I never said you couldn't disagree with me. By all means, please do so. I did say don't come in here and talk about Brawl being better because of ____ aesthetic. The opinion that Brawl has better graphics or more extra features has absolutely nothing to do with why it's better competitively. Please tell me that.
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Sakurai does not want Smash to be a competitive franchise
- Thread starter Gimpyfish62
- Start date
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
That's fine. No amount of complaining would have affected anything.
If people stopped playing Smash, it wouldn't be a big deal.
Jack Kieser
Smash Champion
RDK, I'd respond to you now, but I have a class to go to. I will say this, though. I KNOW that SSE has nothing to do with competition. You know that I knew that. I knew that you'd ***** about that as a way to try to invalidate the analogy. The point is, that can work with ANYTHING. Mardyke (and plenty others) doesn't CARE about the speed of the game, so, for instance, belittling him or anyone else for liking a slower game WHEN SPEED IS NOT AN ISSUE FOR THEM, regardless of how much of an issue it is for YOU, is dumb.
I'll actually point by point show you all of your verbal johns when I get back from class, if this thread hasn't moved too much by then.
I'll actually point by point show you all of your verbal johns when I get back from class, if this thread hasn't moved too much by then.
I'll wait until you gather your full argument before responding then.
Reaper Zed
Smash Rookie
Alright, first off, hi, I'm new to the forums. Don't let that prevent you from ripping into me when you read something you disagree with. 
Anyways, here goes my opinion. I may be new to the forums, but by no means am I new to the Smash "scene".
I also apologize if I reiterate anything or am redundant at any point (the latter being almost impossible to avoid at this point, with 121+ pages of discussion already in existence).
First off, yes, I prefer melee over brawl. Unlike most avid melee supporters though, I do not think brawl "sucks" or was a complete disaster by any stretch of the imagination. I believe that Brawl was created for a different purpose (it may be obvious to some, but others, it isn't the case). Brawl was intended for a more casual audience. Yes, INTENDED. The arguments that arise from Brawl vs. Melee come from people who have differing beliefs on what Brawl was trying to accomplish, in terms of what the creator wanted. Some are convinced that Brawl was intended to be a competitive game, and refuse to think otherwise. Others see it as something that was purely supposed to be enjoyed with no hard feelings (I think I read something like that earlier, I can't recall). Some people are venting frustration because Brawl did not continue with what made Melee so enjoyable to them and others. Some praise Brawl for doing away with such "glitches" as wave dashing, wave shining, and other unintentional advanced techniques. Personally, I thought the aforementioned added to the depth of the game, as these "glitches" (which were usable by anyone) allowed you and me to become more creative in ways to **** our opponents. In short, everyone had different hopes of what the game would be, and obviously, the game couldn't appeal to everyone's hopes. Take it as it is, which is, in my personal views, a game that was meant to be played and enjoyed by anyone.
Ultimately, I will continue to play melee because I enjoy it that much more than Brawl. I enjoy the competitive aspect, I enjoy handing people their ***** (or getting my *** kicked around, then I need to fix my strategies or improve on my overall game). I enjoy that competitive aspect. Not EVERYONE enjoys the competitive aspect, Sakurai decided to try and sell the game to the non-competitive audience. The community, seeing where Melee went, wants to make Brawl a competitive game. Do I believe Brawl was suited for competitive play? The game engine suggests the contrary to me. Does that mean I'm correct in thinking Brawl is non-competitive? The community can easily prove me 100% wrong. If they enjoy playing competitive Brawl, I doubt there's much I can say to convince you otherwise. In my opinion though, the new game engine seems to support a less steep learning curve and a less competitive mindset. However, this point, as the last 121 pages of arguments have obviously proved, is easily debatable.
Anyways, here goes my opinion. I may be new to the forums, but by no means am I new to the Smash "scene".
I also apologize if I reiterate anything or am redundant at any point (the latter being almost impossible to avoid at this point, with 121+ pages of discussion already in existence).
