Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[GoodGrief741]

In the three weeks since I said I'd start doing calcs on Saturdays I have yet to post one on a Saturday. Go me

Calcs!

Bandana Dee
14.10% Chance - 86.50% Want
I. 55.58% - 82.48% (pre-release)
II. 8.88% - 66.02% (post-E3 2019)
III. 21.70% - 74.41% (post-Byleth)
IV. 38.63% - 72.49% (post-Min Min)
V. 17.86% - 73.07% (post-Sephiroth)
The winner of predictions was DanganZilla5 with a precise 15.00%
With that score Bandana Dee becomes the second most wanted character ever, behind reigning champion Phoenix Wright!

Kiryu
5.44% Chance - 78.00% Want
The last time we rated him was way back in early 2020, in the aftermath of Byleth's reveal. Back then he got 38.46% chance and 66.17% want. Clearly he wasn't the frontrunner he was perceived as back then, considering we recently rated 5 Sega candidates that now rank higher than him.
The winner of predictions was BowserKing with the lowest prediction of the day, 5.00%
Kiryu, once the most likely fighter, now relinquishes his place to Lara Croft. Technically the fighter with the highest chance rating is Master Hand, but that was a joke rating that happened to coincide with the leak that Master Hand had a playable section in WoL, so it doesn't really count.
Kiryu is also the fifth most wanted third party.

Tetra
3.83% Chance - 79.63% Want
The winners of predictions were Golden Icarus and Sari with a precise 6.00%
In a shocking turn of events, Tetra is now the fourth most wanted character, and second most wanted first party. Not bad for a character most cited as having low demand!

Senator Armstrong
0.67% Chance - 27.50% Want
The winner of predictions was once again the lowest of them all, this time it's waddledeeonredyoshi with 0.80%

Tetra and Armstrong join the Less Likely Than Goku club.

Spoiler: Extra noms

3BitSaurus 5
Artix 15
Awakining 5
BowserKing 5
Dan Quixote 10
DanganZilla5 5
DaUsername 217
Delzethin 5
Golden Icarus 5
Inue Houji 74
Laniv 5
Mr. MR 75
Nemuresu 10
Ninjaed 20
Perkilator 5
Ridrool64 25
Sari 5
SKX31 55
Troykv 15
waddledeeonredyoshi 5
Wunderwaft 5

 

[NintenRob]

Nominate Lugia x5.

Satisfied seeing Bandana Dee with such a high want score.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

36 hours since last post, can the day end?

 

[Sari]

36 hours since last post, can the day end?

I was holding off since there were rumors of a Direct happening soon and I didn't want to risk starting a day in the middle of one. Seems we're in the clear now for this week.

Day over.

Rate Ratchet & Clank & Boss: Rayquaza

Predict Giygas & Stage: Bowser's Castle

Megadoomer

-----

Music for today:

Ratchet & Clank

Spoiler: Ratchet & Clank Music

Rayquaza

Spoiler: Rayquaza Music

 

[DanganZilla5]

The cool as **** flying dragon/snake thing

Chance: 0%

Nah bro. The DLC has been quite consistent thus far and we haven't gotten any new bosses since the base game. That hasn't changed and with us being so close to the end I do not see that fact changing at all. If we miraculously get more DLC in the future I expect it to be either a bonus character or a stage pack more than anything else.

Want: 100%

Which is a shame because they brought back all the Subspace bosses except for Rayquaza and Porky. That is flabbergasting to me. I'm not crazy for more boss fights but for the sake of this being the ultimate Smash game, those two really should have returned as bosses. When it comes to Rayquaza, that was a pretty fun fight. And in general, Rayquaza is just a really, really cool Pokemon. It's a flying snake that shoots hyper beams, how can you not like that? I would happily throw a few dollars at the Smash team to have this boss fight return.

_______________________________

That's so Ratchet

Chance: 1%

I get that Sony has slowly been opening up to working with the other big two but I'm still skeptical of a character from them happening. Banjo happened mainly because Microsoft and Nintendo were very buddy-buddy and there were plans for Xbox games to arrive on the Switch, so it was the perfect recipe for Microsoft characters to happen. Sony on the other hand has barely any connections with Nintendo at all. I could see them maybe getting a character next game if they open up more, but for now I really don't think this will happen. Not to mention Ratchet and Clank don't have nearly Banjo-levels of demand.

Their main advantage is that if Nintendo for some reason did approach Sony, they are one of the primary candidates. The duo have been a staple of not just PlayStation, but also platformers ever since the 6th gen consoles. The original game was innovative for combining the platforming and shoot em up genres and the series has remained strong, becoming one of Sony's flagships I.Ps. Plus it's very easy to envision a moveset for them.

Want: 80%

I would love to be wrong though. Anyone who has played a Ratchet and Clank game knows how much weaponry these two pack. Like seriously they could maybe come up with 10 different movesets for these two. It's insane. I would love to see what the Smash team can come up with and other than that, the Ratchet and Clank games are really good. Good music, vibrant art styles, and likable characters.

Predictions:
Giygas - 4%
Stage: Bowser's Castle - 2%


Noms: Sam Fisher x25 (Using extra noms)

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Boss: Rayquaza
Chance: 0.2%
We’re not just rating the addition on a new mode here, we’re rating that mode to be boss-related and we’re then rating the possibility that this boss-related mode sees the return of a boss not in Ultimate. Considering the first pre-requisite has already been soft-deconfirmed, I don’t really see this very brightly.

Want: 100%
Hey, new mode’s a new mode.

Richard and Clark
Chance: 2%
Sony’s not specifically the most likely distributor of new characters right now and then there’s the question of that character being Ratchet and Clank. Without the sheer demand of Banjo and the being-the-most-selling-game-iness of The Craft, the gateway to Sony‘s crafty duo is wanting to go out with a bang and climbing the corporate ladder to do so.

Want: 70%
I like their designs, I hear they’re a bit explosive and shooty which always has the fun factor at its side which has been a bit lacking. They‘d satisfy the “go bigger and better” part of Smash speculation whereas I’d just be delighted they went character-first for once and didn’t very transparently go on the prowl for the most advantageous IP to then design a fighter around.

