Sakurai does not want Smash to be a competitive franchise

[metaXzero]

NO, he's already ashamed of us, that's why he made Brawl.

I'm surprised this was never posted earlier. WIN!

 

[Marios My Bro]

Overall its up to him what he makes. He should go by popular demand but who knows what he will do

 

[Mardyke]

Personally, I think that Sakurai made Brawl so different (or dumbed down if you prefer) from Melee for a reason other than a "I hate competitive players gargahagahagahagh" attitude - to make it different.

I consider Brawl a true sequel in that it follows up on the game that preceded it, but doesn't necessarily replace it. Think about it, how many of us who liked Galaxy would have liked it so much if they basically took Super Mario 64 and made it flashier? Instead that game is on a different level both mechanically and atmospherically that the two can't be compared in anything other than legacy.
It's something that bugged me ever since I finished Halo 3 and tried playing through it again but couldn't find the motivation to do so, yet could play through the original Halo so often (and still could). To me, the two felt very similar. There were a few changes but they were still minor. We'll probably always have both, and I don't see how that can do anything other than appease both crowds.

I don't really think Sakurai was trying to replace Melee - heck, there was talk of just putting Melee up with an online ability - so much as make a new Super Smash Bros. From the dedication of most hardcore Melee players here, I find it hard to imagine Melee disappearing. Yet at the same time everyone who's favouring Brawl has to have a better reason for playing it rather than Melee other than "The novelty's not dead yet", people aren't that stupid - I know I honestly prefer Brawl as a game over Melee.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Personally, I think that Sakurai made Brawl so different (or dumbed down if you prefer) from Melee for a reason other than a "I hate competitive players gargahagahagahagh" attitude - to make it different.

Except for the part where he said he doesn't enjoy competition and how hardcore players put too much emphasis on winning. And the part where he put in tripping as "a system of accidents to make the wins less predictable" (not exact quote but something very similar. I'll fish for the exact quote if you want). Oh, and the many times where he stated that he wanted this installment to be more geared towards the casual audiance, and easier to pick up and play with your friends.

Not lookin' good for Sakurai. The demo was plenty different and many of us were pleased with it (hell I'd pay $50 for that demo. Plus shipping charges for importing it). But then he took out dash dancing, reduced the hitstun, and took out L-canceling (yet left DDDs chaingrab even after we found it) and for what reason? To make the game easier (dumb it down)?

 

[LOL_Master]

If you can dream it, you can do it! Capture the dream.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Except for the part where he said he doesn't enjoy competition and how hardcore players put too much emphasis on winning. And the part where he put in tripping as "a system of accidents to make the wins less predictable" (not exact quote but something very similar. I'll fish for the exact quote if you want). Oh, and the many times where he stated that he wanted this installment to be more geared towards the casual audiance, and easier to pick up and play with your friends.

Not lookin' good for Sakurai. The demo was plenty different and many of us were pleased with it (hell I'd pay $50 for that demo. Plus shipping charges for importing it). But then he took out dash dancing, reduced the hitstun, and took out L-canceling (yet left DDDs chaingrab even after we found it) and for what reason? To make the game easier (dumb it down)?

You forgot the part where he delayed the game for said reason as well...

-_-

 

[RDK]

I just can't shake the idea that he literally put the E4All demo out there to see competitive players' reactions to the gameplay mechanics, and then changed them accordingly to make Brawl more "casual friendly". What an enormous douchebag.

 

[metaXzero]

Sakurai's an epic troll. Need I say more?

 

[MarKO X]

I just can't shake the idea that he literally put the E4All demo out there to see competitive players' reactions to the gameplay mechanics, and then changed them accordingly to make Brawl more "casual friendly". What an enormous douchebag.

10mindgames

 

[thumbswayup]

I just can't shake the idea that he literally put the E4All demo out there to see competitive players' reactions to the gameplay mechanics, and then changed them accordingly to make Brawl more "casual friendly". What an enormous douchebag.

I still can't believe this.

 

[Mardyke]

Except for the part where he said he doesn't enjoy competition and how hardcore players put too much emphasis on winning.

