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Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

Dan Quixote

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
1,126
Location
Florida
Aaaa damn it I forgot to submit for the 3rd FP rate, I liked that one. Well I really have zero predictions for the last three challenger packs because it feels like it could go in ANY direction. I really cannot form a really concrete opinion for the top three possibilities right now. I guess Crash would be up there? Also something Capcom because it feels like the time? But yeah, consider this an abstain because my official opinion is that the sky's the limit and we have no hints. If I can still do noms today with an abstain, then x5 towards Tetra please.
I will say this though: After reading everyone else's posts, I have this gut feeling that we're overestimating the chances of a first-party fighter in the remaining DLC. Can't shake the feeling that Byleth and Min Min were flukes. I'm not certain on that or anything but it's just a feeling.
 

Zyliee

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 30, 2021
Messages
45
Hmmm, It's a lot harder for 'predicting' as I prefer designing what would be fun for a character that does make sense while also arguing what a character brings which has been wrong. I was against Steve mostly because of the music and the amount of effort required to put 'Minecraft in Smash' as well as characters who are extremely minor in their appearance. I'm also a heavy believer of the '5chan' leak, so I am gonna try and put that aside.


With Fighter Pass 1; we got a 'wildcard' with Joker, a champion of the genre with Hero, A Ballot heavyweight with Banjo, Sakurai's love for Terry and Nintendo promotion with Byleth. Fighter Pass 2 has so far given us a Nintendo promotion with Min Min, a 'Wildcard' with Steve (despite him being the character Nintendo demanded Sakurai do the most), and Sakurai's love with Sephiroth. And while this 'trend' is completely arbitrary and made up and has zero grounds to logic like anything on this board in my opinion... We would be needing a 'Champion of the Genre' and 'Ballot Heavyweight and we get one bonus character we can throw for disappointment.

So, my pick for 'Champion of the Genre' would be: REIMU! Why? While the shoot'em up Genre is mostly represented by the game at the credits, it is possible to get a character in. Reimu, despite being Indie, fits the mold very well since it's an actual character with a lot of depth built up over the years from various games and sources. As well as most other games had only one release and usually are spaceships... Sorry, I really don't think Gradius will work in Smash as a character. Maybe start a 'Opa-Opa' for Smash? If you had to think of other game genres for character reps, Master Chief and Doomguy are honestly neck and neck for me for Shooters despite Doomguy being more the Grandaddy and Chief is the ursurper back in the mid 2000's.. And while I poured my heart out for 'Thrall' in Smash, The RTS genre is probably fine with Olimar as it's rep.

Next, the pick of "Ballot Heavyweight" would be: CRASH! Okay, listen... I said I wouldn't copy from the 5chan leak but he fits too well into it despite not being as high as many others. Crash, Rayman and Spyro are my thoughts on it all but Rayman has been left behind a while ago and Crash has been shining brighter then Spyro has in my eyes. The rest either have an Assist, are not seen as 'stylish' enough by me or have a rep in the game already.

Now, the disappointment pick has me guessing a Pokemon character to be added from Sword/Shield as promotion with the final smash being Gigantomaxing OR Llyod Irving! Get the pitchforks and boo me for saying this will be the 'disappointment pick' because I never played the series and I don't know anything about it, but he is the 'anime swordfighter' character most people don't like. Hero and Sephiroth get away with it more because Sephiroth has that FF7 clout and unqiue sword and style while Hero benefits from being the main star of the genre along with Akira Toriyama's artstyle. I look at Lloyd and I see 'Yeah, that is an anime swordfighter with probably a magic gimmick' that same way I saw Byleth and Corrin and how I see people wanting Issac as well. Which is why I think the last DLC slot will go to him.
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Well, with only 3 characters left I'm still very, very lost. I'm the kind of guy that just considers tons of characters so I'm never shocked, but I don't do predictions either. Still, in the spirit of participation (and getting those sweet noms) I'll do a prediction. These are the three characters I rated the highest at some point or another in Ultimate's speculation cycle (though not necessarily right now). Tbh I'll feel like a total badass if even one of them makes it in, let alone all three.

Isaac
I do think we're looking at more Nintendo characters down the line. It makes sense both to cut down costs and because they're less stereotypically "hypey" and therefore natural fits for the latter half of the pass. Isaac benefits from being a bona fide longtime want from the fandom at a time where it feels like they're all getting shot down one by one. We still don't have our "Banjo" and I think we're almost certain to get one. I think his fanbase definitely made themselves heard, both in the Ballot, and later with the outcry after his Assist Trophy. Couple that with calls for (and rumors of) a return for Golden Sun and he might make sense from Nintendo's perspective. And if he seems too small for you, well, someone has to be FP11.

Rex & Pyra
Xenoblade is a big deal, and it's in Nintendo's best interest to make it even bigger. Rex is hella popular, especially in Japan. Sakurai actually apologized for not including him, something I don't think he's ever done. A new Xenoblade in unlikely to come out anytime soon. Rex has so many things going for him so I'd actually be surprised if he didn't make it in.

Ryu Hayabusa
Yeah these turned out to be pretty bland predictions. Anyway I think we can probably expect a new company represented, and chances are it's Japanese. As far as unrepped Japanese companies go there's few that match Koei Tecmo in recent partnership with Nintendo. Ryu Hayabusa is their mascot, and also an icon of the NES platformer (and the character action genre). We've had leaks about discussions for him in Smash, we've had teases from K-T that he'll show up in something soon, and where there's smoke there's fire. There's even that leaked trilogy collection that should be announced soon. He'd make a big splash while still being a smaller character compared to Sephiroth and Final Fantasy, which makes him perfect for a spot such as FP9.

So, there you go, my predictions are Ryu Hayabusa in a March reveal, followed by Rex for E3, and Isaac last, probably in a September Direct. I expect to get precisely 0% of this right, but hey, what's life without some calculated-and-not-at-all-high-stakes risk?

Anyway, noms go to Agent 47.
Monokuma prediction: his last score
 

ChunkySlugger72

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
1,834
In no paticular order these are my final 3 predictions.

1. Crash Bandicoot

This broken record has repeatedly been played to death when it comes to Crash Bandicoot, But honestly what exactly can I say that hasn't already been mentioned countless times by many others before?, Grant it I'm somewhat bias, But there's a reason that so many over the internet and Youtube constantly bring him up as a popular and obvious choice. He just makes too much sense that even people that don't care for or even like him can see why he's a popular, obvious and dare I say a deserving choice to be in Super Smash Bros Ultimate.

He's one of the few big name 3rd party characters with very little weaknesses with the only big ones seen as being a western character and owned by Activision, But other than that Crash Bandicoot is seen like a jack of all trades/all arounder in terms of character profile.

- Video game icon/De facto Sony Playstation mascot

- Absolutely fits the Nintendo/Smash aesthetic.

- While not seen as the most exciting, His moveset and mannerisms just like Banjo-Kazooie could be copy and pasted as they would translate very well into Smash.

- A current and active big name franchise that already has a couple of games on Switch in "N.Sane Trilogy" and "Nitro Fueled" with the very likely chance with a "It"s About Time" port in the works for this year.

- Nintendo has worked with Activision before in the past crossing over Bowser and Donkey Kong with Crash Bandicoot and Dr. Cortex via Skylanders.

- One of the few western characters that also has been successful in Japan and has a solid popularity reputation over there as an established character.

- When it comes to Crash Bandicoot, Nintendo has somewhat of a tendency to give him some spotlight time going as far as recognizing him as a gaming icon and promoting him in advertisements and trailers alongside 1st party characters and franchises.

Bottom Line: While no one is a "Lock", My gut is telling me without a doubt that Crash Bandicoot is one of the "Likeliest" candidates for Super Smash Bros Ultimate.

2. Pokemon (8th Generation Representative)

With how much of a powerhouse franchise the Pokemon brand is it would not surprise me if they get a rep to continue to push 8th gen in Smash especially in time for the franchise's 25th anniversary, Which Nintendo/Pokemon Company will push all year long.

Who it will be? I don't know, "Cinderace" seems like the commonly obvious choice because of the anime, promotion and such, But I'm personally hoping for my favorite starter evolution of Sword/Shield in "Inteleon" though it maybe somewhat of a longshot, I can also see them pushing some type legendary Pokemon too.

This last one is somewhat kind of a toss up.

3. Master Chief/Rayman/Ryu Hayabusa

I don't want to get to deep into these, But all these 3 seem like very reasonable candidates to join Smash.

- Microsoft has a good working partnership with Nintendo and with them already on board in Smash, I just can't not imagine the idea of the face of their Xbox brand coming up as a candidate during negotiations for the ultimate fighting crossover in video game history.