Noms go to Off the Hook

Giygas: 2.22%
Bowser’s Castle: 1.23%

 

[Yiptap]

Abstain
Noms: Omori x 5

 

[BowserKing]

Boss: Rayquaza
Chance: 5%. The 5% is for the sequel. Given that World for Light brought back the Galleom boss fight, I was hoping they make Rayquaza a boss again. For the sequels, the chance would be increased to 5% instead of 0%.
Want: 100%. I defiantly want Rayquaza to return as a boss. Rayquaza is one of the best Legendary Pokémon and seeing it as a boss, like in Subspace would be hype worthy. Overall, I totally support Rayquaza returning as a boss.

Ratchet and Clank
Chance: 5%. Given that they are owned by Sony, their chance is quite low, but compared to most Sony characters, they are rather high. With one slot left, it would be a tight spot for them.
Want: 65%. They would be fun characters to play as, and I can see them in a match with Fox, Falco, R.O.B and Samus in a match. Overall, they would make good Smash Bros reps.
Prediction: Giygas (5%) and Stage: Bowser’s Castle (5%)
Noms: 5 for Lugia and 5 for Echo: Bowser

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Boss: Rayquaza

Chance: 0% - The DLC has yet to give us any extra features such as bosses or assists, all packs featuring their character, stage, music, and spirit board. Sakurai has surprised us with other modes in free updates such as Home Run Contest, but I think this is it for bosses, especially Rayquaza. Sephiroth and his showcase were heavily boss-themed, and he even received a boss rush as his classic mode. If we were getting more bosses, then would've been the time to introduce said bosses for Sephiroth's update. But that came and went with nothing. Furthermore, while we did see bosses brought back, only Brawl's original bosses returned. Bosses from existing franchises either received another role (playable Ridley, Petey in Piranha Plant's final Smash) or were absent entirely (Rayquaza, Porky). With one character left and no sign of content updates past FP11 (along with clear evidence that development is winding down), I can confidently give Ray a 0% chance.

Want: 100% - What's not to love about more content? There's basically no reason NOT to bring back the remaining bosses (I really don't think Porky's the last character) Furthermore, I love Pokemon, and Rayquaza's a fantastic design with some super neat abilities! He was my favorite boss in Brawl, and the first boss I successfully trophy'd when I was younger, so there's a lot of sentimental value, too. Give him a cool space or tower arena to fight him in and he'd be perfect!


Ratchet and Clank

Chance: 0.1% - Leaving the possibility open since Sony has become a little more open to cooperation with everyone else. However, I still think being a Sony character is still a nail in the coffin, especially for this game. Now, if Nintendo WERE to go to Sony, who would they choose If they let Sakurai take a pick I can see him going for this iconic duo! But if Nintendo were to choose? They'd likely go for the big guns. Which basically means Kratos! Now, Nintendo has subverted our expectations with Banjo-Kazooie and Steve before Master Chief, but in this regard I don't see lightning striking twice. Still, even with a lack of fan demand, the merit is there, so I can see them potentially pulling an upset in a future title.

Want: 30% - I've never played their games so I don't have much of an opinion on them. My memories of them for whatever reason tend to blend in with Jack & Daxter and Sly Cooper for some reason, the "Playstation Animals" gang that I never played as a kid. However, if Sony were to open up more I'd be open to seeing them. From what I've seen of their abilities they'd be very unique, and no doubt a duo character like this would be more than feasible in a future title! I can definitely see myself supporting them over someone like Kratos (though not as much as Parappa!).


Nominations:
DJ Octavio x10
Captain Charlie x10

Predictions:
Giygas - 1.23% - I can see a lot of people saying he'd be more suited for a boss. A weird choice, even by Earthbound standards.
Stage: Bowser's Castle - 1.84% - Definitely seeing it for a future game, but we have yet to get any non-Challenger-Pack-tied DLC stages this cycle, so the confidence won't be there.

 

[GoodGrief741]

A new boss added 3 years after release

Chance: 0%
We know no new modes are being added. All of the DLC has come in two formats: the Challenger Pack and the Spirit Event. Neither comes with bosses. I don't think we'll get any Pokemon content either so no "this could come with the inevitable Gen 8 Pokemon!" There is no boss rush mode in the game. The only ways to fight bosses is to replay WoL (a mode that hasn't been modified in any way since release) and to play Classic as Sephiroth (which can't be modified with new DLC and has no room for another boss anyway). There is no reason to add new bosses to the game. ****, even if they wanted to add an old Brawl boss they'd probably add Porky first given the demand. Simply put this is impossible.

Want: 100%
Sure why not? It's new content. It was a great boss fight in Brawl.

A Sony rep

Chance: 0%
Sony and Nintendo are behaving like competitors do. It's unlikely that they'd even sit down to discuss a Smash character. Even if they did, it's more likely that the fighter chosen would be Kratos or Aloy. You know, the characters that Sony allowed to be on Nintendo consoles?

I often see people say that they make the most sense out of Sony's stable of characters for Smash. I dunno, that always seemed kinda reductive to me. Just because they're cartoony doesn't make them a better fit. Does it really seem on-brand for Nintendo to put characters with games called Up Your Arsenal and Size Matters in their crossover? I'd say they're on equal ground with Sony's other stuff.

Either way, having a Sony character in Smash is such a huge deal there's absolutely no way it wouldn't be at a big event like E3. FP11 is not the place for them.

Want: 75%
If you ask me who should be chosen, I'd say Kratos. If you ask me who I want, I'd say Nathan Drake. But hey, these two are alright in my book. Their games are great (really itching to get my hands on Rift Apart), they're iconic and lovable characters, and Playstation Allstars proved they can totally work in the genre.

Noms: Sukapon
Giygas prediction: 6.45%
Bowser Castle prediction: 3.70%

 

[GoodGrief741]

Spoiler: Nominations post-Ori/Gunvolt pre-Ratchet & Clank/Boss: Rayquaza

Concept: Rhythm Heaven rep x250
DJ Octavio x215
Concept: Spirit Events continue after the Fighter Pass x215
Soma Cruz x187
Concept: Destroy All Humans content x180
Echo (Bowser) x168
Magolor x165
E.M.M.I. x155
Fulgore x152
Boss: Ender Dragon x143
Mii Costume: Alex Kidd x138
Mii Costume: Monika x135
Off The Hook x130
Stage: Tetris x125

150 - 101

D.Va x115
[Rerate] Gene x110
[Rerate] Eggman x107
Concept: Crazy Taxi character x105
[Rerate] Agumon x105

