worse than others, it's harder to combo, chain grabs are ridiculous, camping is one of the best strategies, recovering is as easy as wanting to survive, AND tripping. Not to mention I probably forgot a bunch of things. So that health inspector would probably walk in to the place he gave an A last time and see holes in the wall, the carpet ripped up, ants on the desk, and Sakurai sitting at his desk on the phone going, "YOU WANT MIRRION DORRERS? NO! HERE BRAWR! HAR HAR HAR!"

Greatest post I've ever read.

I'd sig it if SWF's sig limits weren't so retardedly vice-like on your testicles.

p.s. I'm another non-stupider 08er, but I actually joined before and my original account got banned. Guess what for? For hating on Brawl and other stuff resulting from hating on Brawl.

 

[-Mars-]

Hmmm, I joined at the end of the melee era, I was honestly just trying to beat my little brother at the time(no joke), and this site opened up a whole other world for me. I didn't even know Brawl was due to come out.

 

[Corigames]

You see, I'm a very agreeable guy when you talk to me without being stupid :D

Everyone says things like, "Corey, that's a great opinion,"or "Corey, I agree with that." But then there are other people that say I don't say anything.

 

[DarkRenji]

I don't understand the random stereotyping of 08er's myself actually. It makes no sense. You SHOULD be stereotyping everyone from October 07 down cus they're just scrubs/n00bs who joined for E4All info.

Lol. Don't stereotype anyone.
I read this and was like, "Lol, I'm from October 2007". I joined in october because that's when I went to my first melee tourney. So yeah, don't stereotype people. -.-

 

[Corigames]

I'll stop stereotyping people when they stop falling into the stereotype!

 

[Iron Thorn]

Question. If it's alright for you to hate Brawl, why is it unacceptable to hate Melee? You seem to treat preferring Brawl as thought it were a defect of character.

 

[MarKO X]

That's a good question.

I actually can't stand the speed of Melee at times. It's like i got into this blissful high, and when the match is over, win or lose, I'm sometimes like, "WTF just happened?"

PS: I'm playing all three you know. I'd play more competitive SSB64, but Vista sucks when it comes to running PJ64 online *curses sporadically*, so I play online at my friend's house. XP FTW.

 

[Corigames]

Question. If it's alright for you to hate Brawl, why is it unacceptable to hate Melee? You seem to treat preferring Brawl as thought it were a defect of character.

Preferring competitive Brawl over Melee is beyond a defect of character. Preferring Brawl for laughs is fine.

 

[GreenKirby]

Question. If it's alright for you to hate Brawl, why is it unacceptable to hate Melee? You seem to treat preferring Brawl as thought it were a defect of character.

It's because they're naz....

I mean, it's because they're facis......

I mean, because hating Brawl and loving Melee is the 'hip' thing to do on Smashboards.

If you don't, to the naz... I mean. the fac..... I mean to 'harcore' players, you're not truly hardcore.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Because so far Melee has proven itself to be the most suited for competitive play.
If you prefer brawl casually, that's fine.
If you personally prefer brawl competitively...that's fine too.
If you dare try to say that brawl is a better competitive game than melee, then you get slapped with 7 years of melee experience proving that brawl's a piece of **** in comparison.

 

[LuLLo]

If Sakurai didn't want Brawl to be competitive, things would be FAR worse then they're right now imo...
You can still play it competitively, although not as good as Melee, it's STILL a good fighter when played right.
But the fact remains that Sakurai COULD have made a better competitive game, which at the same time would hold the qualities of a casual game, so that everyone could jump out of pure happiness.....but he didn't...

 

[Jack Kieser]

Question. If it's alright for you to hate Brawl, why is it unacceptable to hate Melee? You seem to treat preferring Brawl as thought it were a defect of character.