If you want to bring this back to the article, then lemme take this quote:

It’s not like I think that serious competition is not interesting. It’s good to have equals fighting intensely.

No offence bud, but hardcore gamers do put way too much emphasis on the winner. Playing on Warcraft III or other competitive games I'm usually playing against a pro, and while he is better than me I can't find it in myself to applaud him simply because he's being such an a****** about it and how naturally superior he is to me because he beat me in a game. In Brawl whenever I play and lose, I'm able to still feel good about it and commend the other guy for doing well. Guess which personality any person or gamer would prefer.

And the part where he put in tripping as "a system of accidents to make the wins less predictable" (not exact quote but something very similar. I'll fish for the exact quote if you want).

I'm honestly not bothered by tripping, despite having been the victim of it. A trip has never ruined the momentum of the game, it was just the "Dearie me!" wild card factor that broke the tension in a fight.
The negativity towards the game almost entirely focused on tripping comes across as hypercritical, (yes I'm well aware I have everyone fuming at me now). It's like when the health inspector comes in to inspect your office, and everything from the paperwork to the furniture and plant is in perfect order. Then he bends down to that miniature hula-girl toy by your desk and spots a tiny stain of coffee, for which he immediately fails you and has you fired.

Oh, and the many times where he stated that he wanted this installment to be more geared towards the casual audiance, and easier to pick up and play with your friends.

That's been an obvious problem which has needed a genuine fix (in fact, it's still fairly evident in Brawl). SSB has been the complicated button-basher as opposed to the random button-basher in which (if you're new to it) you press things at random because you don't know how to play. I can't play Brawl with my friends simply because they don't have the game at home and I have a lot more experience than them, even though I'd love to take them on in a fair fight. I'd like them to feel the same kind of joy I get from Smash in the everyday brawl, without forcing them to memorise every single wavedash and Meta-Knight combo instead of memorising the equations for their maths test which they actually need to memorise.

At the worst, Brawl's professional circuit isn't as closed as Melee. Not necessarily worse, but it means that more people (casual or no) can join in on the game, meaning that the pro-pros don't get to circlejerk as much as they used to.

Which means it's the end of the world, of course.

 

[TheAceOfSmash]

Not created for the competitive players? When Smash Bros. first came out, There weren't people who "began" playing it competitively. That is something that happened later. I guess it's something Sakurai didn't anticipate. Nintendo is known for making games according to their own beliefs rather than completely fulfilling customers' requests, but... sometimes I think they're being selfish. But I do understand where he's coming from.

One thing I must disagree on, however, is his viewpoint on competition. It's too simple.

 

[Dark Sonic]

No offence bud, but hardcore gamers do put way too much emphasis on the winner.

So it's bad to try to get good at something? Maybe the hardcore gamers are different in that we find competition fun?!?!?. Or how about the idea that winning should be the reward for us actually putting in time to be good at something.

Playing on Warcraft III or other competitive games I'm usually playing against a pro, and while he is better than me I can't find it in myself to applaud him simply because he's being such an a****** about it and how naturally superior he is to me because he beat me in a game.

Of course he's being a douchebag, it's the ****ing internet and you will always run into a million of them because people can hide behind the anonymousness of the internet.

BTW, the majority of times you're playing against someone who actually isn't a pro, considering the pros are few and far between (that's what makes them pros.

In Brawl whenever I play and lose, I'm able to still feel good about it and commend the other guy for doing well. Guess which personality any person or gamer would prefer.

People do that in melee too! As long as the winner isn't a cocky jerk (which most of them aren't) then they are commended for having superior skill.

I'm honestly not bothered by tripping, despite having been the victim of it. A trip has never ruined the momentum of the game, it was just the "Dearie me!" wild card factor that broke the tension in a fight.

Broke the tension in a fight=ruined the momentum of the game. We make that tension on purpose in order to make the opponent make a mistake, and then capitalize on it. Tripping is just a needless addition that really has zero benifits for competitive play, but plenty of isolated negative effects.

The negativity towards the game almost entirely focused on tripping comes across as hypercritical, (yes I'm well aware I have everyone fuming at me now).

