Sakurai does not want Smash to be a competitive franchise

[Black Mantis]

Nintendo is targeting the hardcore audience. Don't let that E3 performance fool you.

 

[metaXzero]

With the Wii? The hell you smoking?

 

[Black Mantis]

With the Wii? The hell you smoking?

Really E3 in general went downhill many years ago. Don't forget about the Tokyo Game Show.

 

[MarKO X]

at the end of the day, i can always look at brawl and laugh because i can name Rob "WallE"

This was just an excellent post...

People are playing it begrudgingly because that's what everyone else is doing at the moment. Most of the best Brawl players really don't like the game at all (see M2K), but play it because that's what all the tournaments are hosting and that's where they are going to make money.

It's easy to say "just play Melee", but there just isn't the same amount of access to playing it as there are a lot of Brawl newbies that are flooding the boards and basically giving away their money at tournaments. People just complain about Brawl because while most competitive players do realize it's an inferior game, they haven't gone back to Melee really, and we just don't want the Melee community to die.

As far as for what Smash was meant to be, that is irrelevant; the game is what we make of it, and unfortunately, Brawl hasn't been made into much.

Not this argument again...

As a "professional" Smash player, how much net gain in capital do you actually get? Last I checked, it wasn't much, especially in comparison to anything in CGS or WCG.

Nintendo is targeting the hardcore audience. Don't let that E3 performance fool you.

another excellent post... but he's right... none of them other "hardcore" systems are taking steps into virtual reality, right?

 

[thumbswayup]

ROFL God I hate Nintendo

 

[Black Mantis]

This was just an excellent post...



Not this argument again...

As a "professional" Smash player, how much net gain in capital do you actually get? Last I checked, it wasn't much, especially in comparison to anything in CGS or WCG.



another excellent post... but he's right... none of them other "hardcore" systems are taking steps into virtual reality, right?

Actually Ken said that Smash helped pay his way through college. Besides scholarships and working that's what I want to do.

 

[Tujex]

People are playing it begrudgingly because that's what everyone else is doing at the moment. Most of the best Brawl players really don't like the game at all (see M2K), but play it because that's what all the tournaments are hosting and that's where they are going to make money.

It's easy to say "just play Melee", but there just isn't the same amount of access to playing it as there are a lot of Brawl newbies that are flooding the boards and basically giving away their money at tournaments. People just complain about Brawl because while most competitive players do realize it's an inferior game, they haven't gone back to Melee really, and we just don't want the Melee community to die.

As far as for what Smash was meant to be, that is irrelevant; the game is what we make of it, and unfortunately, Brawl hasn't been made into much.

Meh, I see where you're coming from. I personally, like Brawl....and have lost my touch in Melee because of consistently playing the darn game. It is a fun game for me and my friends since I can have more entertaining matches against lower levels players than I could simply owning them endlessly like I could in Melee. I guess that's why I prefer Brawl...

 

[Fletch]

As a "professional" Smash player, how much net gain in capital do you actually get? Last I checked, it wasn't much, especially in comparison to anything in CGS or WCG.

Me personally? Absolutely nothing. But for someone like M2K or any of the big pros, money is absolutely a factor, along with there being more people to play against at the moment. Why else would someone like M2K who seems to vehemently oppose the game continue to play it?

 

[MarTh-]

Brawl is very fun, the gameplay is a bit slower paced then melee, but there is still definitely skill & competition!

 

[slikvik]

I'm liking brawl more than melee now, but its prolly cuz im bored of melee

its inevitable

 

[Corigames]

The only reason I said something about IGN is because they are hardcore. Unlike this site they don't discriminate against a video game unless it really sucks (bad games Superman 64 or ET). The discrimination for Brawl on this site is ********.

Wait, so what are we doing wrong?

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I used to like Brawl a lot, but now it seems as if I only go to these tournaments to socialize with friends that I met in the Melee community. Even when I traveled to Axis, I only player friendlies with T!mmy and T0mmy and then played Melee. Sure, Brawl is entertaining, but only to a certain extent to where it serves as an emulator to Melee (Even though it fails in those departments to some). The fact that it has Wi-Fi only makes the game mildly entertaining.

