Ryokoyaksa vs Magus420 and the floating stitchface, Help us solve the turnip glitch!

[DtJ Jungle]

yah BAN ALL GLITCHES LOLZ

 

[Teczer0]

I don't think it'll make peach be better than fox LOL.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Fox sucks GREEE

 

[SheerMadness]

Nice glitch. This is smashboard's chance to see what its like to be a gametester.

I worked for EA as a gametester 2 years ago and this is the kind of **** you have to figure out every day. This glitch would be classified as a B. A "B" glitch is the 2nd worst type of glitch after an "A" otherwise known as a showstopper which consists only of glitches that actually crash the game.

Anyway from what I learned at EA not all glitches have 100% reproduction rates. This may be one of those glitches.

Start simple and try to pull a stitch with peach on dreamland. She hit falcon with it twice, airdodged, wavedashed back threw it and it froze. If that doesnt reproduce it you gotta get even more specific, like pulling it from the left platform and all the crazy **** peach did in between the third throw.

It honestly doesn't look reproduceable to me but if somebody is willing to devote enough time to it they might be able to prove me wrong.

 

[JFox]

this is awesome. too bad it seems like the other person has to co-operate to a great extent in order to purposefully recreate the glitch.

magus will figure it out, i have a great deal of confidence in him.

 

[SpaceFalcon]

Figure it out quick so we can ban it.

 

[Teczer0]

Figure it out quick so we can ban it.

Guys this isn't brawl, not all glitches get banned. Not only that its not like the glitch lets the turnip grows exponentially in size, and gain super hits or something.

Its just a turnip stays still, you guys act like the turnip glitch lets peach use shine that hits like marth's fsmash or something.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

What I see is that it all involves peach getting hit during, apparently, rolling. Magus, if you could test hitting peach during whatever notable actions peach does frame by frame, we would probably get something interesting down.

HAOEVA

this will probably only be useful in teams, due to you not being able to say in tournament "hold on a second I want to set up a glitch". If we can pull it off in teams, it would add a new element to teams.

 

[Teczer0]

3) Both could have had him get phantom hit to normal hit (phantom hit on a frame then on the following frame when Peach was still frozen in hitlag and Jiggs/Falcon continued their animation the hitbox made normal contact afterwards). The pound would have made 1st contact with the outside of the hitbox, and the Falcon n-air would have done this as well. The Pink Peach in the 3rd vid was also getting hit right before it was shown to be glitched and it could have happened with one of the many bits of fire. Maybe this screws it up when it also tries to drop the turnip from you getting hit on that same hit. You get frozen in hitlag from the phantom (when this happens you literally freeze in the exact position you were in and you don't go into the 'got hit' animation like you do during normal hitlag), and then restart the full normal hitlag when the full hit makes contact on the next frame. The turnip was supposed to be released and fall from a standstill but instead it isn't dropped and you end up holding onto it after that hit and it never leaves the phantom hitlag's 'freeze in place' state. *This is easily my best guess for how it happens based on the information I have*

If this is the correct way to do it does that mean we have to re-create a phantom hit?

Ugh.. thats like... impossible to accurately test

 

[joeplicate]

like how we banned the yo-yo glitch, right guys??

 

[Jihnsius]

Anyone have any clever ideas for setting up a semi-reliable way to test phantom hits? My best guess would be to head to BF or DL and have Peach roll to one side of a platform and every character, one by one, roll to the opposite side and do a couple hundred repetitions of each move. If they ever hit, it's unreliable, if not (but it looks close,) you're probably a couple of Peach's neutral animation frames away from getting a phantom hit every once in a great while.

Since it was done with a super scope in one of the videos, we can exclude Peach's pulling animation to have anything to do with it. Peach's throwing animation is no different from any other characters' (aside from maybe Mewtwo,) and each of those videos has a completely different method of producing the glitch, so we can actually probably exclude Peach altogether from the glitch. The only couple things that could tie Peach to this glitch that I can foresee are her float or doublejump-cancelability, since everything else she can do is universal and obviously not a hack-fix on the development end.