First off, yes, I prefer melee over brawl. Unlike most avid melee supporters though, I do not think brawl "sucks" or was a complete disaster by any stretch of the imagination. I believe that Brawl was created for a different purpose (it may be obvious to some, but others, it isn't the case). Brawl was intended for a more casual audience. Yes, INTENDED. The arguments that arise from Brawl vs. Melee come from people who have differing beliefs on what Brawl was trying to accomplish, in terms of what the creator wanted. Some are convinced that Brawl was intended to be a competitive game, and refuse to think otherwise. Others see it as something that was purely supposed to be enjoyed with no hard feelings (I think I read something like that earlier, I can't recall). Some people are venting frustration because Brawl did not continue with what made Melee so enjoyable to them and others. Some praise Brawl for doing away with such "glitches" as wave dashing, wave shining, and other unintentional advanced techniques. Personally, I thought the aforementioned added to the depth of the game, as these "glitches" (which were usable by anyone) allowed you and me to become more creative in ways to **** our opponents. In short, everyone had different hopes of what the game would be, and obviously, the game couldn't appeal to everyone's hopes. Take it as it is, which is, in my personal views, a game that was meant to be played and enjoyed by anyone.
Ultimately, I will continue to play melee because I enjoy it that much more than Brawl. I enjoy the competitive aspect, I enjoy handing people their ***** (or getting my *** kicked around, then I need to fix my strategies or improve on my overall game). I enjoy that competitive aspect. Not EVERYONE enjoys the competitive aspect, Sakurai decided to try and sell the game to the non-competitive audience. The community, seeing where Melee went, wants to make Brawl a competitive game. Do I believe Brawl was suited for competitive play? The game engine suggests the contrary to me. Does that mean I'm correct in thinking Brawl is non-competitive? The community can easily prove me 100% wrong. If they enjoy playing competitive Brawl, I doubt there's much I can say to convince you otherwise. In my opinion though, the new game engine seems to support a less steep learning curve and a less competitive mindset. However, this point, as the last 121 pages of arguments have obviously proved, is easily debatable.
Justblaze647
Smash Lord
Yeah... this thread is pointless...
Sakurai is not the Smash Community...
Melee wasn't meant to be competitive... but what happened?
The Community will make Smash whatever we want it to be...
Thus... pointless
Sakurai is not the Smash Community...
Melee wasn't meant to be competitive... but what happened?
The Community will make Smash whatever we want it to be...
Thus... pointless
MarKO X
Smash Champion
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The originall point of the thread is llong gone and destroyed...
But the more they debate, the more I llearn.
Shhhhhhh... llet them go. Besides, don't you spectators think this is hillarious and informative at the same time? Or you don't read Great Wall of Text after you've been away from SWF for a few hours?
I say keep going. Informative entertainment is hard to come by in this day and age.
But the more they debate, the more I llearn.
Shhhhhhh... llet them go. Besides, don't you spectators think this is hillarious and informative at the same time? Or you don't read Great Wall of Text after you've been away from SWF for a few hours?
I say keep going. Informative entertainment is hard to come by in this day and age.
Fletch
Smash Master
This is how first posts should be conducted. Good ****.Alright, first off, hi, I'm new to the forums. Don't let that prevent you from ripping into me when you read something you disagree with.
Anyways, here goes my opinion. I may be new to the forums, but by no means am I new to the Smash "scene".
I also apologize if I reiterate anything or am redundant at any point (the latter being almost impossible to avoid at this point, with 121+ pages of discussion already in existence).
First off, yes, I prefer melee over brawl. Unlike most avid melee supporters though, I do not think brawl "sucks" or was a complete disaster by any stretch of the imagination. I believe that Brawl was created for a different purpose (it may be obvious to some, but others, it isn't the case). Brawl was intended for a more casual audience. Yes, INTENDED. The arguments that arise from Brawl vs. Melee come from people who have differing beliefs on what Brawl was trying to accomplish, in terms of what the creator wanted. Some are convinced that Brawl was intended to be a competitive game, and refuse to think otherwise. Others see it as something that was purely supposed to be enjoyed with no hard feelings (I think I read something like that earlier, I can't recall). Some people are venting frustration because Brawl did not continue with what made Melee so enjoyable to them and others. Some praise Brawl for doing away with such "glitches" as wave dashing, wave shining, and other unintentional advanced techniques. Personally, I thought the aforementioned added to the depth of the game, as these "glitches" (which were usable by anyone) allowed you and me to become more creative in ways to **** our opponents. In short, everyone had different hopes of what the game would be, and obviously, the game couldn't appeal to everyone's hopes. Take it as it is, which is, in my personal views, a game that was meant to be played and enjoyed by anyone.