*sigh*...

I miss the E For All demo. -_-

 

[Black Mantis]

Wait, so what are we doing wrong?

Three things being done wrong:

1.The hatred towards Sakurai
2.The hatred towards Brawl
3.The hatred towards 08ers because of Brawl

 

[Neon304]

^^if an elitist thinks RDK is right, the he's right! some people such as Kieser are so ignorant. *puts up flame shield*

Elitists are generally biased, look up the definition of elitist, its not exactly something that should be bragged about.

Edit: read this http://www.yourdictionary.com/elitist#collo-11276

 

[flyinfilipino]

I miss the E For All demo. -_-

Do you think it would've ended up more "balanced" than our current version of Brawl?

 

[The Slayer]

Three things being done wrong:

1.The hatred towards Sakurai
2.The hatred towards Brawl
3.The hatred towards 08ers because of Brawl

Well, to express the hate towards him is probably silly, but it's not really wrong though. If people like us hate him, let them. We have our reasons and views of hating them, but it's not like we want to kill him or anything. Besides, why is it wrong to express a view about him?

There will always be hatred of the game, regardless of where you go. The same rule applies for every other game, even Melee and SSB. I'm not going to state reasons why people hate Brawl because it'll probably cause a Melee vs Brawl debate.

Obviously, most 08ers are being ignored and abused is that they don't have too much knowledge of what competitive Smash is all about, and usually spam up topics with blank, biased, opinions that does not help the metagame in any shape or form. There are some out there that actually have a brain and use it, but usually, you don't see a lot of them.

Of course IGN don't give a rat's butt about the two because they just want more revenue and nothing more.

 

[Black Mantis]

Well, to express the hate towards him is probably silly, but it's not really wrong though. If people like us hate him, let them. We have our reasons and views of hating them, but it's not like we want to kill him or anything. Besides, why is it wrong to express a view about him?

There will always be hatred of the game, regardless of where you go. The same rule applies for every other game, even Melee and SSB. I'm not going to state reasons why people hate Brawl because it'll probably cause a Melee vs Brawl debate.

Obviously, most 08ers are being ignored and abused is that they don't have too much knowledge of what competitive Smash is all about, and usually spam up topics with blank, biased, opinions that does not help the metagame in any shape or form. There are some out there that actually have a brain and use it, but usually, you don't see a lot of them.

Of course IGN don't give a rat's butt about the two because they just want more revenue and nothing more.

Too many people don't know the difference between disliking what Sakurai does as far as the game and Sakurai the person. Just look around the forums for some of the most ******** crap about him.

I can't understand why people would hate the game. Actually if you're good at 64, Melee, and Brawl you deserve massive props.

I can't speak for every 08er but I know I'm smart. Besides does it really matter what year you join a website?

IGN is cool because besides revenue they offer other things. Besides on this site you can be a premium.

 

[Aesir]

On new years it'll be 09ers that will be hated.

That's the way it works, they're new, they don't know what they're talking about so they'll be ignored and abused. lol

 

[Jack Kieser]

On new years it'll be 09ers that will be hated.

That's the way it works, they're new, they don't know what they're talking about so they'll be ignored and abused. lol

It's sad that we speak of this as though it is an inevitability.

 

[Aesir]

It's been like that for as long as I've been here, when a noob posts something stupid you're mean to them and show them how stupid they are. If they learn you've done your job, if they don't well that's one less idiot to worry about.

 

[Black Mantis]

It's been like that for as long as I've been here, when a noob posts something stupid you're mean to them and show them how stupid they are. If they learn you've done your job, if they don't well that's one less idiot to worry about.

Maybe somebody should change that then. Its not an official rule its just stupid hazing.

 

[The Slayer]

Too many people don't know the difference between disliking what Sakurai does as far as the game and Sakurai the person. Just look around the forums for some of the most ******** crap about him.

I can't understand why people would hate the game. Actually if you're good at 64, Melee, and Brawl you deserve massive props.