- Ubisoft also has a good working partnership with Nintendo and has collaborated with them using the Mario IP too, They already have minor content in Smash and their company mascot has already appeared before in some form or capacity.

- Koei Tecmo, Again has a long working partnership with Nintendo and collaborated with their IP's too, Them being one the last few major/significant Japanese developers that hasn't gotten a character in Smash and what more obvious choice than their mascot? Plus they have the advantage of also being a Japanese company which makes negotiations easier and franchises/characters are favored a lot more.

Honorable Mention: "Out of Left Field" pick

The way they unveiled Fighter Pass 2 with an extra character slot compared to the 1st one, Makes me believe that the last character is probably a big name character or someone that everyone is unexpecting.

Yes, I know this is all speculation, I could hit the nail on the head on all of them or completely strike out on all 3 or somewhere in between, But this is what my gut is telling me and what I will bet/think is gonna happen.
 
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SWSU

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 22, 2020
Messages
127
I don't know the order, and I'm not going to pretend like I have any idea, so I'm just gonna go at them randomly.

Crash Bandicoot

Like others have said, the biggest point for Crash is that.... Crash just feels like he makes sense. He has the Smash Bros feel, he has the history, he has the legacy. He checks all the boxes for someone who should make it in. The only thing that would stop him is if Nintendo/Sakurai simply isn't interested in him despite all of that. I would never rank anyone above a 50% Chance, but I think Crash has the strongest chance you can have at this point.

Shantae
I know this pick might seem unlikely, but I feel like we will be getting a "Meh" Pick for the Final Fighter, and while she's certainly deserving, I can also see her getting backlast for a bit of a lowkey Final Fighter. Pokemon/Xenoblade could fill that role too I'm aware, but each of them has reasons that make me think they arent coming. (SwSh is a little TOO Past its prime at this point, and Xenoblade is covered in Spirits they would have saved for a DLC Spirit Board. This isn't a Spirits Deconfirm thing, but... with a Xenoblade pick, I can't see what they could do for the spirit board other than reuse what they already have.) And Shantae really just has 2 spirits and thats it. She's from a series that is kind of up and coming on Nintendo, and I could see it happening.

Leon S. Kennedy/Jill Valentine
Okay.... Yes I am aware that Resident Evil had a Post Game DLC Event, and that likely counts them out. However something has bugged me for a long time.The DLC Event featured 4 Spirits:

Jill from Resident Evil 1 (Remake)
Leon from Resident Evil 4
Wesker from Resident Evil 5
Chris from Resident Evil 6

There are two mainline games missing from those, Resident Evil 2 and 3. The Two Games that were getting remakes during the DLC Production Cycle. And if you consider that neither Leon or Jill was wearing their outfits from those games as spirits... RE 2 & 3 remain completely unrepresented, which is very strange since as I said, they were the two that were in the spotlight at this time. So while we got those 4 as spirits. With these two as DLC. We could get Claire, Ada, Carlos, Birken, Sherry etc to represent those games. With the Survival Horror Genre being Unrepresented in Smash Currently.

Admittedly all of the Evidence and Fan Rules (And the Capcom Leak) Puts their Chances low, but my gut is just telling me theres a chance.
 

Mr. MR

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 5, 2011
Messages
115
Last Half of Fighter Pass 2 Predictions

Monster Hunter
(the shill pick/obvious pick imo)
This is the one I'm most confident in. This franchise has had a similar cultural impact on Japan as Dragon Quest did and I feel like from just that perspective 'Everyone is Here!' is not true until the Hunter joins Smash. Rathalos and two tracks isn't enough representation for such a huge series. Monster Hunter isn't just big in Japan, as Monster Hunter World is currently Capcom's best selling game of all time and the terrible Monster Hunter Movie is still in drive-in theaters right now. Speaking of promotions, both Nintendo and Capcom have been REALLY promoting the new Monster Hunter Rise. Most people are expecting the next fighter will come out next month which is exactly the time the game releases. The time is ripe and the pump is primed.

If Monster Hunter is so big why didn't it get a character in the base game of Ultimate? I think Nintendo did plan from the beginning to add a playable Hunter. Smash 4 had Monster Hunter Mii Costumes and I was surprised we did not get Rathalos Mii Costumes in the base game with Rathalos. The reason I believe the Hunter was not released in the base game was because Rise had not released yet. There's many reasons why Nintendo would add Rathalos in the base game without the Hunter. I personally think we will not get any DLC bosses so if they were going to add a boss they have to do it in the base game. Also, with Ridley promoted to playable character, another dragon boss was needed and Rathalos is one of the most recognizable ones. It makes even more sense if they planned on adding more Monster Hunter content in the future when at the time Rise was still in development. Which also explains why the in-game music files were labeled with MH.

Lu Bu or Zhao Yun (the non-America focused pick)
I'm sticking with my gut and keeping it spicy. Every reason minus NES legacy for Ryu Hayabusa applies more to Dynasty Warriors. The three crossovers Koei-Tecmo had with Nintendo are all Warriors games and not Ninja Gaiden games. Dynasty Warriors might not have been on the NES but it is on the Switch and the next game (Dynasty Warriors 9 Empires) is going to release on the Switch as well. Ninja Gaiden on the other hand isn't currently present on the Switch. Ryu Hayabusa has good reasons for being rated high and is a solid pick but I feel like Dyansty Warriors (which is also a flagship franchise of KT) is usually ignored.

I'll be honest, I didn't know who Terry was until I started doing research on SNK. I probably saw him being discussed or in art once in a while but he never stuck in my mind. I feel like Lu Bu and Zhao Yun would be like that for some people. The series is popular enough to get tons of spinoffs but the time period it takes place in is much more popular in Japan than it is here. I suppose this spot could also be filled by Adol Christian. I don't know a whole lot about him and the leak that has been partially true so far so it has some merit. However I'll stick with what I know and even if I'm wrong about Lu Bu or Zhao Yun I like to bring awareness to characters that I know that have good reasons to be in but end up generally passed up.

Master Chief (the surprise pick)
There are some characters who I would definitely put above the Chief like Crash. However I think the Chief would be the better candidate to end on in this list. Sephiroth really shook things up for me that I could see Sakurai not necessarily picking the most obvious one but instead pick a character that will surprise us. And I'm pretty sure that it will be an optimistic surprise. If I was feeling more pessimistic I would put in Gen 8 Pokémon.

Xbox has been pushing hard to stay relevant with moves like buying Bethesda for way more than it was probably worth. They also got Master Chief in Fortnite recently and I bet that they would be very happy if Nintendo decided to put him into Smash. Microsoft already has two characters (Banjo and Steve) in already but they don't yet have their flagship rep in the game yet. I feel like if Master Chief would get in it would represent the cumulative good will between these two companies. The Chief is also very iconic and despite what people say about his popularity in Japan. I'm sure more people recognize him in Japan than we currently think even if most of them had never played a Halo game.

Noms to Stage: Tetris
 

NintenRob

Rising YouTuber
Writing Team
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Feb 8, 2014
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5,562
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Australia
NNID
trpdm.wilton
Copy and pasted from a gamefaqs thread i made

First of all I want to say something.

I think we're at the point where just about every character is about as unlikely as the next. I don't think we can really predict anything and truthfully this topic is basically throwing darts in the dark and I'm not even sure what I should be hitting.

But fighter pass 2 has been wild and thown everyone for a loop. So lets begin.

PREDICTION 1
Madeline from Celeste
WHY HER
Because the game was a popular hit that even got game of the year nomination. It left an impact on people. Also i just think we're getting a full fledged indie character and I think she has a lot going for her.
I have not played Celeste so I don't know what music she would bring but I imagine the stage would be the mountain she wants to climb.

PREDICTION 2
Melia
WHY HER?
Xenoblade Chronicles HD came out last year and the spotlight was on her in the epilogue, she's a popular character who offers a lot in terms of moveset and Xenoblade, even first one, has a lot of untapped potential. While I know Rex is the popular pick and I'd be happy with him too. I'm predicting someone from the first game again since its the most recent release, still regarded as the best and the first game is always the one to get call backs and references anyway. Melia also doesn't spoil a major plot point. This is definitely my most bias pick but this is a post on the internet, who honestly cares?