Because people are, at a base level, idiots. It's one of those 'you have a right to your opinion, as long as your opinion is my opinion' things. Most of the people who would berate, belittle, or flame you because you like competitive Brawl but not competitive Melee aren't worth associating with, anyway. DS has the best way to think about it, honestly. But people, especially people online, will be ***** until the end of time. Try to ignore them.

I'd be a lot easier, though, if it wasn't established practice on SWF to do stuff like that, though.

 

[Iron Thorn]

...I just got the best idea!

A director's cut kinda edition of Melee.

Melee physics
No tripping
Brawl graphics
A few characters switched around from the Brawl cast (e.g. get rid of Lucas for Mewtwo, scrap Olimar for Krystal [whom I can't stand personally, but unfortunately she is the most likely gal to be put in the next smash])
GOOD Online
Nerfed MK and Snake

Pure genius!

 

[Dark Sonic]

...I just got the best idea!

A director's cut kinda edition of Melee.

Melee physics
No tripping
Brawl graphics
A few characters switched around from the Brawl cast (e.g. get rid of Lucas for Mewtwo, scrap Olimar for Krystal [whom I can't stand personally, but unfortunately she is the most likely gal to be put in the next smash])
GOOD Online
Nerfed MK and Snake

Pure genius!

I would so buy that.

And basically, the best way to avoid confrontation is to avoid making the comparison all together.

Now enjoy some amazing Sonic music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rza1OaMLiRs&feature=related

 

[Iron Thorn]

:'D

Oh geez, the memories. I friggin' GREW UP on Sonic 2. *gets out glowsticks*

 

[thumbswayup]

I prefer Melee graphics. That may be just because Fox looks so homosexual in Brawl.

 

[GreenKirby]

...I just got the best idea!

A director's cut kinda edition of Melee.

Melee physics
No tripping
Brawl graphics
A few characters switched around from the Brawl cast (e.g. get rid of Lucas for Mewtwo, scrap Olimar for Krystal [whom I can't stand personally, but unfortunately she is the most likely gal to be put in the next smash])
GOOD Online
Nerfed MK and Snake

Pure genius!

Keep tripping in. And by that, I mean moves that can make characters trip. Keep Brawl characters, add the cut Melee characters

 

[MarKO X]

Hyper Smash Brothers: the Anniversary Edition.

First, you choose the physics engine you wanna play with.

Classic
Melee (I'm almost sure this would be the competitive standard. lol)
Brawl

Then you choose a character, a lofty roster of 40 characters.
But that's not all, when you choose a character, you get to choose which version of the character you wanna play as...

Classic (available only to the original 12 characters)
Melee (available to everyone who was in Melee)
Brawl (available to all the charaters except Roy, Mewtwo, Dr. Mario, and Pichu)

There are so many little yet juicy details missing from this though... it might need a thread of its own... maybe...

 

[BEES]

Nintendo would not waste all that time making a party game. Brawl is far too complex, far too much effort to learn for players, and far too much of a fiscal endeavor for Nintendo to intend a party game as the end product.

I can only assume they meant to make it semi-competitive. Something you could have small dorm tournaments with. Not a hard fighter, but at the same time not a party game.

I would cite the buffering system, as well as the fact that the game is still hard to learn, even if it is easier to master than Melee (not that I think anybody has yet).

 

[Kaabi]

Hyper Smash Brothers: the Anniversary Edition.

First, you choose the physics engine you wanna play with.

Classic
Melee (I'm almost sure this would be the competitive standard. lol)
Brawl

Then you choose a character, a lofty roster of 40 characters.
But that's not all, when you choose a character, you get to choose which version of the character you wanna play as...

Classic (available only to the original 12 characters)
Melee (available to everyone who was in Melee)
Brawl (available to all the charaters except Roy, Mewtwo, Dr. Mario, and Pichu)

There are so many little yet juicy details missing from this though... it might need a thread of its own... maybe...