I can't speak for every 08er but I know I'm smart. Besides does it really matter what year you join a website?

IGN is cool because besides revenue they offer other things. Besides on this site you can be a premium.

I usually be in the Tactical Discussion Board a lot, so I'm not really sure if I see his name used in a really retared way. And some of it would be used for the lulz.

Well, that's because you have to jump in there shoes to see what they are trying to say and look back at what you are playing in their eyes. You become a lot more unbiased that way and it'll make you look even more creditable with or without having a "big name" in the Smash community.

It just depends on what site you are going to. If you're going to a site were it's causal and just for fun, then you don't need too much of anything to join it. However, if you going to a site were things are taking more seriously than other people, then you might want to rethink it over if you want to join or not, especially if you have the knowledge of what they are talking about.

Fortunately though, we're not saying you should die in the fire and leave, but we are saying that you should try to develop within the community in a "open minded" fashion. If you're able to do that, then your mind will be suprised by the new things you learn from these boards and probably learn a few things that would take years for you to do. It's hard to do, but the payout is perfect I tell ya.

True, but it's usually for getting rid of these silly ads. Premium or not though, you're going to learn a lot more than just "hating the game" from this site.

 

[LOL_Master]

hatred toward the stupid shirty things that the 08ers say

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I can't speak for every 08er but I know I'm smart. Besides does it really matter what year you join a website?

Being smart alone doesn't cut it. Unless you were a tournament-attending machine in multiple states facing off against the top players in the region, being a 2008 Smashboards member means you are new to the community, and there are many subtle truths you do not yet understand. So, yes, it does matter what year you join a web site. Many of us have been around the block.

 

[Xsyven]

Buzz be all up in da block, yo.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Buzz be all up in da block, yo.

no U!

Then you have people like Xsyven who join in 2002 but only become active in late 2006. ^_^

 

[Xsyven]

It's because I'm cool like that.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Personally, I believe that doubles competition is the future of Brawl. There are plenty of genuine combos you can come up with by having teammates work together. Plus, the slower pace makes the game actually coherent with four people.

 

[Black Mantis]

I usually be in the Tactical Discussion Board a lot, so I'm not really sure if I see his name used in a really retared way. And some of it would be used for the lulz.

Well, that's because you have to jump in there shoes to see what they are trying to say and look back at what you are playing in their eyes. You become a lot more unbiased that way and it'll make you look even more creditable with or without having a "big name" in the Smash community.

It just depends on what site you are going to. If you're going to a site were it's causal and just for fun, then you don't need too much of anything to join it. However, if you going to a site were things are taking more seriously than other people, then you might want to rethink it over if you want to join or not, especially if you have the knowledge of what they are talking about.

Fortunately though, we're not saying you should die in the fire and leave, but we are saying that you should try to develop within the community in a "open minded" fashion. If you're able to do that, then your mind will be suprised by the new things you learn from these boards and probably learn a few things that would take years for you to do. It's hard to do, but the payout is perfect I tell ya.

True, but it's usually for getting rid of these silly ads. Premium or not though, you're going to learn a lot more than just "hating the game" from this site.

My thing is that you can't talk about Sakurai the person. You can talk about his vision for games but you can't talk about him. Not to many people on this site know the difference.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Personally, I believe that doubles competition is the future of Brawl. There are plenty of genuine combos you can come up with by having teammates work together. Plus, the slower pace makes the game actually coherent with four people.

I was thinking something along these lines as well recently.
it would be alot more interesting than it is now.

 

[M@v]

To be honest, without tripping, brawl would be almost as good competitive wise as melee, just in a different way. Instead of across the board ATs(wavedashing, l-canceling, etc.), We have character Specific ATs, such as Foxs shine stall, Falcos boost combo, DDDs CG, snakes mortarsliding, the list goes on and on. And asformentioned by others, 2v2s rock in this game, and there is a lot of strategy involved, picking the right team can make all the difference.

 

[Fletch]

Personally, I believe that doubles competition is the future of Brawl. There are plenty of genuine combos you can come up with by having teammates work together. Plus, the slower pace makes the game actually coherent with four people.