PREDICTION 3
Monster Hunter
WHY THEM
Probably closest thing to a safe pick. I imagine they'll want to promote Monster Hunter Rise similar to how they promoted Dragon Quest 11, the Rise armour will be Default but more legacy armour will be available as alts. Rathalos has been in the game at launch but the mii outfit has been missing. I don't actually think its much evidence but I wanted it pointed out. Monster Hunter has a legacy proven by its presence in Smash and I just think its the right, maybe it would have been in sooner, but Capcom saw an opportunity to promote a game instead and asked Nintendo to time it with Rise. Purely speculation, no evidence for that, but what else is there


All my Noms on Carmen Sandiego
 

Blankiturayman

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
459
I'm not changing my list much this time, other than cutting out Geno for obvious reasons. There's another character I'll change though. That being said I'll get into it, this is always pretty difficult to discern.

Rayman
Ubisoft has already pushed content into the game in one form or another, despite making two of its biggest franchises Mii Costumes, Rayman is absent in that aspect, I feel there could be something else coming. He'd mainly happen due to the longstanding relationship if he does due to there not being many new games out for him these days, unless you were to count Rayman Mini or such, which actually got updated just today, adding the main villain of Rayman 1 who had not seen an appearance since that very game, Pretty curious. Ubisoft pushed for him a lot as well a while ago but has since gone nearly silent about it. Though of course that just tends to happen. He's made non-playable appareances since Smash 4, so I feel he could get an actual playable appareance at any time.

Phoenix Wright
The recent happenings with Capcom aside, I feel he's got good odds. I understand feeling tired by the "big connection to Nintendo" point being mentioned often for him, but it's there, and I definitely think it can help. That said, I also feel it isn't the only thing helping him, as AA while not extremely big, has made itself quite a beloved series, often being many people's first view into "visual novels". Even if they haven't played it, a lot of stuff regarding it is pretty iconic, much like the court screams. They'd be perfect for a reval opener or midway through. AA as it is, is also completely missing in Smash at the moment, which could go for many franchises yes, but I'd say this is a relatively known one to omit at least for Nintendo considering what other stuff has been added, like the RE spirit event.

Reimu Hakurei
Reimu, and in turn Touhou, are pretty big over in Japan. Being one of the longstanding indie/doujinshi series, it's got a long legacy and fandom to boot. I could see this character bringing a completely new appeal to Smash as well in case Nintendo wanted to go for it. Touhou has been making its way into western places as well little by little, with fangames even being sold on Switch, although as of yet there are no official games. I'll make mention of a port of one fighting game that was mentioned long ago, but we haven't heard anything about it since, so it's not all that there. That being said, I think Reimu could get in purely due to the popularity in Japan and the "indie" factor. There's a lot of that content in Smash already and no fighter.

There it is. As a closer, this time there's what I'd call, a huge net for possible candidates, so there's no way I'm getting all of this right with clear cut choices. For example, instead of Rayman, maybe they'd add Crash. Maybe they'd have both. Maybe it'd be Monster Hunter instead of Phoenix Wright. Or anyone from Capcom as there's just too many candidates there. Maybe none of them would make it and it'd be an entirely different selection. I actually don't feel Nintendo-owned characters are unlikely either despite not adding them, just choose not to this time. Many have their merits. Same goes for other companies like Bandai Namco or SEGA or what-have-you.


Last time I had a huge list for honorable mentions but I think I'll keep it this way this time. As I mentioned, it's a pretty huge net.

My nominations will go to Worms (x30) if I got all the 30.
 
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Lionfranky

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
1,043
Agumon

I can see Sakurai picking this series as sleeper's pick. He did start his career developing virtual pet inspired by likes of Tamagochi and Digimon. So, it would be interesting to see how Sakurai covers virtual pet history. Digimon is making comeback with new anime reboot. Bandai Namco is long overdue for their second rep. It's Bandai side that needs representation. People underestimate how big Digimon is. In terms of revenue, it's their second highest revenue earning franchise after Pacman. Sure, much of revenue comes from merchandise besides games, but it's still hard to ignore. New Digimon games came out on Switch not too long ago.

Dante

I think Dante has edge over Phoenix Wright and Monster Hunter for different reason. Against Phoenix Wright, DMC is a much bigger series. In Japan, Dante get more votes. Monster Hunter is Capcom's most successful franchsie to date. But, there is one issue. Apparently, MH developers still dislike Hunter being playable in MVCI. I doubt Sakurai or Nintendo would go that far to disrepect their opinion. They would already know how much the developers hate idea of playable Hunter. DMC is one of genre defining games. Along with its success and legacy, DMC should definitely have Sakurai's attention. It's not saying other two candidates lack these qualities. But, I feel Dante has edge on these. Also, Sakurai should be aware that realistic gun doesn't affect rating. Go look at CERO's website. There is no firearm label. Same goes to other rating boards.

Master Chief

I think there is high possibility that MS would've offered Steve and MC at the same time. "You can only get Steve if you guarantee spot for Chief as well." I think this could've happened. That can be reason why FP2 has one more slot. Minecraft and Halo fanbase greatly differ, so there is no overlap. Microsoft has been aggressively pushing Xbox while putting their properties on Nintendo system. With MC in Fortnite, who's to say they will stop right there? I would be surprised if Chief wasn't brought during negotiation at all. I seriously doubt Nintendo would scoff at this offer just because of Japan. It's still massive franchise. It's not like most of Smash players are already fans of all those dlc series.

Nom: 3rd party company gets more than one fighter in the same pass x 30
 

waddledeeonredyoshi

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
1,540
Location
Drenthe, NL
Oh yeah, predictions...
Truth to be told, I've kinda giving up on trying to accurately predict the rest of this pass. I keep hearing the likes "Yeah, Crash/Rex/Hayabusa is definitely the next character" (not trying to call anyone out here) only for Sakurai to hit us with characters like Terry, Min Min and Sephiroth, kinda proving there are no such things as locks or safe picks. I myself used to believe Travis Touchdown was a near shoe-in untill that Mii Costume showed up. At that point I was just along for the ride. So if I can't give any legitimate guesses as to who Nintendo will go for, it becomes hard to not fill in the rest of the pass with my own personal biases. So that's exactly what I'm doing here. Posting again about the three characters in my signature. Moreso just making the case for them than explaining why they will happen 99% for sure. Hope you don't mind that. Fortunately they do seem to fit the Small third-party>Big third-party>First party pattern others are predicting.

The Knight
What many see as the next deluxe Mii costume I see as a serious sleeper pick. With millions of sales, praising critiques, a big following and an anticipated sequel, Hollow Knight has become on the biggest recent succes stories in the indie genre. And Nintendo caught on early (or atleast NoA did) giving it attention at E3 2018 and they've shown they're fond of it by showcasing Silksong at E3 2019 as well as highlighting Team Cherry as a partner at a Switch presentation in China. Considering all that and looking at the treatment Undertale and Cuphead got it becomes hard to imagine Ultimate DLC ending without some form of HK content. While it can easily be argued that it will have the same fate as those other, I do find it a bit weird that three packs after the Cuphead costume it still has yet to happen. The longer we go without it, the less ludricous the idea of a fighter becomes, atleast to me. I get that if Shantae and Shovel Knight couldn't become fighters that people would not be confident in the vessel but those deconfirms felt more like a Sakurai decision than a Nintendo one. Hollow Knight's popular, probably at its peak when this pass was decided, and it would be fairly cheap to get since Team Cherry is basically 3 or 4 people. Nintendo just dismissing it just on the base that its Indie wouldn't make sense. This is definitely a gut feeling but if there was an opportunity to add the Knight to Smash as a fighter, this would be the opportunity because this "now or never" factor is what got other characters in Smash in the past.

Rayman
I still firmly believe in the strong Nintendo/Ubisoft relationship plus the decent fan demand being enough to pull Rayman over the finish line. Some argue that Rayman wouldn't be the pick even if Ubi got a character, but given the trophies in Wii U as well as the Spirit, I'm certain Ubisoft would be pushing for him. Despite it all, confidence in Rayman amongst the community has really dropped as of late due to Japanese unpopularity, general dormancy, Ubisoft Mii costume and people just generally jumping ship to Crash Bandicoot. While I understand the arguments against him, I have voiced my opinion on those aspects in previous days, not seeing them as huge dealbreakers. (except that last part maybe, I won't try to argue Rayman is as likely or likelier than Crash. I don't have a death wish) I'll go ahead and admit that my expectation for Rayman is hugely based on some tinfoil hat rumor stuff that many people disagree with but even if it wasn't for that fluff Rayman remains a character I refuse to count out.

