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ROM 5 - Mew2King vs Unknown522

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Mew2King

King of the Mews
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Bunbun, how many times do I have to tell you that that stuff never happened. I'm part christian and I'm really, really scared of the concept of going to hell for eternity, so I do not like to do things that in my mind are "bad". Stealing is one of them, so i do not steal controllers or anything actually. Do you actually know anything about my money situation? SNES, Winterfest, ActiveGamers, Pound5, Revelations, and 2-3 other big tourneys that i don't remember off the top of my head still owe me a grand total of about 8,000 dollars. If I actually always got paid out what I rightfully won instead of being scammed all the time, I would have had a lot more money and not HAVE to ask for people to pay for my travel (which has only been done twice in my life iirc). Then I am also owed like 6k from loans i gave out to people because the way I was raised was to always help others when they were in need, and since i had money and they didn't i kept lending them out the money. I have a notepad on my desktop of who I am owed from everyone but honestly I doubt I'll ever see that back. I pretty much learned, the hard way, how the real world works.

Kingfunk - I still don't understand. It gives more time for both players to improve themselves. We were also both using borrowed controllers (that we both had to return) so it was especially important then. I only see that as a good thing tbh. In fact I wish there was a rule that in later bracket matches players could warm up for a few minutes.
 

Boat Mode

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These guys play all day every tournament. If you're ****ing around for an hour before your set, thats your fault.

1 minute is MORE than generous for a button check. Warmups are ********.
 

LivewiresXe

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It's fine to want to be liked and to want people to get along with you M2K, but like I said before the amount of winnings that you should feel you owe people barring that person paying for your transportation (and in which case if you can't afford a ride there and back, you probably shouldn't go) or your entry fee (same deal barring something last minute) is $0. I can assure you other FGC players don't feel compelled, expected, or like they owe their opponents or random other people part of their winnings.

As for being worried about going to hell, unless you're really bad we all just wind up on "life reset" after we die anyway.
 

Achilles1515

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Do you even realize how stupid what it is you are saying? Did you even care about how Unknown felt at the time? He was riding on some momentum and you think it's alright for you to take it COMPLETELY away from him by doing some silly warmup IN THE MIDDLE OF A SET?
Are you talking about his warmup before the "real" game 5? They had just taken away his win dude....and what momentum did Unknown have after losing the "fraud" game 5?

Maybe I missed a warmup somewhere....rofl there were too many to count
 

pikmin.org

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After watching the stream yesterday, I took the liberty of asking a few top players what they thought about the events that transpired and whether it would affect Smash's chance at being in EVO:

Ken - "I don't know man. It could go either way."

Mango - "Sandbagging? I can't imagine any top player doing that, ever."

Armada - "GAY!"
 

LivewiresXe

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I know Livewires, I can agree. I was just explaining why, in my mind, it has been hard to grasp how splitting is considered bad when 5 years ago this was the exact opposite. I always had to do it to maintain friendships, which is something i valued.

I get that times are different now than 5 years ago, I just feel that putting a monetary value on friendships is erroneous. If you've truly decided to stop splitting money, then that should in no way make you feel like you're valuing your true friendships less and if they're your actual friends they should be sympathetic and not feel you are either.
 

Mahie

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I know Livewires, I can agree. I was just explaining why, in my mind, it has been hard to grasp how splitting is considered bad when 5 years ago this was the exact opposite. I always had to do it to maintain friendships, which is something i valued.
You'd think after the MLG drama you'd have understood something was wrong with it, regardless of whether it was justified or not, they deemed it legit enough a reason to ban you and smash out of the circuit. Doesn't that say something ?
 

outofphase

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i, for one, definitely dont want you to be banned, but my opinion doesnt mean much lol. plus i would like to see you play angry instead of get depressed. when see you have that emotion in it, i really think you can beat anybody. you were the first player i ever saw play that made my jaw drop and a huge part of why i got into smash. i think part of that is why people are so upset, i think alot of people are in the same boat as me.
 

LivewiresXe

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After watching the stream yesterday, I took the liberty of asking a few top players what they thought about the events that transpired and whether it would affect Smash's chance at being in EVO:

Ken - "I don't know man. It could go either way."

Mango - "Sandbagging? I can't imagine any top player doing that, ever."

Armada - "GAY!"


Off topic, but I kinda thought Ken didn't keep in touch with Smash or with many Smash players that weren't Isaih anymore and that he kept more in touch with Crystal/Randy/Matty.
 

