Data R.O.B. Matchup Thread

[GwJ]

I'm going to go through the thread and edit in new information in the op after classes today so stay tuned.

 

[The Real Inferno]

I've noticed recently that R.O.B. does have something neat when he's fighting Villager: he can reflect the Lloid Rocket. It might not seem like much at first, but if you reflect it while he's trying to recover with it, his recovery will be completely shut down since the rocket will eventually explode while he's offstage, often resulting in a KO (or an SD if he jumps off). What's more is that if he hops off the rocket before he reaches you, it's basically a free punish as he'll either get hit by his own rocket or get caught in your Arm Rotor. It isn't anything too major, but if you're up against a Villager who continuously uses the Lloid Rocket as an approach option, you can basically put him into a Lose/Lose situation really easily. That, and it provides a perfect opportunity to get a taunt or two in as he slowly meets his demise.

while it will kill him if he rides it for some reason (Villager never has a reason to, since his up b goes farther in all directions and under stages) when he is off stage, he does have time to pocket reflected lloids at anything other than absolutely point blank range.

 

[B_Bech]

I played against a few Rosalina's today. Have to say, the Luma is pain in the ***. If you try to recover low, they'll just send the Luma near the ledge and d-tilt repeatedly, making things tricky. Luma can also take quite a lot of damage and eat up projectiles. (Thank God that Robo beam passes through objects)

I do extraordinarily well against Rosa. I think our stage control options are just as good. Down b can be punished, luma diesl from a tilt or side b... Her up b is easily fair spike ... And she gets killed stupid early by usmash uair and uthrow

 

[GwJ]

The OP has been updated. And by that, I mostly mean I edited in The Real Inferno's post into the OP.

Please critique and add on to the already existing information in the OP and if you have new information, please format it similar to how The Real Inferno did. It can be difficult to parse through snippits of information, but those kinds of posts make it really easy to find what's important.

 

[FalKoopa]

I do extraordinarily well against Rosa. I think our stage control options are just as good. Down b can be punished, luma diesl from a tilt or side b... Her up b is easily fair spike ... And she gets killed stupid early by usmash uair and uthrow

I suppose I got beaten as I didn't know the match up well.

 

[crashbfan]

okay. on the topic of DHD vs. ROB, I've played this matchup a LOT with each character. the matchup isn't a complete stomp in ROB's favor , but it is in his advantage. A good DHD will not do unsafe projectile spams, so the lazer alone destroying DHD is not true. And DHD also has a good approach, can lock you down with gunman. DHD's fair is EXCELLENT and not a lot of people know about it, but they will in due time. I feel like the matchup does not come down to which character has the better specials, but whoever has the better approach and killing power, and we all know about ROB's ease of killing.

 

[zephyrnereus]

I got a few tips for some characters. bear in mind that most of these tidbits I found in online matches.

: if he rushes in a lot, try using a retreating SH gyro drop to get them off. if you are fast enough, you can regrab the gyro after it hits to throw it at him.

: I believe ROB's Fair comes out faster than Ness's Fair (I managed to pull it off online a good amount of times so I'm not completely sure). so if you're caught in a Fair Fair combo, try throwing in your own in between to cut it early. you may even burn out his double jump.

: if custom moves are allowed, reflector Side B 2 utterly destroys villager. its harder to reflect with the regular Side B though, but a well timed spinner may change the tides of battle completely. (here's a quick list of things that can be reflected and possibly kill villager pretty early: Dash Attack, Side Smash, Fair, Bair, Side B, Down B) you can also condition villager to throwing out pockets by faking a gyro toss and punishing accordingly. it might also be a good idea to purposely give him a small laser so you can freely spam your gyro until he throws the laser back at you.

: Side B, dash attacks, and side tilts are your friends here because they send luma into a launch. if done by the edge, you can kill luma very early. that said, always go for luma when they are separated. if played correctly, rosa should almost never have a luma around to edgeguard you. also, if you start the game by spamming lasers and gyros, you can condition her to pop out gravity every time you charge the gyro, and if you learn the timing on gravity, you can even punish with a laser just as it finishes if she's too far.

 

[BlastState]

I keep getting creamed by Fox. Anyone have any tips on how to keep that demon canine at bay?

 

[FalKoopa]

I keep getting creamed by Fox. Anyone have any tips on how to keep that demon canine at bay?