Bandana Waddle Dee
You know it. Like many I'm expecting one more Nintendo owned character, and while he's definitely not the only viable pick, I can't help to just stick to the little dude. He's one of the few major first-party fan request from a series still thriving. HAL reportedly has some big plans for the Kirby franchise ahead and if that includes the next big Kirby project, almost definitely starring Dee, the timing may be just right. And frankly, I doubt that things like "Sakurai bias" and "boring moveset" are going to hold him back. Hopefully the process will just be as simple as HAL asking for him to be put in the game. He still has to compete with the likes of Rex, a Gen 8 Pokemon and Walugi, imo the only other characters on his level. However, considering the Mii costume, Spirit event and Assist Trophy retrospectively I would give Dee the slight advantage.

I'm strapping myself to these three untill Character 9 will sadly slap me across the face with a dose of reality.

Monokuma: 6.79%
Henry Stickmin x30
 
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JOJONumber691

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
1,791
My predictions for the Final Three:
Euden: Dragalia Lost would only benefit from a Smash Fighter, and I believe Nintendo knows this. Euden would be insanely unique, with a Dragon Transformation different from Corrin, Fire and Wind Abilities, and even a unique world to come with as well. I think Nintendo, Cy, and Sakurai all know that Euden would be a great marketing pick. Euden in Smash would only drum up more interest in Dragalia, thus causing more games to be made with Dragalia as an IP. Also they were behind Byleth's Remix so there's that as well lol. Only problem I could see is a Lack of European Presence, but even then I don't see that getting Euden rejected. The IP isn't banned, just the Genre, it's not like how Mortal Kombat is banned in Germany and on Japanese Home Consoles. Sure, some Europeans may be wondering who he is, but that would also cause more curiosity about Dragalia Lost as a whole.




Ryu Hayabusa: Koei Tecmo and Nintendo have a great relationship, Hayabusa would bring a Unique World to Smash, His Main Competition (Hyrule Warriors) is Dead, and they have developed Five Games for the Big N, one of which is a New IP, and Two of Which are Somewhat Canon to their respective series. Getting Mainline Treatment for Zelda is no easy feat let me tell you. What hasn't been said about Ryu Hayabusa already? I think he's in personally. Heck, Koei Tecmo is already in the GAME with Fatal Frame! Yeah, Hayabusa is definitely a Character I'm just expecting to see at this point. Not an If, but a When for me.




I'm expecting our last Fighter to be someone from 2021. Anticlimatic, but our last character being someone deliberately newer than the rest of the Roster at the time is a Trend. Corrin in Smash 4's DLC, Incineroar in Ultimate's Base Game, and Byleth in Volume 1. My guesses at the moment is someone from whatever Kirby has in store, Pokemon if they're desperate, New Horizons Islander could be in just because Nintendo would want that money in Smash. SMTV could be incredibly interesting if ATLUS wants it. I definitely think we're going to get another Character in a similar vain to Byleth, just don't know who lol.


Captain Toad would be here instead of Euden, but after December I don't see it lol.
 

Commander_Alph

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PASS 2 PREDICTION: LAST HALF

sigh This is going to be tough, there's a lot of character with unlimited possible but this Pass already lack an extra space to fit in those 10+ character and with how little information we have now means that it's not easy on paper. Knowing myself I like to play dangerous because I knew that everytime a character is being mentioned as a "safe pick" it will absolutely backfired horribly. So anyway this is my prediction on the last 3 character and see if it's sticks to the wall.



Zhao Yun/Lu Bu

Yep, while everyone still dangling around Hayabusa as the MVP in this prediction (no hard feelings) I come into these conclusion that the Dynasty Warriors series have an actual chance if not more than Ninja Gaiden to be represent the Koei-Tecmo company. Firstly, and mostly the obvious thing is that legacy can't bring you anywhere without both party agreeing and AFAIK, the only thing that Nintendo and Koei-Tecmo agree about is that the Warriors series is really profitable and after the success of Age of Calamity I could see Nintendo all these years negotiating just to pay tribute to the series and it's no surprise that even a series like Bayonetta got the upper hand because Nintendo is kindly involved with publishing the game on the Wii U (which is a smaller scale than their collaboration with KT and it's still works!) and we all know that we expecting Dante moreso than her to be our Hack n' Slash Rep first. And not only that, without the Dynasty Warriors series they couldn't agree with Bamco, SEGA, and even Square Enix to make a spin-off for series like One Piece, Gundam (both IP hold by Bandai), Dragon Quest and recently Persona 5. It's feels like everyone forgetting that Dynasty Warriors is also their flagship IP and in hindsight, very important to the company on building a relationship with other as the Musou formula is easily copy and pasted, not to mention that Dynasty Warriors is the first series to create that mechanic, so they're on a high ground.




Reimu

So far there's no clear pattern between character Pass 1 and 2 but if I may for certain there's a spot for our Shrine Maiden. Let me explain, we already know Touhou has such a big fandom in the Land of the Rising Sun or if you want to be blunt, the series popularity is a tad bit below Dragon Quest popularity, what helps the series strife is with its fan creation like Manga/Doujinshi, Animation, and Music which slowly leaked out through the internet and has become the Darling of it. This thing also helped ZUN spread the message about Touhou throughout the world and has been saying this multiple time so it's a good moment for Nintendo to approach him and ask for an approval which is not much of a hassle since he's pretty A-Okay with Copyright, I mean even if it's too late when this happened why won't Nintendo want Reimu in from a series who have collaborated with Sanrio, Japan's biggest company and brand in the world? Other than that while there's exist a multiple Touhou game on the eShop (which proves that Nintendo don't give an F about fan content from other series not owned by them) these are all fangames but has not yet been any official release, the closest thing we get is the recent games on Steam (which is not that hard to access) but there's still a possibility that Reimu inclusion could be a tie in release with whatever game they want to port, maybe an all-in-1 release of the old games or a Switch exclusive, who knows?



Honorable Mention
Bamco Character, Preferably Agumon

If only Bamco wasn't being a goodie two shoes and just let every company take their seat first I would just don't give an F and let everyone slide but the problem is that they're brave enough to sold the likes of Tekken and Tales into a Mii Costume, so I'm predicting that they have to go big or go home and my prediction is Agumon from Digimon, I don't want to be that guy but so far we only got a representation from the Namco era and doesn't notice that there's a word "Bandai" on "Bandai Namco" whom which compliment each other like Square Enix and Digimon fit that bill really well, thought the reason why I put it here is simply because the grayness that is on whether or not Virtual Pets is a video game which we'll see if Sakurai handle that.






A Popular Third Party pick, Maybe Crash Bandicoot Idk

While I mostly talk about underdog character I can't deny it that there's still a room for 1 big franchise that resonate with everyone, I could go with Dante or Monster Hunter (if their Mii Costume didn't exist in Smash 4 or included in the base game just like Lloyd), so my bets goes to Crash Bandicoot since we gotta get passed E3 with a hype inclusion. I can't add much anything that the usual "he's an icon", "Activision has been really cooperative with Nintendo" and of course "perfectly filled the trifecta of Mario, Sonic and Crash, old console rivals".


Noms: Danganronpa Protagonist 10×
 
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Ridrool64

Smash Lord
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I've previously written my full thoughts and predictions here, which will go into much more detail overall than I am about to here.

Condensed, but still lengthy version:

I believe that our next few characters will have one thing in common with the previous three: basically having nothing in common with the previous three. The Fighter's Pass has been about diversity in many ways this time, even if not immediately obvious. This includes owning company, except Nintendo and including Sora, so don't expect me to discuss Master Chief. I am including Assist Trophies, but Rex is the only non-base game Mii Costume I am including and I am not including most post-launch Spirits.

Challenger Pack 9 - This one is likely to be revealed relatively soon, actually! With no big event tied to it, and how the hype train tends to slow down after the spectacular opening and middle, I'm expecting something of a small drop in hype level. These guys might be a bit more regional, too. Characters along the lines of SEGA's Arle, Sakura and relatively Kiryu, Capcom's Amaterasu or Morrigan, or from new companies Falcom's Adol Christin. I don't expect a first party next, mostly because DLC trends towards third parties but I wouldn't rule one out here.

Challenger Pack 10 - Since the plan seems to have been always intended to be spread out to 2021, that means it's likely that this fellow is our E3 2021 character. Smash reveals... Melee itself, :bowsermelee:, Brawl itself,:wario::snake: Smash 4 itself, Smash 4 being Smash 3DS and Smash Wii U, :4megaman::4pacman::4ryu: everyone is here, :ultridley::ulthero::ultbanjokazooie:... at E3 tend to be pretty well received, first or third party, especially by fandoms overall. 2020 was the only year not to have had an E3 reveal as there was no E3 and the June reveal Min Min was considered rather weak. It is believed, however, that Steve was intended as the E3 2020 reveal and COVID fudged everything up. As a result I expect this character to be the token big guy, but on an arguably smaller, different scale than Steveroth. Characters like Dr. Eggman, Monster Hunter, Chun-Li, Agumon, or basically any western third party.