Tripping cannot help competitive play in any way shape or form. It's true that on average tripping has a minimal effect, but the problem is not tripping itself, but rather the fact that Sakurai even included it in the first place. It's like giving hardcore gamers a giant middle finger for no reason.

It's like when the health inspector comes in to inspect your office, and everything from the paperwork to the furniture and plant is in perfect order. Then he bends down to that miniature hula-girl toy by your desk and spots a tiny stain of coffee, for which he immediately fails you and has you fired.

It's more like when the health inspector comes to inspect your office, everything is perfect, and then he personally sees you pick your nose and wipe it on you desk. It is indeed a very small problem, but the principle behind it is a much larger offense.

That's been an obvious problem which has needed a genuine fix (in fact, it's still fairly evident in Brawl). SSB has been the complicated button-basher as opposed to the random button-basher in which (if you're new to it) you press things at random because you don't know how to play.

People do that in melee all the time. Go to hyrule temple, or big blue, venom, ect. If two people that don't know how to play are fighting each other, then there really is no problem.

I can't play Brawl with my friends simply because they don't have the game at home and I have a lot more experience than them, even though I'd love to take them on in a fair fight.

P.C Chris didn't have melee for a long time (I'm not sure if he ever got it actually).

I'd like them to feel the same kind of joy I get from Smash in the everyday brawl, without forcing them to memorise every single wavedash and Meta-Knight combo instead of memorising the equations for their maths test which they actually need to memorise.

First of all, wavedashing takes like 10 minutes to learn with one character. Studying for a math test could take a couple of hours. If they can find time in there schedule to come play with you, they can also find time to learn a two button manuver.

Also, Smash has one of the loosest combo systems out there. DI messes with a lot of combos, and you really have to be not only paying attention to your opponent's DI, but actually predicting it so that you can actually get them off the stage. Smash is one of the most leniant fighters out there...and you think it's too hard?!

Second, even if they don't want to learn, that just means that you will have an edge on them. You could also just play a character that you have no idea how to play (I tried playing Ness for the first time in melee and I freakin' sucked!)

At the worst, Brawl's professional circuit isn't as closed as Melee. Not necessarily worse, but it means that more people (casual or no) can join in on the game, meaning that the pro-pros don't get to circlejerk as much as they used to.

Quality>Quantity. I honestly couldn't care less about how many people actually play proffesionally. I only care about how good they are, and how dedicated they are to the game. If a tournament has 2000 entrants, but 1980 of them are complete n00bs with cocky additudes who think that they're going to destroy everyone at the first tournament that they ever went to, then it's a failure of a tournament in my eyes. I would honestly prefer to have those 20 dedicated players play in a seprate tournament, just because it would not only be quicker and allow more time for friendlies, but because I wouldn't have to listen to all the scrubs complain about how they lost to someone who spammed some "unbeatable strategy." They'd complain about that strategy even if that very same person lost their next match.

Which means it's the end of the world, of course.

Maybe people just like being rewarded for their work? Maybe we don't like Sakurai because he took a big wet bite out of our rewards and handed it over to people who sat on their ***** and didn't do ****? Maybe us competitive players don't like him because he specifically stated that he does not like us and made the game while trying to spite us?

It really isn't hard to appeas us while still making a great casual friendly game. Of course it's going to be hard to enter competitions, as competitions are generally for the people that actually...practice? You can still play your party game with your friends, but I would kinda like it if I could play my hardcore fighter with my friends too! You know, with combos, cool techs that litterally make the game faster or make moves safer, other cool techs that slow my opponent down and make his moves less safe, things that make my combos longer, things that help me escape my opponent's combos, ect. You know, areas to improve in that will give me a tangible reward. The thing is...we already had that. The demo had this new form of L-canceling (you have to fast fall before doing the aerial), that had obvious pros but possible cons this time (it's harder to space aerials when you have to fast fall before doing them, ect.) Each character had great combo potential (except Ike, who was just terrible). Dash dancing and pivoting would be the new replacements for wavedashing, and we all loved the new airdodging system (because at the time you couldn't just airdodge out of combos, as you'd be in hitstun. But now it was safe to use airdodging to avoid the combo starter). Auto sweetspotting wasn't that good, and we didn't know what caused tripping at the time (we didn't know that it was completely random, and that you couldn't tech it), but many genuinely liked the game. When Sakurai took all that stuff out, right after all of our positive feedback on it, he was basically hustling us.