Mahie

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Off topic, but I kinda thought Ken didn't keep in touch with Smash or with many Smash players that weren't Isaih anymore and that he kept more in touch with Crystal/Randy/Matty.
He's just quoting Ken's commentary from last week @ Kings of Cali.
 

Espy Rose

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I know you well enough to believe you on that part. I don't know why others thought you were trying to "cheat" and such.
Probably because of his track record. I'd think it wouldn't be too difficult to antagonize him, given his infamous histories with both Melee and Brawl.

You and I are from a different time in the game's life span. Splitting was a common practice for people like us because at the time, money got in the way of friendship. You describe this in a vague way, but that's the core of it. The good players didn't get to play each other often and we didn't have videos to study each other with, so every set was a rare and fateful encounter that could be enjoyed more without an additional chance to lose a few thousand dollars.

The community is no longer about this high level of mutual respect. We don't play for thousands anymore, but hundreds. We don't play in the name of friendship, but rather stiff competition. The game is not about the players so much as it is for stream viewers or "potential sponsors" that will never appear.

I disagree with this shift of value, but I suppose that's a sign of my age within the community.
Don't treat yourselves like ancient relics from some lost time, or whatever it is you're trying to justify here. If you need to change your ways to stay in good standing with the community, then do it. You owe it to the community because without them, the top players here would be nothing more than a group of friends playing another video game at home.

All of this talk about this community not being about respect and friendship at the pinnacle of its competitive nature is absurd, too. Those two aspects still keep the community together. However, the definitions of those two concepts vary between communities. After reading your post, it seems like the reason you feel the way you do is because you don't want to change alongside them.

Why continue to irritate or disrespect the populous at large just because of some selfish desire to keep hold of some outdated ideal?

I do get mad about my controller a lot. what is wrong with that? It's the truth. I truely do believe having a good controller matters a lot if you are a really technical player. I'm not going to lie and say otherwise if this is not what I actually believe. The controller was actually light shielding a lot whenever I would roll or wavedash and it would happen randomly, but most of the day that wasn't happening. Am i not supposed to be mad about that? Controller matters a lot dude.
Have a single controller and keep it. Make sure to take good care of it, do NOT let it out of your sight at events, and don't lose it.

Seriously, I've known people who have had the same controller for more than seven years or so, and have kept them in great shape. Seldom do they have a problem with their own controllers that can't be solved with a quick 'X+Y+Start' input.

Controller johns aren't legitimate for a person who is constantly borrowing and losing them. :applejack:
 

Mew2King

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You'd think after the MLG drama you'd have understood something was wrong with it, regardless of whether it was justified or not, they deemed it legit enough a reason to ban you and smash out of the circuit. Doesn't that say something ?
See as far as that goes, i honestly think they just wanted to use me as a scapegoat to make their decision look better, since i had already known from an inside source that mlg wasn't going to be around the next year no matter how many entrants there was at dallas, because of not being allowed to legally stream their event by Nintendo. The stream is where they make a large bulk of their money, but Nintendo wouldn't give them the legal rights. I was EXTREMELY depressed from that since I was by far in my brawl prime then (perfect controller, constantly in practice and thinking of strats, etc), but I couldn't get them to change their mind. I flew to Dallas anyway to try to help my friends Lee/Ally/Tyrant do better (unless they were fighting each other then i said nothing) by giving them practice or coaching when needed even though only tyrant really benefitted from this at all (vs x and esam). I literally just bought a plane ticket to fly there JUST to see if i could help my friends make more money.

However, with that said, it's still true that over past 2 years i should have been taking it more seriously and to just stop doing it. I hate saying no to people though, so when i sit in the grand finals and people ask to split, i almost always say yes so that they wouldn't be mad at me and also to help them (but more so the first reason than the 2nd even though it's both).
 

Zankoku

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However, with that said, it's still true that over past 2 years i should have been taking it more seriously and to just stop doing it. I hate saying no to people though, so when i sit in the grand finals and people ask to split, i almost always say yes so that they wouldn't be mad at me and also to help them (but more so the first reason than the 2nd even though it's both).
Who asked to split at RoM?
 

KrIsP!

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Yeah, I'm with shrouded this wasn't as bad as people make it out to be, just disappointing that it happened and turned to ****. The splitting wasn't 'let's take the money and run', it was ' I'm not into this but I'm being forced to play so wanna not worry about the money since we all feel kind of ****ty and just play?'. At least that's what I'm taking, yes it's stupid and yes, it should stop but this M2K grilling is a bit much.

TBH i'm most sad for Hax who would have faced Eggm and had a chance at breaking the 5th place wall during the last national of 2012 (Year of the Falcon?)