Challenger Pack 11 - Nintendo usually wraps things up with a first party, with Corrin being the last newcomer to be developed for Smash 4 (even if his reveal predates Bayonetta's) and Byleth closing the first Volume. Heck, even Piranha Plant might count as the final reveal before Ultimate's release. So I expect this trend to continue as it fits with the descending hype pattern... mostly. There's standouts like Rex and Waluigi, and not as big standouts but still standouts like Bandana Waddle Dee or Dixie Kong, who could rival smaller third parties (and Waluigi goes toe to toe with the best of the best).

TLDR version:
  • Challenger Pack 9 will be a small third party. Revealed Feb-April, launches April-June.
  • Challenger Pack 10 will be a big third party. Revealed around June, launches in August.
  • Challenger Pack 11 will be a first party. Revealed around October-November, launches in November-December.
  • Challenger Pack 11 is the final main new content update for Smash Ultimate, though Mii Costumes and Spirit events continue onwards a bit longer.
Gun to my head (if I have to say who will be our next three) predictions: Arle & Carbuncle, Somebody from TF2 (eyeing Scout, Pyro, Demoman, Heavy and Spy), and Waluigi. I think Crash and Hayabusa among others are probably red herrings. We're traditionally very bad at getting them right, and a lot of the characters that have been happening are characters who feel like joke picks or awesome but impossible back during their time (in fact I'd say the whole set of Ultimate DLC except Hero and maybe Terry, and to the cynic Byleth. You could even make the argument for all the Ultimate newcomers, except Inkling/Isabelle/Incineroar).

Arle: A lot of things are lining up in her favor but it's genuinely a case of wait and see. Japan's already walked away with somebody who you could say is big there, being Sephiroth, but I don't think another would hurt. SEGA's promoting the series hard in the west, and anniversaries don't factor into reveal timings but I feel like the best case can be made for this year. Wouldn't be surprised.

TF2 rep: I'll explain more during their day why I think they're a genuine sleeper pick not to be underestimated, but I'll set up some foreshadowing. The big issue is wondering if Nintendo would go for it; I don't think Valve's neglect, Gordon Freeman or TF2's content (which is a few swears and gibs, come on) are nearly as big of problems, even if not something to sweep under the rug entirely. The former two are countered by Banjo, the latter by Joker and Bayonetta. The big thing that has me keeping an eye on them is the amazing level of fan popularity TF2 has in non-bubble Smash circles (see Steve and Sephiroth), with Heavy being the most wanted fan request (not of the mercs, not of Valve, not of third parties, but period) in the biggest sample size groups I can find, and in the most active one 6 of the classes are all ranked very high. There's more, but I don't want to spoil it here and now.

Waluigi: A big, climactic finish to SSBU for the casual fans, and a soggy fart to the hardcore ones. Waluigi's a case of big upsides at a few minor downsides and one almost single-handedly crushing one. But we've often had characters who felt like never evers actually pull it off beyond all reason, so I don't think Nintendo really cares about Waluigi's Assist Trophy.

And no, this isn't a wishlist disguised as a prediction list. That would be Arle/Crash/Lloyd out of everybody who I think is still realistic... ish. Pure pie in the sky, Arle/Crash/Henry.
 

waddledeeonredyoshi

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The big thing that has me keeping an eye on them is the amazing level of fan popularity TF2 has in non-bubble Smash circles (see Steve and Sephiroth), with Heavy being the most wanted fan request (not of the mercs, not of Valve, not of third parties, but period) in the biggest sample size groups I can find, and in the most active one 6 of the classes are all ranked very high. There's more, but I don't want to spoil it here and now.
Aren't you referring here to that one fan poll that was heavily brigated by the TF2 subreddit and discords and whatever? Calling the Heavy the most requested character period doesn't really seem fair when only basing it on that. Heck, in the Source Gaming poll he only ranked 24th.
 
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Inue Houji

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Oct 8, 2020
Messages
267
Pass predictions

Lloyd Irving

This is the one I'm most confident on. There's breadcrumbs all over, but it's also just a gut feeling. First you got the still unknown NDA project of Scott Menville, Lloyd's voice actor.
Then there's the trademarked logos eerily similar to the style used in Smash, which were filed just a month after FP2 was announced. There's the Chun-Li/Tales rumor, in which Tales was considered for base game. Lastly, there's the delay of the Tales anniversary to March, which coincides with the predicted announcement of the next DLC character.


Ryu Hayabusa
A relatively safe pick, but one I wasn't that confident in until recently.
He of course has the advantage of being a NES classic, which is a big boon. He also has a critically acclaimed hack n' slash reboot. Speaking of the reboot, the trilogy has been revealed to be getting a rerelease/remaster for the Switch via accidental game listings.
This is the big clincher for me honestly. This combined with the early rumors/leaks for Ultimate leaves me fairly confident in Hayabusa getting in.


Gen "9" Pokémon
No, I didn't mistype, I mean gen 9.
I'm honestly stumped on any other characters, as there are no one else I am particularly confident in. So I'm going with a daring prediction.

Now, as we all have probably figured out by now, the last character is always going to be the shill pick. Frontload the pass, so people buy it, then leave your free marketing for last.
This time however, they're going to try something old with a new twist. Melmetal, as some of you may know, came from Pokémon GO, but you could transfer it to SwSh when it came out.
This time, they'll be doing the same, but with Smash. Get the Pokémon in Smash, and you'll get an exclusive Pokémon you can transfer to the next gen!

If I somehow get this right, I'll buy SwSh.


Predictions
Monokuma: 7.1%

Nominations
Rallen x30
 
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Brodemmars

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
197
My predictions for FP2, I'm just posting it here in case it happens but if it ends up being wrong then it ends up being wrong.

1. A Nintendo character (Cinderace)
Some people want to believe that the Gen 8 spirit event is a hard disconfirmation. Personally, I wouldn’t put it past Nintendo to give special treatment to Pokémon and Sakurai to save a spot on the pass given how popular the franchise is. These people are assuming that, like with Byleth, Sakurai would put off adding any spirits until the character is released. However (IMO) the problem with this theory is that people would quickly catch on. If a major franchise like Pokémon didn’t release any spirits then it would be too obvious that a gen 8 Pokémon would be coming to FP2. Beside if Gen 8 was deconfirmed then you’d think they would have at least given out more Gen 8 Pokemon spirits later on like Urshifu and Calyrex when the Pokemon DLC came out but instead we got nothing. Out of all of the Gen 8 Pokemon, I'd say that Cinderace has the best shot being added as it's evolution line is both popular and has seen plenty of special treatment in both the games and anime.

Reveal prediction: any time between the posting of this prediction to E3, since from my observations Nintendo DLC characters are generally revealed and/or released during the first half of the year.


2. Crash Bandicoot
I'm not going to repeat much of what people have already said in favor of Crash, but I will say that it would make sense for Crash to be in Smash. He's a major gaming icon and I have no doubts that Nintendo would be able to negotiate with his owners to add him into Smash.

Reveal prediction: most likely at E3. Crash is a highly, highly requested character and thus it would make sense to reveal him at E3.


3. Ryu Hayabusa
Company connections play a significant role in a third-party character's chances of being added to Smash, since Nintendo has been letting Koei Tecmo work with their IPs I feel that Ryu H. has a strong chance of being chosen to represent his company in Smash.

Reveal prediction: either at the 2021 Game Awards or in Nov/Dec 2021
 

SharkLord

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However (IMO) the problem with this theory is that people would quickly catch on. If a major franchise like Pokémon didn’t release any spirits then it would be too obvious that a gen 8 Pokémon would be coming to FP2.
Seeing as the majority of the playerbase aren't likely to pay that much attention to Spirit Events-Or speculation trends in general, really-I don't think Nintendo would care too much about throwing people off the trail or anything.
 

TCT~Phantom

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TCT~Phantom
Seeing as the majority of the playerbase aren't likely to pay that much attention to Spirit Events-Or speculation trends in general, really-I don't think Nintendo would care too much about throwing people off the trail or anything.
My thoughts on Spirit events like this though is that it is less of Nintendo throwing people off the trail or chasing a trend and moreso that this could have been content in a Fighters Pass.

For me, it is important to look at the timing of a spirit event to consider whether it has an effect on DLC. Let's say we are assuming for the sake of argument that there would be a third pass. Would a spirit event for Pokemon or Astral Chain or Ring Fit matter then, when the DLC likely wouldnt have even been planned out? Or would it matter more depending on when we got it? This is part of the reason I am not confident in any of those franchises for this pass. Why would they not just hold Ring Fit Spirits back for a Ring Fit character? Or hold back the Astral Chain Spirits for Officer Howard?