 

[PassWurD]

World of Warcraft is a competitive game?

Warcraft 3 Dark Sonic, not World of Warcraft

Warcraft 3: The RTS

World of Warcraft: The MMORPG

 

[HeroMystic]

The funny part is, Melee has tons of casual gamers out there during it's time, while there are certainly alot of pros too. There was a perfect balance.

When I think on it now, it's hard to understand why Sakurai didn't keep Brawl the way it was in the demo. There would -still- be that balance. Goes to show how much Sakurai is a selfish prick. Nintendo in general is starting to turn in that direction as well.

 

[Shred_kid]

@Dark Sonic. That pretty much hit the nail right on the head. QFT.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Warcraft 3 Dark Sonic, not World of Warcraft

Warcraft 3: The RTS

World of Warcraft: The MMORPG

My bad.

Edited post.

 

[PassWurD]

My bad.

Edited post.

Haha woot I helped!!

Being like half on topic, I totally agree with everything you said Dark Sonic.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Good ****, Dark Sonic.

*DECIDED TO JUMP ON THE BANDWAGON.*

Smooth Criminal

 

[TLMarth]

Maybe you could choose not to play with them? Maybe the person who is competitive could just play more casually? Maybe they shouldn't invite that guy?

Basically, you could apply that to any game and any sport. That doesn't make those games suck. Oh noes, Michael Jordan just showed up guys, he's going to pwn us in our casual b-ball match. Seriously now...

Besides, you cant avoid that anyways. Even in Brawl, if someone who is a tournament veteran they will still win most if not all of their matches if they were trying in a casual setting. There is still a skill gap. The thing is, when you cross that skill gap, you realize that the game sorta gets camp heavy and more shallow.

This problem is unavoidable, and by trying to address it, it only hurts the longevity of the game.

I'm not trying to contradict you Mookierah, but I do find that it's HARD to go back to 'noob mode' as in
Spam running attack
Spam projectiles
Charge smash attack Two Miles away from opponent

 

[metaXzero]

Old quote lol

 

[RDK]

The whole point of Sakurai dumbing down the game was to take the empasis off of actually playing the game to achieve a specific purpose (I.E, WINNING, which is pretty much what games are for, Sakurai, you ****ing ******) and putting the emphasis on "fun". The only problem was that his idea of fun isn't everyone's idea of fun.

No offence bud, but hardcore gamers do put way too much emphasis on the winner.

^ Statements like this are ******** for a plethora of reasons. It really is stupid to say to people who play the game to win that they put too much emphasis on winning.

Competitive gaming is all about seeing who is the best at something. If you have a group of casual friends that like to play solely "for kicks", why the hell would you invite a competitive player into your circle for friendlies (to cite Mookie's example)? You shouldn't have to dumb down your game to play with casuals.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Man, this thread got all depressing again. We spent so much time and effort making it good, and then you Negative Nancy's came in and screwed all that hard work up. Nice job, Nancy.

 

[RDK]

Man, this thread got all depressing again. We spent so much time and effort making it good, and then you Negative Nancy's came in and screwed all that hard work up. Nice job, Nancy.

I prefer Debbie Downer.

 

[Mardyke]

So it's bad to try to get good at something? Maybe the hardcore gamers are different in that we find competition fun?!?!?. Or how about the idea that winning should be the reward for us actually putting in time to be good at something.

Nobody ever said or suggested anything remotely close to that, certainly not me. A competitive and an intense fight against an evenly matched opponent is indeed a beautiful thing, (I tried Bowser out for the first time against my friend's Fox when I finally convinced him to play a no-items game, and it was one of the most intense things ever) but it's not who wins that makes it important. In fact, the mantle of victor is and should be considered completely irrelevant the moment the game begins, and that's what Sakurai is trying to say.

Of course he's being a douchebag, it's the ****ing internet and you will always run into a million of them because people can hide behind the anonymity of the internet.

