Sakurai does not want Smash to be a competitive franchise

[battousai555]

Because you aren't a meanie doo doo head. Instead you are a bullheaded, ignorant, anti-competitive asshat that likes to present strawman arguments and blanket statements as factual evidence to support your claims, and in general, are a thorn to the communities side because you have yet to acknowledge much of anything from people that debate with you. That's why I specifically told people not to, cause if they did it would only make the thread go downhill fast.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ad hominem

 

[Ark22]

It is disheartening to know that Sakurai himself tried to make the game less competitive. Thats what items and a full stage selection were for in melee. If people wanted a fun, feel good, everyone-is-a-winner game, they could play all stages and all items on very high frequency. If they wanted a more competitive scene, they could play with no items and a limited stage selection.

Thankfully, Sakurai didn't know enough about the Ice Climbers to balance them properly

 

[illboyzeus]

it's lol worthy that so many have this blind faith they will instantly overtake melee vets. look at most of the tourney results, melee players still dominate.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Trust me when I say it is better to get everything off your chest before it even gets on it (if you know what I mean). I would much rather have a group of people dislike me than towalk around, constantly angry becuase I didn't say exactly how I feel. Screw formality. Screw political correctness. Screw mental filters. Say what you want, about what you want no matter if it makes sense or not! Do it! It's better to constantly be venting anger than snapping on some poor soul who didn't see it coming.

I hate emotion n00bs.

coreygames, I have a newfound respect for you.

EDIT: So, I kind of forgot what I was going to post, but now I remember. Why are you guys saying that we shouldn't even try to play Brawl competitively? That makes little to no sense. So Sak didn't want the game to be played competitively. Whee. He didn't want Melee to be played competitively, and we did it anyway. The point is that we can do whatever the f*ck we want to do, and plenty of people want to play Brawl competitively. That means we can do it, and to hell with what Sakurai wanted us to do. Just because Melee is better at competitive play (something I'm not even entirely sure I agree with), that doesn't mean we can't just... play both. Or does it? I don't even know anymore, thanks to all the BS arguing that's been going on.

 

[Gill]

Trust me when I say it is better to get everything off your chest before it even gets on it (if you know what I mean). I would much rather have a group of people dislike me than towalk around, constantly angry becuase I didn't say exactly how I feel. Screw formality. Screw political correctness. Screw mental filters. Say what you want, about what you want no matter if it makes sense or not! Do it! It's better to constantly be venting anger than snapping on some poor soul who didn't see it coming.

I hate emotion n00bs.

Not to turn this topic into a political debate (or maybe we should, for the sake of arguing about something else for a while), but, I too have a newfound respect for you, we'd get along.

I'm really despising America right now. Free speech is being **** all over on right now, people think they have the right to not be offended. Children are being raised with a "everyones a winner" mentality. We're raising people to become really weak spiritually. Its going to backfire, hard. I'm just waiting for it to finally reach that point so we can all wake up already.

 

[Aesir]

I miss the day on smashboards where we could insult members when they were wrong and it was perfect acceptable.

****ing Political Correctness.

 

[thumbswayup]

Aesir let's play melee

 

[The Executive]

I miss the day on smashboards where we could insult members when they were wrong and it was perfect acceptable.

****ing Political Correctness.

PC will be the death of us all, because when they win they'll pull a fast one and switch us all to MAC (muted and censored).

Let your voice be heard!

 

[RDK]

sad ain't it? Everytime I come to this board the two threads I see on the top are this and Scar's . You would think people would stop complaining already as it accomplishes nothing when the game is already out and there's nothing people can do about it.

This board is a complete joke right now.

The Brawl Boards have always been a complete joke. At least people in this and Scar's thread can actually have a somewhat intelligent discussion.

 

[The Executive]

The Brawl Boards have always been a complete joke. At least people in this and Scar's thread can actually have a somewhat intelligent discussion.