100 - 51

Lugia x95
Legends Trainer x90
Concept: Next game is not a reboot x85
[Rerate] Sora x83
Concept: Darksiders rep x80
Sam Fisher x80
Concept: More ATs as one new item x75
Dwight Fairfield (Dead by Daylight) x75
Concept: Rocket League rep x75
Concept: SNES-era Final Fantasy rep x75
Echo (Olimar) x66
[Rerate] Zhao Yun x65
Ghirahim x60
Vi (Bug Fables) x55
Echo: Zeraora (Lucario) x55
[Rerate] Jin Kazama x55
Jin Sakai x55

50 - 25

Plague Knight x50
Springtrap x50
Joe Random (MLB: The Show) x45
Mii Costume: Zagreus x40
Captain Charlie (Pikmin) x40
Sukapon x40
Filia (Skullgirls) x31
Omori x30
Concept: Large and Normal Final Destination made into separate stages x25

Under 25

Regigigas x20
[Rerate] Metal Sonic x20
Concept: Bonus Fighter x20
Donbe and Hikari x20
[Rerate] Spyro x20
Nabbit x20
[Rerate] Earthworm Jim x16
Yarn Yoshi x15
[Rerate] Shovel Knight x15
Echo: Ms. Pac-Man x15
[Rerate] Ezio Auditore da Firenze x15
Concept: Bonus Stages to fill out the stage select screen x15
Mii Costume: Scorpion x15
Tetris x10
Slash Kamei (Snowboard Kids) x10
Jesse Faden x10
Infernape x10
[Rerate] Gex x10
[Rerate] Concept: Echo Fighters Pass x10
[Rerate] Q*Bert x10
[Rerate] Ryu Hayabusa x10
Mii Costume: Among Us x10
[Rerate] Brian x7
Concept: Rocket League content x5
[Rerate] Thrall x5
[Rerate] Lara Croft x5
Stage: Tetris 99 x5
Concept: Raizing shmup rep x5
Concept: KOS-MOS with T-elos alt x5
[Rerate] Master Hand x5
[Rerate] Elma x5
Siris (Infinity Blade) x5
Concept: Tsukihime rep x5
Concept: Challenger Pack with more than 15 spirits x5
Arcueid Brunestud (Tsukihime) x5
Kraid x5
Firebrand x1

Soma Cruz dashes past Destroy All Humans content to take fourth place. Off The Hook dance past Stage: Tetris into thirteenth place.

Agumon evolves past 100 noms.

Sukapon fights past 25 noms.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Tiduslaugh.mp4 but with guns

Chance: 1% Unpopular opinion but I don't think a Sony character is flatout impossible, Nintendo and Microsoft already got together for 2 characters and they still consider each other competition in the overall industry, with Nintendo even getting buddy buddy enough to allow crossplay which made it possible to play as Kratos on the Switch and Aloy appearing on the Switch in the Genshin Impact collab, hell, some Sony games have even gotten on PC in recent years too and I think this just shows it's foolish to write the entire thing off as impossible as Sony seems to have changed their stance significantly after the whole Fortnite console locking shenanigans. That being said, I still wouldn't call it likely

Want: 70% Aight so let me start this by saying I haven't touched this franchise in a literal decade, but watching a friend play the game based on the movie based on the game (Damn what the ****) and it reminded me of what I liked back when I played the first game all those years despite not finishing it. I can easily see Ratchet being a gunner for obvious reasons but these two have such a stupidly large amount of crazy weapons that it begs the question of how anyone wouldn't be even slightly curious about the possibility of the duo in Smash, like, these ****ers can force you to boogie or turn you into sheep, there's so much to imagine that I can't help but give a high score.

Rayquaza boss

Chance: 0% lmao no way in hell are we getting anything this intricate at this point

Want: 70% I loved the boss fights in SSE and Rayquaza's one of my favourites, I felt so cool when reflecting his big laser ball attack cause the cutscene showed it off and as the years have gone, we got a new toy for Rayquaza, the oh so Anything Goes Mega form which can make the boss fight more elaborate, and while we got the Victory Road theme, DLC would give me the hope it'd use Rayquaza's ORAS theme, a melody which I always loved for it's menacing atmosphere even back in 2006 or so when I played Sapphire. At the same time, it isn't a big deal to me so I can live without as I pretty much expect total zeroes on chances on this across the board

Soma x20

 

[Laniv]

The rake was a gift from my boss


Chance: 0%

Sorry, I don't see this happening. I'm fairly sure new modes are done after HRC, and it doesn't seem like bosses are coming with DLC. Even if they were, we'd sooner get Eternatus or an Ultra Beast as a boss.

As an aside, is Nihilego seriously the only Ultra Beast represented in the game? Sheesh.

Want: 89%

Sure, why not. The game's kinda lacking in bosses that aren't Smash-original anyways. I just hope that its fight takes place in the actual sky.


Sounds of gunfire and Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture getting steadily louder

Chance: 0%

Even less likely than Rayquaza being a boss again. If, by some twist of fate, Sony is ever considered for Smash Bros, we'd sooner get Kratos or Nathan Drake or Toro Inoue. (or Spike from Ape Escape please god I miss that game)

With all my heart, I'd say a sequel to Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale is more likely.

can we get a sequel I'm one of the 7 people on Earth that liked that game

Want: 72%

Ignoring my Ape Escape bias, I am fond of these guys. Honestly, I think you could make something fun out of Clank alone. Basically, I just think they're neat.


Predictions for Giygas: 3.4% Chance, 23% Want
Predictions for Bowser's Castle stage: 12% Chance, 74% Want

Nominate Nabbit x 5

One more thing, I'm fairly certain I used my extra noms last week when we were rating Bandana Dee. If that doesn't count, put the extra noms on Nabbit.

 

[Jomosensual]

Double Abstain


All noms to Joe Random

 

[fogbadge]

a boss fight with a guy who stops the fighting

chances: 0% let's face it if we were getting any more bosses itd have been before now. itd be very weird to get a new boss with the last character as thered only be one character who gets to fight them. unless of course they add in a boss mode but that aint happening as home run was our last mode. even if we did get another boss, why would it be rayquaza? cuase he was a boss before? well that does sound like something sakurai would do.

want: 0% nah there are better things. i feel like the only reason he was a boss in brawl was cuase of his role in one of the weaker pokemon movies. and it just doesnt feel right when he was made to be a sort of peace keeper. honestly nostalgia for brawl seems like the main reason id have for such a thing but its hard to have nostalgia for it when so much of it is still in ultimate. i just dont see the point.

abstain on bargain basement banjo kazooie and put my noms towards spirit events continue after pass

 

[Sari]

Ratchet and Clank

Chance: 0%
Sony and Nintendo mix together as well as oil and water. Their relationship when it comes to crossovers/collaborations is so bad that even Sony's main frontrunners are widely considered to be pipe dreams for Smash. I do think Sony is improving their collab game since we've gotten Kratos in Fortnite and Aloy in Genshin Impact, so a character from them may be a real possibility in the next game. But right now, Sony's improvements seem too late for Ultimate as I don't think Sony is ready at this point to collab with a direct console rival like Nintendo.

