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Data R.O.B. Matchup Thread

SatoshiM

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Just to be consistent with the other boards doing the ##-## format is probably best. If anything I don't think short phrases could describe a matchup as well as a number (how good is "good for ROB", exactly? And if people on other boards come here they might not have the same understanding of the extent "good for ROB" means).
 

Syde7

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Hidy ho folks. I've been struggling with a few matchups as of late, and any input you guys have would be greatly appreciated.

King DeDeDe:
For some reason, I struggle quite a bit against him. I find it quite difficult to really set up a zone against him. Also, Gordos pose a huge challenge for me. I know they are easy to reflect with just about any move, I find that their awkward trajectories, the speed with which their hitboxes become active, and DeDeDe's size+range+multiple jumps coupled with ROB's relatively large size, awkward blind spots at the >45 degree angle, and the speed of our attakcs makes it a more effective walling option than it should be.

Additionally, in the event I am taken to smaller stages (either through striking, or bans) I find it almost impossible to set up my zoning game.

Approaches seem to not work due to his range (jab, tilts, and grab range). And, gettin up from the ledge or back to the ground seams really hard due to the range on his aerials and his multiple jumps. Any advice is helpful.


Zelda:
This may be due to MU inexperience, but I struggle with her as well. I've noticed that she can up+B into me (not to mention the OoS Elevator kills) from a decent distance away when I am setting up to fire a gyro or laser. I know this is from lack of MU experience, but it feels like her hitboxes last WAY longer than they should/than their animation would lead you to believe (talking Nayru's Love, jabs, tilts, and F-smash specifically.)

Not to mention, it seems that most of her grounded attacks outrange our counterpart moves, while being comparably fast. Furthermore, ROB is just large enough to eat Lightning Kicks like nobodies business.

I feel that Nayru's love shuts down our camping game more effectively than most other reflectors (due to its large size, the duration of its activity, and the duration of its hitboxes). Again, she seems to have really strong ledge options against ROB due to the range of her attacks.


Little Mac:
Yes, go ahead. Laugh. Little Mac is a cinch once I get him off the stage... its just a hassle to get him there. Virtually all his ground attacks (save for specials) seem to have zero lag, and obscene priority.

Additionally, his speed makes it very hard to wall/zone him out, as he can cover a huge distance quickly and/or punish the brief lag from gyros/lasers, as well as outbox us easily (pardon the pun) due to the aforementioned. Like I said, its a breeze once I get him off the stage (for the most part). Couple this with the damage output for these attacks and he's able to erase with one move what I've spent about 10-20 seconds building w/ chip damage.




Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide.
 

RBreadsticks

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Hidy ho folks. I've been struggling with a few matchups as of late, and any input you guys have would be greatly appreciated.

King DeDeDe:
For some reason, I struggle quite a bit against him. I find it quite difficult to really set up a zone against him. Also, Gordos pose a huge challenge for me. I know they are easy to reflect with just about any move, I find that their awkward trajectories, the speed with which their hitboxes become active, and DeDeDe's size+range+multiple jumps coupled with ROB's relatively large size, awkward blind spots at the >45 degree angle, and the speed of our attakcs makes it a more effective walling option than it should be.

Additionally, in the event I am taken to smaller stages (either through striking, or bans) I find it almost impossible to set up my zoning game.

Approaches seem to not work due to his range (jab, tilts, and grab range). And, gettin up from the ledge or back to the ground seams really hard due to the range on his aerials and his multiple jumps. Any advice is helpful.


Zelda:
This may be due to MU inexperience, but I struggle with her as well. I've noticed that she can up+B into me (not to mention the OoS Elevator kills) from a decent distance away when I am setting up to fire a gyro or laser. I know this is from lack of MU experience, but it feels like her hitboxes last WAY longer than they should/than their animation would lead you to believe (talking Nayru's Love, jabs, tilts, and F-smash specifically.)

Not to mention, it seems that most of her grounded attacks outrange our counterpart moves, while being comparably fast. Furthermore, ROB is just large enough to eat Lightning Kicks like nobodies business.