Duh. Hence why it's best to remember that fun for both/all players is the objective of the game, that environment has the least douchebags. :D

People do that in melee too! As long as the winner isn't a cocky jerk (which most of them aren't) then they are commended for having superior skill.

I'll take your word for it.
Though I'll be honest and say that the impression that tends to be given by competitive players angry at Sakurai (especially the personal insults) had me relatively convinced that they weren't exactly social-loving.

Broke the tension in a fight=ruined the momentum of the game. We make that tension on purpose in order to make the opponent make a mistake, and then capitalize on it. Tripping is just a needless addition that really has zero benefits for competitive play, but plenty of isolated negative effects.

The tension actually is broken a lot in actual fights. I understand how this affects the mind game aspect of Brawl, but I don't think it's an insurmountable problem. If anything I thought it'd make some sort of addition to the mindgame aspect - what do you do if your opponent does trip?

but the problem is not tripping itself, but rather the fact that Sakurai even included it in the first place. It's like giving hardcore gamers a giant middle finger for no reason.

I'm tempted to believe that this was Sakurai's way of reminding the players that - no matter how tense the fight gets - it's just for fun. Though I do sympathise with your emotion there, tripping's a controversial factor. It's down to opinion in my belief, but I'm not sure if tripping is exactly going to endure the next game.

It's more like when the health inspector comes to inspect your office, everything is perfect, and then he personally sees you pick your nose and wipe it on you desk. It is indeed a very small problem, but the principle behind it is a much larger offense.[/quote] Potentially.

If two people that don't know how to play are fighting each other, then there really is no problem.

The problem is getting them to learn how to play.

First of all, wavedashing takes like 10 minutes to learn with one character. Studying for a math test could take a couple of hours. If they can find time in there schedule to come play with you, they can also find time to learn a two button manuver.

Also, Smash has one of the loosest combo systems out there. DI messes with a lot of combos, and you really have to be not only paying attention to your opponent's DI, but actually predicting it so that you can actually get them off the stage. Smash is one of the most leniant fighters out there...and you think it's too hard?!

I don't think it's too hard at all. But when you practice against one (or even three) level 9s on your own whenever you can't play against a pro, compared to a friend who isn't sure how best to pull off a Smash Attack, it defeats the purpose of it, doesn't it?

Second, even if they don't want to learn, that just means that you will have an edge on them.

And then they won't play.

You could also just play a character that you have no idea how to play (I tried playing Ness for the first time in melee and I freakin' sucked!)

I always hated Jigglypuff.

Quality>Quantity. I honestly couldn't care less about how many people actually play proffesionally. I only care about how good they are, and how dedicated they are to the game. If a tournament has 2000 entrants, but 1980 of them are complete n00bs with cocky additudes who think that they're going to destroy everyone at the first tournament that they ever went to, then it's a failure of a tournament in my eyes. I would honestly prefer to have those 20 dedicated players play in a seprate tournament, just because it would not only be quicker and allow more time for friendlies, but because I wouldn't have to listen to all the scrubs complain about how they lost to someone who spammed some "unbeatable strategy." They'd complain about that strategy even if that very same person lost their next match.

As you helped establish above, every multiplayer community has its *******s. There's a lot of dedication to the game already, and I'm pretty sure Brawl is already aiming to sell more than Melee - not all the new players we'll get who are interested in the tournament aspect are going to be great, but some of them can. Brawl's fighting is simplified in comparison to Melee, but not necessarily inferior. If Brawl continues to be a success, then the tournament side is going to get bigger. And if it does, then a lot of people are going to want to join, yes. It helps to be nice to those that honestly want to learn and put the egotists who think they're the second coming in their place.

Maybe people just like being rewarded for their work? Maybe we don't like Sakurai because he took a big wet bite out of our rewards and handed it over to people who sat on their ***** and didn't do ****? Maybe us competitive players don't like him because he specifically stated that he does not like us and made the game while trying to spite us?

That part was intended as an earnest tongue-in-cheek joke.
Though again, I don't think that Sakurai dumbed down Brawl to spite the competitive side as much as he did to make it more open to the casual side. At worst, it's a consequence.