Even if we did get a Sony rep, Ratchet & Clank have immense competition. First we have Kratos who is almost universally considered to be Sony's main frontrunner for Smash. Then you have characters like Nathan Drake and Aloy who would most likely be next in line. I can perhaps see Ratchet as the third or fourth Sony choice, but no way he'd get in over Kratos.

Regardless of whichever Sony rep gets in first, just the idea of a Sony rep in Smash seems so big that it'd probably be best for either E3 or the TGAs. We're now past E3 and I'm still in the camp that CP11 will be a more lowkey pick. Ratchet's only saving grace would be a TGA reveal, and even then he'd get pushed aside for the other Sony characters.

Want: Abstain
Haven't played their games so I won't give an actual score. Just by looking at their games, I think I'd enjoy them a lot. However I wouldn't want Ratchet & Clank to get in over Nathan Drake.

-----

Boss: Rayquaza

Chance: 0%
Sakurai already confirmed that we aren't getting any new modes. That alone should pretty much kill this since there's no other way to include a Rayquaza boss. Perhaps if you really want to stretch it, you could say that they could add the Rayquaza boss to go alongside a Pokemon newcomer. However that would require us to get a Pokemon to begin with and is still a giant stretch on its own. We're pretty much at the end of Ultimate's life cycle so I don't see them going through the effort of making this a reality.

Want: 50%
I wouldn't hate this but I wouldn't really like it either. Rayquaza is cool and the boss fight from Brawl was alright. However, I'd rather have dev time go into other things instead. I'm not too invested in Ultimate's single-player so I wouldn't go crazy for this even if it did happen. If we were to get additional boss fights, I'd rather have completely brand new ones.

-----

Giygas chance prediction: 5.00%
Bowster Castle chance prediction: 0.4%

Nominations:
Mii Costume: Rayman x5
Mii Costume: Scorpion x5

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Boss: Rayquaza
Chance: 5%. The 5% is for the sequel. Given that World for Light brought back the Galleom boss fight, I was hoping they make Rayquaza a boss again. For the sequels, the chance would be increased to 5% instead of 0%.

I still have no clue how your scoring works but I think it's pretty clear we're only rating concepts for Ultimate specifically and don't factor in the next game.

Fug
Chance: 0.01%
Development for this game is ending. It's pretty safe to assume no new bosses are going to be added at this point, even if they're recycled from Brawl. Where would you even stick Rayquaza in with how inconvenient it is to fight bosses in this game? A WoL expansion likely ain't happening so Rayquaza would only make sense to come with a Pokemon newcomer, something I already doubt myself. Perhaps a last-minute boss rush mode? That would be nice but again, they aren't going to put resources into bringing Rayquaza back anyhow.

Want: 55%
I guess I wouldn't say no. It's SSE bossfight was decent at least. It really depends what Rayquaza would imply. If it's a boss rush mode I'm for it. If it implies a Pokemon newcomer I'll pass.

Ratchet&Clank
Chance: 0%
Sony isn't going to play ball. Any progress they've made on that front is far too late at this point. If there's no sign of Nintendo and Sony working together now then don't expect anything from them in Smash. Not to mention Ratchet&Clank might not be the number 1 priority when it comes to Sony and that this would feel way more fitting at E3 as opposed to a standard Direct.

Want: 0%
Sometimes Nintendo purity still matters to me. If you told me to look at the roster and ask me who would make it feel complete I likely wouldn't ever answer someone owned by Playstation. I'm sure the Ratchet&Clank games are great but I have my preferred third-parties. And I dunno, I know that we consider Smash a celebration of gaming now and call it an unpopular opinion but having a Playstation character show up before your most wanted first-party would really hurt imo.

Giygas: 4.26%
Bowser's castle: 2.71%
RH rep x15

 

[chocolatejr9]

Abstain. Don't know anything about Ratchet, have no opinion on Rayquaza.

Nominations: Agumon x5

 

[BowserKing]

The main reason why I list chances for sequels is because it will be inevitable, once the final fighter will be revealed.

 

[NintenRob]

I can score Rayquaza

Chance: 0%
As others have said, we're not getting another boss. We're past the chance for that. Heck, we're past the chance for most things, we're about to get our last character.
Want: 100%
Rayquaza was a cool boss, maybe this time he'll bring his theme with him. Maybe mega evolve halfway through? Won't say no to new content regardless.

Nominate the better Pokemon Lugia xMax.

 

[BirthNote]

Here for the Lombax and the Zoni

Chance: 0%. Playstation exists because of a deal that went bad between Sony and Nintendo. Because of how Nintendo handled their end of the bargain, Sony made the Playstation to spite Nintendo as a vehement and vile "F**K YOU!!!" in the 90's, and it shows in their early marketing. That vitriol carried into the 2000's and while it finally simmered down in the 2010's there has been nearly no collaboration between the 2 companies. Microsoft changed their tune when XB1 started to sink and they needed to be more consumer friendly and willing to collaborate, but Sony has been going strong since 2008.

The success has gone to their heads; they have no incentive to do widespread collabs and in many cases prefer to do their own imitations of Nintendo games occasionally. With them still being so popular and their vitriol likely still being present, they likely have no desire to work with Nintendo, so characters ranging from Parappa to Aloy would likely be a flat "No."

Want: 100%! A lot of people don't seem to realize this, but Ratchet & Clank is Sony's 2nd longest running franchise. They're behind Gran Turismo and right ahead of God of War. Ratchet/Clank and Kratos have had main games on Sony platforms since their debut, appearing on the PS2, PS3, PS4, and now PS5 in addition to handhelds. They're one of Sony's OGs and what's more impressive is that R&C was created in an era when mascot platformers were dying out. The series was released in 2002, right as Halo and GTA3 were the main games of the industry, and by 2007 the only 3D Platformers around were Sonic's, Mario's and Ratchet and Clank. Even Banjo-Kazooie, the inspiration of R&C, had given up on the genre while Ratchet maintained acclaim. Many people hold Banjo-Kazooie as a 3D platformer that never had a good successor (until Yooka Laylee) but R&C took that formula to heights Banjo can't hope to touch in the slightest, and then added a bunch of mind-blowing guns and science fiction on top of it, with some innuendos sprinkled in.... heavily. If Smash wants to cover video game history, the franchise that thrived in a time when its genre was getting wiped out would be a poetic inclusion.