Still though, 2 minutes max warm up seems fair. You took 6 minutes at one point and I don't think getting sued to the tv was that hard having played on it all day.

Edit: I get M2K wants his money, gotta be all tax collector on that ****...but did you pay prog back then dollar you owed him for entrance? :troll:
 

Espy Rose

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As far as warm ups are considered, this all occurred in the top three, right?
Out of a large, national leveled tournament, where said top three have been playing quite a handful of other high leveled players?

Am I the only one who finds it silly to need a 'warm up' that far into the bracket?
The only way I can understand such a thing is if it were to adjust to the TV itself. Button checks, or whatever else they test during those times seems somewhat inexcusable by that point. :applejack:
 

Mahie

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See as far as that goes, i honestly think they just wanted to use me as a scapegoat to make their decision look better, since i had already known from an inside source that mlg wasn't going to be around the next year no matter how many entrants there was at dallas, because of not being allowed to legally stream their event by Nintendo. The stream is where they make a large bulk of their money, but Nintendo wouldn't give them the legal rights.

However, with that said, it's still true that over past 2 years i should have been taking it more seriously and to just stop doing it. I hate saying no to people though, so when i sit in the grand finals and people ask to split, i almost always say yes so that they wouldn't be mad at me and also to help them (but more so the first reason than the 2nd even though it's both).
That doesn't matter M2K. They wouldn't have banned you over breathing too fast, or eating a ham sandwich, but they thought splitting was enough to justify their decision, even if that was not the real reason behind it, it was enough to justify it.

That was my point.
 

Mew2King

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TBH i'm most sad for Hax who would have faced Eggm and had a chance at breaking the 5th place wall during the last national of 2012 (Year of the Falcon?)
i TOLD hax I would let him go on, and he said he wanted to play me instead, so i played him. He was the main reason I even finished the tourney and tried to win it. My mindset and emotions at that point were completely ****ed.
 

Stevo

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I think Mew2king is being pretty reasonable here. He says he won't split anymore.
If I had to re-do a 5th game that I won and ended up losing I would be in a bad mood too.

It does seem like drama follows M2K wherever he goes, though....

However, I think it was a whole bunch of things that led to this debacle. Many people are to blame, and M2K has already accepted some of it. (I'm not going to comment on whether or not he should take more of the blame)
 

KrIsP!

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Are you talking about his warmup before the "real" game 5? They had just taken away his win dude....and what momentum did Unknown have after losing the "fraud" game 5?

Maybe I missed a warmup somewhere....rofl there were too many to count
No man, on FoD game 4 Unknown was going in deeeeeppp without missing a beat and then they did a 5 minute warm up where unknown stood there cause...what the **** kind of warm up do you need? His adrenaline was gone, it's like when a player in any sport gets injured and walks off super slowly in the middle of a grand play. It's strategy but we shouldn't allow it before the last game, at most you get to john about controller problem and reset it before the last match.
 

Mew2King

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Both our controllers were messing up though to be honest. Do you think we are lying? I believe him when he says he was having controller problems because the skill gaps he has (sometimes really bad sometimes really good) is proof of it. Mine kept light shielding randomly, especially after a wavedash or roll or L-cancel(R-cancel actually for me). I actually lost that game cuz of it on the last easy edge guard i had but it light shielded instead, but it probably lost him games too.

We also both had to return the controllers to their owners after the tourney, we don't have our own (well we do but none that are up to our standards of what we need to play at our bests or close to it since we are both about being frame-perfect with a lot of things).
 

KrIsP!

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i TOLD hax I would let him go on, and he said he wanted to play me instead, so i played him. He was the main reason I even finished the tourney and tried to win it. My mindset and emotions at that point were completely ****ed.
Oh I know, I don't blame you for that but it's not so glorious to put an end to the whole Falcon at a national thing on a forfeit. I'm honestly tired of people grilling you at this point though I don't agree with what you did.
and the prog thing was a joke, I'm not trying to antagonize you on that.