I haven't really heard this brought up in a while, but I definitely like it... 1v1 is pretty awful to play, but doubles can be really fun/exciting.

 

[choknater]

brawl doubles are amazing

 

[The Slayer]

My thing is that you can't talk about Sakurai the person. You can talk about his vision for games but you can't talk about him. Not to many people on this site know the difference.

Like I said, they probably did it for the lulz, in which it probably failed for you and many others. Either way, his vision is degrading the natural way of playing competitive Smash and it needs to be cut down in the next one.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Like I said, they probably did it for the lulz, in which it probably failed for you and many others. Either way, his vision is degrading the natural way of playing competitive Smash and it needs to be cut down in the next one.

See, it's stuff like this that confuses me about 'competitive Smash'. If anyone would have the right to define the 'natural' or 'correct' way to do anything, shouldn't that right be assigned to the game designer? I mean, it's fine if we don't agree, but shouldn't only he have the right to say, 'No, this is how it's supposed to work.' After all, he designed the game. He knows what the design documents say (he wrote them), and how the game is supposed to operate on a base level.

Anything we do that contradicts the design documents, by very definition, is automatically 'unnatural', even if the game allows it because 'supposed to' and 'natural' assume intention, and even game programming can contradict design intention.

 

[RDK]

nintendo Is Targeting The Hardcore Audience. Don't Let That E3 Performance Fool You.

with The Wii? The Hell You Smoking?

^ LMFAO.

Spoiler

10FINALFOCKSINATIONS

See, it's stuff like this that confuses me about 'competitive Smash'. If anyone would have the right to define the 'natural' or 'correct' way to do anything, shouldn't that right be assigned to the game designer? I mean, it's fine if we don't agree, but shouldn't only he have the right to say, 'No, this is how it's supposed to work.' After all, he designed the game. He knows what the design documents say (he wrote them), and how the game is supposed to operate on a base level.

Anything we do that contradicts the design documents, by very definition, is automatically 'unnatural', even if the game allows it because 'supposed to' and 'natural' assume intention, and even game programming can contradict design intention.

Sakurai doesn't dictate how players will play the game; the players do. Once something becomes public domain, it's open to anybody's interpretation of it. It's kind of like a book: that book may have been written with special meaning by the author, but when it becomes transferred to the reader, it's just a bunch of words that can be attached with certain meaning that that particular reader may associate with it.

Same with the Smash situation. Sakurai can be as anti-competitive as he wants, but he can't tell people how to play his game.

My thing is that you can't talk about Sakurai the person. You can talk about his vision for games but you can't talk about him. Not to many people on this site know the difference.

Like it's been said before, it's the internet. That's the way people react to something they just mildly dislike. Nobody really wants to murder Sakurai.

 

[LOL_Master]

i wanna be hardcore for nintendo yeahhhhhhhhh

 

[Jack Kieser]

Sakurai doesn't dictate how players will play the game; the players do. Once something becomes public domain, it's open to anybody's interpretation of it. It's kind of like a book: that book may have been written with special meaning by the author, but when it becomes transferred to the reader, it's just a bunch of words that can be attached with certain meaning that that particular reader may associate with it.

Same with the Smash situation. Sakurai can be as anti-competitive as he wants, but he can't tell people how to play his game.

No no no... that's a separate subject. What I was responding to was the concept of the 'natural' or 'correct' way to play. What we do with the game being justified is a completely different beast altogether, as is dictation of play.

Basically, if I create a watch, I intend it to be used to tell time. Now, let's say that the watch I make has some heft to it, and you decide to use it to bludgeon people to death. You can't say, 'Well, this is the natural/correct way to use this object (the watch).' Only I, the creator, can say that. Whether you are justified or capable to use the watch as a bludgeon is a different subject.

 

[RDK]

Let it be known to the general populace that I actually do go around bludgeoning people with my Rolex.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Let it be known to the general populace that I actually do go around bludgeoning people with my Rolex.

Rolex for top tier watchmaker?