I feel that Nayru's love shuts down our camping game more effectively than most other reflectors (due to its large size, the duration of its activity, and the duration of its hitboxes). Again, she seems to have really strong ledge options against ROB due to the range of her attacks.


Little Mac:
Yes, go ahead. Laugh. Little Mac is a cinch once I get him off the stage... its just a hassle to get him there. Virtually all his ground attacks (save for specials) seem to have zero lag, and obscene priority.

Additionally, his speed makes it very hard to wall/zone him out, as he can cover a huge distance quickly and/or punish the brief lag from gyros/lasers, as well as outbox us easily (pardon the pun) due to the aforementioned. Like I said, its a breeze once I get him off the stage (for the most part). Couple this with the damage output for these attacks and he's able to erase with one move what I've spent about 10-20 seconds building w/ chip damage.




Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide.
Those questions should probably be in the general matchup thread http://smashboards.com/threads/r-o-b-matchup-thread.382714/ but I'll attempt to tackle some of it.

I find :4dedede: to be one of the easiest MU. As far as Gordos go make sure you either have a gyro in hand or one you can launch, don't just needlessly toss out gyro in this one. The gyro will reflect the Gordo every time so as long as you stay on top of your gyro game it really shouldn't be a problem. You can hang onto your gyro by jumping hitting your choke button and then right after performing an aerial. This will allow you to perform aerials while holding onto gyro, nair is pretty good for keeping people away and with gyro in hand you have a fast punish. My explanation probably made no sense so look up z dropping items. Don't be afraid to go after him if he's above you, uair is your friend.

:4zelda: In this MU id use laser sparingly, gyro is still good when she gets close missing an aerial or a dash attack. Once you get up in percentage she'll be thirsty for an up b kill, realize this and play defensively, it's a very easy move to punish if they whiff take this to your advantage.

:4littlemac: Seems to be easiest to just wall him out with projectiles. If you're having trouble with that keep him in the air, most macs won't even touch his aerials so they've got two options in air, air dodge or slip counter. Learn which one they want to do and punish accordingly.
 
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SatoshiM

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He means the grab button, yeah. If you zdrop (or grab drop, whatever) your gyro then immediately perform an aerial, ROB will recatch the gyro and still do the aerial. This can be good for spacing with nair or fair. You can also do it with any of your other aerials, just not sure how useful it is.
 

zephyrnereus

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ohh that... I didn't see it as useful as it only works when falling down (or I'm probably not fast enough to to it while jumping up). can you z-drop into c-stick fair for example? I only have the 3DS version.
 

SatoshiM

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Sitting in training room I managed to z-drop into (no cstick) rising fair after a couple of tries. It's not impossible, but you have to be quick.

I don't have a cstick so yeah. It's definitely possible to do without.

I personally use X as my grab button as well, so you don't even have to be really precise with the L button.
Things to keep in mind are that you have to have the control stick in neutral when you drop (otherwise ROB throws it in the direction pressed) then immediately move it to the direction of the aerial you're trying to do while you hit A. I slide my thumb from X to A while moving the control stick, this seems to be fairly reliable.

Playing 3ds version atm.
 
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1FC0

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ohh that... I didn't see it as useful as it only works when falling down (or I'm probably not fast enough to to it while jumping up). can you z-drop into c-stick fair for example? I only have the 3DS version.
I can do it with Uair immediately after a second jump. I also approach a lot using Gyro Nair. You probably just need to be faster. It took me some practice too to be able to do this well but I think that this is a really useful AT.
 

Kraklnpop

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How does a matchup against Peach or Pac Man turn out? Are good counters or not?
 

Locke 06

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Hello ROBs. I hope you're not too heartbroken by the conquest loss to Mega Man. We're starting to discuss the ROB vs Mega Man matchup and would love your inputs.

Spin on over here.
 

GwJ

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The matchup thread for Villager is up now.

Also, I have taken the liberty of grading our older discussions that never got a grading in the thread. These are based on the discussions and my experience, so please say so if you disagree.
 

Crome

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Sorry for being late to the thread. Stopped lurking because it was inactive a bit ago and came back to this.