If he lasers you, disrupt him using your Robo Beam. Try to keep a Gyro between you and him at all times. His ground game is strong and he likes to be up close and personal, so you need to counter that. Use Arm Rotor only as a last resort, like a 'get off me' move.

I think the match-up is 60:40 in Fox's favour, possibly more. Rushdown characters in general are a weakness of ROB.

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

I met a R.O.B. player at Austin Is Really Feeling It #1 who said his worst MU is against Mario. I don't have that many problems with Mario but I don't contest that fighting him is difficult due to Mario being faster, able to combo R.O.B. easily, and having a pretty handy reflector.

- Mario can actually d-air out of R.O.B.'s jab, so in close quarters your best bets are d-tilt and f-tilt. Don't throw Gyro out in neutral; get Mario in a position where you're comfortable and then grab the Gyro and Z-drop it for edgeguards or something. Be careful not to waste your jump while on the stage either (such as when trying to land n-airs) because if Mario catches you with an up tilt, that's a bunch of free damage on you from him just from stringing up tilts. You might be tempted to do this when the stage has platforms but you're better off staying grounded; only leave the ground when Mario has left the ground as well, because n-air beats everything he does if I'm not mistaken. Marios like to SH d-air at close range to cross you up sometimes, just don't prematurely drop your shield and you should be able to punish the ensued aggression.

Mario can be very easily spiked when using Super Jump Punch, and in general he's easy to gimp if he happens to position himself incorrectly off-stage. If a Mario fears a z-dropped Gyro then his recovery will be more lateral, which means using his second jump earlier, which usually means you can gimp with f-air or b-air.

- I feel like Luigi is much less dangerous to R.O.B. than Mario, only really having the d-throw stuff on him. That said, I'd suggest being extra careful on stage and to try to phase through any of his shenanigans that will condition you to shield a lot. Instead of shielding in said instances, shoot lasers or Gyro and proceed to keep him away until you've gotten him off stage or at a percentage you can KO him at with U-throw or something (for that reason I think Smashville and Battlefield are good stages for R.O.B., aside from Delfino and Skyloft). Luigi's side special and Cyclone are extra spikable and he has no way to combat a barrage of projectiles off the stage, so gimping him shouldn't be a problem.

Any developments on Robin and Mega Man? I believe those MUs are tough as well, especially Robin because Arcthunder pokes through R.O.B.'s shield and hits his large frame, and R.O.B. doesn't have any way to deal with Arcfire, especially if the opposing Robin is guarding the ledge with it.

 

[FullMoon]

Hello R.O.B mains, we in the Greninja boards are going to discuss the MU with you guys and we would appreciate if you guys could give us some input (especially to me because I suuuuuck at this MU): http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...b-jr-dh-1-26-2-2.369356/page-10#post-18457845

Please help us deal with the Last of Your Kind =P

 

[RBreadsticks]

Hi y'all first post. I've been lurking these forums for a while but finally signed up. I've been maining R.O.B on Wiiu with pretty good results overall on For Glory I've got a 75 % win rate in general with a 94 % win rate over the last 50 matches. Now my huge problem with matchup comes down to Sonic. It seems every time I face a Sonic its a 50/50 even if I can tell they're really bad at the game in general. I guess it comes down to me not understanding Sonic's hit boxes and hurtboxes. It seems to me I can almost never hit him with Down B top which in my opinion is one of R.O.B's best moves in general. For this particular matchup how should I approach? Should i be throwing out more short hop neutral airs to stop Sonic's weird spin dash moves? Should i forgo using laser or top in general since it seems to never hit?

I would really appreciate some input from the more knowledgeable R.O.B mains on the board as this by far has been the most difficult matchup for me in general. Even other characters like villager who can completely wreck R.O.B's top haven't been as much trouble for me. It just seems like Sonic's Speed is way too much for R.O.B but I'm probably overlooking something really obvious. Should I just pick up some kind of pocket side character to counter Sonics and if so who? I'd really appreciate any input and please be gentle it's my first post .

 

[Ladorana]

What is the general consensus for the matchup? Haven't faced many foxes in for glory but I tend to get bodied by good ones. I'm probably playing the matchup wrong but would like to know what rob has/doesn't have over fox in this matchup.