Obviously I would LOVE to have Ratchet and Clank, the moveset potential for them is appropriately astronomical. In fact, there's so much material you could work with that you could come up with multiple movesets for them individually. There's dozens of concepts you can concoct though for simplicity's sake they'll likely be a duo in Smash. Still, there's tons of things these 2 can pull off, whether individually or together, that no other fighter can do.

Rayquaza
Chance: 5%. Highly unlikely, but never 0 since the pokemon is within Sakurai's reach. The odds are stacked highly against it.

Want: 0%. I wouldn't mind fighting Rayquaza again, but I can live without it.

 

[Sari]

Day over.

Rate Giegue/Giygas and Stage: Bowser's Castle.

Next rating will be a triple day so predict Sackboy, Tails, and Kaede Akamatsu.

Today is the final day you can affect the top 7 before they're locked into the schedule.

Megadoomer

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Music for today:

Giegue/Giygas

Spoiler: Earthbound/Mother Music

Bowser's Castle

Spoiler: Bowser's Castle Music

 

[GoodGrief741]

As the guy who nominated Giygas, I'd like to clarify that despite the name this was actually meant to be rating Giegue, his EB0 form. They're the same character so if you want to include red swirl Giygas in your considerations go for it, I just wanted to avoid any confusion that Giegue was excluded because of the nomenclature.

 

[DaUsername]

R&C
Chance: 0%
They are owned by Sony. I do not need to elaborate any further.

Bossquaza
Chance: 0%
If they were ever gonna add bosses or expand the story mode at all, they would have done so by now. Obviously they didn't, so I don't see this happening.
Abstain want from both.

Giygas prediction: 1.5%
Castle prediction: 4%
Noms: Kraid x5

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Mewtwo Two
Chance: 2%
I really can’t say a lot rather than it being pretty unlikely in my opinion. The Mother series is done and one of the more obscure series in Nintendo’s catalogue with memetically little coming on the horizon. To make matters worse for Giygas, he’s not even the frontrunner, with Porky having the support and in-Smash presence of the Brawl bosses. Ninten also has gathered support as an Echo, and even Kumatora is a fan favorite. Not a particularly outstanding choice in any way.

Want: 30%
The rating’s for the EB0 form, which is an act of pure cowardice. I wanna play as red swirls exclusively.

Bowser‘s Castle
Chance: 1%
A standalone Bowser’s Castle stage has two possibilities. One, the final character is intrinsically linked to the locale so that it features in the Challenger Pack, or we get standalone stages and that pack out of all possible stages includes Bowser’s Castle. I’m struggling to find a characrer so linked to the former that could be possible and can only think of Kamek or Paper Mario and even then does the latter have other locales to pick from. The latter scenario just has too much competition from not only returning stages, but every other possible stage.

Want: 100%
Showtime

Sackboy: 1.56%
Tails: 7.77%
Kaeda Akamatsu: 3.33% (Also, really? Danganropa? Again?)

Noms go to Off The Hook

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm too damn proud of this want writeup I finished yesterday to change it after the clarification

Chance: 0% Earthbound is a finished series which is never getting a new installment ever again. Strike 1. Giugue/Giygas are not popular requests at all. Strike 2. There's other characters from this franchise people prefer. Strike 3. This character is entirely stationary meaning a hell of a lot more creativity needs to get put in than any character in the last decade. Strike 4.

Want: Now, I'm not an Earthbound fan at all and have zero interest in the first 2 games, which is tough as Giygas is only in those games, the issue is that I have no clue how to visualize this, there's the Mother 1 appearance which is stuck in a pod of some kind to get his power for the planned invasion or whatever the hell he's supposed to be in the sequel, the iconic... Thing that looks like a fetus. Giygas stands out tremendously because he's a cosmic horror who's physical form cannot be comprehended at all, which was completely intentional to Itoi's vision and based off of Lovecraft's work. I can't envision this at all and giving Giygas a solid form at all feels like a contradiction of what he's meant to be and honestly, the cosmic horror is the only part of the character I truly find fascinating and as stated previously, I have no interest in actually playing the games. I'll have to give this a 0% because it's not worth missing the point imo

The most obvious choice

Chance: 0% For some ****ing reason, Sakurai has not and will not add this to Smash and as we all know, we are done with stages after one more from now. The only way this can happen is if the final character is associated with Bowser's Castle, but oops, we have Bowser since 20 years ago and Bowser Jr since 7 years ago. Other Mario characters simply do not have this stage as their best options either so it wouldn't get picked at all regardless of who it is

Want: 100% Who the **** doesn't want Bowser's Castle? By law, you need to like the idea or face execution, that law means **** all because everyone is down for it. Honestly, there's no way to say anything which makes it frustrating as the Bowser Castle writeups got corrupted aaaaaaaa

Soma x20

 

[DanganZilla5]

Giygas

Chance: 1%

He's certainly an iconic villain, for good reasons. He's genuinely terrifying and there's a lot of symbolism involved with him and his design. Giygas is definitely one of the frontrunners for the next Mother rep. But that's my issue, I don't think we will get another character from the series. Mother is done with and Nintendo hasn't advertised it in a significant way for a long time. There's also Porky whom from what I've seen outclasses Giygas when it comes to fan demand and it's easier to imagine a moveset for Porky. I do think they could give Giygas a proper moveset despite his abstract nature, but they might just go with the more simple choice in Porky instead.

Want: 30%

I'm not a Mother fan and I couldn't really get into Earthbound due to me just not being able to get sucked into older JRPGs. But what I did like about it is the foreboding atmosphere. From the start you get the sense that something is off and as it turns out Giygas' influence can be seen everywhere from the zombies to all the crazy stuff going on in the world. I'm really intrigued by the whole cosmic horror thing and to have a being, whose physical form isn't its true identity, in Smash would be wack. They could potentially make a really creative moveset out of that idea. The only thing is I would prefer a character that I have more of a connection to.

______________________________

Why isn't this in the game?