Obviously, there is a ton of content that could be represented alongside what we got. Part of why people still are relatively confident in a Gen 8 pokemon is that we really only got a small handful of spirits when we have plenty of pokemon to make a new spirit event. But for me, the fact we got all of these spirit events either right around or after the DLC for FP2 was determined means in my eyes that it is not super likely for this pass. God I would love to be wrong because Officer Howard is one of my most wanted choices, but it does not look good in my eyes.
 

Icedragonadam

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SW-5227-6397-6112
1. Chun-Li. One of the most iconic women of gaming, being the first lady of fighting games. And if a certain rumor is to be believed, she was planned but was scrapped because of time constraints. And would fit in with the 2nd chances theory. Street Fighter II's anniversary is in March which is when CP9 is expected to be released because of amiibo. There's also the fact that 99% of the Street Fighter content, especially the music is from SFII only with some Alpha and III spirits. If going by Sephiroth then perhaps further SF content that would expand beyond II was deliberately held back to be sold with a SF Challenger pack. This is also the only major crossover game RYU is in but Chun-Li is not, she's always follow Ryu in crossovers, even in Power Rangers.

2. Tales Rep(leaning on Lloyd or Yuri). One of the few iconic JRPGs that doesn't have a playable character yet. They're part of the same rumor as Chun-li that has a lot more going for it compared to other rumors. Tales Of is also the only series that got a DLC mii costume in 4 to having absolutely no content in the base game and would further back up the rumor as FFVII content was deliberately held back for Sephiroth's pack and Three Houses not getting a spirit event on Three Houses's release.

3. Ryu Hayabusa. An NES icon, and Koei Tecmo has no character despite helping out with Nintendo in developing games. His chances are strengthened by Verge mentioning talks with Nintendo.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Time to run down the final 3 characters of Vol 2.

Something that comes to mind about DLC is how most characters within both Fighter Passes were 1s with a great amount of doubt behind them just enough for people not to consider them possibilities. Looking into most people's predictions today makes me realize how many people are predicting the same set of characters from a rather small pond when Ultimate is an ocean of endless possibilities. I'm also guilty of this since these 3 have been the characters I've been predicting since the announcement of an ARMS fighter coming to Smash, but 2/3 of them aren't as speculated as hard as others, so I'll get the most predictable choice out of the way.

1:
A Gen 8 Pokemon (Pokemon: Sword and Shield)

Quite frankly, this is the only choice out of the 3 with a lot of discussion around it, but as I said before, Nintendo will choose 1 of their inhouse characters that debuted after Ultimate's launch. The only candidate that makes the most sense is a Pokemon from Sword and Shield at the moment with the amount of promotion it got prior to its release to the success it's gotten after launch. Sure, you could argue that spirit event and Poke-themed Tourney would diminish their chances, but when you compare to the other Spirit Events around newly released games, Sword and Shield got both of those within the same time as its release whereas other games like Astral Chain, Ring Fit Adventure, and Age of Calamity got theirs months after their release. Unlike the aforementioned games, Sword and Shield's events can be seen as a means to promote the release of the game more than it being too late to the party, so I can see a Gen 8 Pokemon being chosen for Smash. It has already established itself as a successful entry to Pokemon since launch, so in Nintendo's eyes, adding a Gen 8 Pokemon will be seen more as recognition rather than promotion by the time their challenger pack launches (even though most people will see it as shilling anyways). Now, I have no idea who they could possibly choose, so that's why I'm only saying a Gen 8 Pokemon instead of an actual pokemon like Dracovish.

2:
Zhao Yun (Dynasty Warriors)

A great amount of arguments in favor of Ninja Gaiden in Smash can go the same way for Dynasty Warriors from Koei-Tecmo's partnerships with Nintendo to both being staple franchises of their company. In all honesty, I could say both franchises could be in Vol 2 if it wasn't for how unlikely it looks for a 3rd Party Publisher to get 2 characters in 1 Pass (though if Koei-Tecmo happens to be the 1 to get it, I have no complaints). While Dynasty Warriors doesn't have the certain lineage of being a classic title from the NES era like Ninja Gaiden, what it does have is its own legacy of the Musou genre and the certainty of there being more DW titles down the line in the future like DW9: Empires and beyond. Despite Dynasty Warriors not having many crossovers themselves, the Musou formula has proven itself to be successful under various other IPs, most notably Legend of Zelda and One Piece. In fact, Musou as a whole is a huge staple of Koei-Tecmo, and with Dynasty Warriors essentially being the series to start it all coupled with various other things, It'd be no wonder why Nintendo chose to add Dynasty Warriors to Smash. Most of the people that argue against the series being possible say it's because the games are based around real people, real events that took place, and a novel, but that doesn't change the fact that Dynasty Warriors has always been a video game franchise with Koei-Tecmo's spin on these things. It's not like there's some sort of legal bindings to any of that stuff either cause if there was there wouldn't be as much games based around that era of China. Plus, you have to think Dynasty Warriors' gameplay can be implemented into Smash and work especially if you made a concept of Impa's moveset based around Hyrule Warriors' version of her made up.

Of course, most people will probably wonder why Zhao Yun would be chosen over Lu Bu or a lot of other characters in the series, but it's really not all that hard to think why. He's the de-facto face of Dynasty Warriors as he's been Dynasty Warriors covers the most. The main reason he has always been the face of the series comes from the accolades of his real life and novel self with his most notable feat being in the Battle of Changban where he rescued Liu Bei's son amidst the mass numbers of Wei's forces. Plus, the Japanese audiences have him ranked very high among popularity polls even when he isn't #1, so put 2 and 2 together, Zhao Yun's the most likely candidate to rep Dynasty Warriors.

3:
Billy and Jimmy (Double Dragon)

Double Dragon is an iconic series from the NES days, and when you think of retro characters, Billy and Jimmy are about as retro as you can get. Not only is it iconic, it's also a game with a genre currently unrepresented VIA playable fighter: the Beat 'Em Up genre. Whenever most people think of unrepresented genres in Smash, the Beat 'Em Up genre is 1 that gets overlooked. Double Dragon is 1 of the staple Beat 'Em Up games of all time, and that could also be 1 of the reasons why the series could look more favorable for Nintendo over the likes of Ninja Gaiden and Contra. A short thing to bring up is the Kunio-Kun Spirit Event that happened last year since it's ASW's only content in Smash currently. Apparently, Kunio-Kun predates Double Dragon but wasn't considerably as popular as the latter was in the west, so if that's the case, it's understandable why Kunio-Kun got a Spirit Event even if it isn't the main reason why it did. While Double Dragon is considerably less popular than it used to be, the nostalgic value is there in adding them, and Nintendo would get quite a bunch of things out of adding Billy and Jimmy to Smash.

Honorable Mention 1: Zagreus (Hades)

Zagreus gets an honorable mention because while there are some things that don't point in favor of him like being a considerably newer title, there's a reason the game has been getting overwhelmingly positive reviews. In short, it's a very polished game where about every element of video games are interconnected to one another and is executed very well from story to gameplay. There are a few things to note about Hades that could point in favor of Zagreus in Smash, and 1 of those things is the fact it was revealed on the same day Joker was revealed for smash and came out as an Early Access title on the same day VIA Epic Games Store. There's a possibility Nintendo and Sakurai might have taken interest in the title enough for them to want Hades in Smash, and because Hades was an Early Access title, it makes it easier for them to obtain the game. Another thing to note is the devs Supergiant. Toby Fox and Studio MDHR have content in Smash VIA Mii Costumes, but the games involved just so happens to be their debuting titles Undertale and Cuphead respectively. Despite both games being huge hits, maybe Nintendo didn't consider adding the games VIA Challenger Packs because they both need some more time to establish their reputation in the gaming industry. Meanwhile, Supergiant have been around longer in the gaming scene than both to be seen as a fairly established Indie Studio, and they have 3 considerably acclaimed titles prior to Hades: Bastion, Transistor, and Pyre. Perhaps that's enough for Nintendo to take interest in wanting Hades in Smash because Supergiant does have a credible track record of highly praised games around them and have been around the scene for quite some time. The last thing to note is the console exclusivity it has with the Switch. I don't know how long it was in the works for, but Switch exclusivity could be seen as a pretty favorable point given Bayonetta 2 was also console exclusive to the Wii U. Despite the timing not being in its favor, these things alongside the incredibly high amount of positive reception around Hades could potentially get itself a Challenger Pack.