:4rob: vs :4falcon:
40:60 (Falcon's favor).
R.O.B is big and floaty, which means he is prime for dthrow>upair strings. R.O.B's smashes are also really slow, and Falcon punishes hard. It isn't completely unwinnable, R.O.B can really shut falcon down with projectiles. But once Falcon gets in, it's hard to force him out. If you can cheese really ****ing hard, you can win. It just takes a lot of work.

:4rob: vs :4sheik:
30:70 (Sheik's Favor).
Basically the Falcon match up but worse. Sheik can't be walled as easily as Falcon, and she can combo us much more easily. She can also use needles to interrupt top charging, and interrupt the laser start up. We're not completely nullified by Sheik, but it's difficult.

:4rob: vs :4villager:
20:80 (Villager's favor).
Fom my knowledge, this is our worst match up by far. His recovery is too good to gimp/WoP, he can nullify our gyro, and can generally combo us better. One of R.O.B's best qualities is covering options, Villager just has too many for us to deal with.

Okay, writing all that made me cry a bit. But let's remember R.O.B has good/even match ups too.

:4rob: vs :4ganondorf:
70:30 (R.O.B's favor).
Not too good for Ganon. Can easily be cheesed out with gryos. He can very easily be gimped, spiked, or WoP, Unless that Ganon is @ The Real Inferno The Real Inferno and he humiliates you with power shields. Just make sure you don't let him get close.

:4rob: vs :4littlemac:
80:20 (R.O.B's favor).
R.O.B can easily keep Little Mac away. It's no contest. At Least Ganon has good aerials, Little Mac is restricted to the ground. Easy pickings with gyro/laser. He is an up close character ala Sheik and Falcon, but once he hits us, what's he going to do? Follow up? In the air? He does have super armor, but we can easily punish it. We can cover every option Little Mac has.

:4rob: vs :4bowser:
30:70 (R.O.B's favor).
Bowser doesn't have much to match R.O.B. He's very big and floaty. He's extremely susceptible to DTUA, and it's easy to chip away at him with projectiles. His fire doesn't have priority on laser or gyro. We can even recover from Bowsercide, he really has no leg up here.

:4rob: vs :4megaman:
55:45 (R.O.B's favor).
This matchup is not fun for either party. It's not really difficult persay, it's just a camp fest. I do think R.O.B has the leg up (Gyro can be reused), but it's definitely anybodys game here. You can take his metal blade and use it against him, but he can also do the same with gyro. We have laser, he has crash bomber. We have gyro, he has metal blade. Good up airs, good throws, good up smashes, good fairs. It's remarkable how similar these 2 robots are. The only trick we have is that gyro is a better projectile.


That's all I have to say for now. These are the only matchups I can extendedly write on. I have opinions for other characters too, but nothing to really say yet. My matchup ratings may be a little extreme, maybe 10 or so off (either direction).

Here's a list off the top of my head. (I'm not saying rob has more good matchups then bad. I have a lot of gaps in my MU knowledge.)

Positive(+): :4myfriends::4littlemac::4ganondorf::4bowser::4wiifit::4robinm::4dedede::4charizard::4dk:

Neutral/Even::4diddy::rosalina::4megaman::4duckhunt::4ness::4lucario::4luigi:

Negative(-): :4falcon::4sheik::4villager::4sonic::4yoshi::4mario:
 
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zephyrnereus

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Im curious why you put DHD and Mario in even. I personally feel the MU is positive vs DHD and negative vs mario. mind if I hear your reasoning?
 

Crome

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Im curious why you put DHD and Mario in even. I personally feel the MU is positive vs DHD and negative vs mario. mind if I hear your reasoning?
Lack of knowledge, probably. I've only played either match up seriously once, DHD as a friendly against @ The Real Inferno The Real Inferno , and the Mario in bracket. The Mario only won because I was **** back then and couldn't handle him reflecting my lasers, and with DHD it was just an annoying as **** camp fest. Inferno was also playing the DHD, and he can beat my rob with ganon lol. Those weren't hard opinions, just the top of my head.
 

Jams.