Chance: 1.5%

I do think there is a very slim chance this could happen. I have two arguments. The first one comes from the Smash website mystery that popped up a couple months ago. If I remember correctly it came from a screwup from Nintendo themselves where they left coding on the website that suggested there is one more piece of DLC after CP11 which sparked discussions about a bonus fighter. But what if that coding meant for something else like a stage pass? I know it's kind of a stretch but that leads into my second point which is the fact that after this fighters pass we will have three more squares left (Not counting the last spot which is used up in the random stage selection screen). I know that historically Smash hasn't cared that much about making things symmetrical but with the demand for returning stages it makes me wonder if they might go the extra mile to make a couple more. But that makes me think that if they did this, they might return a couple stages like Poke Floats, Rainbow Road, and Pac Maze and stop right there without creating a new one. So yeah even with these arguments this still has a minute chance of happening.

Want: 100%

This alongside a Tetris stage is one of the those things that makes you go "Why the heck isn't this in Smash?" Like for real this is something obvious and yet it isn't in Smash for some godforsaken reason. Like come on there are so many variations of Bowser's Castle that would work so well for Smash. What are they waiting for?

Predictions:
Sackboy - 1%
Tails - 7%
The rating of the 50th Danganronpa character - 8%

Noms: Sam Fisher x20

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

George
Chance: 0%
Even assuming they'd go for the Mewtwo-in-a-pod like design, there just doesn't see that much to work with. Just the way Mother battles looks like means some major creative liberties have to be taken. Making Giygas a fighter like that kinda takes away the mysterious, uncomprehensive and lovecraftian nature of it and if Sakurai aims to do fighters justice to their source material, he shouldn't consider giving Giygas a role like this. Then there are still the other things going against Giygas like the Mother series being doneso and Nintendo not having any insentive to promote it through DLC. Giygas doesn't even have many request in the slightest. Most I've seen is people suggesting it being a Mewtwo echo. Characters like Masked Man and Porky are taken far more seriously as requests.

Want: Abstaining

King Koopa's Coney island Disco Palace
Chance: 0.5%
Chances are, if CP11 is a Mario character they wouldn't come with Bowser's castle as a stage. Can't imagine it coming with Waluigi or Captain Toad. It would probably have a better shot as a standalone post-pass extra. More stages really are a cross-your-fingers type of scenario though, especially brand new ones so we shouldn't put much stock into this.

Want: 100%
What's there to say? This is overdue as a stage and there's pretty much no reason to not want it. Really, where are Sakurai's concerns here? Spoilers?...

Sackboy: 3.87%
Tails: 4.25%
Kaeda Danganronpa something: 1%
RH rep x10

 

[BowserKing]

Giygas
Chance: 5%. With one slot left and two villains already in the pass, Giygas chance is quite low. Not helping matters is that Mother has two reps and Porky is the most likely Mother villain to be playable.

Want: 60%. Giygas would be fun to play as, and I can see him and Ness have a rematch. Overall, he wouldn’t make a good Smash Bros rep.

Stage: Bowser’s Castle
Chance: 5%. Bowser’s Castle has a low chance of being in the game, but if that did not stop a free stage (Small Battlefield) from getting, the new Bowser’s Castle could show up. But then again, lots of stages are possible.

Want: 100%. This stage should totally appear I need Smash and I can see a Mario free for all, Bowser being fought here and even some stage enemies. Overall, this stage is long overdue for smash.
Prediction: Sackboy (5%), Tails (10%) and Kaeda (5%)
Noms: 5 for Lugia

 

[Laniv]

The Geek

Chance: 0.5%

The red swirling horror form, which is possibly his most iconic appearance, is probably not gonna work. Even if Porky wasn't competition, Giygas still wouldn't be that likely. A Mother character just doesn't seem like it's high on the priority list. The only reason I don't give Giygas a flat zero is because there's no spirit of him.

Want: 25%

Eh, don't really care one way or the other. Now, a boss on the other hand...



Glaring Stage Omission

Chance: 0.4%

On the off-chance we get Dry Bowser as the final character, we could see it as a stage. Its only hope is that we get standalone stage DLC in the future, or if it's shadowdropped like Small Battlefield. Other than that, I don't see it happening.

Want: 100%

How, how, how has this never been done before. Is it because they can't pick a design? It just feels like a super-obvious choice. You could have lava as a stage hazard, and then Thwomps and Bullet Bills and Podoboos/Lava Bubbles/whatever those things that jump outta lava are called as enemies that leap down to attack! It's one of the most prominent Mario series locales that isn't yet a stage! Why is it not in yet?!


Predictions for Sackboy: 2.4% Chance, 45% Want
Predictions for Tails: 6.3% Chance, 74% Want
Predictions for Kaeda: 2.3% Chance, 32% Want

Nominate Magolor x 5

 

[GoodGrief741]

Finally, calcs on Saturday

Ori
7.80% Chance - 36.75% Want
Ori's chance score was skewed by a single 35% rating (for perspective, her second highest rating was 2%). If you remove that from the average you get 1.00%
The winner of predictions was Sari by virtue of being the highest prediction, a precise 8.00%

Gunvolt
9.20% Chance - 78.33% Want
The winner of predictions was GoodGrief741 also with the highest prediction, a 6.75%
Gunvolt unseats Kiryu as the fifth most wanted third party.

Ratchet & Clank
0.91% Chance - 62.44% Want

Boss: Rayquaza
0.43% Chance - 76.40% Want
I guess this also technically counts as an unrepresentative score, as it saw a single 5% rating that severely inflated its chances (no other score was above 0.2%) without which we would actually have a 0.02% score.
The winner of predictions was GoodGrief741 with a near-exact 0.38%. Since that's only .05% away, I win 10 extra noms for this!
Rayquaza is the least likely boss addition (under Kracko) and the third least likely concept overall. But on the positive side, it's also the most wanted boss (take that Kracko!) and fifth most wanted concept overall!

Ratchet & Clank and Boss: Rayquaza join the Less Likely Than Goku club.