 

[FalKoopa]

What is the general consensus for the matchup? Haven't faced many foxes in for glory but I tend to get bodied by good ones. I'm probably playing the matchup wrong but would like to know what rob has/doesn't have over fox in this matchup.

He is a weakness, yeah. ROB does poorly up close while Fox is very comfortable in close quarters.

I'll just quote myself.

If he lasers you, disrupt him using your Robo Beam. Try to keep a Gyro between you and him at all times. His ground game is strong and he likes to be up close and personal, so you need to counter that. Use Arm Rotor only as a last resort, like a 'get off me' move.

I think the match-up is 60:40 in Fox's favour, possibly more. Rushdown characters in general are a weakness of ROB.

 

[Leisha]

Should we start discussing maybe one character at a time and do in-depth information? Just theres only little bits and pieces for some characters and I feel its not enough for us :<

Ill try providing some information, but I'm not really smart when it comes to explaining things =(. I'll probably cover some stuff on the lucario matchup soon since I'm starting to learn that one a fair bit. Its really scary, but winnable for us =o

 

[FalKoopa]

It's kind of weird. I actually copied GwJ's idea when I started up the Luigi Match-up thread, and the idea worked much better there.

Considering the ROB boards are much less active than Luigi's, maybe the per-week format is better here.

 

[GwJ]

It's kind of weird. I actually copied GwJ's idea when I started up the Luigi Match-up thread, and the idea worked much better there.

Considering the ROB boards are much less active than Luigi's, maybe the per-week format is better here.

Should we start discussing maybe one character at a time and do in-depth information? Just theres only little bits and pieces for some characters and I feel its not enough for us :<

Ill try providing some information, but I'm not really smart when it comes to explaining things =(. I'll probably cover some stuff on the lucario matchup soon since I'm starting to learn that one a fair bit. Its really scary, but winnable for us =o

I did try to do that with the Diddy thread and it got SOME discussion. I'm still thinking of the best way to approach advancing through the roster since we're not as active as some other characters.

 

[al-LAYN]

Hi y'all first post. I've been lurking these forums for a while but finally signed up. I've been maining R.O.B on Wiiu with pretty good results overall on For Glory I've got a 75 % win rate in general with a 94 % win rate over the last 50 matches. Now my huge problem with matchup comes down to Sonic. It seems every time I face a Sonic its a 50/50 even if I can tell they're really bad at the game in general. I guess it comes down to me not understanding Sonic's hit boxes and hurtboxes. It seems to me I can almost never hit him with Down B top which in my opinion is one of R.O.B's best moves in general. For this particular matchup how should I approach? Should i be throwing out more short hop neutral airs to stop Sonic's weird spin dash moves? Should i forgo using laser or top in general since it seems to never hit?

I would really appreciate some input from the more knowledgeable R.O.B mains on the board as this by far has been the most difficult matchup for me in general. Even other characters like villager who can completely wreck R.O.B's top haven't been as much trouble for me. It just seems like Sonic's Speed is way too much for R.O.B but I'm probably overlooking something really obvious. Should I just pick up some kind of pocket side character to counter Sonics and if so who? I'd really appreciate any input and please be gentle it's my first post .

Sonic (or any other type of rushdown character) will always give R.O.B. a hard time. R.O.B. is a zoning character, and like so, he needs to always have a decent amount space between him and his opponent to seize the situation. I really don't think that you're overlooking anything as much as it is just a hard MU for R.O.B. (not to mention, that Sonic did get buffed from Brawl to Smash 4, so there's that, too). Short Hopping into Nair/Fairs, are good for spacing (d-tilts are also good). Avoid being above Sonic. He has an easy time juggling R.O.B. in the air, and with R.O.B. having such a poor air game and big hurtbox, they can accumulate a decent amount of percent really fast. Try and implement R.O.B.'s Side-B, but be diligent with it. In my experience, it is a great tool to punish Sonic players that enjoy spamming Side-B a tad too much, not to mention that it's also a good tool to punish rolls.

Overall, just understand that Sonic having such great speed and power will always prone difficult for R.O.B.. Having a secondary character is never a bad idea, since it can help you to balance out R.O.B.'s bad MUs. Instead of making it a pocket character, though, try and choose a character whose move-set you enjoy, then practice those bad MUs using that character, and choose them as an alternative for when R.O.B. can't cut it.