It really isn't hard to appease us while still making a great casual friendly game. Of course it's going to be hard to enter competitions, as competitions are generally for the people that actually...practice? You can still play your party game with your friends, but I would kinda like it if I could play my hardcore fighter with my friends too! You know, with combos, cool techs that litterally make the game faster or make moves safer, other cool techs that slow my opponent down and make his moves less safe, things that make my combos longer, things that help me escape my opponent's combos, ect. You know, areas to improve in that will give me a tangible reward. The thing is...we already had that. The demo had this new form of L-canceling (you have to fast fall before doing the aerial), that had obvious pros but possible cons this time (it's harder to space aerials when you have to fast fall before doing them, ect.) Each character had great combo potential (except Ike, who was just terrible). Dash dancing and pivoting would be the new replacements for wavedashing, and we all loved the new airdodging system (because at the time you couldn't just airdodge out of combos, as you'd be in hitstun. But now it was safe to use airdodging to avoid the combo starter). Auto sweetspotting wasn't that good, and we didn't know what caused tripping at the time (we didn't know that it was completely random, and that you couldn't tech it), but many genuinely liked the game. When Sakurai took all that stuff out, right after all of our positive feedback on it, he was basically hustling us.

Oh thanks a lot *******, you just had to put it that way. Now how am I supposed to disagree with you??

F*g.

EDIT:

^ Statements like this are ******** for a plethora of reasons. It really is stupid to say to people who play the game to win that they put too much emphasis on winning.

Not really, no. There's a difference between having winning as the objective and playing just to win. You gotta enjoy it, or else you become a fun-sucking zombie the size of a skyscraper. And not only will nobody want you for good company, you'll have the US Air Force all over your sluggish decaying carcass.

Competitive gaming is all about seeing who is the best at something. If you have a group of casual friends that like to play solely "for kicks", why the hell would you invite a competitive player into your circle for friendlies (to cite Mookie's example)? You shouldn't have to dumb down your game to play with casuals.

Because those casuals are my friends who are better than me in most everything else and I just so happen to like their company and want to show them something I like?

I also vouch for sticking with Negative Nancy.

 

[Testament27]

i used to disagree with gimpyfish on a lot of things, but after playing brawl for 6 months, ive come to realize he was right about everything

 

[Corigames]

No offence bud, but hardcore gamers do put way too much emphasis on the winner. Playing on Warcraft III or other competitive games I'm usually playing against a pro, and while he is better than me I can't find it in myself to applaud him simply because he's being such an a****** about it and how naturally superior he is to me because he beat me in a game. In Brawl whenever I play and lose, I'm able to still feel good about it and commend the other guy for doing well. Guess which personality any person or gamer would prefer.

So, because you play Warcraft with *** holes, it means all gamers are *** holes? I have never won or lost a tournament match without shaking my oponent's hand after the fight. If you or the people you are playing with can't do that, then it's not everyone else's fault now is it?

The negativity towards the game almost entirely focused on tripping comes across as hypercritical, (yes I'm well aware I have everyone fuming at me now). It's like when the health inspector comes in to inspect your office, and everything from the paperwork to the furniture and plant is in perfect order. Then he bends down to that miniature hula-girl toy by your desk and spots a tiny stain of coffee, for which he immediately fails you and has you fired.

That's a great analogy, except that it's not just one thing. The game was noticably slowed down, they removed techs to make it more casual, certain characters are way better than others, certain characters are way worse than others, it's harder to combo, chain grabs are ridiculous, camping is one of the best strategies, recovering is as easy as wanting to survive, AND tripping. Not to mention I probably forgot a bunch of things. So that health inspector would probably walk in to the place he gave an A last time and see holes in the wall, the carpet ripped up, ants on the desk, and Sakurai sitting at his desk on the phone going, "YOU WANT MIRRION DORRERS? NO! HERE BRAWR! HAR HAR HAR!"

That's been an obvious problem which has needed a genuine fix (in fact, it's still fairly evident in Brawl). SSB has been the complicated button-basher

I had to stop here.

 

[PassWurD]

The only thing ill ever thank Sakuri for, is the FREE money I will get after beating noobs.

 

[Ace55]

Maybe he meant that button bashing in smash will get you killed (by yourself). In other fighting games you might get your *ss whooped for button bashing, but you won't kill yourself directly.