Spoiler: Ye with extra noms

3BitSaurus 5
Artix 15
Awakining 5
BowserKing 5
Dan Quixote 10
DaUsername 217
Delzethin 5
Golden Icarus 5
GoodGrief741 15
Inue Houji 74
Mr. MR 75
Nemuresu 10
Ninjaed 20
Perkilator 5
Ridrool64 25
Sari 10
SKX31 55
Troykv 15
waddledeeonredyoshi 5
Wunderwaft 5

Edited out the extra noms used on the day I just counted

 

[GoodGrief741]

Spoiler: Nominations post-Ratchet & Clank/Boss: Rayquaza pre-Giygas/Stage: Bowser's Castle

Concept: Rhythm Heaven rep x265
DJ Octavio x225
Concept: Spirit Events continue after the Fighter Pass x225
Soma Cruz x192
Concept: Destroy All Humans content x180
Echo (Bowser) x173
Magolor x165
E.M.M.I. x155
Fulgore x152
Boss: Ender Dragon x143
Mii Costume: Alex Kidd x138
Mii Costume: Monika x135
Off The Hook x135
Stage: Tetris x125

150 - 101

D.Va x115
[Rerate] Gene x110
[Rerate] Eggman x107
Concept: Crazy Taxi character x105
[Rerate] Agumon x105
Lugia x105
Sam Fisher x105

100 - 51

Legends Trainer x90
Concept: Next game is not a reboot x85
[Rerate] Sora x83
Concept: Darksiders rep x80
Concept: More ATs as one new item x75
Dwight Fairfield (Dead by Daylight) x75
Concept: Rocket League rep x75
Concept: SNES-era Final Fantasy rep x75
Echo (Olimar) x66
[Rerate] Zhao Yun x65
Ghirahim x60
Sukapon x60
Vi (Bug Fables) x55
Echo: Zeraora (Lucario) x55
[Rerate] Jin Kazama x55
Jin Sakai x55

50 - 25

Plague Knight x50
Springtrap x50
Joe Random (MLB: The Show) x50
Captain Charlie (Pikmin) x50
Mii Costume: Zagreus x40
Omori x35
Filia (Skullgirls) x31
Nabbit x30
Concept: Large and Normal Final Destination made into separate stages x25

Under 25

Regigigas x20
[Rerate] Metal Sonic x20
Concept: Bonus Fighter x20
Donbe and Hikari x20
[Rerate] Spyro x20
Mii Costume: Scorpion x20
[Rerate] Earthworm Jim x16
Yarn Yoshi x15
[Rerate] Shovel Knight x15
Echo: Ms. Pac-Man x15
[Rerate] Ezio Auditore da Firenze x15
Concept: Bonus Stages to fill out the stage select screen x15
Tetris x10
Slash Kamei (Snowboard Kids) x10
Jesse Faden x10
Infernape x10
[Rerate] Gex x10
[Rerate] Concept: Echo Fighters Pass x10
[Rerate] Q*Bert x10
[Rerate] Ryu Hayabusa x10
Mii Costume: Among Us x10
Kraid x10
[Rerate] Brian x7
Concept: Rocket League content x5
[Rerate] Thrall x5
[Rerate] Lara Croft x5
Stage: Tetris 99 x5
Concept: Raizing shmup rep x5
Concept: KOS-MOS with T-elos alt x5
[Rerate] Master Hand x5
[Rerate] Elma x5
Siris (Infinity Blade) x5
Concept: Tsukihime rep x5
Concept: Challenger Pack with more than 15 spirits x5
Arcueid Brunestud (Tsukihime) x5
Mii Costume: Rayman x5
Firebrand x1

Lugia and Sam Fisher soar past 100 noms.

Sukapon fights past 50 noms.

Nabbit breaks out of under 25 jail.

Today's new concept is Mii Costume: Rayman, with 5 noms.

 

[fogbadge]

from mewtwo to cosmic horror

chances: 0% i dont see nintendo having suggested this. maybe for the base game id give the series villain a bit of a chance but the series being done and dusted doesnt help. while his original appearance would work perfectly well in smash thats not much in his favour. i can believe that maybe nintendo would suggest another mother character but then we have to ask is this who sakurai would go for. in such a scenario we have no way of knowing who sakurai would pick with a plethora of playable characters and villains to chose from. even the claim of being a series villain wouldnt give him an edge i dont think and we know popularity only matters so much we he doesnt have much of anyway.

want: 20% im not against the idea but there are other mother characters id prefer. i would think he would bring a unique moveset to smash so thats something. but at the end of the day id rather have boney.

the floor is actually lava

chances: 0% i really dont see how wed get this. we're getting one more stage with one more character so you gotta ask yourself what character would this stage come with? all the answers i can think of are in the game with one or two ideas that seem very unlikely. maybe for the base game id give it a bit more but even then i wouldnt be convinced of its likeliness, after all im dont think the iconic location logic hold much water as there are plenty of iconic recurring locations that dont have stages either.

want: 65%i could be fun. id like a mario kart version of the stage with the huge bowser staute punching the stage every once in a while.

noms go to spirit events continue after pass

 

[chocolatejr9]

Abstain. I know nothing about either.

Nominations: Agumon x5

 

[GoodGrief741]

From Mewtwo to 0²

Chance: 1%
Mother isn't in the best place to get DLC. As a finished series, its only potential shill aspect is if, by some kind of miracle, Mother 3 got localized. Fat chance there. Without promotion to back it up, its sales prospects are questionable as it has a cult audience. It's true that Smash fans will buy anything and the Earthbound fandom is big enough to make EB and Beginnings into eShop bestsellers. But if you're looking to maximize sales, well this isn't the series you pick from.

There's also the fact that there are a lot of potential Mother reps and most of them are more popular than Giegue. Porky, Ninten, the Masked Man and even Kumatora I'd say. So even if you want a character that specifically reps EB0 Ninten probably wins that contest.

Then there's the question of the moveset. Giegue/Giygas has two forms: the gray alien form from EB0, and the eldritch red swirl "Universal Cosmic Destroyer" form. Both use attacks that are described as incomprehensible to emphasize his otherworldliness and insanity. The red swirl form is likely impossible to translate into a fighter, it didn't even get a Spirit as it's moreso a background pattern than a defined, physical entity. The EB0 version fares better but he still runs into the issue of how would his attacks be interpreted. And we can't ignore the elephant in the room that is Mewtwo. Mewtwo was obviously influenced by Giegue's design, so can you have the imitator and the inspiration in the same game? Would it be redundant? Those are all valid points and while they can probably be sorted out the availability of better candidates means that he'll likely be skipped.

Want: 100%
I see the concerns that there's no way to translate the lovecraftian powers of Giygas into Smash, and I totally get them. But I'd really, really like to see Sakurai try anyway. That has the potential to be super interesting.