Ultimately, I will continue to play melee because I enjoy it that much more than Brawl. I enjoy the competitive aspect, I enjoy handing people their ***** (or getting my *** kicked around, then I need to fix my strategies or improve on my overall game). I enjoy that competitive aspect. Not EVERYONE enjoys the competitive aspect, Sakurai decided to try and sell the game to the non-competitive audience. The community, seeing where Melee went, wants to make Brawl a competitive game. Do I believe Brawl was suited for competitive play? The game engine suggests the contrary to me. Does that mean I'm correct in thinking Brawl is non-competitive? The community can easily prove me 100% wrong. If they enjoy playing competitive Brawl, I doubt there's much I can say to convince you otherwise. In my opinion though, the new game engine seems to support a less steep learning curve and a less competitive mindset. However, this point, as the last 121 pages of arguments have obviously proved, is easily debatable.
cjrocker
Smash Ace
I love a goodass debate.
BrawlLover
Smash Champion
All I have to say is that I LOVE BRAWL! It really doesn't suck guys!!
cjrocker
Smash Ace
I could have guessed as much from your name.
You probably shouldn't post in this topic again.
Lord Viper
SS Rank
This.
Competitive can be created by anyting now days.
GofG
Smash Champion
I'm surprised Jack Keiser's class is not over. It's been almost a day.
Greenstreet
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2008
- Messages
- 2,965
ur a Llama lover arent u?
BrawlLover
Smash Champion
but seriously guys, brawl is fun, if not, why would so many people play it, i can care less about the competitiveness of it really!, i bet you've played it and deep inside, you know it's fun : )
PassWurD
Smash Journeyman
Elaborate to me why you would join a competitive site for SBB series, if you don't care about the competitiveness of it...
BrawlLover
Smash Champion
huh??????? how is this a competitive site? i think you have been mislead greatly my friend!
PassWurD
Smash Journeyman
Correction, the Brawl part of the Smashboards isn't competitive, we were doing quite fine on the Melee boards.
Eternal phoenix Fire
Smash Hero
If you don't care for the competitive nature of the game them why would you post this in a debate topic? How can you simply dictate what another person likes simply because it's based on your broad opinion? Don't talk in definates based on your own definition of 'Fun'.
How I feel deep inside? I feel that i'm trying to get into the competitive nature of the game, but nothing is happening. At this point, i've given up hope for this game to become the 'balanced' and 'equal' fighter that Sakurai promised us. Instead, we get a unbalanced Party game with fighting aesthetics.
At he same time, people who disagree with others opinions constantly bare fangs at each other. Not only that, but it separated our great community into two powers. This whole Brawl vs Melee debate is like the freakin' Berlin wall.
To sum it up; I dislike the game. Not only for it's imbalances, but what it has done to our community, and all the things we have strived for just to fall folly to an anti-competitive bigot. (I.E. Sakurai, who had developed this game incompetently on all levels)
Also, I suggest that you not post here anymore considering that you're just going to start more crap.
BrawlLover
Smash Champion
um...ok? that's why i joined...i didn't expect it to be a 'competitive' scene, i merely checked around and try to see what the other parts of this forum has to offer
BrawlLover
Smash Champion
to eternal
i am not here to do battle with anyone! i dont even know the community you talk as if you are in like some online family, maybe i don't know, im just here cause i love brawl, i didn't say i hate melee, jeeze laweeze
i am not here to do battle with anyone! i dont even know the community you talk as if you are in like some online family, maybe i don't know, im just here cause i love brawl, i didn't say i hate melee, jeeze laweeze
PassWurD
Smash Journeyman
It's cause' we sorta are an online family, cause' Melee didn't evolve on Online, so everyone would meet each other, at tournaments, and people's house's, becoming friends ect...
PS. I think
Eternal phoenix Fire
Smash Hero
Well, then don't post in the thread. And furthermore, I didn't mention anything about Brawl/Melee superiority/Inferiority. Don't assume that i'm attacking you for that.
I've been in this community for a while. I've gone to tournaments and made friends. While a majority of this is an online community, to some, it's represents an actual community where people can get in contact with each other.
But by all means enjoy your stay. It's just that it caters to the competitive elements of the game.