The item's inability to regain momentum probably means that there's a global variable that gets stuck somewhere, probably discluding the throwing function altogether. In this line of thinking it seems that this might somehow even be related to IC's and M2's freeze glitch, in which case it might not be a variable that gets stuck, but an object itself on it's pass through the physics engine. The main similarities that would tie these together would be taking physical damage (probably something even deeper than just damage,) calling the function for hit detection or object collission, but not actually registering the hit (in the case of phantoms.) Somewhere something in the routine between detecting a hit, applying the hitstun and trajectory, and the random item drop determination, the routine is ended without fulfilling the basic needs for what would seem like fluid physics, and the object is given no vertical or horizontal trajectory. Since the object skipped the later half of the routine for becoming airborne, it's obviously missed the variable switch to tell gravity that it is in fact airborne and no longer tethered to another object or resting on the ground, and gravity isn't applied at all.

EDIT: Mind, this might explain precisely why it happens, but not necessarily how. If this goes over anyone's head en-route to trying to determine the culprit, I'll just go ahead and say this: I second Magus' theory on phantom hits, although I don't think it has anything to do with concurrent non-phantoms aside from the final drop before it appears frozen.

 

[Jihnsius]

Forgive the double post, but it's the only way I can really clarify my thoughts. Putting a bit more thought onto the subject I think I actually have figured out exactly why this glitch and phantom hits occur. They aren't exactly two different effects, but both results of one awry conditional in the hit detection subroutine.

Imagine the subroutine for hit detection looks something like this:

Does an attack hitbox overlap an opponents hitbox?
If so:

do Damage calculation
do Special calculations
do Hitlag calculation
do Knockback, hitstun, trajectory calculation
end

For some reason in the special calculations function they added another conditional (though not worded precisely the same way) to reiterate the original conditionals (or at least similar) of the original routine, and in doing so created Phantom Hits. From here, if the new conditional is not met, not only is the function ended, but also the entire routine. In the special calculations function also exists the item holding check.
Is the opponent holding an item? Are conditions met to make that player drop that item? etc.

Somewhere in that special function is a conditional that not only creates phantom hits, but also creates this item freeze glitch as a double whammy. Refer to previous post as to exactly how the item freeze glitch comes about because of this.

 

[Jihnsius]

I've done around 50 phantom hits total with Marth's fsmash to Peach neutral with turnip in hand, doing many combinations of just about everything Peach can do aside from actually hitting Marth with the turnip and haven't managed to get the turnip to freeze. Surely one of those 50 phantoms would have triggered the item drop function if my theory was right, so I think I may have overanalyzed things. Any other ideas?

 

[`DNS`]

1) A vid of my Jiggs vs Ryoko's Peach on Mute City from 4-2006. GOOD
He pulls a turnip (the O_O looking one) with his back facing me while on the left side of the main platform, crouches with it for a bit as I move closer, then I pound while he shields from the crouch and does a backwards smash throw OoS, but the frame before it's released he gets hit by the pound and then he's still holding the turnip afterwards (if you were to get hit at the same time it's going to be released it still gets thrown).

As he goes behind me from the pound I double jump into a b-air which hits him around frame 4 of his double jump. He drops the turnip by being hit by the b-air and it is frozen. I'm pretty sure the turnip was never actually in the air between the time it was pulled and when it became glitched.

is this vid anywhere? it's not on mediafire anymore

 

[_KuyaSombreo_]

someone seriously needs to figure out what happened

 

[Awstintacious]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey4Y5aRlxnE check out this video where at 3:00, the peach gets shined then throws the turnip mid float and it sticks there. Then even stranger is later at 3:10, the red fox throws green fox into the turnip and it hits him and stays sticking there. Thought it would be relevant as GA melee had no clue.

 

[Rockenos]

^Sorry to contribute to a very old thread, but it doesn't seem like this was ever concluded properly soo....
It looks like there was just an ordinary turnip pull, maybe the glitch was triggered when peach was getting shined through her shield off the stage...? I can't figure it out.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I started a match with DoH one time, he pulled a turnip, and threw it.

It froze in the air.