Really though, I love the Mother trilogy, they're some of my favorite games ever made, so I'd take any character from them, and Giegue/Giygas is no exception as one of the best, most menacing and scariest villains in all of gaming (maybe all of fiction). So I'd accept him with open arms even if he had to be a Mewtwo Echo with Giygas swirls as his projectiles.

The stage equivalent of Toad

Chance: 0%
Stages come with fighters they're associated with. Bowser and Bowser Jr. are already in. I can't think of a single fighter that would come with this as a stage. Even if standalone stages started getting released, I think they'd prioritize old stages and promotion. Really, the fact that it's been 20 years and the best we have is a section of one of the worst stages makes the prospect extremely doubtful.

Want: 100%
It's baffling that one of the easiest and most obvious stages still hasn't made the cut. The potential is insane. Bowser's Castle is one of the coolest locations in any Mario game. I can't understand what drove Sakurai to pick so many boring 1-1 stages and never this. But I'd pay good money to get this.

Noms: Sukapon
Sackboy prediction: 2.3%
Tails prediction: 1.74%
Kaede prediction: 1.33%

 

[Sari]

Giygas

Chance: 0%
Considering how the Mother series has been finished for about 15 years now, I don't see it as being a priority for Sakurai or Nintendo. Even if we were to get another Mother rep than Giygas has immense competition. There's Ninten who would probably be a better rep for Mother 1, the other party members in Earthbound, and another Mother 3 character if we actually did get a port of it and Nintendo decided to shill for it. Oh and of course there's the fat time-traveling kid in the corner to address: Porky. He was a boss in Brawl, has a role in both Earthbound and Mother 3, and is generally much more popular when it comes to Smash. If we were to ever get another Mother rep, I'm convinced it would be him (or Ninten if they somehow go the echo route).

Want: 10%
I echo what others have said in that I think Giygas is better represented as the incomprehensible monstrosity from Earthbound. I know he technically has a physical form in Mother 1, but it just seems sort of a stretch to have him physically playable. When it comes to Mother characters, I'd prefer Porky or one of the Mother 3 party members anyway.

I'll give a small want % since it'd be interesting to have one of Nintendo's most infamous villains in Smash. Also his inclusion would pretty much confirm Pokey Means Business for Smash and I would really be interested to see what kind of villainy stage he brings (though I doubt his evil lair in Earthbound would make it into Smash for... obvious reasons).

-----

Stage: Bowser's Castle

Chance: 0%
The only chance for this is if we get a Bowser-themed Mario newcomer as our final character. As it turns out, pretty much every notable Bowser character is in Smash already (Bowser, Bowser Jr, Koopalings). I know Kamek is also a candidate but I don't see him happening. Even if we did get him, his stage would probably be Yoshi themed anyway.

Want: 100%
We get a bunch of Mario level/Peach castle stages but not one for Bowser's Castle? Yeah there's definitely something wrong here. There's just so much potential they could do with a stage centered around Bowser that it's ridiculous we don't have one already. I don't care which Mario game it's based on: just as long as we've got a nice home stage for Bowser.

I think we're also long overdue for more villain-based stages in general. We have over 100 stages and only about 7 of them are centered around villains (and that's if you count some of the iffy ones like Frigate Orpheon and Mishima Dojo). Evil stages are usually some of the most appealing out there so I'd love to see more of them.

-----

Sackboy chance prediction: 3.07%
Tails chance prediction: 17.04%
What feels like our millionth Danganronpa rating chance prediction: 3.00%

-----

Nominations:
Mii Costume: Rayman x25

 

[Gorgonzales]

Giygas

Chance: 1%
Mother is a finished series that Nintendo couldn't really shill for unless they're either doing a remake of any of the games in the trilogy or releasing Mother 3 overseas. Even then, I doubt Nintendo would add a rep to Smash to promote a remake or rerelease. Porky, Ninten, and Kumatora are leagues above Giygas in terms of requests. Giygas himself would be hard to implement as a fighter while truly representing his character, which is something Sakurai has been shown to reject characters for in the past. So yeah... not looking too good for him. 1% because nothing's impossible.

Want: 0%
Including this incomprehensible entity as a playable fighter (which would give him tangible strengths and weaknesses) would be an active disservice to his character. I love villains, I really do, but Giygas is not meant for a physical role in a fighting game. I WANT to see Giygas in this game, but not as a playable character. Porky would be a better Mother villain rep, and maybe he could show up in his moveset as part of his Final Smash where everyone on screen randomly and spontaneously takes damage / gets negative status effects or something. Giygas deserves to be part of this series, he's too iconic not to; I'd just rather see him as literally anything else other than a fighter.

Also the Mewtwo echo idea is lame and people who suggest that should feel ashamed of themselves.

Bowser's Castle

Chance: 3%

Kamek is a major character of the Yoshi series that currently isn't playable. I could kinda see him being added to finally give the original 8 their respective villains/rivals, but that's a long reach and characters usually aren't included for the sake of representation. Plus there's a good chance his stage would be based on something only tangentially related to Bowser's castle like the platform in the final boss fight. Bowser's Castle isn't impossible, but it isn't likely either. If they add another Mario enemy like Plant then it'd have a better shot but I cannot see that happening at this point.

Want: 100%
Every time they add another generic grassy 1-1 stage to represent a new Mario game I feel almost nothing. There are... so, so many better options. It's baffling as to why Bowser's Castle hasn't made it in yet. It's practically in every main Mario game and plays a significant role in each of them. Villainy stages are awesome and it's such a shame we barely have any. It'd be a great chance to really utilize Mario's roster of more hostile enemies like Whomps, Podoboos, etc.

edit: all noms go to kamek. forgot to include this in the initial post

 

[GoodGrief741]

Also the Mewtwo echo idea is lame and people who suggest that should feel ashamed of themselves.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Abstain on both.

Fulgore x 5

 

[Dreamking]

Like most of the characters I want, infinitesimal small chance at 1% but with a want percentage of at least 50%

I would choose him to be the villain rep for the Mother series since he'd represent the first game because I would have him be in his Mother 1 incarnation.

I don't think he needs to be a pure echo of Mewtwo. Body structure would be the same with different stats. I could see them sharing many of the same regular attacks, but all Mother inspired special attacks with him changing into his Mother 2 self for the final smash.

As for Bowser's Castle, 0% of showing but 100% of wanting to see. Some of the villain characters have a stage you could say are their home stage like Fountain of Dreams for Dedede and Norfair for Ridley. Bowser gets nothing that is obviously for him except for the Bowser's Castle transformation that is part of the Paper Mario stage.