(above)I'll believe you on that because I'm actually feeling bad for all this hate. You apologized I think people need to cool it.
 

rjgbadger

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the most disappointing mistake-alukard for the game 5 replay. if they have to replay a game they should replay the entire set(still very ghey tho)

the players should have kept the split secret, split after the tournament was over, or not split at all
the latest being the most correct decision

shoutouts to mew2king
dont quit smash
get a new controller that works, buy a cube and disc and go to town on everyone
 

outofphase

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ya dont feel the need to keep explaining yourself m2k. if you want to thats cool, but youve already explained your side of things
 

Masmasher@

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lol alukard made a great point.
i watch big 2 every week and chris g wins everyweek (going on 14 now lol).
until now i did not know that he split with rayray.
you know why....
cause they dont make it so ****ing obvious...
splitting has gone on forever but just play the ****ing match out...
dont you want to see how you stack up with you opponent this upcoming time?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Don't treat yourselves like ancient relics from some lost time, or whatever it is you're trying to justify here. If you need to change your ways to stay in good standing with the community, then do it. You owe it to the community because without them, the top players here would be nothing more than a group of friends playing another video game at home.

All of this talk about this community not being about respect and friendship at the pinnacle of its competitive nature is absurd, too. Those two aspects still keep the community together. However, the definitions of those two concepts vary between communities. After reading your post, it seems like the reason you feel the way you do is because you don't want to change alongside them.

Why continue to irritate or disrespect the populous at large just because of some selfish desire to keep hold of some outdated ideal?
I would rather the game be friends playing at home. I support the idea of this game being for the players over third-party un-involved bystanders. This game is for us because we play it. If you disagree with this stance, it's on you to be good enough of a player to make it not happen. I refuse to implement caveats into our rule sets to punish our players for doing what their skill allows them to do in a pre-defined system.

The smash tournaments are not about "owing" anything to anyone. Why would I pay $10 to enter a tournament to "owe" somebody anything? That's simply stupid. When you pay your money to enter a tournament, you pay for your chance to win more money within a pre-defined set of rules. THATS ALL. You don't pay to give spectators a good show, you don't pay to be punished later for doing something like splitting that isn't even against the tournament rules.

This community is not about friendship or respect. If the witch-hunts for splitting that never occurred, baseless attacks on the players or tournament hosts, or the flaming on ME for protecting them didn't make that obvious, you're not paying attention. Your post is not about community or respect. Bashing Jason for his sincere opinion is not about community or respect. Forcing players to "play seriously" is not about community or respect. This whole debacle is largely a failure to see Mew2King and Unknown as "the community".
 

sidefx

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straight up objective opinion. got no interest in beef with anyone so this is strictly an objective pov.

1. Proper seeding. If Unknown and KK were seeded properly on different sides of the bracket, the whole controversy about floating players (Eggm and Unknown) from different sides of the bracket to avoid playing each other would be squashed. A lot of the problems that are being brought up seem to have 2-3 previous problems that people are overlooking. (all parties involved were gave the ok to do so, but it still can be prevented by properly seeding in the first place)

2. Unknown should have not received a second chance at game 5. It was his duty to look up the rules, flag someone down, contest it, BEFORE game 5 was played. NOT AFTER. M2K did a similar thing at Genesis 1 when he lost to Armada in a BO3 set, when it was supposed to be a BO5. Both players played out the set thinking it was a BO3. M2K found out it was supposed to be a BO5 AFTER playing, and demanded to finish the set. I said **** no. That is your fault, (both players faults) for not knowing the rules when previously it was stated it was supposed to be a BO5 in winners semis. There should be zero reason for allowing Unknown to play the match a second time due to his inability (and M2K's) to read and comprehend the rule set.

3. Splitting happens. Its happens now, its happened in the past, and will continue to happen in the future. The only thing that differs is (Umbreon also mentioned this) is that our community has changed from what it was to what it is now. Back then splitting was the "honorable" thing to do if it was someone from out of state in the finals. No one saw each other as much as they do in todays community. We had no streams, no facebook to constantly talk to each other all the time, so things were very casual and lax compared to today. You split today, youre also giving a fat **** you to everyone in attendance, and more importantly everyone on the stream for sitting and watching patiently to see the finals all weekend. If you want to split, do it after the tournament.

Theres no way anyone can blame one person for what went down. I personally believe everyone had a piece of the blame to share. All of this could have been prevented with a little more knowledge of the ruleset that you all have been accustomed to for the last 6-10 years, a little bit more rigidness in applying and standing firm on the rule set.

Also warming up/button checking for 5 minutes midset isnt cool at all. I remember Lunin used to do that in our Norcal locals and he got a lot of **** for it, BUT it technically wasnt directly against the rules, only vaguely and ambiguously.

Any action that can prevent the game from continuing (i.e., Ice Climbers’ Freeze Glitch or Mewtwo’s Soul Stunner., etc.) will result in a forfeit of that match for the player that initiated the action. You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects.

Modified Dave’s Stupid Rule: No player can counter pick the stage he or she last won on unless agreed upon by both players.