 

[zephyrnereus]

strangely enough I have more trouble with sheik when she camps rather than shen she rushes down. it's so stressful to see a needle stopping the gyro, or the laser startup animation getting cancelled by needle due to how fast it comes out.

anyways, I think it might be good to organize ourselves and talk about a single matchup at a time, then post all the highlights on the main post. perhaps we could vote to see who we start with?

also @ Leisha : that is the most kawaii ROB I've ever seen.

 

[SatoshiM]

Well, having finally overcome my weakness to Yoshi (eggssss) I have found a new one in Marth. I've got a friend who's about the same skill level as me (nothing spectacular, average players I guess) and I struggle a lot against his Marth.

I'm not sure how ROB is supposed to get in through the wall of Fairs. Marth is always in the air and his Fair seems to be faster than ROBs? Nair isn't an option because of startup. I don't think up angled laser is safe when Marth is on top of you. And then he can also just empty hop grab and stuff such as that, and when ROB is up in the air I don't know how he's supposed to recover against rapid aerials.

Pretty much we're about even then he starts to juggle me, then I can't ever seem to get back into neutral. He's never at a range where I feel safe to laser/gyro (and they're pretty easy to shield anyway). And getting back is hard, if I try to recover high he can nair or fair or uair me, when I try to recover low he can either dair or stage spike me with bair or Dolphin Slash (I'm not good at teching, even though I really should be because it's a big deal for ROB).

Anyway, any tips? I know Marth isn't considered the strongest character but he sure seems to be my Achilles heel.

 

[GwJ]

Merged with the R.O.B. Matchup Thread

 

[SatoshiM]

Ok, I wasn't sure because I saw that someone else had made a thread about Wario. Thanks!

 

[MG_Music]

is there any further information about other characters such as Luigi or Shulk?

 

[Locuan]

Hey guys. We just started discussion on the ROB match-up on the Marth Match-Up Thread. It would be awesome if you could help us out!

 

[PowerHungryFool]

is there any further information about other characters such as Luigi or Shulk?

ROB spanks shulk all day, everyday. Dumb ****ing shulk.

 

[BestFriendSkull]

Not sure if this is where to ask this but anyone got advice for the Ness and Link match-ups? Just went 2-a lot with a guy who played those 2. With Ness I found myself unable to get out of situations where he tried a PK fire on me, jumping didn't work cause I just got hit anyways, blocking didn't work cause it locked me in place for a grab and all my moves were stuffed by it cause it's too quick. Also had issues with PK thunder while I was off stage cause of ROB's upB being so slow and him having no way to quickly get to the edge. Link I just couldn't deal with the arrows cause they trade with the laser and send the gyro flying, and if I tried to get in the boomerang made everything awkward. These may just be fundamental things with the characters cause I'll admit I'm not that experienced against them but any help would be appreciated.

 

[RBreadsticks]

Not sure if this is where to ask this but anyone got advice for the Ness and Link match-ups? Just went 2-a lot with a guy who played those 2. With Ness I found myself unable to get out of situations where he tried a PK fire on me, jumping didn't work cause I just got hit anyways, blocking didn't work cause it locked me in place for a grab and all my moves were stuffed by it cause it's too quick. Also had issues with PK thunder while I was off stage cause of ROB's upB being so slow and him having no way to quickly get to the edge. Link I just couldn't deal with the arrows cause they trade with the laser and send the gyro flying, and if I tried to get in the boomerang made everything awkward. These may just be fundamental things with the characters cause I'll admit I'm not that experienced against them but any help would be appreciated.

As far as Link goes side b is your friend times properly it reflects boomerang and arrows. The gyro will be able to neutralize his arrows when timed right and if you jump and shoot gyro in mid air it should sail over his arrow and hit him or atleast cause sheild pressure. Angling the laser downward and shooting it from air also seems to work in this matchup

 

[1FC0]

Not sure if this is where to ask this but anyone got advice for the Ness and Link match-ups? Just went 2-a lot with a guy who played those 2. With Ness I found myself unable to get out of situations where he tried a PK fire on me, jumping didn't work cause I just got hit anyways, blocking didn't work cause it locked me in place for a grab and all my moves were stuffed by it cause it's too quick.

Jumping did not work on PK Fire? Maybe you timed it wrong because on FG 1v1 I SH over PK Fires all the time. I even hit them with Nair while I am doing it. Although I mostly do it on prediction and not on reaction. Maybe you do it on reaction and are too late because of that.