Honorable Mention 2:
Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)

In short, Ninja Gaiden has its merits as I mentioned before. It has the NES background factor to it, and Ninja Gaiden has been noted to influence many of Team Ninja's work. That Ninja Gaiden Sigma Trilogy is also looking more and more real as time goes on as well, so when it eventually gets unveiled, it'll get people more aware of the modern Ninja Gaiden games than before. These things make Hayabusa about as possible as Zhao Yun is in terms of a K-T rep.

And that's it. I won't put stock into characters for Vol 3 since I don't believe it's happening, so there's no need to predict what could come from that.

-------------
Predictions:
Ducky Momokuma - 8%

-------------
Noms:
A Challenger Pack With 2 Fighters x30
 

Commander_Alph

Smash Lord
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Mar 20, 2019
Messages
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I gotta say, the big surprise for me from the last day's ratings has been Agumon. I genuinely had no idea that people found this character so likely.
I just think that it will be pretty interesting if they decided to do the same with Square Enix, we got Pac-Man from Namco and we got Agumon from Bandai, put it together and we got Bandai Namco.
 

Pillow

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I just think that it will be pretty interesting if they decided to do the same with Square Enix, we got Pac-Man from Namco and we got Agumon from Bandai, put it together and we got Bandai Namco.
Yeah it'll definitely be interesting, but I'm not so sure I'd agree that he's likely. I'm a fan of Agumon and all, I used to love Digimon so seeing Agumon face off against Pikachu for the first time ever would be amazing. It's just I feel like he's not even the most likely candidate from his Bandai-Namco (Not gonna bother separating them because Smash mostly cares about the characters themselves over the companies they come from) falling behind both Tekken and Tales.

It's cool to see people think so differently though. I was also surprised to see so much Dynasty Warriors on these lists, especially given that so many people consider Hayabusa such an obvious inclusion.
 

ArkSPiTFirE

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Oct 18, 2018
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Its so haaard, so I've got to just go with who I'd like to see and have the best chance. I'm 100% sure there's going to be a character I never thought about, so I can't really plop that into my post. I also want to predict who I'd like to see, not who I think is likely but wouldn't really like to see. That's just no fun and I end up regretting it.

FP9 - Fighter: Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney) - Capcom
I'm not certain on what the team would be able to deliver for this one, but I simply see the Ace Attorney as a hype 3rd party that's very well known and a good fit for Smash for a number of reasons. His genre is very much untouched in Smash representation. That's not a good enough reason on his own but it's a nice thing to consider. What actually has the most going for him is his gaming legacy, and I think that's one of the most important things for the roster team. He can translate a lot of personality for Smash, the challenge would be in his moveset, and not simply copying the MvC version. Along with the fighter pass will be the Monster Hunter Mii costume we've been waiting for.

FP10 - Fighter: Crash Bandicoot - Activision
Not much to say about Crash other than I think he's such a good fit for Smash. Both in design and his legacy. He's a cartoony, wacky character that goes back to when gaming companies were really fighting for mascots. Crash nearly got up there with Mario and Sonic. He didn't really last but he felt like he was one of the big 3 to represent Sony. But even his game appearances are many and his recent success make him more desirable to those who care about investments. Where Crash might fall short is whether Nintendo are happy to make a deal with Activision.His popualrity in Japan might play a little part but I don't think it's too important. Didn't really formulate this paragraph very well, but he's just pretty high in characters that have a good shot, but not certain.

FP11 - Fighter: Isaac (Golden Sun)- Nintendo/Camelot
Yes, the last Nintendo owned character in the pass, and maybe all of Ultimate. I'll always advocate for him to join the battle, as I've been hoping for so long now. I don't care about dead game and assist trophy status. If Nintendo decide its worth representing Golden Sun in Smash with a fighter, stage and Broken Seal music finally, then they won't hesitate to put Isaac in. It's still a tall ask. They might be satisfied with the Assist Trophy and spirits, but given what ought to be coming, I hope Nintendo see the opportunity to make Golden Sun explode. He's not definite, but if we get some kind of game announcement before summer, his chances go right up for me. He's already the most likely pick out of Nintendo series that aren't already represented. Also the pack will be a beautiful collection of Golden Sun, along with Lloyd's Mii costume return. At least I hope so because I think they would be friends.
 

7NATOR

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
4,089
I Don't feel like writing much, So I'll just lay down my Predictions


CP9: Scorpion from Mortal Kombat

-Iconic, Popular
-Ed Boon wanted him in since 2015
-Ryu Amiibo theory, Street Fighter vs Mortal Kombat would be selling point that be used
-Small fanbase in Japan that imports the games, despite it not being sold there regularly


CP10: Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X

-Lack of Content from X in particular, with only Spirits
-2010's Tournament theory, there wasn't 2010 tournament, despite Min Min and Steve being in the game (Steve classified by 2011 Java release). Elma originated in 2015
-Would have Mech, which is very cool
-yes


CP11: Shadow the Hedgehog from Sonic the Hedgehog

-Iconic, Popular
-People love Sonic, 30th anniversary in 2021 in June, Sega loves licensing out
-Have ability to re-use assets, from Assist, to Sonic's Skeleton, but would still be Unique of course
-PapaGenos statement. He might not know what I'm talking about, but I do

Read this essay for Much more indepth look

 

SharkLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
7,728
Location
Pangaea, 250 MYA
Now, the disappointment pick has me guessing a Pokemon character to be added from Sword/Shield as promotion with the final smash being Gigantomaxing OR Llyod Irving! Get the pitchforks and boo me for saying this will be the 'disappointment pick' because I never played the series and I don't know anything about it, but he is the 'anime swordfighter' character most people don't like. Hero and Sephiroth get away with it more because Sephiroth has that FF7 clout and unqiue sword and style while Hero benefits from being the main star of the genre along with Akira Toriyama's artstyle. I look at Lloyd and I see 'Yeah, that is an anime swordfighter with probably a magic gimmick' that same way I saw Byleth and Corrin and how I see people wanting Issac as well. Which is why I think the last DLC slot will go to him.
Hero got away with it
Well...

Uh...

Let's just say there's a reason the "Hoes Mad" meme took off.
 

SharkLord

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
7,728
Location
Pangaea, 250 MYA
I'd say that is also partly because it was just a lazy copy of the previous meme.
Yeah, by that point it had been run into the ground. Hero started it (And occasionally shared it with Banjo), and Terry continued it with three different variants, but Three Houses had already used that meme before release and so Byleth didn't have any variants. Didn't help that they were by far the most divisive reveal, and the meme had been used for half a year at that point, so they ended up killing the meme.
 
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RouffWestie

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 27, 2013
Messages
1,246
Location
Georgia
Arle
She's been a high request in Japan for years, and is from a highly influential franchise to it's genre. Multiple Puyo games are available on the Switch, so she's an easy sell to the current playerbase. Of the biggest in-house SEGA IPs, Puyo Puyo is 2nd right underneath Sonic in sales.
Ryu Hayabusa
Ninja Gaiden fits alongside Castlevania and Mega Man as far as iconic NES franchises go. The series has been a decent success and Ryu himself has made guest appearances in many other games like Dead or Alive. Koei-Tecmo has also been heavily involved with Nintendo for decades, and especially in the current era where they've handled several Nintendo IPs, so I'd be surprised if they didn't get a new fighter in Smash.
Summoner (FE Heroes)
FE Heroes has been the biggest first-party-developed mobile success for Nintendo. I wouldn't be shocked if they celebrated how big it is by adding the avatar character in Smash. Though I'm not as confident in this character making it in, I think they're in the "first-party frontrunner duo" alongside Cinderace.
 

JCKirbs

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
365
Location
Dream Land
NNID
SuperMushroomU
Yeah, by that point it had been run into the ground. Hero started it (And occasionally shared it with Banjo), and Terry continued it with three different variants, but Three Houses had already used that meme before release and so Byleth didn't have any variants. Didn't help that they were by far the most divisive reveal, and the meme had been used for half a year at that point, so they ended up killing the meme.
I'm honestly pretty glad that it got axed by the general community while it did.
Fighter Pass Vol. 2 has been pretty good in my eyes so far, and it has been nice to see that not too many people were genuinely upset by any of the reveals (thus far) as well.