I have no idea how this works. =(


Miss this thread and all its confusion LOL.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

i saw this a year ago, i think those looking for explaination should look for similarities to the black hole glitch.
i have had this happed in a match, turned into brawl
http://youtu.be/nzXJFVG5bcg
http://youtu.be/KSBJRP1cWZU
i think these are the only recordings of how it happens, almost looks random.

 

[Stevo]

strange.......

 

[Jihnsius]

Reading over this thread again I wish I had access to the code for Melee. I'm sure it's much simpler than anyone thinks.

 

[Teczer0]

Wow this thread brings back a lot of memories haha.

This was so funny when it happened

/reminiscing

 

[crismas]

Everything about your user info on the left is freaky... stop that.

 

[Kadano]

This seriously needs to get figured out.

 

[Strong Badam]

This happened with a not-stitch in Zenith doubles. DoH and Hbox vs someone (Alukard and DJ?)

 

[Kadano]

Yeah, exactly. Thanks! Here is the link for lazy readers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O_EB4LxxOk&t=11m51s

 

[EPsilon933]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzXJFVG5bcg
http://www.mediafire.com/download/8...tch,+60+fps+video+for+SCIENCE!,+shortened.avi

60 fps video to study, I guess? (I didn't read a single word in this thread. This has probably already been posted or whatever)

 

[Acryte]

Jihnsius' explanation reminds me of this glitch but obviously different.

It gets interrupted from its normal routine when it hits the pots (technically, when it hits the heart in the pot) and gets stuck.

 

[ant-d]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzXJFVG5bcg

http://www.mediafire.com/download/80k3i0rf0x64p00/Frozen turnip glitch, 60 fps video for SCIENCE!, shortened.avi

Although we do not know at which point the glitch is determined, here is what happens immediately before the turnip is frozen in the air:

Peach: Pull Turnip
Peach Wavedashing / dash dancing
Peach: Runs and shields
Sheik: Weak B-Air on Peach's shield
Sheik: Turns around and grabs Peach out of jump squat animation (jump out of shield)
Sheik: Grab pummel
Sheik: D-Throw
Peach: DI Away
Sheik: F-Air
The turnip is knocked out of Peach, by the F-Air, and immediately freezes in the air.

Seems somewhat suspicious that the stitch is often seen in matches where the turnip glitch occurs.

 

[AXE 09]

I also have this video from a very long time ago. I don't have the footage from right before the glitch happened unfortunately
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2eGUcnBBP8

 

[TerenceLau]

we seriously need a documentary for unsolved smash phenomenons.

 

[Tarv]

This is the coolest **** I've ever seen that had to do with a turnip.

 

[ant-d]

I wrote a script to have Peach pull 10 hours worth of turnips and none of them became randomly frozen. So it seems it isn't the result of internal pseudo-random mambo-jumbo.

Although the glitch could require 20 hours

 

[EPsilon933]

http://www.mediafire.com/?krslvqy4ol18qrs
http://youtu.be/XR9eZzb8VDI

More samples for analysis

 

[hectohertz]

I wrote a script to have Peach pull 10 hours worth of turnips and none of them became randomly frozen. So it seems it isn't the result of internal pseudo-random mambo-jumbo.

Although the glitch could require 20 hours

i'd like to do some testing, would you share that script?

 

[EPsilon933]

Maybe I get lucky with frozen turnips happening so often. Just subscribe to my alt channel where I dump random things if you want new samples to study
http://www.youtube.com/AlterKingZant

Newest video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXA83H4_QdQ

60 fps download
http://www.mediafire.com/?bdtgwvb258x2pb8

 

[AXE 09]

It definitely has something to do with Peach getting hit before she throws or lets go of the turnip. That happened in every vid I saw so far

 

[Silent Wolf]

this is nothing compared to what happened to me and bladewise. he threw a bomb, it stuck and i shot it point blank in his face with a laser. later on that match, i walked where the bomb was floating and got blown up by nothing lol.

 

[TheManaLord]

so.... armada doesnt know // hasnt had this happen a billion times?

 

[Armada]

Only one time actually.
It was in a friendly when me and Kou played at Internet Explorers place at the pre Apex 2013 stream.