Yeah... that would be perfect!
Actually that makes me think that Ninitendo could take another clue (except good online) from Sony and Microsoft: Downloadable Content. We wouldn't have to buy another game then

Concerning the thread question though I think that no one at Nintendo wanted to make Smash a competitive fighting franchise. After all Melee's technical aspects were mistakes in programming, weren't they?

 

[Jack Kieser]

Yeah... that would be perfect!
Actually that makes me think that Ninitendo could take another clue (except good online) from Sony and Microsoft: Downloadable Content. We wouldn't have to buy another game then

Concerning the thread question though I think that no one at Nintendo wanted to make Smash a competitive fighting franchise. After all Melee's technical aspects were mistakes in programming, weren't they?

First of all, ****-to-the-yeah for Athens, Greece. Hopefully, I'll be going to school there next fall, and if that's the case, I REALLY hope there is a Smash community waiting for me.

Secondly, not ALL of Melee's tech game was based around programming oversights. L-cancelling was intentional, though WD'ing probably wasn't in the design documents. I mean, you can't really relegate Melee's tech game to 'all intentional' or 'all oversights'.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

Ok I completely agree with Gimpy.

Brawl actually killed my desire to even play melee, why not play a fighting game that was intended to be competitive from the start, GGX2 SCIV and such.

The thing being for me, if Sakurai didn't want the game to be competitive, then I guess it shouldn't be played that way. It's like trying to force the square peg into the round hole, you can try and the only way it will ever work is if some gets broken.

If believe everything is opinionated then you are right, so shut up and enjoy reading comments and giving the two cents that no one else ever will.

By all means lets dream of remaking a game and let's dream that the characters we hated in it are gone,

...I just got the best idea!

A director's cut kinda edition of Melee.

Melee physics
No tripping
Brawl graphics
A few characters switched around from the Brawl cast (e.g. get rid of Lucas for Mewtwo, scrap Olimar for Krystal [whom I can't stand personally, but unfortunately she is the most likely gal to be put in the next smash])
GOOD Online
Nerfed MK and Snake

Pure genius!

, Pure opinion and screw you you Olimar hater trying to trade a character in for another worthless star fox character addition.

Pardon my hate by listen, have your opinions, like or don't like melee, like or don't like brawl, or don't give a crap, Sakurai won't care and no one will save this wrenched game. The best you can hope for is that if there is ever a fourth iteration of the series is that it will have two buttons, since it's intended for the wii and it will have 0 chance of being better than brawl. Think about it and cry

 

[Dark Sonic]

L-canceling was intentional, dash dancing was intentional, wavedashing was just abusing the physics engine (so it may not have been intended to use like that, but it certainly wasn't a programming error), ect.

In fact, I'm hard pressed to find advance techs that are glitches (super wavedash, yoyo glitches, and Mewtwo's side B pull through battlefield thing are the only ones I can think of).

 

[RDK]

It's because they're naz....

I mean, it's because they're facis......

I mean, because hating Brawl and loving Melee is the 'hip' thing to do on Smashboards.

If you don't, to the naz... I mean. the fac..... I mean to 'harcore' players, you're not truly hardcore.

Actually, this is exactly the opposite. A large part of SWF now is made up primarily of people who hopped onto the Brawl bandwagon. The sheer amount of people who bring up the argument that "It's hip to hate on Brawl" and complain about random Melee vets bashing the game is a testament to the ridiculously exaggerated pro-Melee to pro-Brawl ratio.

And about stereotyping: if you're an '08er, I pretty much consider you to be like every other '08er on the boards until you prove yourself otherwise. Unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast. Most '08ers are stupid.

If you're even remotely intelligent, you'll probably stand out from everyone else and earn people's respect.

 

[Firus]

Preferring competitive Brawl over Melee is beyond a defect of character.

This is siggable.

Because people are, at a base level, idiots. It's one of those 'you have a right to your opinion, as long as your opinion is my opinion' things. Most of the people who would berate, belittle, or flame you because you like competitive Brawl but not competitive Melee aren't worth associating with, anyway. DS has the best way to think about it, honestly. But people, especially people online, will be ***** until the end of time. Try to ignore them.