 

[Corigames]

Thanks for the sig quote PassWurD

 

[RDK]

EDIT: Not really, no. There's a difference between having winning as the objective and playing just to win. You gotta enjoy it, or else you become a fun-sucking zombie the size of a skyscraper. And not only will nobody want you for good company, you'll have the US Air Force all over your sluggish decaying carcass.

Who the hell are you to decide for me what's fun and what's not fun? If I find ****** the hell out of my opponent and feeling good about my accomplishments after a match, then that's my perogative.

Given, you should at least try to be friendly to your opponent, even if they are a whiny n00b who complains about you being "cheap" after a match--but that's not every gamer. You're making a ridiculously big generalization when you say all competitives are *******s.

Because those casuals are my friends who are better than me in most everything else and I just so happen to like their company and want to show them something I like?

I also vouch for sticking with Negative Nancy.

You're not playing for the right reasons, then. Don't play for the sake of other people--play for yourself.

 

[Mardyke]

So, because you play Warcraft with *** holes, it means all gamers are *** holes? I have never won or lost a tournament match without shaking my oponent's hand after the fight. If you or the people you are playing with can't do that, then it's not everyone else's fault now is it?

You're taking the example a bit too literally. For every honest, respectful player who's actually going to make it into the tournament scene, there's usually at least five people (probably less talented by a mile) who fit into the analogy I gave. That's the kind of person that you're more likely to see from actually playing a game, and hence why it's best to have an environment to discourage that.

That's a great analogy, except that it's not just one thing. The game was noticably slowed down, they removed techs to make it more casual, certain characters are way better than others, certain characters are way worse than others, it's harder to combo, chain grabs are ridiculous, camping is one of the best strategies, recovering is as easy as wanting to survive, AND tripping. Not to mention I probably forgot a bunch of things. So that health inspector would probably walk in to the place he gave an A last time and see holes in the wall, the carpet ripped up, ants on the desk, and Sakurai sitting at his desk on the phone going, "YOU WANT MIRRION DORRERS? NO! HERE BRAWR! HAR HAR HAR!"

Except that list is almost entirely subjective to opinion. I'll agree with you on chain throws and Meta Knight, but the rest I honestly disagree with/don't consider a problem.

I had to stop here.

Sorry if I hadn't made myself obvious. It's a lot simpler than some fighting games in that there are fewer moves per characters and you don't have listed combo attacks, but also complicated in the sense that you always need to be doing something so that you're not open to attack. See what I mean?

Who the hell are you to decide for me what's fun and what's not fun? If I find ****** the hell out of my opponent and feeling good about my accomplishments after a match, then that's my perogative.

That's fine then. Just one question if I may: what if you lose?

Given, you should at least try to be friendly to your opponent, even if they are a whiny n00b who complains about you being "cheap" after a match--but that's not every gamer. You're making a ridiculously big generalization when you say all competitives are *******s.

I said they were? If I did, then sorry: but I think you probably know better than I do that that ugly side of a gaming community exists.

You're not playing for the right reasons, then. Don't play for the sake of other people--play for yourself.

I'm not sure you're using play in the proper sense there. 'Work' sounds like a more appropriate verb: I play lightly, I play for myself when I'm playing by myself, but when I'm playing with other people I want them to have fun too. Like you said, who the hell are you to decide for me what's fun and what's not fun? :D

 

[Corigames]

Ok, then I will respond acordingly:

I think that Smash is more of a sandbox game. Unlike others with set combos, complicated button presses (like quarter circle + button OR back -> forward + Button), and relatively weak level design, smash is very unique. Because of this uniqueness, I think that some people have trouble with it. It's not all about getting that one hit and going into a chain, it's not all about picking you favorite character and trying to pull that one chain off. There's a lot to it. There's much more mind work in smash. No, I'm not saying that others require no brain process, far from it. I just think that the smash series requires you to utilize your ability to move as not only a way to approach and retreat, but a way to confuse your enemy, which is essential.