Would the Smash Debater forum be somewhere to have consistent arguments that are relative to the topic instead of junk like this on the Brawl boards that quickly degenerates into flaming garbage? I'd love to get in. It's like a safe zone for intelligent people.

 

[RDK]

Would the Smash Debater forum be somewhere to have consistent arguments that are relative to the topic instead of junk like this on the Brawl boards that quickly degenerates into flaming garbage? I'd love to get in. It's like a safe zone for intelligent people.

Compared to the rest of the boards, the Debate Hall is Valhalla. If I get too frustrated with the n00bish discussion here, I go post in the Debate Hall for a while where people actually have the gift of logic.

The occasional ****** gets in, but Crimson King is usually pretty good about who gets accepted.

 

[LouisLeGros]

Nintendo Power: This is one that a lot of hardcore Smash Bros. fans have long wondered about. Was the ablility to "Wavedash" in Melee intentional or a glitch?

Sakurai: Of course, we noticed that you could do that during the development period. With Super Smash Bros. Brawl, it wasn't a matter of, "OK, do we leave it in or do we take it out?"
We really just wanted this game, again, to appeal to and be played by gamers of all different levels. We felt that there was a growing gap between beginners and advanced players, and taking that out helps to level the playing field. It wasn't a big priority or anything, but when we were building the game around the idea of making it fair for everybody, it just made sense to take it out. And it also goes back to wanting to make something different from Melee and giving players the opportunity to find new things to enjoy.

just found this in another thread, I think it supports Gimpy's original post... but that might just be me.



and I'm going to need to apply to the debate halls.

 

[Corigames]

I'm glad that people can like more for how I stand even if they don't agree with what I stand for.

Thanks

 

[Lumpy..]

i suck at smash...
and i suck at smashboards too...
but i have hella good tech skill at youtube...

 

[Corigames]

i suck at smash...
and i suck at smashboards too...
but i have hella good tech skill at youtube...

I can roll veoh pretty strong, but I prefer more mindgames... stumble upon video!

 

[hippochinfat!!]

We get it.

You do not think Brawl is as competitve as Melee. You prefer Melee. So go to the Melee boards! If you want to discuss Brawl that's fine but if all you're going to do is say how Brawl sucks and it has no combos then you need to GTFO.

 

[LOL_Master]

leave brawl alone!!!!!!!!! you shouldn't pick on noobs, why pick on brawl!!!! BOO BOO BEE BOOO!

 

[bovineblitzkrieg]

We get it.

You do not think Brawl is as competitve as Melee. You prefer Melee. So go to the Melee boards! If you want to discuss Brawl that's fine but if all you're going to do is say how Brawl sucks and it has no combos then you need to GTFO.

Perhaps if we reach 1000 pages of complaints we'll trigger a transdimensional effect that'll bring an idealized version of Brawl to our timespace curve.

That's why I keep coming back.




(that and if I don't put my frustrations out there and see them mirrored back, I think I'll crack.)

 

[LOL_Master]

Perhaps if we reach 1000 pages of complaints we'll trigger a transdimensional effect that'll bring an idealized version of Brawl to our timespace curve.

That's why I keep coming back.




(that and if I don't put my frustrations out there and see them mirrored back, I think I'll crack.)

loooooooooooooool, nice

 

[reborn394]

Basically, he's saying not to be hateful in terms of competition, that's all.

 

[Corigames]

tRUTH

We get it.

You do not think Brawl is as competitve as Melee. You prefer Melee. So go to the Melee boards! If you want to discuss Brawl that's fine but if all you're going to do is say how Brawl sucks and it has no combos then you need to GTFO.

I think we should listen to him guys. His point hasn't been discussed and we should take it into careful consideration. I suppose if we want to talk about Brawl negatively, we should take it to the melee boards. Because, as we all know...

IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE TO DISCUSS BRAWL IN THE MELEE FORUMS SO THAT WE DON'T HURT THE FEELINGS OF NEW PEOPLE WHEN WE TELL THEM THIS GAME SUCKS FOR REASONS A, B, AND C AND THEY CAN ONLY SAY IN RESPONSE THAT IT IS MORE FUN! YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE YOU SUCKED AT A REAL GAME!