EDIT: PassWurD is exactly correct.
NES n00b
Smash Master
Really? I thought the whole point was to talk about how one game is a superior game without playing either game for any extended period of time and eating cool ranch doritos while typing.
I have alot to learn.
Eternal phoenix Fire
Smash Hero
Yes, you do.
But eating Cool Ranch Doritos are important too. Personally, I prefer Spicy Nacho. Cool Ranch is for noobs because everyone eats them (tier whores)
Freakin scrub...
Sorry, but I find this too hard to believe. It's not okay with you if I disagree.
I just flat-out explained what *I* - not you, I - liked more in Brawl than I did in Melee, and you choose to insult my intelligence (which you do by insulting my stance). That's not respecting someone's differences at all. You can think I'm wrong, that's fine, but it's not fine if you consider them personally inferior because they differ with you. It doesn't matter if you feel that you know the game better than me or are better than me, it doesn't change the fact that, when it comes down to the gameplay, I liked Brawl more and you expressed - in all ways but indirectly - that you couldn't deal with that.Your response after I explained why I preferred Brawl's gameplay to Melee said:
So it seems that I can disagree with you, but only at the risk of my life. I don't want to generate hostility, but at the same time I won't be quiet if you feel comfortable with putting people down so complacently.
The phrasing of the question implied we were talking about the full aspects of the game in general, in which case Brawl carries significantly more weight than it did before. Had it been specified competitively and exclusively that, I'd have just answered that. But it implied that Brawl players had no reason to prefer Melee overall; sorry I didn't cater to your desire immediately before anything else.
Thanks for having a nice reasonable first post.Alright, first off, hi, I'm new to the forums. Don't let that prevent you from ripping into me when you read something you disagree with.
Anyways, here goes my opinion. I may be new to the forums, but by no means am I new to the Smash "scene".
I also apologize if I reiterate anything or am redundant at any point (the latter being almost impossible to avoid at this point, with 121+ pages of discussion already in existence).
First off, yes, I prefer melee over brawl. Unlike most avid melee supporters though, I do not think brawl "sucks" or was a complete disaster by any stretch of the imagination. I believe that Brawl was created for a different purpose (it may be obvious to some, but others, it isn't the case). Brawl was intended for a more casual audience. Yes, INTENDED. The arguments that arise from Brawl vs. Melee come from people who have differing beliefs on what Brawl was trying to accomplish, in terms of what the creator wanted. Some are convinced that Brawl was intended to be a competitive game, and refuse to think otherwise. Others see it as something that was purely supposed to be enjoyed with no hard feelings (I think I read something like that earlier, I can't recall). Some people are venting frustration because Brawl did not continue with what made Melee so enjoyable to them and others. Some praise Brawl for doing away with such "glitches" as wave dashing, wave shining, and other unintentional advanced techniques. Personally, I thought the aforementioned added to the depth of the game, as these "glitches" (which were usable by anyone) allowed you and me to become more creative in ways to **** our opponents. In short, everyone had different hopes of what the game would be, and obviously, the game couldn't appeal to everyone's hopes. Take it as it is, which is, in my personal views, a game that was meant to be played and enjoyed by anyone.
Ultimately, I will continue to play melee because I enjoy it that much more than Brawl. I enjoy the competitive aspect, I enjoy handing people their ***** (or getting my *** kicked around, then I need to fix my strategies or improve on my overall game). I enjoy that competitive aspect. Not EVERYONE enjoys the competitive aspect, Sakurai decided to try and sell the game to the non-competitive audience. The community, seeing where Melee went, wants to make Brawl a competitive game. Do I believe Brawl was suited for competitive play? The game engine suggests the contrary to me. Does that mean I'm correct in thinking Brawl is non-competitive? The community can easily prove me 100% wrong. If they enjoy playing competitive Brawl, I doubt there's much I can say to convince you otherwise. In my opinion though, the new game engine seems to support a less steep learning curve and a less competitive mindset. However, this point, as the last 121 pages of arguments have obviously proved, is easily debatable.
We need more of these.Iron Thorn
Smash Lord
Funny how those two guys with the same Mario avatar got the piss taken out of them, whereas nobody said a word to me. I feel not special now.
Jack Kieser
Smash Champion
Ah, the boards are finally back up. Thank god. I almost wasn't sure what to do with my life. 