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:4rob: vs :4littlemac:
90:10 (R.O.B's favor).
R.O.B can easily keep Little Mac away. It's no contest. At Least Ganon has good aerials, Little Mac is restricted to the ground. Easy pickings with gyro/laser. He is an up close character ala Sheik and Falcon, but once he hits us, what's he going to do? Follow up? In the air? He does have super armor, but we can easily punish it. We can cover every option Little Mac has.
This matchup is definitely not more than 65:35 in ROB's favour, if that. I personally think it's around 60:40 in ROB's favour, but I'm probably biased since my region's best player plays Mac and completely wrecked me. Anyway, hopefully divulging that doesn't make me lose all credibility to you for losing what you think is a 90:10 matchup for ROB.

About the matchup itself. ROB can't reliably keep Mac out because of his incredible dash speed. If he shields a laser from half the stage away, ROB is going to eat a dash attack; a powershield and he's eating an up smash; laser is just really unsafe in this matchup. Gyro is a lot better, but Mac can still get a dash attack off if he powershields gyro, which good Macs will. Another note about this matchup is that spacing nair on shield doesn't work, since he can just drop his shield and ftilt, giving Mac a super reliable punish on one of ROB's best spacing tools. ftilt spaced well is also safe on shield. In this matchup, Mac should not be committing super hard with dash attacks and such in neutral, which can get him 0-death'd off an edgeguard. Instead, Mac should be trying to stay in a distance where he can punish ROB's projectiles on shield, but out of range of ROB's burst options and covering approaches with his own spacing tools. Mac can play this way much better than most characters because of his amazing ground mobility and high range/low start up grounded options. Finally, Mac doesn't need to follow up on ROB. His goal after a successful hit in neutral is to either landing trap or ledge trap ROB and never give back stage control, which he can do because ROB is pretty bad at getting back to neutral. It also doesn't hurt that each hit he gets does twice the damage of ROB's, and that he can kill <90%. This is just a summary of Mac's options and gameplan in the matchup. I do think ROB beats Mac, though Mac definitely isn't helpless against ROB.
 

GwJ

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Just stand by the ledge and grab. You don't have to worry about chip damage, that just builds his meter and super armor goes through it anyway. Gimps are your kills here.
 

Jams.

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That is a huge oversimplification of any character versus Little Mac, and doesn't work versus a player that knows what he's doing. Little Mac can safely space ftilt and dtilt if ROB is just sitting there fishing for grabs. Little Mac also has a larger burst range (range where the opponent can't react to your approach options), and use this to pressure ROB to commit to some pre-emptive action. Sitting by the ledge is also a double-edged sword. If he does hit you, you now have zero stage control and will struggle to return to neutral against a good Mac (unless it's a stage like T&C or Smashville where you can fly onto a platform for free, but you'll only get 1 of those stages in a Bo3).
 

Crome

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You have much more knowledge on this than I do. However, I think you're under playing Rob a bit here. Ftilt and dtilt don't have super armor, correct? You also seem to be assuming we're always going to be playing on FD.

I went in training and checked it out. While Villager has it pocketed, you can't pull a new gyro out, but there is a time limit on how long Villager can pocket something. It felt like 20ish seconds (which is a long time), but it isn't forever.
Ps. This is an old post, but I'm gonna remind you anyways. Villager can take the gyro out and put it back in to refresh the timer, essentially keeping it until he dies. You can't even use it if he has it while dying to a star KO.
 
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Jams.

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I don't think I'm being too extreme in the matchup, it's just that I'm only listing Mac's options which makes it sounds like I think this matchup is worse than it is. I definitely believe that ROB has the advantage.

Ftilt and dtilt don't have super armour, just his smashes.

About stages, Mac has options on a lot of the standard stages (assuming 5 neutrals and 4 CPs). Game 1 is probably going to Battlefield (don't get baited into picking Lylat, Mac is good on Lylat), which he can work with. He's going to get put onto a really bad stage game 2 (either T&C, Duck Hunt, or Smashville), and should probably lose. Then he'll get another workable stage game 3. He has a big disadvantage on ROB's counterpick, but has options game 1 and on his counterpick.
 