 

[LOL_Master]

l00000000000000000lssss, i wish coreygames lived in jersey...preferably near rowan university...

 

[Corigames]

I wish everyone lived in front of a video camera, so that I can watch them when they... nvm.

 

[Lumpy..]

I can roll veoh pretty strong, but I prefer more mindgames... stumble upon video!

STUMBLE UPON ROX MY SOX!!!!
haha
lawl at people saying you should go to the melee boards to talk about brawl...

 

[LOL_Master]

double lewl

 

[KingAce]

Even if Sakurai doesn't want smash to be competitive I think from this early on you can already see a lot of tournaments building up and not to mention a lot of players that are consistently beating people. If you look on gamebattles then you see people that are 100 - 1, 212-14, 84-5. And theres a team that is 30 - 0 with winning 60 games, and only losing 3 ( of course they still didnt lose their set ) so they are undefeated. What im trying to say is even though they balanced out brawl a lot and made it a lot less technical, that must still mean that players are able to consistently win over others, thus if the community WANTS to make it competitive then it will be.

 

[Firus]

Even if Sakurai doesn't want smash to be competitive I think from this early on you can already see a lot of tournaments building up and not to mention a lot of players that are consistently beating people. If you look on gamebattles then you see people that are 100 - 1, 212-14, 84-5. And theres a team that is 30 - 0 with winning 60 games, and only losing 3 ( of course they still didnt lose their set ) so they are undefeated. What im trying to say is even though they balanced out brawl a lot and made it a lot less technical, that must still mean that players are able to consistently win over others, thus if the community WANTS to make it competitive then it will be.

I agree with this. Until Sakurai FORCES equality onto us by not letting us turn items off, making gimmick-only stages, forcing handicaps, or making us roll a die to attack, the community is going to try (and succeed) to make it a competitive franchise. I don't understand why he keeps fighting it, if the hardcore Smash players want to play it competitively and not just for family fun, he shouldn't screw with that. You can have family fun in a game that's also competitive, you can't be competitive in a family fun game. Or at least, if you can, it's pretty hard.

 

[ForteX]

I seem to recall a statement back on page one something along the lines of not being able to change people's minds about things, and how easy it is to give up on something for people who have that mindset. I don't know why that didn't instantly win this thread.

As KingAce said, GameBattles, although I consider it a poor judgment of skill because of the lag that is often involved, there are players that are clearly showing superiority over others, and that will always exist. Someone here said before that as long as players exist who are willing to practice more than the casual gamer, and are willing to discover more technical aspects to a game, they will always be the competitive players and will always be better. Nothing Sakurai could ever do can change that. Tripping is only as bad as people will make it seem. I have personally never lost a life because I tripped, nor have I taken a life or won a game because someone tripped. It happens too fast. You can't prepare for it. Chances are nothing will happen because you tripped that wouldn't have happened anyway.

I remember reading something Shigeru Miyamoto said, about how Nintendo never reads anything from the fans before the game comes out, but after the release, they do like to see the reaction the fans have. And if that is true, I can imagine Sakurai getting enjoyment out of seeing the competitive community he - perhaps I shouldn't go as far as saying "hates"... but - hates squirm under the removal of a few tricks and the addition of quite a few annoyances. I would still like to remind him that no matter what he does to any game he ever makes, there will always be someone better than another person. It's just natural. In Melee, I wavedashed and L-canceled. I rarely had to use it to win because I'm just better than the people I played against. I was more serious about it, and I still am. I don't play with items because it shows more skill, I don't like moving stages or stages with more hazards than ground because it shows more skill. If the kids want to play there, fine by me, knock yourselves out. They can stay there and enjoy their fight with items on Rumble Falls laughing at each other as smoke bombs and final smashes pollute the air and they have to do more jumping than fighting. That's great if it's what you like. But I know that just about everyone here will agree that fighting on level ground with no hazards and no items is just as fun.