Also I think that Ness Fair beats every aerial that R.O.B. has so personally I do not confront them with my aerials in the air when I am in front of them.

If you have high damage then they will often spam their grabs because their back-throw will kill you but I have found spamming Nairs to be pretty effective since they only really beat that with their Fair I think which is not what they want to do do since they prefer getting the kill. Just keep good spacing as to not get shielded and grabbed afterwards. If you space well then even when Ness shields it and tries to punish you with a grab you should have enough time to Jab, Dtilt, or Ftilt him away in my experience.

 

[RBreadsticks]

To add to what he said^

Rotor arm is also a great way to punish grab happy Ness, If you can condition them to believe that every time they rush you that you will sheild. When you call the grab go for rotor arm but be careful if you don't angle it correctly Ness can escape with his floaty second jump.

 

[BestFriendSkull]

Jumping did not work on PK Fire? Maybe you timed it wrong because on FG 1v1 I SH over PK Fires all the time. I even hit them with Nair while I am doing it. Although I mostly do it on prediction and not on reaction. Maybe you do it on reaction and are too late because of that.

Also I think that Ness Fair beats every aerial that R.O.B. has so personally I do not confront them with my aerials in the air when I am in front of them.

If you have high damage then they will often spam their grabs because their back-throw will kill you but I have found spamming Nairs to be pretty effective since they only really beat that with their Fair I think which is not what they want to do do since they prefer getting the kill. Just keep good spacing as to not get shielded and grabbed afterwards. If you space well then even when Ness shields it and tries to punish you with a grab you should have enough time to Jab, Dtilt, or Ftilt him away in my experience.

I think it may have been the lag that caused the jumps to not work cause I was predicting him fine I just couldn't find the answer. I'll try it in a lagless environment and get used to it.

The grab thing is something I did notice but pretty frequently I wound up getting caught in the PKFire and grabbed anyways, other than that I could evade the grab.

A note I made yesterday against another Ness who was more on my skill level is that he's really vulnerable to an UAir from beneath. Ness's Dair is just so slow that the only option he has is to air dodge and if you bait that then he's wide open to a NAir or a FAir (Nair if he's behind you, Fair if he's in front, BAir CAN work but it's tough to time.) Thought it was worth noting.

The 2 things Breadsticks said, not sure how to multi-reply on here.

As far as Link goes I frequently shot the gyro into an arrow and just had it bounce away, is there a timing gimmick there?

The Side B against Ness was nice to have around but with some trial and error I found that just Ftilting, Dtilt or Gyro was a better idea cause sometimes they'll rush in and then bait an option with a shield and if you Side B he'll just shield through it and get the grab. Gyro and the others cover both the grab and keep you safe if you shield.

 

[RBreadsticks]

I think it may have been the lag that caused the jumps to not work cause I was predicting him fine I just couldn't find the answer. I'll try it in a lagless environment and get used to it.

The grab thing is something I did notice but pretty frequently I wound up getting caught in the PKFire and grabbed anyways, other than that I could evade the grab.

A note I made yesterday against another Ness who was more on my skill level is that he's really vulnerable to an UAir from beneath. Ness's Dair is just so slow that the only option he has is to air dodge and if you bait that then he's wide open to a NAir or a FAir (Nair if he's behind you, Fair if he's in front, BAir CAN work but it's tough to time.) Thought it was worth noting.



As far as Link goes I frequently shot the gyro into an arrow and just had it bounce away, is there a timing gimmick there?

The Side B against Ness was nice to have around but with some trial and error I found that just Ftilting, Dtilt or Gyro was a better idea cause sometimes they'll rush in and then bait an option with a shield and if you Side B he'll just shield through it and get the grab. Gyro and the others cover both the grab and keep you safe if you shield.