PUK

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WFT MU is definitively in WFT favor. Easily 65-45. And robin is even, maybe in her favor.
And LM MU is not that polarized.
 

Crome

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I don't think I'm being too extreme in the matchup, it's just that I'm only listing Mac's options which makes it sounds like I think this matchup is worse than it is. I definitely believe that ROB has the advantage.

Ftilt and dtilt don't have super armour, just his smashes.

About stages, Mac has options on a lot of the standard stages (assuming 5 neutrals and 4 CPs). Game 1 is probably going to Battlefield (don't get baited into picking Lylat, Mac is good on Lylat), which he can work with. He's going to get put onto a really bad stage game 2 (either T&C, Duck Hunt, or Smashville), and should probably lose. Then he'll get another workable stage game 3. He has a big disadvantage on ROB's counterpick, but has options game 1 and on his counterpick.
If his ftilt and dtilt don't have super armor, doesn't that mean we can just gyro oos? There's no way ftilt is 100% safe on shield. You also keep saying that he "has options". Could you go into more depth on said options? I'm also curious as to why Mac is good on lylat, I wouldn't think he would be.
 

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I hadn't thought about using gyro OoS to punish his tilts. I'll try it the next time I play against a Mac. IMO it should work on ftilt, but dtilt likely has low enough cooldown that he could shield it.

I think I elaborated more on my first post about his options. Little Mac's high ground speed and low profile makes walling him out difficult because he can powershield and punish from an extremely long range. He also has a higher burst range than ROB; as such, he can stay in the neutral at a certain distance out of ROB's dash attack/SH fair range, and pressure ROB with the threat of dash attack and ftilt. This allows Mac to play a less risky bait-and-punish style which means he doesn't have to go in all the time and risk getting gimped at low percent.

Lylat is good for Little Mac because he traps landings extremely well on that stage, since usmash goes through the platforms. Once he gets stage control, it's extremely difficult to land and reset to neutral. The tilting does mess up even a good Little Mac, but I think the stage control he get makes up for it.

About the Little Mac that wrecked me, he played a set against Raffi in a wifi tournament. It's wifi so not everything is legit, but it does show the matchup at a high level. The strategy of baiting and punishing ROB's projectiles is not nearly as good online because the delay makes consistent powershielding difficult if not impossible. Game 1 is on Lylat, games 2 and 3 he changed to Diddy because of stages.
 

Crome

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I'm actually kind of worried we might be nerfed, considering it seemed to be balanced around for glory
 

PUK

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I'm actually kind of worried we might be nerfed, considering it seemed to be balanced around for glory
Ok so 1: rob is not a overrepresented in FG
2: he's not really high on the tier list
3: balance are not based on FG
4: he doesn't benefits from glitch, doesn't have insane AC or insane recovery time, or hitbox

But i don't see what would buff him enough to make him a top tier, or even in the first half of high tiers.
 

Crome

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Ok so 1: rob is not a overrepresented in FG
2: he's not really high on the tier list
3: balance are not based on FG
4: he doesn't benefits from glitch, doesn't have insane AC or insane recovery time, or hitbox

But i don't see what would buff him enough to make him a top tier, or even in the first half of high tiers.
I know a lot of people don't play him, but people don't know how to play against him. ROB is an amazing pub stomp character.

Regarding 2/3, no one is balanced based on a tier list. There is no tier list. Previous patches seemed to be based on 2 things, For Glory and some japanese tournaments (Hence why Greninja was crippled).
http://www.donotlink.com/framed?581936 They definitely look and take in information provided for glory. So while not many people play R.O.B, R.O.B might have a very high win rate.
 
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PUK

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It's unclear what balance patch are based on, and most removed trick were glitch which gave big advantages (greninja), or things like rosa Bthrow, soooo i don't really fear the nerf hammer.
 

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I've been mostly going down the implied tier list so far in our discussions, but does anybody have a particular matchup they want us to discuss? We've gotten most of the important ones out of the way, so if anybody has any preferences, we should move on to those.
 

zephyrnereus

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I'd like some tips vs Palutena. I just feel that I get walled so hard by her fairs and jab grab combos. any long range poke is nullified by her reflect.
 
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