As it is, Smash Bros is separated from other fighting games because of the range of motion you have, and that ability to go everywhere and attack from all sides gives it an element of competitiveness that could never be removed unless Sakurai turned Smash Bros into Tekken, which I don't think even he wants. The sooner the complaints stop, the faster the competitiveness comes back. Like I said before, yeah, tripping is ********. The edges on Final Destination are annoying. The online play is a bit laggy at times (rumor says that may change soon), and there aren't many flat, fair stages. I know that and it annoys me. But I'm not going to let it ruin Brawl for me. It's been improved over Melee in many aspects, especially characters and music. Not everything has been a loss.

 

[Fireblaster]

I seem to recall a statement back on page one something along the lines of not being able to change people's minds about things, and how easy it is to give up on something for people who have that mindset. I don't know why that didn't instantly win this thread.

As KingAce said, GameBattles, although I consider it a poor judgment of skill because of the lag that is often involved, there are players that are clearly showing superiority over others, and that will always exist. Someone here said before that as long as players exist who are willing to practice more than the casual gamer, and are willing to discover more technical aspects to a game, they will always be the competitive players and will always be better. Nothing Sakurai could ever do can change that. Tripping is only as bad as people will make it seem. I have personally never lost a life because I tripped, nor have I taken a life or won a game because someone tripped. It happens too fast. You can't prepare for it. Chances are nothing will happen because you tripped that wouldn't have happened anyway.

I remember reading something Shigeru Miyamoto said, about how Nintendo never reads anything from the fans before the game comes out, but after the release, they do like to see the reaction the fans have. And if that is true, I can imagine Sakurai getting enjoyment out of seeing the competitive community he - perhaps I shouldn't go as far as saying "hates"... but - hates squirm under the removal of a few tricks and the addition of quite a few annoyances. I would still like to remind him that no matter what he does to any game he ever makes, there will always be someone better than another person. It's just natural. In Melee, I wavedashed and L-canceled. I rarely had to use it to win because I'm just better than the people I played against. I was more serious about it, and I still am. I don't play with items because it shows more skill, I don't like moving stages or stages with more hazards than ground because it shows more skill. If the kids want to play there, fine by me, knock yourselves out. They can stay there and enjoy their fight with items on Rumble Falls laughing at each other as smoke bombs and final smashes pollute the air and they have to do more jumping than fighting. That's great if it's what you like. But I know that just about everyone here will agree that fighting on level ground with no hazards and no items is just as fun.

As it is, Smash Bros is separated from other fighting games because of the range of motion you have, and that ability to go everywhere and attack from all sides gives it an element of competitiveness that could never be removed unless Sakurai turned Smash Bros into Tekken, which I don't think even he wants. The sooner the complaints stop, the faster the competitiveness comes back. Like I said before, yeah, tripping is ********. The edges on Final Destination are annoying. The online play is a bit laggy at times (rumor says that may change soon), and there aren't many flat, fair stages. I know that and it annoys me. But I'm not going to let it ruin Brawl for me. It's been improved over Melee in many aspects, especially characters and music. Not everything has been a loss.

Hitstun basically doesn't exist. There's no combos. Camping and projectile spamming is dominant. Brawl consists of players turtling, poking each other here and there until someone just reaches high damage. It aint gonna get more deep than that. The only way players are gonna get better in this crappy engine is learning how to camp better and playing it safe better. No amount of "competitiveness" can save a terrible fighting game engine from being bad (Look up Soul Calibur 2/3).

 

[Jun.]

in brawl

kills come with strong hits at high percentages because everyone's return is much better

high percentages come with spamming and turtling

ouch

they are legitimate strategies lol (anyone see that shirt?)

 

[Wiseguy]

I think we should listen to him guys. His point hasn't been discussed and we should take it into careful consideration. I suppose if we want to talk about Brawl negatively, we should take it to the melee boards. Because, as we all know...

IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE TO DISCUSS BRAWL IN THE MELEE FORUMS SO THAT WE DON'T HURT THE FEELINGS OF NEW PEOPLE WHEN WE TELL THEM THIS GAME SUCKS FOR REASONS A, B, AND C AND THEY CAN ONLY SAY IN RESPONSE THAT IT IS MORE FUN! YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE YOU SUCKED AT A REAL GAME!

Good point. If only there was an official thread for discussing complaints with Brawl. Then maybe a SWF forum moderator like Saumerai Panda could sticky it for easy access. Because as we all know...

..uhh... there is.

That is all.

 

[Circu]

What I would have liked to seen is a greater depth of customization options for matches. I do like the special brawl options it has, but I wish it had a little more depth. Why not give us the option of increasing movement speed to 110% or something like that? With adjustments to speed and a few other areas of the game (like turning off random trips), the game could be made more competitive. This way, people who just want to goof around and have fun can do that, and people who enjoy a good, competitive game can have that. If Sakurai really wanted to try to please everyone, this would seem like it would be the best way...

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^Owned.

Okay, I think I'm done spamming for today.

lol.

Anyway, Wiseguy has the best sig ever.

 

[Nobie]

Hitstun basically doesn't exist. There's no combos. Camping and projectile spamming is dominant. Brawl consists of players turtling, poking each other here and there until someone just reaches high damage. It aint gonna get more deep than that. The only way players are gonna get better in this crappy engine is learning how to camp better and playing it safe better. No amount of "competitiveness" can save a terrible fighting game engine from being bad (Look up Soul Calibur 2/3).

What you described as a "crappy engine" of poking each other here and there is FAR more important for a fighting game than combos will EVER be.

 

[Aesir]

Sc 2 was bad?

ROFL.

 

[Firus]

What I would have liked to seen is a greater depth of customization options for matches. I do like the special brawl options it has, but I wish it had a little more depth. Why not give us the option of increasing movement speed to 110% or something like that? With adjustments to speed and a few other areas of the game (like turning off random trips), the game could be made more competitive. This way, people who just want to goof around and have fun can do that, and people who enjoy a good, competitive game can have that. If Sakurai really wanted to try to please everyone, this would seem like it would be the best way...

Or even better, removal of stage gimmicks--Spear Pillar would be godly if there weren't so many gimmicks. I still love it, but it would be godly without them.

You're right, the way he did it, it's like he's trying to control us. Sure, he allows some customization, but...he's trying too hard to control how the franchise works. It can't be too competitive for fear of the poor noobs...how about customization instead?

 

[Corigames]

Good point. If only there was an official thread for discussing complaints with Brawl. Then maybe a SWF forum moderator like Saumerai Panda could sticky it for easy access. Because as we all know...

..uhh... there is.

That is all.

So... why don't the Brawl forums have a "Blind Love" thread so that we can clean up the other half of the rubbish posts I have to encounter everyday.

And, your dickery fails when people talk about problems with Brawl and not just make posts complaining. People who like Brawl aren't the only ones allowed to talk about it >_>

 

[mzink*]

i love brawl as well as all the smash games, but if anything this thread made me understand hardcore competitive smashers argument alot better, i feel for you guys, i hope smash doesnt become what you fear, i hope it continues to cater to both casual and competitive sides.

 

[Corigames]

I suppose hardcore Melee players "grammar" a lot better then?

If anything, hardcore Brawl players have yet to give a sound reason as to why they like it more than Melee aside from the fact that they were bad at Melee and Brawl is easier for them to play. That's it. So, no, they are not better at arguing; unless, you could be saying that spamming that Brawl is more "fun" is an argument, they have us beat :D

 

[mzink*]

were you referring to my grammar? what did i say wrong? sorry i get lazy when i type

PS - o and i wasnt talking about brawlers, that was a typo, i edited it to competitive smashers