Eternal phoenix Fire
Smash Hero
Go outside.Ah, the boards are finally back up. Thank god. I almost wasn't sure what to do with my life.
XD
Iron Thorn
Smash Lord
Ironic thing is that yesterday I walked my dog BEFORE I found out about sys maintenance.
theshortgamer
Smash Cadet
I would be happy if they just removed tripping from brawl. My game experience would improve dramatically, the amount of kills I miss because of it, is ridiculous.
BrawlLover
Smash Champion
how about you shut up before i report you!, both of you!
Eternal phoenix Fire
Smash Hero
Report them for what?
Talking about your avatar and laughing at your stupidity?
Getting net *****?
It might be the same person. Maybe he was tired of bomarded with reason so he created another profile to fool the dirty competitives. Only problem was, he wasn't smart enough to pick a new avatar.
And BTW, Greenstreak, this quote is gold:
And BTW, Greenstreak, this quote is gold:
I literally laughed out loud. GG
Jack Kieser
Smash Champion
Oh my god, that quotation is amazing.
Sure it is. What's not okay with me is when people ignore logic and don't employ common sense in their arguments.
I wasn't referring to your personal preferences at all. When I did attack your intelligence, it was because you said nonsensical and, frankly, noobish things about Brawl being just as competitively-centered as Melee.
I won't attack you because you disagree with me on something founded in compelete opinion. I will, however, get annoyed when you don't employ logic where logic is needed.
I put people down because said people are being idiots.
I've stated in just about every post I've made in the past 5 pages that the question was in regards to the competitive merit of the game, not the aesthetics. I can go back and quote myself if you wish. Learn to read.
Both you and Kieser kept talking about opinions on Brawl, when, from the start of this discussion, I was talking about it's competitive nature. And you have the balls to berate me for being off-topic? WTF
Eternal phoenix Fire
Smash Hero
I can't believe I overlooked that quote.
Amazing.
Amazing.
Jack Kieser
Smash Champion
I'll say this; the misunderstanding RDK and I had previously was because I (erroniously) chose to use analogies including non-competitive aspects of the games, and the fact that the analogies had these no-competitive things in them (like SSE, for instance) clouded RDK's ability to see the meaning behind the analogy. So that was (partially) my bad. Part of why I did that, though, was because I recognize that there isn't anything that Brawl has (competitively) that Melee doesn't have. You can't build an analogy in which there is a single aspect of Brawl's game that's 'better' than Melee's (not that I ever felt you needed to; again, I'm the one advocating that sometimes people purposefully look for inferiority).
I did, however, find an analogy that might better explain to you why someone would choose Brawl over Melee.
I was watching my roomate Slingblade (he's a lurker here) play 'Avalancha' on GH3 last night. Slingblade can play real guitar, and do so well. He can actually play most of the songs in GH3 on a real guitar, but he regularly chooses to play GH instead of play real guitar. Why would someone restrict himself to 5 buttons and a stum bar when he could easily choose tons of frets on 6 strings with harmonics, bends, slides, whammy, etc.? Simply because sometimes he's looking for that watered down version. Sometimes, the simpler aspects of GH are just more appealing and more fun than all the complicatedness of playing real guitar.
So, maybe people choose to play Brawl (knowing FULL WELL that Melee is a more technical, etc. game) because that is the experience they are looking for. Now the question I'd like to postulate is this: is this wrong to do, and does that make people lesser for doing so?
I did, however, find an analogy that might better explain to you why someone would choose Brawl over Melee.
I was watching my roomate Slingblade (he's a lurker here) play 'Avalancha' on GH3 last night. Slingblade can play real guitar, and do so well. He can actually play most of the songs in GH3 on a real guitar, but he regularly chooses to play GH instead of play real guitar. Why would someone restrict himself to 5 buttons and a stum bar when he could easily choose tons of frets on 6 strings with harmonics, bends, slides, whammy, etc.? Simply because sometimes he's looking for that watered down version. Sometimes, the simpler aspects of GH are just more appealing and more fun than all the complicatedness of playing real guitar.
So, maybe people choose to play Brawl (knowing FULL WELL that Melee is a more technical, etc. game) because that is the experience they are looking for. Now the question I'd like to postulate is this: is this wrong to do, and does that make people lesser for doing so?