The act of stalling is banned: stalling is intentionally making the game unplayable: Such as continuing infinite’s (wobbling/blizzobbling) past 300%, and reaching a position that your opponent can never reach you. Peach’s wall-bombing, or Jigglypuff’s rising pound can be only be used as recovery tactics.
To me this is considered stalling, and grounds for DQ. To others it might not be as simple since the rules in question refer to activities that take place DURING game play of the set, and not in between.

This is why these problems exist imo. People dont read the rules and then when they do its all subject to interpretation and twisted to fit the mold of the persons argument.

Regardless, this isnt what smash is about to me. I was iffy about doing another Genesis 3 next summer but im pretty sure this pushed me over the fence, just so i can be a part of showing what smash is actually all about.

M2K realizes his mistakes, and thats that. Im not saying give him a second chance, or a third or whatever else you all want from him, but just acknowledge he isnt the only person to blame in this ordeal.


/rant


edit: beyond all this crap, rom5 was pretty sick to watch on the stream. SICK sets and SICK hype. good **** alu
 

Mew2King

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I REALLY don't see how people can think I would try to cheat someone when I LET THEM MAKE THE BRACKET HARDER FOR ME SO THE CANADIANS WOULDNT HAVE TO FIGHT EACH OTHER IN WINNERS SEMIS

Seriously guys, can many of you not understand this?

i WILLINGLY let alukard change the bracket to make it harder for me when he came up to me and asked me if it was okay to do so, knowing full well it would disadvantage myself greatly. I was thinking about what would be for the greater good. If I was thinking of only myself (which to be honest, I am HIGHLY considering doing next time), I would have not allowed that to happen, and taken the much easier path for me to get to winners finals.
 

LivewiresXe

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I think Umbreon completely missed the point. M2K and Unknown are not "The Community". They're TWO GUYS who happen to be IN "The Community". Just as John Cena is not "The WWE", he's one guy on the WWE roster, just as even Anderson Silva or GSP are just "one guy" who fight for the UFC. NOBODY in the community is "bigger than the community itself". Nobody.
 

JPOBS

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I think th tournament results should be amended as follows.

1. Hax
2. eggm
3. Scar
4. OTG
5. SepirothKen

Alu, please see that the appropriate funds are distributed to these worthy players.
 

Aber

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Sooooooo many things went wrong here with multiple people to blame:

The first issue is whether M2k was allowed to go back to FD for a CP. Although he was not, it makes no sense how the ****ing match was even played.....Cactuar made a point to say in front of the entire venue that he believed the counterpick to be illegal, yet Unknown+the entire venue let the Game 5 be played on on Final Destination without questioning it. Once the match was played, it was played/done/over period. Unknown (and I guess M2k) should've right then and there confirmed/denied whether the counterpick was legal, and alukard should've been TOing his tournament (something he fails to acknowledge while he looks for sympathy/appears a victim). YET, the game was played out by unknown and m2k as a legit game 5. At that point, with unknown NOT refuting it, but playing, the set is over.

OK, even at this point, the tournament can still be salvaged, as unknown wins the replay and makes it to winners finals. Yet unknown quits and forfeits mid-game 1 because what? Controller johns? Playing KK? You're in winners finals of ****ing RoM with like 4k ppl watching on stream dude grow some balls and play your damn matches after you got what you wanted. Playing it out would have actually set up a great LF/GF no matter what....And if it's unknown/KK grand finals then w/e yea go ahead and split then.........I honestly see KirbyKaze as the biggest victim here. He had every intention of playing the tournament out like it should've been played from what it seemed


P.S. : Wish PP had been there to set this ending straight....His competitive drive is unmatched
 

Xyzz

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Shoutouts to Hax being a man and demanding a real set with m2k instead of taking the easy default win by forfeit.

everything else in here is just dumb.
Sure, not getting a real GF is disappointing for the fans (I'm kinda happy I was so tired not even Scar vs Hax could keep me awake and I just went to bed during their set instead of waiting for the later matches to happen :D), but nobody is entitled to getting any of that. If players don't want to try their hardest, it's highly unenforcable to make them do it... :x
 

Divinokage

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Anderson Silva which is the best champion in the world got almost banned from the UFC for being a ***** in a fight. I mean when you have a lot of attention, you have to show the example. I'm saying the times are definitely different now and everyone needs to change for the better. There was NO WAY to know back in the day if someone cheated or played badly, all you had was ****ty videos and maybe a few words from dozens of people.

And I KNOW smash isn't the UFC but the comparison is relevant, when cameras are rolling, you need to put it on!
 
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