I'd be a lot easier, though, if it wasn't established practice on SWF to do stuff like that, though.

Au contraire, I would never flame someone for hating Melee/liking Brawl. I have friends who prefer Brawl over Melee. I don't flame them for it. I respectfully disagree, however, and I have a right to.

The ONLY time I will berate someone for hating Melee/loving Brawl is when they bring stupid lies to the table as an argument. Like in another thread here on the wonderful GBD, I saw someone saying Brawl was better because auto-sweetspotting means you actually have to edgeguard and in Melee, you just knocked someone off and they died.
-_-

This same person went on to say that Brawl's floaty physics are better because in Melee you just pulled off an aerial and died.
-_-

That kind of bull annoys me. Until someone brings in things as facts (such as, you die when you pull off an aerial in Melee...in other words, you're a scrub and you're blaming the game for it) that are not true, or brings in things as facts that are actually opinions, I don't have a problem with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rza1OaMLiRs&feature=related

That's awesome.
Although I never really liked the Chemical Plant or its music...still, it's a great remix.

Pardon my hate by listen, have your opinions, like or don't like melee, like or don't like brawl, or don't give a crap, Sakurai won't care and no one will save this wrenched game. The best you can hope for is that if there is ever a fourth iteration of the series is that it will have two buttons, since it's intended for the wii and it will have 0 chance of being better than brawl. Think about it and cry

...and I thought I was pessimistic.

 

[GreenKirby]

L-canceling was intentional, dash dancing was intentional, wavedashing was just abusing the physics engine (so it may not have been intended to use like that, but it certainly wasn't a programming error), ect.

In fact, I'm hard pressed to find advance techs that are glitches (super wavedash, yoyo glitches, and Mewtwo's side B pull through battlefield thing are the only ones I can think of).

Do we truly know 100% that L-canceling and dash dancing was intentional?

 

[RDK]

The official website for 64 told you how to L-cancel, and it was kept in for Melee. Dash-dancing was also intentional.

 

[Jack Kieser]

And see, Firus, that's fine. That's the way people should think. I applaud you for that because you don't fall into the common pitfalls that a lot of other people do fall into.

Flaming is fine, as long as there's a reason for it. Unjustified, however, it's just douchebaggery.

@RDK: See, I still have a little problem because I (and this is a matter of personal philosophy) assume that everyone is decent until proven otherwise. I don't like that 'guilty until proven innocent' mentality that like 90% of the boards have towards '08 players. I know full well that I was in their shoes once, and so I'm not about to belittle someone for an inevitability; it's like *****ing at a worker 'cause he didn't have the good sense to start out as a CEO. Most people lurk at least through one thread before even signing up for the site, much less posting. If they see this mentality of ours (well, not mine) shining through before they even post, of course they're going to post stupidly. They'll want to prove to you that they aren't just another '08 poster, inevitably dooming themselves to Yuna-**** in the process.

I'm sure if people didn't feel like they had something to prove right off the bat, they'd be a little more open to help, and that just doesn't happen with a 'guilty until proven innocent' mentality.

 

[GreenKirby]

Nevermind. lol.

 

[Iron Thorn]

Note: I hate Krystal to bits and wouldn't want her in any smash game ever, nor would I want Olimar gone. I was merely saying that for sake of example.

And, Dr. Hyde, according to you the best we can do is keep playing Melee until a) the cows come home, b) All the bigwigs at nintendo croak/step down and a bunch of hardcore competitive game developers take their place and ditch the Wii completely for a more traditional controller, and make the next gen Smash Bros (if it even exists) to the tastes of the competitive community here. Which would take around...10 years?