As of the now, the only time in which it's typically brought up is when Byleth has to be brought up for the umpteenth time, completely out of nowhere. :4pacman:
 

JOJONumber691

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
1,791
Arle
She's been a high request in Japan for years, and is from a highly influential franchise to it's genre. Multiple Puyo games are available on the Switch, so she's an easy sell to the current playerbase. Of the biggest in-house SEGA IPs, Puyo Puyo is 2nd right underneath Sonic in sales.
Ryu Hayabusa
Ninja Gaiden fits alongside Castlevania and Mega Man as far as iconic NES franchises go. The series has been a decent success and Ryu himself has made guest appearances in many other games like Dead or Alive. Koei-Tecmo has also been heavily involved with Nintendo for decades, and especially in the current era where they've handled several Nintendo IPs, so I'd be surprised if they didn't get a new fighter in Smash.
Summoner (FE Heroes)
FE Heroes has been the biggest first-party-developed mobile success for Nintendo. I wouldn't be shocked if they celebrated how big it is by adding the avatar character in Smash. Though I'm not as confident in this character making it in, I think they're in the "first-party frontrunner duo" alongside Cinderace.
Summoner has a problem though, and this isn't just a problem with their Series. It's that their silhouette is too similar to Robin, on top of a M A S S I V E Budget issue relating to the gimmick. It would simply cost too much to get 80 Customized Models into the Game JUST for One Character. I don't see it happening unless by some miracle Summoner is in the FEH Art Style.
 

Pillow

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Messages
1,268
Location
Los Angeles
I'm honestly pretty glad that it got axed by the general community while it did.
Fighter Pass Vol. 2 has been pretty good in my eyes so far, and it has been nice to see that not too many people were genuinely upset by any of the reveals (thus far) as well.
Well people were genuinely upset by Steve, it was just eclipsed by how many people were happy he was in.
 

SharkLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
7,728
Location
Pangaea, 250 MYA
Summoner has a problem though, and this isn't just a problem with their Series. It's that their silhouette is too similar to Robin, on top of a M A S S I V E Budget issue relating to the gimmick. It would simply cost too much to get 80 Customized Models into the Game JUST for One Character. I don't see it happening unless by some miracle Summoner is in the FEH Art Style.
1612385056752.png
1612385090485.png

Take away all color until they're just outlines and put them next to each other. A lot of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I'm not expecting another FE character in this pass, but "The silhouette is too similar" is honestly a really shallow reason dismiss someone's chances.
And why would they need eighty models? They'd probably just have the Summoner and about no more summoned units than the background cameos they put in - And if the KOF Stadium is any indication, that'd be a lot of units.
 

JOJONumber691

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
1,791
View attachment 301697View attachment 301698
Take away all color until they're just outlines and put them next to each other. A lot of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I'm not expecting another FE character in this pass, but "The silhouette is too similar" is honestly a really shallow reason dismiss someone's chances.
And why would they need eighty models? They'd probably just have the Summoner and about no more summoned units than the background cameos they put in - And if the KOF Stadium is any indication, that'd be a lot of units.
Ah yes. If silhouettes didn't matter then Luigi would likely have a completely different moveset with no connection to Mario at all. That and you dismissed my other point about how Summoner being a HUGE Budget Hassle because of how Heroes Operates.
 

SharkLord

Smash Hero
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Messages
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Pangaea, 250 MYA
Ah yes. If silhouettes didn't matter then Luigi would likely have a completely different moveset with no connection to Mario at all. That and you dismissed my other point about how Summoner being a HUGE Budget Hassle because of how Heroes Operates.
Luigi debuted in 64 as a quick clone, and Sakurai in general dislikes decloning people. That's different from how the Summoner would be, as DLC aren't Echo Fighters, and they couldn't feasibly make an Echo situation work with any FE character because the Summoner has a gun and none of the FE Lords or Avatars have one. Either way, if they silhouettes still mattered that much, then why isn't Byleth an Echo of Marth, Roy, or Ike?
And honestly, I don't think anything will beat redoing every stage just to make Steve's gimmick work. Even then, they don't need to make a perfect 1-to-1 translation, either. Min Min's punches are shorter than in ARMS, Hero doesn't get MP back with normal attacks in Dragon Quest, and Steve doesn't create every tool at once from a single piece of material. If Heroes' gameplay is too complicated to cram into a single moveset, there's nothing that says they can't abridge it to make it work in a fighting game.
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Concept: Second SNK Character
6.34% Chance - 49.41% Want
The winner of predictions was Mr. MR Mr. MR with 5.34%
It's worth pointing out that this concept had one chance score of 60% (the others were either in the 10-15% range or the 0-5% range). Without it, its chance score would've been 3.66%

Concept: Stages without fighters as DLC
29.65% Chance - 81.18% Want
The winner of predictions was Dan Quixote Dan Quixote with a precise 25.00%
This is now the most wanted concept!

Concept: Third Fighters Pass
20.36% Chance - 79.96% Want
The winner of predictions was also Dan Quixote Dan Quixote this time with a 20.00%
With that score, this concept ranks as the third most wanted.

Extra noms list

3BitSaurus 3BitSaurus 5
Artix Artix 15
Awakining Awakining 5
Blankiturayman Blankiturayman 15
BowserKing BowserKing 5
Dan Quixote Dan Quixote 10
DanganZilla5 DanganZilla5 15
DaUsername DaUsername 107
Delzethin Delzethin 5
GoodGrief741 GoodGrief741 83
Inue Houji Inue Houji 20
Louie G. Louie G. 10
Lyncario Lyncario 25
Mr. MR Mr. MR 75
NintenRob NintenRob 10
Nemuresu Nemuresu 10
Ninjaed Ninjaed 20
Perkilator Perkilator 5
Ridrool64 Ridrool64 15
SKX31 SKX31 5
TCT~Phantom TCT~Phantom 15
Troykv Troykv 15
waddledeeonredyoshi waddledeeonredyoshi 64
Wunderwaft Wunderwaft 5
zferolie zferolie 5

Ah yes. If silhouettes didn't matter then Luigi would likely have a completely different moveset with no connection to Mario at all. That and you dismissed my other point about how Summoner being a HUGE Budget Hassle because of how Heroes Operates.
No he wouldn't? Even if you ignore the fact that he was created in Smash 64 as a clone and Sakurai doesn't like to change movesets, Luigi is the player 2, and has even been called the original Echo Fighter by Sakurai. He would have been derivative of Mario because Luigi as a character is derivative of Mario.
 

7NATOR

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
4,089
I Don't feel like writing much, So I'll just lay down my Predictions


CP9: Scorpion from Mortal Kombat

-Iconic, Popular
-Ed Boon wanted him in since 2015
-Ryu Amiibo theory, Street Fighter vs Mortal Kombat would be selling point that be used
-Small fanbase in Japan that imports the games, despite it not being sold there regularly


CP10: Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X

-Lack of Content from X in particular, with only Spirits
-2010's Tournament theory, there wasn't 2010 tournament, despite Min Min and Steve being in the game (Steve classified by 2011 Java release). Elma originated in 2015
-Would have Mech, which is very cool
-yes


CP11: Shadow the Hedgehog from Sonic the Hedgehog

-Iconic, Popular
-People love Sonic, 30th anniversary in 2021 in June, Sega loves licensing out
-Have ability to re-use assets, from Assist, to Sonic's Skeleton, but would still be Unique of course
-PapaGenos statement. He might not know what I'm talking about, but I do

Read this essay for Much more indepth look

So I might heavily regret this, but I might have to revise one of my predictions

I'm starting to become heavily conflicted on Scorpion right now. This is for some reasons I might get into later. I still think he's a likely character, if not in this pass, then in the Next Smash game. I also won't be surprised if he is in this pass, But I think I might put him in the Backburner for right now

Instead I think We will get Another Street Fighter character, that's NOT Chun-Li. The Ryu Amiibo theory I still think has some grounds. I don't think it's Chun-Li for reasons I Might get into later
 

Louie G.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
9,880
Location
Rhythm Heaven
Instead I think We will get Another Street Fighter character, that's NOT Chun-Li. The Ryu Amiibo theory I still think has some grounds. I don't think it's Chun-Li for reasons I Might get into later
If we get another Street Fighter character it will be Chun-Li. I heard your reasons for it the other day but no, there's no other Street Fighter character that comes close to the notoriety or significance of the co-star of the series. Chun-Li's impact and cultural relevance is pretty much equivalent to Ryu's, there's really no other choice or reason to add another SF character in the first place if not to add arguably the biggest character still missing from Smash.

I know we're not presenting opinions with the intention of getting critique but like, there's no reason to believe it wouldn't be Chun-Li.
 

Commander_Alph

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 20, 2019
Messages
1,792
I don't understand this Chun Li talk came from, I mean the rumor involving her says that she's replaced by Ken and that's it, there's no line of text that say "Nintendo is reconsidering their decision to put her in" or anything like that afaik and suddenly everyone thinks she's next in the line up?
 
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