Not to mention the game has different goals then other games by forcing you to get a ring out instead of stamina bars going down, but that's just another reason why it can overwhelm people. I don't think Brawl changed much of that, but just crippled it overall. Your ability to move has been hindered. Your step by step choices don't seem to affect the outcome much. You can't combo as easily in this one. It just seems like all the great parts of the series were slimmed down. I like how pretty the game is. I love the music in the game. I had fun on the adventure mode. But none of that matters if the gameplay isn't as good as the predecessor.

While that may be an opinion, I do have backing as to why I hold that opinion. I can back it with reason and understanding. I don't, however, understand why people would play Brawl competitively in loom of the evidence in front of us. Play it to have fun? Yeah. Play it to see who is better at smash? Not so much. But, here I am de-railing this thread... I think.

 

[Mardyke]

While that may be an opinion, I do have backing as to why I hold that opinion. I can back it with reason and understanding. I don't, however, understand why people would play Brawl competitively in loom of the evidence in front of us. Play it to have fun? Yeah. Play it to see who is better at smash? Not so much. But, here I am de-railing this thread... I think.

That opinion is awesome. Keep it that way.

 

[Corigames]

That opinion is awesome. Keep it that way.

Thanks, but can you do one thing for me. On the post two above this one, you have me and someone else quoted. Can you fix the quotes so that it doesn't look like I said all of that? I hate it when people think I said things I didn't.

 

[Samochan]

Given, you should at least try to be friendly to your opponent, even if they are a whiny n00b who complains about you being "cheap" after a match--but that's not every gamer. You're making a ridiculously big generalization when you say all competitives are *******s.

I'd say bigger part of the casuals than the competitive are like, ten times more annoying and jerks when they feel so pompous and sure of their skills while actually they're complete noobs that cannot differentiate between a grab and ftilt. Then they pitifully whine and complain over all the little things you do in a match, claiming it's cheap and broken (even if they're being hypocrites and do it themselves as well) and do not listen to common sense if someone were to kindly teach them or just play for fun. At least competitives usually understand the game mechanics and such better so there's less whining and complaining going on, so it would make sense that the bigger majority of the whining sort are casuals who have no understanding of the game itself (note, thsoe who don't understand, not just casuals). Smash is fun on many levels, but it doesn't matter if the opposing player is competitive or not if they're simply idiots. >_> Good thing the people here are not of that sort and melee + brawl are fun played casually as well.

Corey hit the nail in the head as usual. Luv ya corey <3 But I dunno if the uniqueness has anything to do with game mechanics than the exterior troubling people playing more general fightning games. Smash is really easy to learn on basic level and gets tougher as you progress since it's very deep, but I'm afraid those competitive people don't go digging deep enough and settle for known competitive games. And brawl's imago is not helping how people look at smash competitively either and certainly not when they pick it up and play. The clunky and hindered feel of control you have over your character and actions and the speed of the gameplay doesn't compare to what you can do on most fightning games and even other genres played competitively. There's a certain thrill on it when you feel you can do whatever you're capable of doing with your fingers and having a perfect control over your characters on an intense match, speedrun or the likes, and then getting the feeling of accomplishment when you've done something really amazing that works well to your advantage and gain the victory over your opponent.

Brawl is like a door that needs it's hinges greased before it can open completely. Now it just makes pitiful noises while trying to look really pretty. :/

 

[RDK]

That's fine then. Just one question if I may: what if you lose?

I said they were? If I did, then sorry: but I think you probably know better than I do that that ugly side of a gaming community exists.

I'm not sure you're using play in the proper sense there. 'Work' sounds like a more appropriate verb: I play lightly, I play for myself when I'm playing by myself, but when I'm playing with other people I want them to have fun too. Like you said, who the hell are you to decide for me what's fun and what's not fun? :D

Hey, look. I can be clever and change the name of the person I'm quoting, to compensate for my spotty logic and horrible reasoning, too.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

are people really still posting here? haha

 

[Mardyke]

Hey, look. I can be clever and change the name of the person I'm quoting, to compensate for my spotty logic and horrible reasoning, too.

It was a joke silly, learn to take one and lighten up.

are people really still posting here? haha

Internet nerds are amazing, aren't we?

 

[LOL_Master]

biggest frankenstein ever