By then, even if the Earth isn't yet a desolate wasteland yet, we'll probably no longer care about competitive gaming, save for those among us who will have picked up the controller for a living and begun paying the bills with tournament wins. The rest of us might be too busy with families/relationships/jobs/living in our mother's basement to play games, except for unwinding at the end of a long crappy workday or with our kids (admit it, you WANT to teach little Billy how to own with Jigglypuff), to care about competitive gaming. So you've basically just doomed Smash to some Melee tournaments, some people farting around with Brawl, and a crappy sequel that nobody buys. Ouch.

@RDK: This perception - that all the "cool kids" hate Brawl - has some basis in fact. From what I've observed, most of the people here who prefer Melee have been around for a while, have experienced competitive Melee and grown to love it, and are generally pretty intelligent and reasonable people, aside frm sometimes being TOO snarky about Brawl ("I'm insulted people play Brawl when Melee exists" anyone?). Whereas the folks who prefer Brawl are, as a rule, generally...full of crap. They back up their arguments with crazy BS like "Sakurai does not have a Kirby bias", "Brawl is more balanced", or "Wavedashing is a glitch".

So when you see smart people holding one opinion, and idiots holding the opposing viewpoint, who are you going to agree with?

 

[Pink Reaper]

@RDK: See, I still have a little problem because I (and this is a matter of personal philosophy) assume that everyone is decent until proven otherwise.

Because people are, at a base level, idiots.

 

[Jack Kieser]

There's a difference between decency and intelligence, you know. People can have good intentions and still be morons. And I can't see that picture, so nah nah nah nah.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^If you post like a moron on the boards then you are displaying indecent behavior. Results are more important than intentions.

It's true that giving 08ers (that's actually the first time I've typed that phrase) the benifit of the doubt wouldn't hurt, but for the sake of just not working so hard it's easier to just assume they are idiots until their posts prove otherwise. Because sadly the majority of them are, and it's actually rare to find someone new who posts intelligently.

The guilty until proven innocent mentality isn't ideal, but it's much less taxing, and in this case not to detrimental. Now if there's money or consequences involved, then it's definitely innocent until proven guilty, but we're just talking about social status here.

 

[RDK]

@RDK: See, I still have a little problem because I (and this is a matter of personal philosophy) assume that everyone is decent until proven otherwise. I don't like that 'guilty until proven innocent' mentality that like 90% of the boards have towards '08 players. I know full well that I was in their shoes once, and so I'm not about to belittle someone for an inevitability; it's like *****ing at a worker 'cause he didn't have the good sense to start out as a CEO. Most people lurk at least through one thread before even signing up for the site, much less posting. If they see this mentality of ours (well, not mine) shining through before they even post, of course they're going to post stupidly. They'll want to prove to you that they aren't just another '08 poster, inevitably dooming themselves to Yuna-**** in the process.

I'm sure if people didn't feel like they had something to prove right off the bat, they'd be a little more open to help, and that just doesn't happen with a 'guilty until proven innocent' mentality.

I'm just speaking from personal experience. It's easy to spot someone who knows what they're talking about from the writhing mass of idiocy that now occupies the GBD. Like I said--if you give us a reason to respect you, consider it earned.

And notice how being "right" wasn't in my criteria for earning respect. I don't care so much about whether or not your viewpoint is in line with mine, because, for all intents and purposes, that can be fixed later. What I do care about is that you're not an arrogant prick who believes what he believes just because, and has grammar abilities comparable to that of a 3rd-grade dropout.

@RDK: This perception - that all the "cool kids" hate Brawl - has some basis in fact. From what I've observed, most of the people here who prefer Melee have been around for a while, have experienced competitive Melee and grown to love it, and are generally pretty intelligent and reasonable people, aside frm sometimes being TOO snarky about Brawl ("I'm insulted people play Brawl when Melee exists" anyone?). Whereas the folks who prefer Brawl are, as a rule, generally...full of crap. They back up their arguments with crazy BS like "Sakurai does not have a Kirby bias", "Brawl is more balanced", or "Wavedashing is a glitch".