Yeah I agree that the best option on sheild would be dtilt or one of your throws dthrow or throw depending on percent in that situation but a lot of Ness I run into online will do this uniformly: run for grab miss grab, sheild for 1 second, instantly spot dodge out of sheild. If they're that kind of player rotor arm always seems to be the best bet if not I would definetly always go with dtilt or a throw (utilt seems garbage to me but im probably being a giant idiot about it lol)

 

[BestFriendSkull]

Yeah I agree that the best option on sheild would be dtilt or one of your throws dthrow or throw depending on percent in that situation but a lot of Ness I run into online will do this uniformly: run for grab miss grab, sheild for 1 second, instantly spot dodge out of sheild. If they're that kind of player rotor arm always seems to be the best bet if not I would definetly always go with dtilt or a throw (utilt seems garbage to me but im probably being a giant idiot about it lol)

UTilt is garbage if they're not above you, if you're trying to cover both sides of yourself then DSmash is the best option. I wouldn't throw a rushing Ness cause if they wind up throwing instead of shielding then they get the kill from it. I guess it's high risk high reward but I pretty much always go for Dtilt, jab, Ftilt or Gyro.

 

[GwJ]

The thread for the discussion of Zero Suit Samus is out: http://smashboards.com/threads/r-o-b-matchup-analysis-3-zero-suit-samus.391565/

I will also be creating new threads weekly every Monday evening. This way, we can keep these rolling out on a consistent basis and we can really work on getting down this list. I'm still going to move in the general direction of top of the tier list downward. Once we get through a few more characters, we can break out of order if we need to, but I think we should tackle the big guys first.

Also, the OP will be changed around a bit. The OP will no longer house matchup information. Instead, it will be replaced by links to the respective character discussions which will be listed in order of our discussions. For the information already in the OP for characters we do not have a thread for yet, I will leave the information there until our discussion starts in which case I'll post our existing information in the OP of that thread.

Any objections or suggestions?

edit: Any by the way, feel free to keep posting in the threads for characters we've already discussed. The Diddy matchup surely has changed and will change in the future, so the threads have no expiration date on them.

 

[RBreadsticks]

Hey yall not sure if this is the right place to ask but I'm looking for a secondary to handle Robs bad/annoying matchups (give me my gyro back villager!). So I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Thinking about just picking up one of the s tiers like diddy or sheik as my secondary but maybe I'm overlooking a character who handles Robs bad matchups better? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[PowerHungryFool]

Hey yall not sure if this is the right place to ask but I'm looking for a secondary to handle Robs bad/annoying matchups (give me my gyro back villager!). So I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Thinking about just picking up one of the s tiers like diddy or sheik as my secondary but maybe I'm overlooking a character who handles Robs bad matchups better? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I've found Dedede to be pretty good at handling those tough MUs, and alot of ROB mains find him pretty natural to pick up.

 

[SatoshiM]

Diddy Kong is honestly gonna be a solid secondary no matter who you play. He's good for when you're feeling overwhelmed by pressure and handles most characters well. Villager can still steal your banana though. xD

Honestly I'd just pick a fast aggressive character. ZSS, Shiek, Fox, Falcon, take your pick. It's good to understand how the other side feels during a match, and with ROB being much more zoning and defensive in nature playing a more close combat character can help you get better at footsies and knowing when to pull out the aggression. Plus after playing ROB for awhile it's fun to rush people down for a change.

 

[RBreadsticks]

Diddy Kong is honestly gonna be a solid secondary no matter who you play. He's good for when you're feeling overwhelmed by pressure and handles most characters well. Villager can still steal your banana though. xD

Honestly I'd just pick a fast aggressive character. ZSS, Shiek, Fox, Falcon, take your pick. It's good to understand how the other side feels during a match, and with ROB being much more zoning and defensive in nature playing a more close combat character can help you get better at footsies and knowing when to pull out the aggression. Plus after playing ROB for awhile it's fun to rush people down for a change.

Yeah I've been trying out HOO HAA with some mixed results im so used to the robo burner up b that Im pretty sure I SD every time i go for diddys up b I keep expecting him to fly up like ROB lol.

 

[GwJ]

Yeah I've been trying out HOO HAA with some mixed results im so used to the robo burner up b that Im pretty sure I SD every time i go for diddys up b I keep expecting him to fly up like ROB lol.

So many SDs. I play Diddy online sometimes and I SD all the time.

 

[SatoshiM]

Yeah, I'm still sort of used to Diddy's Up B in Brawl which went much higher, so sometimes I'll let go just a little too early and come just short of the edge.

Don't forget you can wall cling and have a walljump, those make it much easier to recover on stages where the walls extend to the blastzone.

 

[GwJ]

Thoughts on grading our matchups? I just realized that we don't have any way of concluding discussions with even a "good for ROB" or anything like that.

Numbers aren't the best at representing this stuff, but is there a better option?