So when you see smart people holding one opinion, and idiots holding the opposing viewpoint, who are you going to agree with?

Just to throw it out there, I don't agree with people because they're intelligent. I agree with people because their argument is correct and is founded in reason. Having a good opinion or argument is just usually a byproduct of being intelligent, although unfortunately sometimes it's not.

 

[MarKO X]

Well, from the point of view of a once ignorant now partially-knowledgable 08er, most of us 08ers do come in here ignorant. But ignorance and stupidity are two different things, with ignorance being a lack of knowledge and stupidity being the inability to learn (or something close to it). The problem, however, is that the most ignorant 08ers aren't here for competitive Smash, meaning at least comp on a level of going to tourneys with more than their inner circle of friends. (Personally, I came here to learn Sonic, because there's no way in hell you can even compete with him without knowing certain info about him.) They present no meaningful info or feedback, try to challenge what's generally accepted with no grounds of backup, say that edgehogging is cheap, etc., and that's going to happen. I remember seeing this one sig about how M2K said that Mewtwo was the best character in the game when he was new here (02 was the year said statement was made), but now M2K is one of, if not, the best. That's not saying that everyone will be M2K, but everyone has the potential to learn, and what the 08er stereotype is at the base is that an 08er is unwilling to learn. To me, this has proven to go half and half... you have 08ers who came here with a base of info and after time has passed learned enough about to Smash to at least be competent, and then you have 08ers who come here with the same base of info and fail to learn completely. The latter of the 08ers are who give the rest of the 08ers a bad name.

Yuna-****

That phrase is too good.

 

[GofG]

Well, from the point of view of a once ignorant now partially-knowledgable 08er, most of us 08ers do come in here ignorant. But ignorance and stupidity are two different things, with ignorance being a lack of knowledge and stupidity being the inability to learn (or something close to it). The problem, however, is that the most ignorant 08ers aren't here for competitive Smash, meaning at least comp on a level of going to tourneys with more than their inner circle of friends. (Personally, I came here to learn Sonic, because there's no way in hell you can even compete with him without knowing certain info about him.) They present no meaningful info or feedback, try to challenge what's generally accepted with no grounds of backup, say that edgehogging is cheap, etc., and that's going to happen. I remember seeing this one sig about how M2K said that Mewtwo was the best character in the game when he was new here (02 was the year said statement was made), but now M2K is one of, if not, the best. That's not saying that everyone will be M2K, but everyone has the potential to learn, and what the 08er stereotype is at the base is that an 08er is unwilling to learn. To me, this has proven to go half and half... you have 08ers who came here with a base of info and after time has passed learned enough about to Smash to at least be competent, and then you have 08ers who come here with the same base of info and fail to learn completely. The latter of the 08ers are who give the rest of the 08ers a bad name.

Tu respicio.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

Iron Thorn-
I was not saying play melee or pray to whatever God or gods you believe in for a new SSB game. Just saying the effect brawl has had on me.

You can have your opinions of me if you wish and my views.

Just for me brawl killed my melee and SSB spirit in general. Just a fair warning games will become easier and soon they will be shorter and then they will collapse. Just what I think will happen in about 4 years.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Question. If it's alright for you to hate Brawl, why is it unacceptable to hate Melee? You seem to treat preferring Brawl as thought it were a defect of character.

Melee players have given their reasons for disliking Brawl multiple times. Brawl players have not given a reason why they dislike said game, and the few that do merely cling to stereotypes as their main argument. I would love to see a Brawl supporter say they like Brawl more than Melee without the "Cuz I say so" attitude, or the half ***** "Melee 2.0" debate.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^That's really all I'm looking for when I debate against people. Legitimate reasons that they prefer brawl and not "because it's different than melee."

What different aspects do you prefer? Why do you prefer them? What do you like most? What would you change? ect.

 

[flyinfilipino]

If it just boils down to personal preference, what's the point of the debate?